Bendy Buses for Dublin?

Bunnyhopper

This is from an interview with John Henry, Director of the Dublin Transportation Office, in the Irish Times (here - but you'll need a subscription):

"The DTO chief also suggested that Dublin Bus should replace all of its double-deck buses.

'Double-deck buses ruin the city - you can see a whole "wall" of them on O'Connell Street - so I'd say get them down to single-deckers.' Mr Henry favours 'bendy buses'.

'Articulated buses carry up to 120 people, but double deckers only 90,' he said."

Are these the same bendy buses that Boris Johnson wants off the streets of London, the ones he (a cyclist, whatever else you might think of him) said "wipe out cyclists"? (There's an interesting Channel 4 analysis of that here.)

Dublin Bus did have bendy buses on the 10 route, I recall. Does anyone have an opinion on the relative safety merits of the bendy bus in comparison with other types of buses, from the cyclist's perspective?

seamus

At certain times of the day, busses cause snarl-ups in the city by blocking roads or yellow boxes or otherwise preventing other large vehicles from getting around them. I'm sure that making the busses twice as long will only make traffic congestion worse in the city, not better. Who cares about the aesthetics? :rolleyes:

I can only imagine the dangers come from dealing with a longer vehicle and therefore having to factor in the fact that it'll take you much longer to reach and round a corner. In much the same way that articulated trucks are a much bigger danger to cyclists than double-decker busses.

Bicyclegadabout

Dunno about a cyclists perspective, but these things catch fire on a weekly basis in London.

jwwie

ironically, i just read this in the ny times a few weeks ago in favor of bring double decker buses back to the city. they are (according to the article) easier to maintain and manuever. and in my limited time in dublin, i would be surprised if the bendy buses would be able to get through some of the narrow roads around town. the double deckers have enough trouble as it is!

John_C

I'm a cyclist and I used to hate the bendy buses on the N11. The front of them would turn in to collect passengers but the back would still be sticking out into the road so the bus could block up a recessed bus stop, the cycle lane beside it and the bus lane outside that. That, along with the sheer length of them, made them an absolute nightmare to overtake.

A smaller problem was that it could happen that the bus beside you might turn in to collect passengers with the front blocking your progress and the back still beside you blocking you from turning out, leaving the cyclist in a kind of cul de sac made out of a bus.

markpb

If they're used properly, they're much more effective than double decker buses. In most cities, they'll have three or four sets of double doors like a train/tram/Luas so large numbers of people can get on and off very quickly so dwell times are tiny. In Dublin, we managed to miss the point completely so we only use one door and they hold up the traffic everytime they stop. They're also better for people with luggage, prams, wheelchairs, people with limited mobility as every seat is accessible. Even drunk people can celebrate not having to worry about the bus lurching to a halt as they go down the stairs.

Bicyclegadabout wrote: »

Dunno about a cyclists perspective, but these things catch fire on a weekly basis in London.

A small number of them went on fire in London and they're successfully used in lots of other cities. Double articulated buses are used in other cities without problem too.

seamus wrote: »

I can only imagine the dangers come from dealing with a longer vehicle and therefore having to factor in the fact that it'll take you much longer to reach and round a corner.

That's a perfectly valid point but if the buses stop for a much shorter amont of time, you're less likely to get stuck behind them.

Ghost Rider

This guy John Henry seems like an interesting chap. He's also toying with the idea of a "naked streets" -style experiment in Dublin (according to an article by Frank McDonald on the cover of today's Irish Times).

markpb

Ghost Rider wrote: »

This guy John Henry seems like an interesting chap. He's also toying with the idea of a "naked streets" -style experiment in Dublin (according to an article by Frank McDonald on the cover of today's Irish Times).

Unfortunately he works for a body with no money and no power. They dream up ideas like this (and the Platform For Change in 2001) but unless central government gives them money and they can convince of the LAs to implement them, nothing happens. I can't decide if it's a great job (paid to dream) or a terrible job (because no-one listens).

neilled

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

This is from an interview with John Henry, Director of the Dublin Transportation Office, in the Irish Times (here - but you'll need a subscription):

"The DTO chief also suggested that Dublin Bus should replace all of its double-deck buses.

'Double-deck buses ruin the city - you can see a whole "wall" of them on O'Connell Street - so I'd say get them down to single-deckers.' Mr Henry favours 'bendy buses'.

