Supersized players are at danger

Transform

This was the title of a piece in the sunday tribune yesterday which made ridiculous assumptions that the international rugby players at an under 20 level are now bigger and heavier than ever and at a danger to themselves.

He then went on to make more tentative links with supplement use and the early retirement of players e.g. Johna Lomu

while the light irish under 20 team lines up against the bulging All blacks what way do you think the result is going to go when the coaches fear the use of protein drinks and creatine? Yes there is some over use of supplements by some under age rugby players but from what i can see in the gym its not the supplements that are the problem its the weak ass training there doing i.e. half squats, never ever seen them deadlift and a 5 exercises for chest.

maxi-twist

I actually got a loan of an u-20 backs leinster i think it is programme,if i find it ill try to stick it up. I found the programme pretty hard going for the first few sessions but after that it got pretty easy, it focused more on volume than on strength. Im sure the forwards one where size counts is way different though. The people who make it through leinster are more genetics than anything,although im sure a lot of hard work comes into it. If you take a look at 2 emerging stars,cian healy and luke fitzgerald, the 2 guys are absolute monsters in the gym to tell you the truth.

On another note,talking to a NZ coach and he said that the NZ guys dont really do too many supplements until 20/21, they just live on a diet of steak n' eggs. The reason,in his opinion, their so much bigger is they start the gym at a younger age and thus get the form nailed making it easier to progress when their like 17/18 with perfect form and programmes.

Al_Fernz

Transform wrote: »

He then went on to make more tentative links with supplement use and the early retirement of players e.g. Johna Lomu

Did they actually say Jonah Lomu? And did they have any other examples of players because I can't think another that has retired through kidney problems.

The idea that Lomu retired because of supplement overuse is ridiculous. Jonah Lomu is a genetic freak, plain and simple. He would have been a beast with or without them.

The reason that people seem to think schools players are bigger now is because their coaches have far better knowledge of weight training and nutrition. Supps have fook all to do with it IMO. However, based on my observations of this year's cup I thought the large majority of them were all whippets. Maybe thats just me getting old tho!

thirdmantackle

that journo is correct

rugby has become all about size

its all about running into the opponent and putting in huge hits in tackles etc

maxi-twist

thirdmantackle wrote: »

that journo is correct

rugby has become all about size

its all about running into the opponent and putting in huge hits in tackles etc

Yeah just like shane williams 6 nations player of the tournament and bryan habana world player of the year last year. Rugby can be played by all shapes and sizes.

Remmy

maxi-twist wrote: »

Yeah just like shane williams 6 nations player of the tournament and bryan habana world player of the year last year. Rugby can be played by all shapes and sizes.

+1 two phenomenal players!

Colm_OReilly

There's no doubt that size and strength count for a lot in rugby, but to say it's all about size/strength is ridiculous, and a gross oversimplification.

I believe Transforms two points were that
a) the journo hadn't a clue about weight and health issues
b) most of the professional conditioning programs are ridiculous.

which I'd agree with.

Transform

The journalist was basically saying the non-irish players have been taking supplements to get bigger and MAY cause them to have health problems in the future and then used Johna Lomu as an example

g'em

The article:

Super-sized players run dangers to bulk up
Des Berry

IT was one of those eye-rubbing moments when those that were there paused for a split-second. It was there in the print of the programme and, then, in the size and shape of the boy-monster.

Seeing was believing. Ben Afeaki was in town.

He trundled across the whitewash at a ground-rumbling 145 kilos (22st 11lbs) during the Under-19 World Cup in Belfast last Easter.

The gargantuan prop is back in these parts again as the cornerstone of the New Zealand side that started as molten hot favourites for the Under-20 World Cup in Wales, playing Ireland on Tuesday evening.

The sight that day of Afeaki in Ravenhill rolled back the years to 1992 when the Ireland Schools went toe-totoe with a New Zealand Schools 17-year-old number eight Jonah Lomu.

Within three years, Lomu was blowing England wide open at the 1995 World Cup.

He was quite rightly seen as an astounding physical specimen. It also set off a whispering campaign as to how he could be so big and so fast.

The fear of God was drummed through New Zealand rugby when Lomu and Fijian Joeli Vidiri were paired on the extremities of the Counties Manukau and Auckland Blues attack.

These two men were linked by their physical presence, athletic ability and, within a few years, by their life-threatening kidney ailments.

Lomu was forced away from the game he loves by the serious onset of nephrotic syndrome in 1999. He was 28. Vidiri was cut down in his prime when he too was diagnosed with life-threatening renal failure at the end of the 2001 season. He was 29.

There has always been an unproven, widespread whisper that both men were suffering for the supplements they shoved into their bodies to build muscle mass as teenagers. Creatine is probably the sports supplement that has received most attention in the last 10 years. It is not a banned substance, but its long term safety is not known. There is anecdotal evidence of the widespread use of creatine, and other dubious supplements, among young players around the globe. The widening canyon in weight between the Ireland Under-18s and their Welsh and England counterparts was shocking at the Under-18 Six Nations Festival in April.

Ireland was playing against a Welsh pack of forwards that was an aggregate 85kg (13st 4lbs), or 8.5kg (1st 9lbs) per man, heavier than them.

Many of the Welsh team were prepared in a professional system at Newport-Gwent Dragons by their Academy Manager John Williams.

