Transporting Rifles on Public Transport/Bicycles

Donny5

Hello,
I would like to ask the esteemed members of this forum about the legality, practicality and sensibility on transporting legally held rifles (in non-descript rifle bags) on public transport, on foot and cycling.

It is only a hypothetical, but I am wondering if the transport of rifles (or firearms in general) is limited to those with private transport.

All comments welcome,
Thank you.

It wasn't me!

As far as I know, buses and taxis are out, while rail travel is governed by the bye-laws of the operating agent. I could be wrong, but there you go. Bicycles I couldn't say, but I'd suspect is okay as long as you're reasonably smart about it and don't wear a rifle on a sling across your back. Regardless of legality, cycling through town like that will get the backs of the local guards up.

kowloon

I've carried a shotgun on my motorcycle more than once. Wouldn't stop to pay any bills on the way though .


Edit: Not like in Terminator 2, in its bag.

Donny5

Yeah, that's what I guessed. I have been wondering about this for a few days. Thanks for your reply.

Donny5

kowloon wrote: »

I've carried a shotgun on my motorcycle more than once. Wouldn't stop to pay any bills on the way though .


Edit: Not like in Terminator 2, in its bag.

Did you have it in a rifle bag, because most rifle bags seem obvious. I wonder if this is a problem?

IRLConor

It's banned on CIE road vehicles (by S.I. No. 394/1996 — Córas Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1996) and on the LUAS (by S.I. No. 100/2004 — Light Railway (Regulation of Travel and Use) Bye-Laws 2004).

It's banned if it's loaded on CIE trains (by S.I. No. 109/1984 — Coras Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1984) but you seem to be OK if it's not loaded. Sensible enough IMO.

As for taxis, I'm not sure. I can't find any law against it, I guess it would be down to the driver.

IRLConor

Donny5 wrote: »

Did you have it in a rifle bag, because most rifle bags seem obvious. I wonder if this is a problem?

There was a guy who used to shoot in DURC who brought his in in a bag for a hockey stick. It looked fairly innocuous.

clivej

I have seen people with rifles on slings across their backs scopes and all (could be going from field to field), not in a gun bag, walking along main roads, ie public highways, here in Kilkenny.
I can't see why this would be illegal. So if that is OK and legal whats the difference to carrying a rifle the same way in any high street? :eek:

It wasn't me!

If he's walking between fields, grand, but you'd be hard-pushed to justify so openly carrying it through a town, and it would probably look pretty bad anyway, ostentatious and aggressive, so a guard would almost certainly give you some hassle, and you could have serious problems if he deemed you to have violated the terms of your FAC by so openly flaunting it in such a public place, and probably worrying people. Discretion is the word of the day.

Sparks

I think taxis are out as they're under a public licence.

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

I have seen people with rifles on slings across their backs scopes and all (could be going from field to field), not in a gun bag, walking along main roads, ie public highways, here in Kilkenny.

Well, if it was the ring road then you'd be virtually out in the countryside. Still wouldn't do it myself though.
Now if you were walking down the butter slip with one over your shoulder, I wouldn't expect your feet to touch the ground

kowloon

Donny5 wrote: »

Did you have it in a rifle bag, because most rifle bags seem obvious. I wonder if this is a problem?

Long squared off bag, could be a fishing rod or a pool cue as far as anyone would know.

thehair

i live in mayo i walk around with my rifle in hand:eek: on the backroads
all the local know me and the garda dont mine i have been stooper
and asked buy the local garda is that rifle got ammo in it i say no
and show them the mag with it in hand ready to put in the rifle
they ask what are you going to shoot i say crow:)that find work away:D
steve

jwshooter

thehair wrote: »

i live in mayo i walk around with my rifle in hand:eek: on the backroads
all the local know me and the garda dont mine i have been stooper
and asked buy the local garda is that rifle got ammo in it i say no
and show them the mag with it in hand ready to put in the rifle
they ask what are you going to shoot i say crow:)that find work away:D
steve

your car,jeep etc is regarded as a public place once on a road ,so if you carry a firearm loaded or in public view you might be
in for a few questions if stopped by the wrong garda

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

I think taxis are out as they're under a public licence.

