Will either of the Hardy boys ever become a world champion?

Rjd2

One of the main criticisms whether you agree or not is that the company is over relevant on certain main eventers for all PPVS. On Raw we have Orton, Cena and HHH, and SD we have Edge, Batista and Taker who seem to be the only ones in the title picture all the time. Two of the names along with the likes of MVP and Kennedy that people suggest being elevated to the main event are the Hardy Boyz. Both seem to have pluses and negatives. Their overness is not in question judging by crowd reactions; both are considered good workers and are also relatively young. There are doubters out their who question Jeff’s reliability and Matt’s apparent lack of charisma compared to his brother and if either could carry a show like Cena or Edge. However I am curious to see fellow posters could envisage the day when either or even both will be champions?

yes

Handsome Bob

Jeff Hardy deserves a title run. Whether he can carry the company I don't know. But in the short term he is exactly what the company needs.

Matt Hardy is my preferred Hardy Boy. There is nothing more I would love to see in wrestling than Matt becoming World Heavyweight Champion. I think Matt tells a better story than Jeff in the ring and on the mic. But he has his detractors backstage who lazily dismiss him as not having the ability to become a main event draw. I had faith that Matt could hold his own when the Hardy's broke up and that happened, he proved everyone wrong. I have faith he can move to the next level if given a chance and an injury free run.

I always imagine that they'll do the benoit/eddie thing. Both Hardyz win their world belt at the same mania and meet up at the end.


Matt is my favourite of the two, and I do think he lacks a certain charisma (as he proved when he returned after the Edge/Lita thing) but the thing about Matt is he is a real person.

He's not a caricature of a sleazeball. He's not dead. Hes not a cowboy. He just portrays a regular every day hard working guy, and i think that people could get into that.

Handsome Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

I always imagine that they'll do the benoit/eddie thing. Both Hardyz win their world belt at the same mania and meet up at the end.


Matt is my favourite of the two, and I do think he lacks a certain charisma (as he proved when he returned after the Edge/Lita thing) but the thing about Matt is he is a real person.

He's not a caricature of a sleazeball. He's not dead. Hes not a cowboy. He just portrays a regular every day hard working guy, and i think that people could get into that.

Wholeheartedly agree.

I don't even think he has poor charisma though. He can entertain me on the microphone and can put a good match on with a real story told. I don't think just because he doesn't start raving when he makeshis entrance that he should be dismissed as uncharismatic.

Reganio 2

Both of them are class acts and both deserve to hold the main title on at least one of the shows (Not counting ECW as that has them same credibility of the I.C. probably less) I have been a massive Hardyz mark since they were together and then when they went apart. Jeff is my favourite wrestler ever to be in the WWE closly followed by Matt. I think they have both been underestimated in their solo careers.

But in fairness Jeff dosn't deserve to hold the/a title at this time as he needs to sort himself out. I would hate him to get the push then go back on the drugs. Matt is awesome and I think given the chance of a top feud against Edge without going back to Lita and all that and just let them get on with it, I think they could have a great feud.

Handsome Bob

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Both of them are class acts and both deserve to hold the main title on at least one of the shows (Not counting ECW as that has them same credibility of the I.C. probably less) I have been a massive Hardyz mark since they were together and then when they went apart. Jeff is my favourite wrestler ever to be in the WWE closly followed by Matt. I think they have both been underestimated in their solo careers.

But in fairness Jeff dosn't deserve to hold the/a title at this time as he needs to sort himself out. I would hate him to get the push then go back on the drugs. Matt is awesome and I think given the chance of a top feud against Edge without going back to Lita and all that and just let them get on with it, I think they could have a great feud.

That is my worry with Jeff. I don't like how they have basically thrown him right back into the WWE Championship picture, he hasn't done any hard time whatsoever. He's on his last leg now and I honestly can't be confident that he won't blow it.

DRakE

Jeff will probably get a run for a month somewhere down the line if he keeps his nose clean.