"We do a battery of tests at Under-15. We do a needs analysis for nutrition, skills, conditioning and education on each individual, " says Williams.

"We put them on a nationally monitored programme which includes weights and functional conditioning. They do two weights and three rugby sessions a week at 15.

We do very little on supplements. It is nutritionally based on individual needs."

Following on from the Six Nations Festival, the IRFU High Performance Manager Allen Clarke will confirm an elite pathway for the Under16 to Under-19 age groups.

"The IRFU will not follow the Wales and England example of moving players out of the schools and clubs at 15 years of age and into the professional provincial systems to physically prepare them for adult rugby.

They take a long-term view on physically conditioning, " says Clarke.

Leinster Academy Manager Colin McEntee issues:

"It is the number one sport in Wales. They are more ruthless in their development. I think the IRFU are very sound in their dealing with this. Whatever the Welsh and the English do, it is a quick fix, maybe. It doesn't sustain long-term development."

That remains to be seen.

The long-term impact of supplements and heavy weight conditioning are unknown.

The IRFU are thinking longterm health gain ahead of short-term playing pain.

There was a time when Lomu and Vidiri probably believed that rugby was the thing that mattered most in their lives. They know different now.

celestial

The long-term impact of supplements and heavy weight conditioning are unknown

What does he mean by heavy weight conditioning?! Simply lifting heavy weights like!?

AlphaMale 3OO

celestial wrote: »

The long-term impact of supplements and heavy weight conditioning are unknown

What does he mean by heavy weight conditioning?! Simply lifting heavy weights like!?

The usual drivel. One of these articles comes out every couple of months. The last one I read was in the indo.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/drug-testing-in-schools-rugby-is-not-farfetched-1290178.html

I had to comment on this one too as I'm sick of these demonising articles written in such profound ignorance.

Transform

Exactly, more utter rubbish by pencil pushing idiots who never even get into the gym.

maxi-twist

"There was a time when Lomu and Vidiri probably believed that rugby was the thing that mattered most in their lives. They know different now. "

What a ridiculous statement to make!

thirdmantackle

Rugby can be played by all shapes and sizes.

Williams and Habana have had to seriously beef themselves up to avoid getting hurt.

just the emphasis in junior rugby has also gone to the point now where you have to be training full time at making yourself bigger

all players across the whole pitch have got bigger.

leaves no room for someone who just wants to play

Hanley

thirdmantackle wrote: »

leaves no room for someone who just wants to play

Isn't there b and c teams?

Al_Fernz

thirdmantackle wrote: »

Williams and Habana have had to seriously beef themselves up to avoid getting hurt.

Thats a ridiculous thing to say because it discounts all the other great advantages that increased muscle mass has to playing rugby. I'm not even sure what you mean by "getting hurt".

The fact that the players are stronger and faster now makes the game far more entertaining. Go watch Rugbai Gold on TG4 and come back and tell me that the game is not better now because the players are not bigger, stronger and faster.

Al_Fernz

Hanley wrote: »

Isn't there b and c teams?

Yeah, and tag rugby too.

There are plenty of avenues for those that want to "just" play rugby.

thirtyfoot

If the article is to be believed regarding the focus of the irish system versus the English or Welsh then I'd prefer the Irish route as regards development of players or any athletes for that matter. Focus on skills and technique (and dare I say it some element of fun, even for elites underage) should be the focus at 15. Better for our young players having perfect technique in a one-handed offload in the tackle than in the power clean. The example of an Irish side 'over conditioned' and under skilled at the Senior World Cup needs to be heeded. In many sports, guys (or girls) who are stars at 13-16 because they are more physically developed fizzle out when everyone else catches up in later teens. I remember racing against a guy when I was under 12 who had a full blown tache! He won everything.

thirdmantackle

not knocking rugby here or anything

if the IRFU were really serious about more games for young elite players they would SCRAP schools CUP rugby

give every team and player more games. allow more players to shine

there are far more serious injuries happening on a rugby field today than 10 years ago. mainly due in my opinion to players bulking up

g'em

thirdmantackle wrote: »

there are far more serious injuries happening on a rugby field today than 10 years ago. mainly due in my opinion to players bulking up

Why do you think the two are linked?

brianthebard

Read that article on sunday, its a desperate excuse for journalism. This Ben afeaki guy certainly didn't get to be 145kilos just by necking protein and creatine. I think the lads writing these articles probably thought thats how it worked, took a few spoons of creatine and were then disappointed when they didn't suddenly sprout 19" arms. Now they are bitter and taking it out on the supps industry.

Jonny303

thirdmantackle wrote: »

not knocking rugby here or anything

if the IRFU were really serious about more games for young elite players they would SCRAP schools CUP rugby

give every team and player more games. allow more players to shine

there are far more serious injuries happening on a rugby field today than 10 years ago. mainly due in my opinion to players bulking up

But are there not far more people playing rugby these days??

Transform

Its a natural progression in ALL sports for athletes to get bigger, faster, stronger and injuries are just part of the game (at least injuries can be healed and recovery faster now not like years ago when some injuries were considered career ending).

The focus on the article was not so much about the size but the supplement taking.

The majority of athletes in any sport are genetic freaks and thats why they excell so pick your parents first, train hard, eat right and then you might go to the olympics