'Articulated buses carry up to 120 people, but double deckers only 90,' he said."

Are these the same bendy buses that Boris Johnson wants off the streets of London, the ones he (a cyclist, whatever else you might think of him) said "wipe out cyclists"? (There's an interesting Channel 4 analysis of that here.)

Dublin Bus did have bendy buses on the 10 route, I recall. Does anyone have an opinion on the relative safety merits of the bendy bus in comparison with other types of buses, from the cyclist's perspective?

The DB bendy buses that were deployed on the 10 were withdrawn and now seem to be used on the number 4.

As other posters have said, Dublin bus have missed the point entirely with bendybuses - the whole point is to get passengers on and off the busses faster through multiple doors , reducing loading/unloading times. Re the fires in London, the were confined to particular model of mercedes bus - i believe the dublin buses as a volvo chassis with a northern irish built Wright bodywork, although i stand to be corrected on that.

An effecient public transport system can only be in the interest of Cyclists, whereever they are, be it dublin or london. In spite of their length, I believe bendy buses will help increase the frequency of public transport and make it more reliable.

As a cyclist the main problem on the road is the private motorist.

Morgan

Ghost Rider wrote: »

This guy John Henry seems like an interesting chap. He's also toying with the idea of a "naked streets" -style experiment in Dublin (according to an article by Frank McDonald on the cover of today's Irish Times).

Do you know which streets he had in mind? Would you be allowed to wear anything during the colder months?

blorg

neilled wrote: »

As other posters have said, Dublin bus have missed the point entirely with bendybuses - the whole point is to get passengers on and off the busses faster through multiple doors , reducing loading/unloading times.

But only the front door works in Dublin, don't you know that? I know the drivers refuse to open them and it's an industrial relations deadlock with management but I am not 100% sure why (this info really should be on Wikipedia, but it's not); my guess is that they started to refuse to open them to protest against the removal of conductors and that on the flip side DB management now can't countenance reintroducing conductors on bendy bus routes with multiple doors. Complete and utter cock up as usual. Obvious Irish solution? Special order buses without middle doors.

markpb

blorg wrote: »

But only the front door works in Dublin, don't you know that? I know the drivers refuse to open them and it's an industrial relations deadlock with management but I am not 100% sure why (this info really should be on Wikipedia, but it's not); my guess is that they started to refuse to open them to protest against the removal of conductors and that on the flip side DB management now can't countenance reintroducing conductors on bendy bus routes with multiple doors. Complete and utter cock up as usual. Obvious Irish solution? Special order buses without middle doors.

Apparently it's a mixture of several things but the main one is down to the lack of parking enforcement. Unless the run-in to the bus stop is completely clear, the bus won't be able to pull in with both doors in line with the kerb. If someone gets out through the middle door and slipped between the bus and the kerb, the driver would be personally responsible and could be sued. The LRC ruled that drivers should not be forced to use the doors.

The other reasons are the usual tat about people getting on without paying their fare (who cares, hire inspectors) or people jamming the door open so the driver can't pull off. The drivers on the 17a (which runs through Finglas, Ballymun, Coolock and Kilbarrack) regularly use the middle door and it works a treat.

Felim_Doyle

What has happened to articulated 'bendy buses' in Dublin? Are they still in use? I haven't seen any on my recent visits to the city or at Dublin Airport. I have also read about a proposed 'Swiftway' transit system which would utilise theses buses. What has become of that?

CramCycle

145 drivers uses the middle doors for the second half of the journey and it works fine.

loyatemu

Felim_Doyle wrote: »

What has happened to articulated 'bendy buses' in Dublin? Are they still in use? I haven't seen any on my recent visits to the city or at Dublin Airport. I have also read about a proposed 'Swiftway' transit system which would utilise theses buses. What has become of that?

the articulated buses that were on the no. 4 route are gone, I think they were sold.

What's being proposed is BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) - basically like the Luas only using articulated buses with dedicated separate lanes and proper Luas-style stops. Lots of discussion of it over in the Commuting/Transport forum.

Wishbone Ash

Felim_Doyle wrote: »

What has happened to articulated 'bendy buses' in Dublin? Are they still in use? I haven't seen any on my recent visits to the city or at Dublin Airport...

They are still used at the airport.

(You do realise this thread is 9 years old?)

Beasty

Lads - I suggest you request a Bus spotters forum to be located over there - that means Sports CMods don't have to worry about anyone not paying their fare