plumber charges...yikes!

abbey2000

Please move its its more of a consumer issue, not sure where to put.

hi all, I moved to my new house in feb 08. in late april, there was a problem with the 2 upstairs toilets, they seemed to be partially blocked. I spoke with the site plumber who was doing other jobs for me in the house, and he suggested that it looked like the drains outside, and to take it up with the contractor.

I asked the contractor to take a look, he did, but said the drains were fine, and that he would talk to the plumber and sort it out. He suspected some sort
of blockage in the pipes.

While I was away one weekend, the plumber came and fixed the problem. Now, 6 weeks later I have just received a bill for 555 euro. The bill states that the blockage was caused by my tiler flusing bits of broken tiles down the loo!

Is it correct that the plumber carried out the work to correct the problem without contacting me first? Especially given the charge? I can only assume it was quite extensive work. If I had known he was going to charge so much, I would def have gotten quotes elsewhere. I feel like Im stuck now as I have no evidence that the tiler did cause the problem, as I did not even see what happened.

Should he not have called and said its gonna cost you 555 to fix this? I must say I think its a excessive price. Does anyone know where I can go from here?

Andrea B.

Is it correct that the plumber carried out the work to correct the problem without contacting me first?

No. Find out who authorised him. How did he gain access?

abbey2000

i left the key for him to get in to take a look. i thought at this stage that it was just something that was in the pipes that the contractor would take care of. i did not know at this stage that the costs were falling to me.

the GALL

I'd be weary of handing over any money to the plumber
the contractor checked the sewage system and he said that it was clear the the plumber said it was partially blocked from the tiler, without seen a photo of the way the pipes are set up it would be hard to tell what work if any was carried out and to clear a blockage from the tiler he would have use sewer rods. €555 for an hours work is a bit steep put up some photo's of the pipes from internal to external and you'll get better replys on what if any waork was done

abbey2000

i think its a bit suss to that the plumber did the job, and i wasnt even there to see it. i have no idea what he did, how he did it, or how long it took. externally i cant see anything different at all. theres no pipes visible inside, they were boxed in. im just not sure where to go next, there is no way i want to hand over 555 for this.

the GALL

in the toilet you have a u-bend I take it that the blockage wasn't there or you'd have seen it. This leads to the outside of the house then down the wall to an a-j (inspection chamber) the contractor checked this and it was clear leading in and out. The pipes upstairs are boxed in has this been taken off to get at the pipes inside? How long is this boxed in section and does it lead directally to the downpipe outside or does it have to travel left or right till it gets to the downpipe?

stephenmarr

i dont reckon it was broken tiles would say it was more the grout being flushed down the pan tiles wouldnt flush easy.
very steep price get a full breakdown of what he did and how long he was there for.

you should have asked me i would have done it for €300 bargin

abbey2000

the contractor just checked the drains outside, he didnt do much inside, just flushed the loo and watched to see what happened. he lifted and checked under the manhole things outside to see if they were blocked and they werent.

the pipe from the loo is boxed in and goes through the bath to get outside, it was not taken off as its tiled over, so i'd know. it travels to the left to get outside, as i said it goes through the bath then out. its the part between the loo and the bath thats boxed in.

i could see no blockage from inside, just know that when u flushed the loo, everything would go down, but really, really, really slowly. the loo would fill up with water first, then it eventually drained and went out. it didnt seem to be a complete blockage as it still emptied.

i dont know if its relevant or not, but the plumber that did this job is the plumber contracted by the contractor, he did the plumbing job for the entire estate. im just wondering if theyre in cahoots?

the GALL

I was thinking it was the grout but the contractor(or his labourer) checked the pipes and said they were clear. Then I was thinkin about the boxed in section if it was running left or right to the bowl and was the correct fall put on it ... hey OP sorry for talkin over you:)

311

The blockage you are talking about easily happens when tilers throw the tile dividers down the toilet along with cement.
What can be done is a high pressure washing from a crowd like dino rod. If the plumber charged you for calling out a third party ,then thats your problem. Otherwise he's getting stuck in for no apparent reason.

abbey2000

the plumber is the site plumber and was requested to look at it by the contractor, at this stage of the game no one knows why its blocked.

once they discovered that the issue was due to the tiler, then should he not contact me before proceeding with the work? and also advise me of the costs involved? i gave no ok for the plumber to go ahead with this work, i would have gotten quotes from elsewhere for the job if i knew his price in advance

the GALL

311 wrote: »

The blockage you are talking about easily happens when tilers throw the tile dividers down the toilet along with cement.
What can be done is a high pressure washing from a crowd like dino rod. If the plumber charged you for calling out a third party ,then thats your problem. Otherwise he's getting stuck in for no apparent reason.

that's true about but the spacers but after two months of use it should have completly blocked. OP at what stage after the tiler had finished did you notice that things weren't moveing

abbey2000

its hard to say, i was trying to remember but i just cant. i dont rem there being an issue after he left, it just seemed to happen. but as i say, i just cant remember when it kicked off.

im going to ask plumber for full detailed receipt, and a report of the work he carried out, and im also going to ask him why he proceeded to do the work without informing me in advance. see on the consumer website that service providers are not supposed to do that.

the GALL

who contracted the tiler for the work they did and are you still in contact with him/her?...and more to the npoint is the problem fixed?