That's my suspicion too, but I can't find any law to back it up.

Sparks

I knew this was all sounding familiar: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55435005
It's the Road Traffic (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations, 1963 (SI 191/1963).

Sparks

Damn glad someone finally found what the story was with the train though, that was really bugging me.

Hezz700

A mate of mine regularly rides his Dragstar the 20 miiles between his house and mine with his 12bore semi on his back it a gun slip and he's never been stopped, not even while passing through town.

Sparks

Yeah, but that's kindof in there with "I know so-and-so who smoked 20 packs a day for fifty years and never got cancer" Hezz - in that you still wouldn't recommend smoking to someone.

Donny5

That's all pretty interesting, thanks for all the research and replies. So:
Banned on CIE road vehicles, the Luas and CIE trains(loaded).
Allowable on CIE trains(unloaded) and on a bicycle/motorbike.
In taxis, it's a grey area?

Sparks

On taxis, I don't think it's permitted, see here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55435005

Donny5

Ah, right you are. I'm not sure taxi drivers would be delighted with you, anyway. Thanks, sparks.

Dr_Teeth

IRLConor wrote: »

It's banned on CIE road vehicles (by S.I. No. 394/1996 — Córas Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1996) and on the LUAS (by S.I. No. 100/2004 — Light Railway (Regulation of Travel and Use) Bye-Laws 2004).

It's banned if it's loaded on CIE trains (by S.I. No. 109/1984 — Coras Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1984) but you seem to be OK if it's not loaded. Sensible enough IMO.

As for taxis, I'm not sure. I can't find any law against it, I guess it would be down to the driver.

Hang on, all these laws are about Weapons. Only the Guards, the Army, and criminals have weapons. None of us do.

IRLConor

Dr_Teeth wrote: »

Hang on, all these laws are about Weapons. Only the Guards, the Army, and criminals have weapons. None of us do.

While true, I wouldn't want to be the person that has to rely on a judge agreeing with us on that point.

Donny5

Dr_Teeth wrote: »

Hang on, all these laws are about Weapons. Only the Guards, the Army, and criminals have weapons. None of us do.

I'd pay to see that conversation with the bus conductor...

Sparks

I'm with you Teeth, but the courts aren't

meathstevie

"
Damage to public service vehicles.

17. A person shall not wilfully or maliciously commit any damage to a public service vehicle.

Carriage of dangerous substances.
18. (1) Subject to sub-article (2) of this article, a person shall not cause or permit any highly inflammable, dangerous or offensive article to be carried in a public service vehicle.

(2) Sub-article (1) of this article shall not operate so as to prohibit the carriage in a public service vehicle of—

(a) fuel and lubricant necessary for the vehicle,

(b) any substance which is carried in containers so designed and constructed or which is so packed that in the event of an accident it is unlikely to cause damage or injury to the vehicle or to persons carried therein, or

(c) a firearm carried by a member of the Defence Forces or of the Garda Síochána.

PART III. LICENSING OF PUBLIC SERVICE VEHICLES "


It doesn't realy give a definition of what's an offensive article in relation to PSV vehicles but I can imagine that a firearm to the "unknowledgeable" might easily be interpreted as an offensive article. You're welcome with your sporting equipment in my taxi anytime though. Personally I'd even argue the point that given the nature of the licencing system for firearms you having met the standard should remove all doubt for me whether I should look upon your firearm as an offensive article. Having said that, a nice little carrierbag or case will definitely help:D

thehair

jwshooter wrote: »

your car,jeep etc is regarded as a public place once on a road ,so if you carry a firearm loaded or in public view you might be
in for a few questions if stopped by the wrong garda

i never carry it loaded when i am out walking i have a 5 mag in my pocket
and it is alawy pointed down at the ground i only load it when it is
safe to do so IE no kids around noting in line of fire and shoot under
50yards into a field that i have ask farmers and they say work away
once ther is no animals in any of the fields:D the garda only stopped
me once they all know me well and know i am very safe to shoot

IRLConor

Donny5 wrote: »

Ah, right you are. I'm not sure taxi drivers would be delighted with you, anyway. Thanks, sparks.