Bubs101

Hopefully not. I never ever liked the Hardy boys, I was the big Edge and Christian mark in my primary class. Matt is a charisma black hole with a very unexciting move set compared to his brother. He's been at roughly the same position the whole of his career and he was made to look better than he was in the past year because MVP is so entertaining outside the ring and on the mic. It was easy to play his foil for a year or so. One of the only reasons he's at where he is now is because alot of the fans still feel sorry for him, that's no reason to become a champion.

Jeff on the other hand, has in all fairness grown from the spot monkey he used to be but for me, has lost all his momentum. I think there was a decentish case for him to get a run with the belt before Mania based on his momentum but Jeff ****ed it up big style, and in a way, that is the one reason I could never give the belt to Jeff. Someone with his history could never be given the belt when one strike finishes him and sends him back to TNA. He's too much of a risk. Also, if the company didn't see fit to give him the title when he was the hottest thing they have had in a while and only had 1 strike, they must have had some of the same reservations that I have. Also, he is SHOCKING on the mic.

Also if you look at those ahead of Jeff, just on Raw I would put HBK, HHH, Orton, Kennedy. Cena, JBL, Umaga (now that Estrada is free again) and Jericho. Ahead of Matt on ECW and Smackdown are Edge, Batista, Morrison, CM Punk,Kane ,Rey, the Big Show and in the case that all of those were taken out and Smackdown had to find a champ, I'd bet anything they'd get someone from Raw to fill in than even consider giving the belt to Matt. He wouldn't even be considered if it weren't for Edge. On the other hand, they are both extremely popular as their DVD sales show

Handsome Bob

Bubs101 wrote: »

Hopefully not. I never ever liked the Hardy boys, I was the big Edge and Christian mark in my primary class. Matt is a charisma black hole with a very unexciting move set compared to his brother. He's been at roughly the same position the whole of his career and he was made to look better than he was in the past year because MVP is so entertaining outside the ring and on the mic. It was easy to play his foil for a year or so. One of the only reasons he's at where he is now is because alot of the fans still feel sorry for him, that's no reason to become a champion.

First of all, you could hear crickets when MVP was on the mic before his program with Matt Hardy. Matt Hardy finally got the crowd interacting with MVP in their feud. I'm a fan of MVP but the fans couldn't have cared less about him until he hooked up with Matt.

You say he's been at the same position in his whole career while ignoring his numerous injuries and his sacking. The guy is the US Champ rignt now and if gets an injury free run he will be main eventing some time down the road.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Jeff on the other hand, has in all fairness grown from the spot monkey he used to be but for me, has lost all his momentum. I think there was a decentish case for him to get a run with the belt before Mania based on his momentum but Jeff ****ed it up big style, and in a way, that is the one reason I could never give the belt to Jeff. Someone with his history could never be given the belt when one strike finishes him and sends him back to TNA. He's too much of a risk. Also, if the company didn't see fit to give him the title when he was the hottest thing they have had in a while and only had 1 strike, they must have had some of the same reservations that I have. Also, he is SHOCKING on the mic..

Won't argue here. I am not happy with how Jeff has walked straight back into the Main Event scene without paying his dues and he is one **** up away from blowing the best thing he's ever had in his career.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Also if you look at those ahead of Jeff, just on Raw I would put HBK, HHH, Orton, Kennedy. Cena, JBL, Umaga (now that Estrada is free again) and Jericho. Ahead of Matt on ECW and Smackdown are Edge, Batista, Morrison, CM Punk,Kane ,Rey, the Big Show and in the case that all of those were taken out and Smackdown had to find a champ, I'd bet anything they'd get someone from Raw to fill in than even consider giving the belt to Matt. He wouldn't even be considered if it weren't for Edge. On the other hand, they are both extremely popular as their DVD sales show

You acknowledge that both of them have a big fan base yet you claim the only chance Matt has of getting to the ME is feuding with Edge? Ok...

Maybe it's just me but I can see Maint Event feuds on SD for Matt Hardy with Randy Orton, with Chis Jericho, with Batista, with Edge and with Ken Kennedy. Where is your creativity man?