Vegeta

abbey2000 wrote: »

its hard to say, i was trying to remember but i just cant. i dont rem there being an issue after he left, it just seemed to happen. but as i say, i just cant remember when it kicked off.

im going to ask plumber for full detailed receipt, and a report of the work he carried out, and im also going to ask him why he proceeded to do the work without informing me in advance. see on the consumer website that service providers are not supposed to do that.

I don't mean to come across as an ass hole or anything but I wouldn't blame the plumber for carrying out the work.

The contractor could have easily asked him to unblock it if he could, he probably just did what was asked of him.

You asked the plumber and then the contractor, maybe that was enough for them to believe you wanted the work carried out asap.

The price is mental though, ask for a detailed breakdown. Be very polite and explain how you got a shock at the size of the bill and were wondering could the plumber explain why its so high for something as seemingly straight forward as a blocked toilet

GreeBo

I wouldnt pay for that, no bloody way!
Ask for a breakdown but Id make it clear that you never authorised the work to go ahead. Contact the consumer authority to get their opinion, but make sure you have all your facts/dates/agreements to hand.

gsxr1

very steep indeed but my company had a blockage on one of our show houses.

Had to get a camera in and then it had to be jetted.

Cost 1600 euro

all because the ground workers did not put a plastic bag over the sewage pipes when filling the foundation with 804.

A hand full of stones caused mayhem.

If all he had to do is rod the pipe he should be charging 200 .

bettedavis

i work for a building comp and this happens all the time, people call us back for a variety of reasons that may or not be our fault. if it is our fault we fix it, but if it turns out to be your tilers fault (which has happened numerous times) we fix it but tell you that it was your tilers fault and if it happens a gain you will be charged. i assume this site plumber is actually a subcontractor and he is the one charging you, not the builder. i would go to the developer and tell them that the subbie has charged you. they may have a word. more than likely, the subbie will charge the developer too for the call out. the developer will not want bad feeling from a new buyer given the way sales a re at the minute he can't afford the bad mouthing you may do to prospective buyers. it's not worth it. don't pay the bill, the subbie is only chancing his arm.

abbey2000

thanks vegeta, i will do that. have already been on to the consumer site and spoken to them. they advise write and get a report of exactly what was done. i will do that, will keep it cool as you say, and see what response i get. i suspect that he is trying to get one over on me as im a single woman and shouldnt know any better.

davidoco

abbey2000 wrote: »

, i would have gotten quotes from elsewhere for the job if i knew his price in advance

Or even a set of rods for €25 down in Woodies (and some gloves).

abbey2000

update ......letter was sent by registered post two weeks agot today requesting full report of work done and explanation as to why work was done without my permission....not a peep from plumber since.

have spoken to friends and they think that i wont hear from him at all. also found out that the same situation with toilets happened to another house in my estate that he fixed to... apparently he found a bottle down the pipe...and he did NOT charge the contractor to fix it!

he seems to have just completely tried it on with me, im still fuming over it.

Andrea B.

he seems to have just completely tried it on with me, im still fuming over it.

Extras and follow on customer work is where some trade contractors make their money after going in tight with a price to get original job.

As an example; that's the reason you may sometimes see only 2 sockets in some sold-off-plans living rooms.
Sparks went tight to get contract from builder and to also allow for €100 per extra socket point after contracts had been signed, but still during first-fix stage.
In the rush to buy, buyers would not have picked up on shortfall in electrical points.

Minder

From a legal point of view you are not obliged to pay for services as charged if you have had no opportunity to agree prices first. Instead you would apply Quantum meruit, ie payment at a reasonable rate for the service provided.

Even a full days work and all new materials wouldn't come to 555 euros.

2 stroke

Having had some experience of unblocking pipes I'd like to point out that the unblocker usualy dosn't know the cause of blockage until said blockage is cleared.
Whats he supposed to do then, put everything back in the pipes, clean up his mess, go home, shower, do up a writen quote, wait for op to ok quote, or maybe get more plumbers to investigate blockage/reblock pipe, clean up their mess, go home, shower, do up a writen quotes?
€555 seems expensive but there has to be a way of accessing that pipe under the bath without removing the tiles and it sounds like your plumber did a professional job restoring your bathroom.