Loads of taxi drivers I've talked to about shooting have pitched in with something like "I used to go hunting" or "a mate of mine is big into shooting". I haven't met one yet that's gone down the road of "guns? aren't they terrible dangerous yokes?".

I know it's not a representative sample, but I reckon out of a rank of taxis it would be no bother to find a driver willing to take me with a rifle in a bag/case.

Sparks

meathstevie wrote: »

It doesn't realy give a definition of what's an offensive article in relation to PSV vehicles but I can imagine that a firearm to the "unknowledgeable" might easily be interpreted as an offensive article.

Especially when firearms carried by Gardai or Army people are given an exemption (you don't exempt a thing if it wasn't included in the first place).

thehair

IRLConor wrote: »

Loads of taxi drivers I've talked to about shooting have pitched in with something like "I used to go hunting" or "a mate of mine is big into shooting". I haven't met one yet that's gone down the road of "guns? aren't they terrible dangerous yokes?".

I know it's not a representative sample, but I reckon out of a rank of taxis it would be no bother to find a driver willing to take me with a rifle in a bag/case.

hi connor i used to live in dublin:eek: mr taxi man i have a rifle in my rifle slip
i would like you to bring me to coolock please.:) his ans hold no i am going to ring the E-R-U sir beford we go:eek::D

meathstevie

As I said before lads, no bother in my taxi. I have had my shotgun in someone else's taxi coming from the airport once as well ( broken down in a carrier case ). Your man was asking whether it was fishing equipment and I told him straightforward : "No, a broken down shotgun". He had no problem with it just asked to put it in the boot so the case was out of sight.

thehair

hi meathsteve i am just having a laught steve:Dlol your spot on taxi men
are more worried about the price of diesel :eek:not any kind of firearm:D

rrpc

thehair wrote: »

hi meathsteve i am just having a laught steve:Dlol your spot on taxi men
are more worried about the price of diesel :eek:not any kind of firearm:D

If I was a taxi driver, I'd be worried about a firearm behind me in the car. I'd also be worried about knives, baseball bats, syringes and anything else that could be used as a weapon.

Sparks

Aye - the thing is that meathstevie's attitude is dead handy for any of us who'd need his services, but unless he has have "meathsteveie" painted on the side of his taxi, it's hard to know what the taxidriver you're dealing with thinks on the matter, so it's best to know the ground rules.

meathstevie

rrpc wrote: »

If I was a taxi driver, I'd be worried about a firearm behind me in the car. I'd also be worried about knives, baseball bats, syringes and anything else that could be used as a weapon.

You're spot on rrpc except the fact that the least of my worries would be let's say a lad in Raheny who called a taxi to bring him and his over and under to Courtlough. Knives and syringes and the likes are a far greater concern.

meathstevie

On a very realistic level now. If you ever found yourself needing a taxi while travelling with your firearm ( let's say for argument's sake Sparks and a few of his mates going to the airport catching a flight to an international competion ) just ring your local company and ask. I think you'll be surprised with the amount of drivers who have no problem transporting licenced firearms and their owners.

bitemybanger

I reckon it would be harder to find a taxi company who wont transport you and your licenced firearms than it would to find on who will, Like Meathstevie said its the likes of knives, syringes and illigal firearms that you would have to worry about, the ones you dont see and the ones that you arnt told about.

thehair

bitemybanger wrote: »

I reckon it would be harder to find a taxi company who wont transport you and your licenced firearms than it would to find on who will, Like Meathstevie said its the likes of knives, syringes and illigal firearms that you would have to worry about, the ones you dont see and the ones that you arnt told about.

spot on +1steve