Bubs101

Quite simply, Matt isn't good enough in the ring or on the mic (you can still here crickets when he talks) to be a champion and the only thing going for him is his popularity, but for one, Jeff is still way more popular, and secondly, Rey was more popular as well and his reign was a disaster. Like I said, I have never ever liked the Hardyz so I'm clearly bias against them, but I could never ever see Matt going over the likes of Batista, Jericho and Orton in a title feud. I could see him losing if they were desperate but never winning

Handsome Bob

Bubs101 wrote: »

Quite simply, Matt isn't good enough in the ring or on the mic (you can still here crickets when he talks) to be a champion and the only thing going for him is his popularity, but for one, Jeff is still way more popular, and secondly, Rey was more popular as well and his reign was a disaster. Like I said, I have never ever liked the Hardyz so I'm clearly bias against them, but I could never ever see Matt going over the likes of Batista, Jericho and Orton in a title feud. I could see him losing if they were desperate but never winning

Maybe it's just me but I've never felt awkward for Matt Hardy when he's on the mic (except or that 'I will not die' crap). And again maybe it's just me but i'm always entertained by the matches he puts on with his highlights being against the likes of Edge, Randy Orton and Gregory Helms.

Anyone can go over anyone in wrestling if it is a good story creatively. For example have Batista as the heel Champion feeding of his supposed narcissistic personality. Have him continually dismiss Matt Hardy's challenge and build Hardy up as the huge underdog. Give Batista the first few wins (due to Hardy continually maneuvering himself back into the No.1 Contender spot he always comes back for more) and finally give Matt the big win at WM or something.

callaway92

Ya...A Batista vs Matt Hardy title match at Wrestlemania:rolleyes:

Handsome Bob

Your contribution to this thread is breathtaking........

rovert

Matt Hardy is a mid card role player and thats all.

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

First of all, you could hear crickets when MVP was on the mic before his program with Matt Hardy. Matt Hardy finally got the crowd interacting with MVP in their feud. I'm a fan of MVP but the fans couldn't have cared less about him until he hooked up with Matt.

That's utter horsesh*t if i ever read it. Crickets? Were you watching a dodgy download of it on your creative zen with one earphone in? MVP has some of the best heel heat next Edge on Smackdown! He was over as a heel against Kane, and very over against Benoit. I don't know what you were watching in 2006, m'man, but it wasn't SD!

You say he's been at the same position in his whole career while ignoring his numerous injuries and his sacking. The guy is the US Champ rignt now and if gets an injury free run he will be main eventing some time down the road.

I can't see that happening at all! Jeff has been injured, swapped promotions and been sacked, and he still did better than Matt in one year returning, than Matt has done in six years combined. A lot of that is down to Matt being a charisma black hole.

Won't argue here. I am not happy with how Jeff has walked straight back into the Main Event scene without paying his dues and he is one **** up away from blowing the best thing he's ever had in his career.

Erm, Jeff hasn't paid his dues? Please elaborate here. Considering he's worked his bollocks off since his return in mid 2006?

Maybe it's just me but I can see Maint Event feuds on SD for Matt Hardy with Randy Orton, with Chis Jericho, with Batista, with Edge and with Ken Kennedy. Where is your creativity man?

It's just you. But we already had this conversation in a previous thread.

Anyway i can see Jeff getting a short title run to transition it over, it worked for Edge didn't it?
VR!

rovert

validreasoning! wrote: »

Erm, Jeff hasn't paid his dues? Please elaborate here. Considering he's worked his bollocks off since his return in mid 2006?

The idea of dues is so stupid too and it is no way to run a profitable company. Bob Holly for World Champion! If dues count for anything :rolleyes:

kyp_durron

I liked Matt when he did the "Mattitude" Version 1 shit. He had more charisma then a gapping black maw back then, I know this because I am right.

Also rovert you are the best poster, keep reaching for that rainbow xxxx

rovert

kyp_durron wrote: »

I liked Matt when he did the "Mattitude" Version 1 shit. He had more charisma then a gapping black maw back then, I know this because I am right.

I didnt know Charisma was transient.

Reganio 2

kyp_durron wrote: »

I liked Matt when he did the "Mattitude" Version 1 shit. He had more charisma then a gapping black maw back then, I know this because I am right.

