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Judges are at it again with insulting sentences!
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09-06-2008 5:57pm#1
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Jesus christ !! I'm not suprised that the victims relative could be charged, and again it wouldn't suprise me if he got more then yer man sentenced. The justice system in this country is an absolute joke ! I don't know how any judge could have the nerve to charge somebody with "criminal damages" over a completely justified reaction IMO, if that was me I'd want to thrash the place myself, I guess he actually went for it !
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It says twice the speed limit, not the drink drive limit.
Still a lenient sentence though.
Vehicular manslaughter ftw.
still killed someone, whether he was a drunk idiot or an idiot going too fast. i'd be throwing all kinds of stuff at the wall if that was someone close to me. how do these folk get to be judges? some sort of raffle at the xmas party?
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Community service for killing someone while speeding is an outrage. That judge should be sacked.I've read the link from RTE and see absolutly no reference about drink driving.
Confused
What were they charged with OP?
Driving at twice the speed limit is just as bad imo. Read the article and you will see what they were charged with0 -
Mossy Monk wrote: »Driving at twice the speed limit is just as bad imo. Read the article and you will see what they were charged with
Agreed!
I did read the article and it's different to the OP's post, that's why I was asking. One shows speeding and the other shows drink driving.
But seems to be a typo so all cleared up now
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Join Date:Posts: 10096
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johnnyskeleton wrote: »Are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right? The reality is that there are hundreds of road deaths each year, and approx 80 dangerous driving causing death prosecutions. This is because accidents do happen and usually where there is no prosecution it is because the other driver(s) were not legally culpable. Those that are prosecuted are culpable on a range from the minor acts of dangerous driving to maniacal acts of dangerous driving, and the sentences range from suspended sentences up to 10 years imprisonment depending on the level of culpability and the circumstances of the offender. It might sound callous to you, but if the families of people killed on the roads were all entitled to see someone go to jail because of it, you would create massive injustice.
No it doesn't. It suggests that sending this particular person to jail for this particular offence would be contrary to justice and/or would serve no purpose other than to appease the media and give the family some retribution. It was not ok for him to do what he did, but despite the tragic death of the other person, what he did was less deserving of imprisonment than, for example, an assault causing harm..
Yeah and that's why I said above that I don't believe his punishment should be as severe as those handed out to re-offending criminals! You seem to be forgetting that a person died. Community service should be given out for people caught spray painting walls. Not breaking a speed limit, driving TWICE the speed and killing a person. What's this 'two wrongs don't make it right', thing all about??!!! How do you figure punishing a person for breaking the law is wrong?johnnyskeleton wrote: »Suggesting that the justice system needs to be sorted soon is kinda like saying "The hospitals better sort out this cure for cancer thing soon" - you are looking at it in a simple way and demanding simple solutions, but you are refusing to look at it from a realistic point of view. If you want to argue this line, you should:
1) say what you think is wrong with the system at the moment;
2) say why you believe it is wrong;
3) say what you think could remove this wrong;
4) say what improvement should replace it.
To simply say "I demand harsher sentences" in a random selection of cases (typically the ones selected by the media to cause most outrage by a deliberately misleading emphasis on the facts) without reference to the above, and using this to suggest that there is a systemic failure in the justice system that needs to be "sorted out" is a very lazy way to look at it. .
Lazy? Oh dear, was I supposed to be saving the world? Oppps boards.ie must have sidetracked me. I have to say having read some of your other posts, the level of hypocrisy in this particular case is unexpected. You mostly make good arguments, very well thought out statements. Yet here you're passing judgement on me (suggesting I'm lazy... wtf?) and making it more about ME than the actual case. Where do you get off doing that?johnnyskeleton wrote: »I think you have made the mistake common on after hours of thinking that scumbag means poor. It does not. A scumbag is a miscreant, anti-social or violent / repeat offender. The term has nothing to do with socio-economic status, although some prejudiced people use it to mean a poor person..
Again, assuming I've 'missed' something and suggesting that I am wrong in my opinion. So because it's not what you believe, I must be wrong?! I was responding there to a comment made by another poster who mentioned a difference between well to do taxpayers and scumbags. Why in the name of God are you suggesting that I am 'prejudiced'? I believe I've stated more than once that I sympathise with both sides of this tragic case.johnnyskeleton wrote: »What you seem to be suggesting is that because someone died as a result of this unintentional mistake he should be severely punished. If a surgeon makes an unintentional mistake which results in a death, should he also be severely punished? At the end of the day, retribution cannot always correspond with the harm suffered. The courts instead have to look at the offence committed and decide what is the appropriate way of marking that offence..
