Jeet Kune Do reading list

Martin25

Hi April Raine
The first books I would recommend are the ones by Bruce Lee and those edited by John Little.
These include the groundbreaking,The Tao of Jeet Kune Do
The four Bruce Lee Fighting Method Books especially "Basic Training"
John Little edited Bruce's writings art the request of Linda Lee,
books include;
Commentaries on the Martial Way, a masterpiece in my opinion.
The Art of Expressing the Human Body,
Striking Thoughts, and others.

There are a few other books by second generation instructors which are very good. However I would strongly recommend going to Bruce Lee's writings first before someone who is interpreting his work as it can get a little confusing out there.
Bruce was in a process of self discovery and changed his mind along the way as he became more aware. He held his belief in the truth in martial arts until the day he died. He certainly helped create the conditions for the MMA revolution, physically and philosophically. However JKD is a martial art in its own right and we are careful to promote it as he taught it.
all the best
Martin

April Raine

Martin25 wrote: »

Hi April Raine
The first books I would recommend are the ones by Bruce Lee and those edited by John Little.
These include the groundbreaking,The Tao of Jeet Kune Do
The four Bruce Lee Fighting Method Books especially "Basic Training"
John Little edited Bruce's writings art the request of Linda Lee,
books include;
Commentaries on the Martial Way, a masterpiece in my opinion.
The Art of Expressing the Human Body,
Striking Thoughts, and others.

There are a few other books by second generation instructors which are very good. However I would strongly recommend going to Bruce Lee's writings first before someone who is interpreting his work as it can get a little confusing out there.
Bruce was in a process of self discovery and changed his mind along the way as he became more aware. He held his belief in the truth in martial arts until the day he died. He certainly helped create the conditions for the MMA revolution, physically and philosophically. However JKD is a martial art in its own right and we are careful to promote it as he taught it.
all the best
Martin

Thanks Martin
April

JKD

Hi Martin

Good advice there on the books. Do you know of any JKD clubs in Dublin?

Thanks

Andrew H

Would Straight Blast Gym be considered JKD Concepts or have they evolved past JKD?

I have always had the highest respect for instructors who went out and found their own way in the JKD community like Burton Richardson (JKD Unlimited) and Matt Thornton (Straight Blast Gym). They are excellent instructors/authors and I have personally learned a lot from their writtings. Both men took Bruce's teaching and went on to develop their own way.

Martin25

I am not aware of any authorised Jeet Kune Do Clubs in Dublin.
We practice Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do as taught to me by Sigung Taky Kimura who is Bruce Lee's highest ranked student and his closest friend.
If someone wants JKD then they will need to seek out a good instructor, but buyer beware! There are some who claim to teach it who know practically nothing of the real JKD and do not have lineage.

JKD

Hi Martin, Andrew

Thanks for the reply. I will look into Straight Blast Gym.
If you do hear of a good instructor in Dublin, please let me know.

Thanks

john kavanagh

i run Straight Blast Gym and you are very welcome to come out and try a class...however i should point out that i've never done even 1 'JKD' class in my life and have no lineage to bruce lee....i have trained for many years under matt thornton, earned a black belt in bjj and fought pro mma a bunch of times. our gym has guys from 15 to late 50's, some there to fight pro mma but most there to get fit, learn martial arts and have fun. if that sounds like something that would interest you then drop out

this youtube clip will give you an idea of how we train

Martin25

Hi John
I met some of your students in Donegal a while ago and they are real nice people and have good BJJ skills.
all the best
Martin

john kavanagh

thanks martin

Martin25

Guys
I would recommend finding a good base martial art where you could learn how to defend yourself realistically and well before going off to conceptually discover your path /self etc.
One of the questions you may ask is, "Does my martial art equip me to defend myself against a violent attacker in the street"?
What do you think?

john kavanagh

Martin25 wrote: »

"Does my martial art equip me to defend myself against a violent attacker in the street"?
What do you think?

good question

another one might be how would i measure this?

bar getting in a 'violent street fight', how will i ever really know if my martial art has equipped me to deal with a 'violent street fight'.