Also rovert you are the best poster, keep reaching for that rainbow xxxx

*BUUUZZZZZZZ*

Sorry that's my sarcasm detector going mad.

brick tamland

kyp_durron wrote: »

I liked Matt when he did the "Mattitude" Version 1 shit. He had more charisma then a gapping black maw back then, I know this because I am right.

I really enjoyed the Mattitude stuff too. pretty funny, especially the little notes that used to pop up on screen during his intro however i can never see him being given the strap ( maybe ECW). I think Jeff will be given a run sometime over the next 18 months or so, i think his crowd reaction will seal the deal. although if he does win I hope they dont make it like Reys run where he seemed to be getting buried most weeks

Handsome Bob

validreasoning! wrote: »

That's utter horsesh*t if i ever read it. Crickets? Were you watching a dodgy download of it on your creative zen with one earphone in? MVP has some of the best heel heat next Edge on Smackdown! He was over as a heel against Kane, and very over against Benoit. I don't know what you were watching in 2006, m'man, but it wasn't SD!



I can't see that happening at all! Jeff has been injured, swapped promotions and been sacked, and he still did better than Matt in one year returning, than Matt has done in six years combined. A lot of that is down to Matt being a charisma black hole.



Erm, Jeff hasn't paid his dues? Please elaborate here. Considering he's worked his bollocks off since his return in mid 2006?



It's just you. But we already had this conversation in a previous thread.

Anyway i can see Jeff getting a short title run to transition it over, it worked for Edge didn't it?
VR!

I was watching in 2006 and he couldn't generate the heat that Edge does. That is just a ridiculous statement. I'm a big fan of MVP too so I don't have blinkers on here, he did not generate the heat that he deserved.

I don't like the fact that Jeff was basically a shoe in for MITB and he blew it. He was getting a major push and he blew it. What's his punishment? A two month vacation and then thrown straight back into the Main Event. What a policy the WWE have......

And again, how many times do I have to tell you that Matt hardy's "pushes", if even one could call them that because they were so patheticly written, were constantly interrupted by injury. How is one meant to garner any real momentum if they are that unlucky with injuries? But we both know how to you injuries are the fault of the superstar, don't we? Look at Kennedy, every time he was injured or was suspended his momentum was killed. Only now when he is getting a clear run that he is garnering any momentum back.

And maybe the reason Jeff got over upon his return is because he had no stoppages, or in other words. no injuries. A nearly two year run without injury at that.

kyp_durron

rovert wrote: »

I didnt know Charisma was transient.

Then you don't understand charisma.

I don't mind either of the Hardyz getting the title, but first I demand they give Murdoc a run, for great justices.

rovert

kyp_durron wrote: »

Then you don't understand charisma.

Explain

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What's his punishment? A two month vacation

Proof please

LZ5by5 wrote: »

and then thrown straight back into the Main Event. What a policy the WWE have.......

Sorry but WWE are trying to make money here and have Jeff's best interests at heart doing it.

kyp_durron

rovert wrote: »

Explain

You didnt know Charisma was transient. You are ignorant of the universal laws of charisma. I suggest you do more reading on the subject and then get back to me.

kyp_durron

rovert wrote: »

Sorry but WWE are trying to make money here and have Jeff's best interests at heart doing it.

Proof please

Handsome Bob

rovert wrote: »

Proof please



Sorry but WWE are trying to make money here and have Jeff's best interests at heart doing it.

What is there to prove? He got suspended and was sent home without pay (which is disasterous for pro wrestlers in the WWE these days:rolleyes:). Not only was he sent home, but he got to heal any nagging injuries that he had, thus coming back fresh.....real hard time eh?

Yeah, real good money move by throwing the already stupid and complacent (taking drugs not wrestling-wise) Jeff Hardy straight back into the Main Event. It makes a lot of sense doesn't it......

rovert

kyp_durron wrote: »

You didnt know Charisma was transient. You are ignorant of the universal laws of charisma. I suggest you do more reading on the subject and then get back to me.

Citation please

kyp_durron

rovert wrote: »

Citation please

No. I have proven my point. I wash my hands of you.

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What is there to prove? He got suspended and was sent home without pay

Not much here in the way of proof. Most people get a paid vaction you know?