The bill states that the blockage was caused by my tiler flusing bits of broken tiles down the loo

Copy the bill then pass the original to the tiler. He is the one that should be paying this if he did flush tiling waste.

abbey2000

ok i do see the point of him now knowing what was wrong until he went in there, but the charge is still the main issue here.

I wrote to the plumber...asked what he did, and for a price breakdown. That was 8 weeks ago now and was sent by registed post, and I have not heard a peep out of him.

He was well and truly chancing his arm. I come from a small town, and he is a local guy... bad word of mouth from me if ever asked about plumbers in my area.

abbey2000

.... so after me thinking we were all done with this, the said plumber called to my house last thursday evening, 8 weeks after i sent him the letter....

Said he was going through some stuff, and just came across it now. I find it very strange that his office received a letter like I sent and no one gave it to him?

He said that he had "two lads at it all day", they tried to use the rods, but it wouldnt work, and that they had to take the pipes off at the back to clear the blockage. He also restated that the tiler flushed tiles down the loo, and that there were probably still bits of tiles in the cistern, as they did not take them out. I had a look after he went, and could see one or two little bits in the corner, and thats all. He was insinuating that I would find a whole pile of them in there.

I said very litte in response, I think i said first "a day to unblock a toilet?", he said again that he had two lads at it all day, and I could ask the contractor if i liked, that he knew they were at it all day. I then said "550 euro?". He said he had the two lads at it all day, that he wasnt trying to rip anyone off.

I just looked at him and said ok, can you put that in writing, he said he would, then i shut the door. I wasnt going to get into in with him, and he had completely caught me off guard arriving at the door like that.

I have a question: worst case scenario, how long would it take to unblock a toilet? I can see the plastic pipes at the back of the house and to me, it doesnt look like it would be that hard to get them off? Im pretty sure i could do it myself from looking at it.

And where do i go from here now? that was last thurs, and no written response from him yet. do i just wait and see what arrives? Any comments appreciated.

311

I'm haven't got time to go back through the thread ,but who hired the tiler ?
Was the tiling done by the builder or did you organise it?

abbey2000

i hired the tiler, he was employed by me.

abbey2000

the builder did not do any tiling in the house

abbey2000

here are the pics of the pipes at the back of the house that took 2 guys all day to take off, clear and put back on....


DSCN0796.jpg

DSCN0797.jpg

gsxr1

abbey. I dont want to think im taking sides here. But I deal with 4" waven alot when doing ground work. It is really difficult to take apart . And get back together. I think it be done a little quicker than a day though. If you are using well motivated lads that is.

De_man

i reckon they're having a laugh - it can be slow but a full days work!!!

saying that unfortunately, imho you hired the tiler and you'll have to come to some arrangement with the plumber - afterall the job is completed.

Realistically, if you can get out of this for 300 go for it and put it down
to experience

2 stroke

I can see the plastic pipes at the back of the house and to me, it doesnt look like it would be that hard to get them off? Im pretty sure i could do it myself from looking at it.

Try getting those pipes off with a fully loaded toilet at the other side.
Just pass the plumbers bill, stating that there was tileing waste in the pipes, on to the tiler.

gsxr1

2 stroke wrote: »

Try getting those pipes off with a fully loaded toilet at the other side.
Just pass the plumbers bill, stating that there was tileing waste in the pipes, on to the tiler.

thats a very good point. nasty work . Imagine the back up.

abbey2000

I do intend to pass the bill to the tiler, but i dont want him to think that im taking the absolute p*** with a bill for 550. i just think that its an incredible amount. and i do think that the plumbers "two lads" are p*** takers.

i have seen them when they were doing work for my neighbour. when they come out of the house and job is done, they sit in the car and smoke fags for ages! i was watching them one day and they were still in the car half an hour later when i left my house, so i dont think they are helping the cause.

311

abbey2000 wrote: »

i have seen them when they were doing work for my neighbour. when they come out of the house and job is done, they sit in the car and smoke fags for ages! i was watching them one day and they were still in the car half an hour later when i left my house, so i dont think they are helping the cause.

If you're really not happy with things ,maybe take the route of telling the plumber you will have to wait for the tiler to sort things out.

After all ,you've waited this long for a reply from him. I wouldn't say hes too pushed about getting payed ,he probably just happened to be in the area when he knocked.

abbey2000

thanks for the replies all. As you say, the plumber waited 2 mths before calling. So I'll wait to get the full report of exactly what was done by him, and then will pass on to the tiler and request that he pay.

I just dont have 550 euro to pay for this.

abbey2000

never paid for this and never heard from plumber again....

slavetothegrind

Just read all thru this, happy days.

That was a rediculous charge if blockage was between toilet and AJ nearest.
Even if he just cut off all that wavin and fitted new he couldn't have arrived at that!

Glad it worked out for you.