April Raine

Martin25 wrote: »

"Does my martial art equip me to defend myself against a violent attacker in the street"?What do you think?

Martin which do you think is best. Sorry probably asked that before.

April Raine

john kavanagh wrote: »

good question

another one might be how would i measure this?

bar getting in a 'violent street fight', how will i ever really know if my martial art has equipped me to deal with a 'violent street fight'.

very good question

Muffin Head

john kavanagh wrote: »

good question

another one might be how would i measure this?

bar getting in a 'violent street fight', how will i ever really know if my martial art has equipped me to deal with a 'violent street fight'.

While I'm sure others have a far greater knowledge of such matters I would imagine that training any art with a resisting opponent would help one realise whether their chosen art will help them defend themselves in a 'violent street fight'.

This accompanied with entering into competitions etc would help someone handle/become accustomed to the adrenaline dump which would occur if violently attacked.

Martin25

In the past I have been in violent street fights and managed to survive them. I hesitate to say I won because I was lucky that the attackers did not use a blade or I would have probably ended up on a slab. I was not looking for trouble, it was looking for me and I was perhaps too inexperienced and had too much bravado to avoid it.
The only thing I knew at the time was Karate and Kick Boxing and I had a lot of fighting spirit to draw on which made up for a lack of knowledge.
I am even more wary now because I have studied blade arts for 20 years and I know that a crazed idiot with a knife is "king of the streets"

Martin25

Which one is best?
Many claim that title,I suppose best at what?
Kicking ? In a toilet/ phone box?
Punching ? He has closed you down?
Grappling? He has a knife or his mate has one as well?
Multiple assailants? with weapons?
You have taken drink/drugs or he has?
You are at a party in his house. His mates start on you in the kitchen and they are pulling knives out of the knife block?

john kavanagh

Martin25 wrote: »

Which one is best?
Many claim that title,I suppose best at what?
Kicking ? In a toilet/ phone box?
Punching ? He has closed you down?
Grappling? He has a knife or his mate has one as well?
Multiple assailants? with weapons?
You have taken drink/drugs or he has?
You are at a party in his house. His mates start on you in the kitchen and they are pulling knives out of the knife block?

good post, really highlights the futility of training for self defence or 'the street' as the infinite number of possible circumstances make it impossible to train for.

Martin25

Right on John
We cannot possibly train for all circumstances.
Here's an example
One of my Instructors came out from a bank and was walking in the mainstreet he was ambushed by two men and one was in a car waiting.
The first guy tried to stab him in the chest and my instructor did a simultaneous block and hit the guy in the throat. When the other mugger saw this he ran to the car and they drove off leaving their mate lying on the ground.
The only thing that saved my friends life was years of training. He did not think about what to do he just did it.

Martin25

The training on simultaneous blocking and hitting is done regularly in my JKD classs and its the business.

john kavanagh

wow just tried to stab him in the chest? :eek: didnt ask for money or anything? sounds more like a 'hit' than a mugging...although he could've just came up behind him and stabbed him in the back if he just wanted to kill him.

"...and I had a lot of fighting spirit to draw on which made up for a lack of knowledge"

its funny most self defence instructors i speak to talk of similar experiences ie they did most of their fighting as younger men, usually successfull because of their 'fighting spirit' (can this be taught?) not any martial arts training and then when they actually trained martial arts they didnt get in fights anymore (maybe grown up and now dont socialise in bars etc). the art of fighting without fighting

Martin25

Hi John
The guy first told him to hand over his wallet and when he did not he came at him with the knife. As he did so he got hit with a webhand strike on the throat which dropped him.

john kavanagh

have to admit if it was me and i was mugged by two guys with knives and another one waiting in the car i'd have just given the wallet.