LZ5by5 wrote: »

(which is disasterous for pro wrestlers in the WWE these days:rolleyes:).

I dont get why you are rolling your eyes for?

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Not only was he sent home, but he got heal any nagging injuries that he had, thus coming back fresh...

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Yeah, real good money move by throwing the already stupid and complacent (taking drugs not wrestling-wise) Jeff Hardy straight back into the Main Event. It makes a lot of sense doesn't it......

You were probably moaning about WWE not pushing RVD a few years back.

Lets say if Jeff Hardy is completely broken down and/or a failed drug test is looming. They are leaving money on the table by not having him in main events as he is over. Jeff Hardy will be able to make enough money for a nest egg so he doesnt have to wrestling all ****ed up on the indys and TNA in the future. IF he has one last run in him, why not make money with him?

If he is a reformed character as of today what is the point of punishing him on screen hurting his marketability after he has already served his punishment? That isnt fair.

On the other hand

rovert

kyp_durron wrote: »

No. I have proven my point. I wash my hands of you.

With an academic term which doesnt exist?

Fozzy

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What is there to prove? He got suspended and was sent home without pay (which is disasterous for pro wrestlers in the WWE these days:rolleyes:). Not only was he sent home, but he got to heal any nagging injuries that he had, thus coming back fresh.....real hard time eh?

Yeah, real good money move by throwing the already stupid and complacent (taking drugs not wrestling-wise) Jeff Hardy straight back into the Main Event. It makes a lot of sense doesn't it......

I think they want to make their money off him while they can. If he ****s up he ****s up, better to have benefited from him while he was around

And he's served his punishment, why do you want to punish him more? Does that happen in other professions?

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I was watching in 2006 and he couldn't generate the heat that Edge does. That is just a ridiculous statement. I'm a big fan of MVP too so I don't have blinkers on here, he did not generate the heat that he deserved.

Yes it is a ridiculous statement to make, and you should shoot yourself in the f*cking head for doing so (because i sure as well didn't say that he generated the heat that Edge did. I just said he generated a lot more heat in that period of time than you gave him for as you basically dismissed an entire year of his career before his feud with Mattitude!

I don't like the fact that Jeff was basically a shoe in for MITB and he blew it. He was getting a major push and he blew it. What's his punishment? A two month vacation and then thrown straight back into the Main Event. What a policy the WWE have......

It's smart business, and if i recall correctly, businesses make money! And how do you know his two months off was a vacation? Were you there at the home of Jeff Hardy during his time off, of course you weren't!

And again, how many times do I have to tell you that Matt hardy's "pushes", if even one could call them that because they were so patheticly written,

Really? I thought the MF part was very well written, however if Matt couldn't propel himself from the mockery of cruiserweight champion (which did get him over initially, but he dropped the ball afterwards). A promotion will do all they can to help get you off the ground, but they won't fly for you! Matt chokes at every opportunity, that's his fault, not the company.

were constantly interrupted by injury. How is one meant to garner any real momentum if they are that unlucky with injuries? But we both know how to you injuries are the fault of the superstar, don't we? Look at Kennedy, every time he was injured or was suspended his momentum was killed. Only now when he is getting a clear run that he is garnering any momentum back.

Time for a new career then if he keeps getting injured? I don't think Kennedy's momentum was killed after his injury, he didn't have much to begin with to be honest, he was still only getting to midcard level, and he was placed back there the minute he came back from injury the first time. His second one (which happened about five months or so later), hurt him alright, and then to add insult to injury, he failed wellness and was suspended after that. So obviously he's gonna be de-pushed. Just like Jeff Hardy, how you can say he was thrown into main event slot after his second wellness is just grasping at straws. He's stuck with that lump, Umaga for christs sake!

And maybe the reason Jeff got over upon his return is because he had no stoppages, or in other words. no injuries. A nearly two year run without injury at that.

But Jeff did get over the minute he returned, the crowd went ape for it. The difference is Jeff can run with the ball, something Matt just can't do, and his track record speaks for itself. But you keep telling yourself that it's poor writing, a poor workman always blames his tools.