Exactly and given that the guy broke the law and killed a person, community service was not an appropriate sentence.... in my opinion.(my ''prejudiced'', ''mistaken'' and ''lazy'' point of view)johnnyskeleton wrote: »You know that's not true. Harsher sentences are not a deterrent. Greater detection rates however, is a very good deterrent. So what we really need to prevent road traffic accidents is more and better equipped gardai and better roads, and a continuation of what, it must be said, is an excellent awareness campaign by the RSA. However, this would cost a load of money, whereas blaming judges costs nothing. So when it comes to deciding what is to be done to prevent further road deaths, do you want to get off your ass and demand more public services and pay the consequential increases in taxes, or do you want to sit down and blame judges for all your woes - not based on the judicial system in general, but on one case only.
Again, I'm more than flattered that you believe that I alone am capable of saving the world. From what I can see, you're posting on boards.ie suggests that perhaps you should be taking your own advice rather than making personal assumptions based on an opinion piece.
It is ridiculous the amount of times Boards.ie posters resort to making personal comments to other posters who dared to have an opposing opinion. I was not one of the posters that suggested that he should be physically harmed for what he did or even locked up for a long time. I simply said that I believed that 120hours of community service seemed to be a very minor punishment given that he was driving twice the speed limit. I sympathised with him and his family as I did for the victim and her family. I did not suggest that anyone should be harmed or given a severe punishment. So please, explain to me, what exactly I said that warranted you insinuating that I am a lazy and prejudiced person?0 -
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Yeah and that's why I said above that I don't believe his punishment should be as severe as those handed out to re-offending criminals! You seem to be forgetting that a person died. Community service should be given out for people caught spray painting walls. Not breaking a speed limit, driving TWICE the speed and killing a person. What's this 'two wrongs don't make it right', thing all about??!!! How do you figure punishing a person for breaking the law is wrong?
You seem to be suggesting that because someone died in a dangerous driving incident that imprisonment must follow no matter what the circumstances were. But to what end? Taking a black and white view of it can prevent justice from being done.Lazy? Oh dear, was I supposed to be saving the world? Oppps boards.ie must have sidetracked me. I have to say having read some of your other posts, the level of hypocrisy in this particular case is unexpected. You mostly make good arguments, very well thought out statements. Yet here you're passing judgement on me (suggesting I'm lazy... wtf?) and making it more about ME than the actual case. Where do you get off doing that?
Well I didn't mean it as personal abuse, but I do think that it simply assuming that the justice system is wrong and needs to be sorted is a lazy view. That is not to say that you are lazy, but that such a view is. I'm not passing judgement on you, and I don't think I'm being hypocritical, but if you want to suggest that the justice system is broken, say what exactly needs to be fixed.Again, assuming I've 'missed' something and suggesting that I am wrong in my opinion. So because it's not what you believe, I must be wrong?! I was responding there to a comment made by another poster who mentioned a difference between well to do taxpayers and scumbags. Why in the name of God are you suggesting that I am 'prejudiced'? I believe I've stated more than once that I sympathise with both sides of this tragic case.
Icaras said scumbag and you inferred that he was on the dole.Exactly and given that the guy broke the law and killed a person, community service was not an appropriate sentence.... in my opinion.(my ''prejudiced'', ''mistaken'' and ''lazy'' point of view)
Why? What purpose will be served by sending him to jail? Is it appropriate to send everyone guilty of dangerous driving causing death to jail? There are a number of interested parties in the sentence:
A. Deceased's family - depending on the circumstances (and usually their relationship with the driver) they will sometimes think it is appropriate to send the driver to prison, other times they won't.
B. The driver - what is the best way to prevent this person from committing another offence and to punish him for this offence - here the level of punishment varies according to the level of blameworthiness of the driver. Many people who are involved in raod traffic accidents that result in death are deeply emotionally scarred by it.
C. The State - from a cost benefit analysis and ensuring the stability of the criminal justice system is prison appropriate. Generally, does the possibility of avoiding a prison sentence by pleading guilty avoid a costly trial that might not result in a conviction, and at a rate of €100,000 per year and the loss of revenue from the person's working & community service, is there benefit to be gained from sending the person to jail?
D. The public at large - the public need to see justice being done and to see crime deterred. Will a prison sentence actually deter further such offences?It is ridiculous the amount of times Boards.ie posters resort to making personal comments to other posters who dared to have an opposing opinion. I was not one of the posters that suggested that he should be physically harmed for what he did or even locked up for a long time. I simply said that I believed that 120hours of community service seemed to be a very minor punishment given that he was driving twice the speed limit. I sympathised with him and his family as I did for the victim and her family. I did not suggest that anyone should be harmed or given a severe punishment. So please, explain to me, what exactly I said that warranted you insinuating that I am a lazy and prejudiced person?
I certainly didn't intend to make personal comments and if it came across like that then I apologise, but I don't accept as axiomatic that a higher sentence (implicitly, a prison sentence) should be imposed irrespective of circumstances, where the offence is dangerous driving causing death as a result of speeding.0 -
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