April Raine

Martin25 wrote: »

phone box

friend of mine was attacked in a phone box and he used.... the phone. What is you experienced guys opinion of that?

With allte talk of being trained and possibly still vulnerable on the street did the Bruce Lee movies do a disservice by giving the almost romantic impression a highly trained person could beat anyone? What if Bruce was in a phone box or toilet or against a blade in real life would he survive? I once read he could do all the movie stuff for real and did not use movie tricks

April Raine

Martin25 wrote: »

Hi John
The guy first told him to hand over his wallet and when he did not he came at him with the knife. As he did so he got hit with a webhand strike on the throat which dropped him.

Martin
Is that the same as a knife hand?

Martin25

John so would I.
I would have handed over the money and got the hell out of there.
My instructor had different ideas.
The webhand strike is one with the web of the hand open between thumb and forefinger striking hard to the front of the throat.

Charlie3dan

April Raine wrote: »

With allte talk of being trained and possibly still vulnerable on the street did the Bruce Lee movies do a disservice by giving the almost romantic impression a highly trained person could beat anyone? What if Bruce was in a phone box or toilet or against a blade in real life would he survive? I once read he could do all the movie stuff for real and did not use movie tricks

I don't think you could say he did a disservice by making good movies (at least they were at the time). Most people should know to separate the movies from reality.

Bruce in a phone box? All depends what the circumstances are in the phone box/ toilet/ blade. If you're asking if Bruce lee would be expected to beat anyone in any circumstance? No. Was he invincible? No.
In any situation, there are thousands of variables that you react to instinctively. No two attacks are the same.

I have no doubt that bruce could perform all of the techniques in his movies (although he did use a then unheard of jackie chan for a stunt double in Fist of Fury). However, I don't think he could apply them as easily to real life.

Martin25

There is a big difference in what he did in his movies for theatrical effect and what he taught in his JKD classes. He was really into simple ,direct ,effective techniques and developed a "small number of answers to a lot of questions".
He added to his martial art with a great philosophy and empowerment message. Bruce was just a man but a very talented one.
My Instructor says Bruce was the fastest man ever to stand in front of him.

Nothingcompares

I reckon if Bruce Lee was still alive he'd be a big part of the MMA movement and JKD wouldn't look the way it does now.

Martin25

Dana White said that Bruce started the MMA movement!
Look at the opening scene of Enter the Dragon, made 35 years ago.
What structure are you talking about?

Martin25

Nothingcompares
How does JKD look to you?
Just curious

Nothingcompares

http://www.hardcorejkd.com/instructional_videos.php

That looks fairly representative of my views on what JKD looks like. It looks like a lot of guys doing trapping movements which seem very intricate, based very much on speed and timing and must only be useful to someone that has spent a lot of time practising them. And that's only in a compliant scenario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_9ZwLvLXdQ

That's a video of the two lowest level MMA guys I could find sparring on youtube and I think that type of training is far more functional and realistic and therefore a lot closer to what Bruce Lee would be doing if he was around today.

Martin25

The JKD clip is Full Instructor Lamar Davis teaching the elements of trapping hands at a seminar (on trapping) in New York. As you may know this is part of the HIA 5 ways of attack.
The other clip looks like two mates trying out some basic mma sport techniques in their garden.
You are not comparing like with like. I think that there are people who like to criticise without any real knowledge of a subject. Have you any substantive background in martial arts or JKD? Such as ten years in a recognised martial art? You don't post your real name so who are you and what do you do or know?
Lamar is known as one of the most formidable fighters in the JKD clan, why did you not show him that his technique was no good and tell him that to his face here in Ireland as he was here teaching for ten years?
I don't say that one martial art is better than another, thats up to the choice of an individual.

Martin ONeill

Roper

Martin I don't think anyone is disrespecting anyone's technique, but rather questioning the training methods involved. That being said youtube is not exactly the ultimate resource for anything, clips are misleading.