VR!

kyp_durron

rovert wrote: »

With an academic term which doesnt exists?

It does exists. I have proof.

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote: »

Were you there at the home of Jeff Hardy during his time off, of course you weren't!

Jeff wasn't there either if you remember

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote: »

Jeff wasn't there either if you remember

I don't remember, i wasn't there either
VR!

Fozzy

kyp_durron wrote: »

It does exists. I have proof.

Look, you're just trolling now, but there are a few papers from the last decade or so that say conclusively that charisma is not transient, believe it or not

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote: »

I don't remember, i wasn't there either
VR!

It burned down!

rovert

validreasoning! wrote: »

I don't remember, i wasn't there either
VR!

You were with Jeff and his mot getting tatoos.

rovert

Fozzy wrote: »

I think they want to make their money off him while they can. If he ****s up he ****s up, better to have benefited from him while he was around

And he's served his punishment, why do you want to punish him more? Does that happen in other professions?

Much like my point Fozzy, basically make hay while the sun shines.

Handsome Bob

Fozzy wrote: »

I think they want to make their money off him while they can. If he ****s up he ****s up, better to have benefited from him while he was around

And he's served his punishment, why do you want to punish him more? Does that happen in other professions?

It makes sense to invest time, space and money in someone who is a risk, someone who is on his last leg. For the short term, the WWE are doing the correct thing, making as much money as possible. In the long term, it's not a smart move to push him straight back into the main event. As I said it's a risk and a waster of resources.

Why do I want to see him do a few mid card feuds before he's allowed back into the main event? Because it's best for Jeff Hardy and the company in the long term, it sets an example and puts others on notice, it actually gives the wellness policy meaning by saying "if you **** up, you'll do your time outside and then inside the ring."

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote: »

It burned down!

Oh yeah, he came back and found it burned to the ground with smoked madra in it.

VR!

kyp_durron

Fozzy wrote: »

Look, you're just trolling now, but there are a few papers from the last decade or so that say conclusively that charisma is not transient, believe it or not

Citation please.

I am not trolling, you're hatin'.

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Why do I want to see him do a few mid card feuds before he's allowed back into the main event? Because it's best for Jeff Hardy and the company in the long term, it sets an example and puts others on notice, it actually gives the wellness policy meaning by saying "if you **** up, you'll do your time outside and then inside the ring."

Why punish him twice? He already served his time under the Wellness policy.

Vince135792003

Why punish the fans though? He's very over. People clearly want him to be positioned as a top guy and are entertained by him. So go with it.

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It makes sense to invest time, space and money in someone who is a risk, someone who is on his last leg. For the short term, the WWE are doing the correct thing, making as much money as possible. In the long term, it's not a smart move to push him straight back into the main event. As I said it's a risk and a waster of resources.

But they haven't put him straight back into the main event, if i recall correctly, he OPENED at the last PPV against Umaga. Are you even watching the product lately? Because from what i can see on RAW, the main event is gonna be SuperHunter vs MegaCena!

Why do I want to see him do a few mid card feuds before he's allowed back into the main event? Because it's best for Jeff Hardy and the company in the long term, it sets an example and puts others on notice, it actually gives the wellness policy meaning by saying "if you **** up, you'll do your time outside and then inside the ring."

As opposed to pumping all the TV time and main events into an injury prone Matt Hardy who has the colour, charisma and finesse of a Dublin City Council bin truck? Yeah! I'd want you booking my promotion!

VR!

rovert

kyp_durron wrote: »

Citation please.

I am not trolling, you're hatin'.

It is a combination of traits you dumb****.

rovert

validreasoning! wrote: »

As opposed to pumping all the TV time and main events into an injury prone Matt Hardy who has the colour, charisma and finesse of a Dublin City Council bin truck? Yeah! I'd want you booking my promotion!

Awesome

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Why punish the fans though? He's clearly very over. People clearly want him to be positioned as a top guy and are entertained by him. So go with it.

Wow, we agree on something?!
VR!

kyp_durron

rovert wrote: »

It is a trait you dumb****.

Why must you abuse me? I'm pretty sure it's against the charter.