Martin25

Hi there
I enjoy an educated/lively discussion but don't like keyboard warriors making assertions about someone or something that they don't appear to know or arts that they have not trained in. Just because someone may have attended a class or seminar or have has a instructor who did a bit of dabbling in training in this or that and then slags off that art is just silly. Some do this deliberately to impress their students and appear to be the sage/guru/etc.

Nothingcompares

a different perspective on jkd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyLQtJlNMeI

is this like your jkd martin?

I am a Sage.

Martin25

Lamar will be in England soon so why don't you take your critical appraisal directly to him as he is always glad to help.

Dragan

A good conversation is turning a tad bitter here.

I would like to see it turn around.

Dragan
- Forum Moderator

Martin25

Dragan
We have an open door policy at our gym and any martial arts student is welcome to visit us and share his /her knowledge. Our club is known for its friendly anti sectarian and and hard working ethos.
We are sure of one thing ,that we don't know it all and are only trying to enjoy our martial art. We have a core curriculum and try to keep to it. However we are open minded enough to want to learn more and that is why I hosted Royce Gracie at my club a couple of months ago.

Sifu LMD II

Hello Martin and Everyone!

Thanks for letting me know of the existence of this forum! Now that I know of its existence, I will try to visit here more often!

I noticed that some comments were made regarding my video clips posted on YouTube. As already stated, it is often easy to make rude comments regarding the skills of another on a martial arts discussion forum. When you are only looking at a video clip, you cannot sense the true energy of what is happening, and there is a BIG difference between watching something and having it actually done to you!

I will be the first to admit that to become good at trapping hands, you must spend many hours of live training to understand the mechanics of the movements, and more importantly, acquire the sensitivity to know how and when to use the traps! But, I will have to say that when you get it, you REALLY have something! Some are too lazy to put inthe time and effort to get really good at trapping, so they prefer to say that it doesn't work (easy way out). All I can say is that they had better hope they never run across someone who really knows how to trap in a REAL fight situation!

I will be coming to England for a seminar tour in November. The main seminar will be a Kwoklyn Wan's school in Leicester on November 15th and 16th. I hope that many of you will be able to come and train with me! Oh, and by the way, that was me that Martin was talking about that crushed the throat of the knife weilding opponent! Made for an interesting evening!

Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
HARDCORE JEET KUNE DO
http://www.HardcoreJKD.com
http://www.DragonBlastMA.com
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com

"Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit First ... ALWAYS!"

Nothingcompares

Thanks Sifu for dropping by. If I lived in England I'd be sure to drop by and see your seminar.

Kevin the Sage

Sifu LMD II

Hello Kevin!

Thanks for the welcome, and I do hope that you wil be able to attend a seminar while I am over there! There are practitioners coming from Ireland, Northern Ireland and Germany. It would be a pleasure to meet you and work with you if you could make the trip! I would be happy to clear up any doubts or misconceptions that you have regarding Jeet Kune Do! I hope to see you in November! Until then, take care and God Bless!

Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
HARDCORE JEET KUNE DO
http://www.HardcoreJKD.com
http://www.DragonBlastMA.com
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com

"Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit First ... ALWAYS!"

Nothingcompares

Sifu LMD II wrote: »

Hello Martin and Everyone!

When you are only looking at a video clip, you cannot sense the true energy of what is happening, and there is a BIG difference between watching something and having it actually done to you!

Well I only linked to the video you are using to advertise your new DVD collection.

www.hardcorejkd.com/ wrote:

You will see me at my explosive best! You are going to love this footage, and will want to watch it over and over again! these three DVDs are available for ... $80.00

I thought they'd be representative of your training but obviously not.

Sifu LMD II wrote: »

All I can say is that they had better hope they never run across someone who really knows how to trap in a REAL fight situation!

Well, trying not to state the obvious, I'd rather not run across anyone and get in a fight with them, especially someone trained in martial arts, whether they're an expert at "trapping" or not.

Sifu LMD II wrote: »

Oh, and by the way, that was me that Martin was talking about that crushed the throat of the knife weilding opponent! Made for an interesting evening!

Wow! Such a jovial attitude to an extremely aggravated assault. They must have been some very unusual circumstances to be faced with a guy trying to hurt you with a knife and then feeling it acceptable to cause a life threatening injury to him. Personally I wouldn't brag about this kind of behaviour (unless I was trying to sell a seminar to some martial arts nuts).

Sifu LMD II wrote: »

I would be happy to clear up any doubts or misconceptions that you have regarding Jeet Kune Do!

You must be a very persuasive charismatic man who is very sure of himself if you think you can clear up all my doubts and misconceptions abut JKD when you don't even know what they are.

How would you feel your JKD deviates to what's said in this link http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/2005/07/why-aliveness.html I'm sure there are a lot of similarities but right now I'm interested in the differences.

To be honest almost every fundamental principle I have with regard to martial arts in expressed in that article.

SorGan

Wow! Such a jovial attitude to an extremely aggravated assault. They must have been some very unusual circumstances to be faced with a guy trying to hurt you with a knife and then feeling it acceptable to cause a life threatening injury to him. Personally I wouldn't brag about this kind of behaviour..Nothingcompares

x2
that type of bragging put me right off instructors in the past.

Sifu LMD II

Hello Again!

When I visit a forum and post, it is with good intentions and hopes of being able to help someone in some way. I was not anticipating having my every word disected, twisted, and turned into something negative! With an attitude like that, good luck in life! I have too much going on in my life, all positive, to waste time on a forum where everything is responded to in a negative way! I hope things get better here. Take care everyone, God Bless, and good luck with your training!

Sincerely,
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
HARDCORE JEET KUNE DO

Tim_Murphy

Hi Lamar, Martin,

Maybe I've missed it already, but are there any videos of people using trapping on a non-compliant opponent? I looked at some of the videos on the link posted above and it looks interesting. I'd love to see how it works against a person that was fighting back.

Cheers,
Tim

Martin25

Tim
I don't know if anyone has these. If I can find out I will post you.
Martin

Martin25

I enjoyed reading Matt's article. Will have another look later.

Tim_Murphy

Martin25 wrote: »

Tim
I don't know if anyone has these. If I can find out I will post you.
Martin

Cool, thanks. I had a quick look on youtube but all I found was compliant stuff similar to the link above.

Martin25

Tim
When we teach trapping their is little resistance offered by a partner to enable the student to learn the mechanics.
The key is to try to integrate it and use it against a resisting or atacking opponent, then it becomes more difficult to do but its possible.
For example watch two good boxers or grapplers going at it, there are usually lots of opportunities to trap an arm,leg etc.
The mistake some make is to think TRAP instead of think HIT!
Trapping is just a means to an end.
I hope that this makes sense.

Dragan

Martin,

I think any issues anyone has could be laid to rest with a video showing the use of trapping against a non compliant partner, that is to say the use of trapping in a live sparring situation.

For me personally i know the visual showing of the art in full flow would be a very interesting watch.

Hopefully it would be possible offer a link to this? Alternately, if such a clip does not exist it would be fantastic to produce one and pop it up on youtube. I think such a thing would be of great interest to the martial arts community world wide.:)

I have found this video which says in Bruce Lee sparring JKD. Does anyone know if it is legit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVVGZEFQusM

Martin25

I think its a clip of the Ed Parker Longbeach Tournament in 1967.
Martial arts tournaments were non contact at the time and Bruce caused a "sensation" with this sparring and helped bring about the kickboxing era which was the forerunner of MMA.

Why don't you ask the main JKD forums if they have any good stuff and I will do the same. However there are lots of duff clips as well.

By the way I am relatively new here and some of you appear to be close friends.
I would much rather have a good friendly exchange of views with forum members than an unproductive arguement which results in hurt feelings.
all the best
Martin