Confused about creatine!

Blacktie.

Hey everyone I've recently started thinking about supplements to get stronger quicker. I've ordered a tub of whey protein because it seems the safest and most natural but I was also wondering about creatine. I've looked into it a bit but theres so many sides to it its hard to judge. As far as I can tell its not bad if its not abused (sounds like a drug :-S) but it can have some side effects on the kidneys and there have been no long term tests for other side effects.

Basically I want to know if its ok if you only use it for a month or two or would it even be worth doing for a month or two for the benefits? How long does it take to notice a difference with creatine and other supplements if used with regular weights and sessions at the gym?

Thanks for the info guys.

BossArky

How long have you been training?

Blacktie.

About 9 months but took a month off in January because of college stuff.

BossArky

I suppose there is nothing wrong with protein or creatine right now, but maybe you'd be better off figuring out how your body grows and reacts to food for a few years before going for supplements.

Blacktie.

Yeah I don't really want to hit the supplements to hard I just something to add some protein to my diet as I know I'm not getting enough. I have only recently started adjusting my diet to increase the amount of protein I'm getting in and cut out some of the bad stuff! I might leave the creatine for abit further down the road I think as I'm not to sure about it yet and its not a pressing matter anyway was just wondering what the general consensus is about it on here.

tribulus

If it's just extra protein you need then stick with whey.

I like creatine and have found it effective when training hard. I do not know of any studies on healthy individuals where it had a detrimental effect on the kidneys. The only time I had a problem with it was a bit of muscle cramping and to be fair that was most likely down to my hydration (or lack of) rather than creatine.

Pen1987

I took it for the first two months of training and it was good to give me a kickstart.

I was very surprised with the reaction of my body to it. I took it for the first time walking to the gym and it was an immeidiate sensation similar to taking a hit of caffeine, like a buzz straight away, it was mad. I dont think it actually made me get any bigger, it helped me recover faster and train harder though.

tribulus

Riiiight.

Creatine does not give you a buzz, or shouldn't. That was either something else, or the placebo effect of knowing you're "on" something.

g'em

Pen1987 wrote: »

it helped me recover faster and train harder though.

Thereby allowing you to get bigger indirectly. There's nothing magical about creatine, it's an "energy-booster" for want of a better phrase.

Creatine won't make you bigger, but the better performance you put in at the gym as a result of taking it will.

Pen1987

tribulus wrote: »

Riiiight.

Creatine does not give you a buzz, or shouldn't. That was either something else, or the placebo effect of knowing you're "on" something.

Maybe it was, it was my first few weeks of training, hardly all that experienced training at the time.

@ G'em... I know its an indirect. What I was trying to say that if you've been training 3 days a week and begin taking creatine but dont up your training rate to 5/6/7 days you wont magically get bigger even though you would have the 'ability', for want of a better phrase, to train harder because you've recovered quicker.

Patto

If you are not getting enough protein, whcih is at least 2g per kg of lean body mass per day then taking a whey supplement isn't a bad idea.

Creatine is diffentent. When it comes to supplements the most common advise is the "get your diet right first before looking at supplements". This is true for most supplements except for creatine. Creatine once loaded up will saturate in your muscles within about 2 weeks. If you respond well to creatine you will notice that you will put on a few pounds in this time. This weight is mostly water which is bonded to the creatine in your muscles. If you are training you will then start to notice improved gains on your lifts. You won't get the same gains from bodyweight excersises however, for example chin ups, sprints and even squats due to the extra weight. I respond very well to creatine but my chin and sprint stats disimprove, that is the main reason I don't take creatine anymore. It adds 10Kg to by bench press and I have heard of people who lift bigger bench presses than I do claim even greater gains. It also allows you to lift most sets and maybe even recover quicker between sets as you have a greater ATP capacity with creatine.

Just as an example at 210Lbs off creatine I could bench about 80Kg at 217Lb on creatine that jumped up to 90Kg, I'm now 212Lbs off creatine and I'm back up to a 90Kg bench. At 217Lbs without creatine I reckon I could and will bench 120Kg. There are other factors at play of course but my point is if functional strength is more important to you, I'm thinking field sports here, then creatine ain't all its cracked up to be. If you want to lift the biggest weights you can and look big then go for it. Its probably a useful training aid also.

Yeah, you can't completely dismiss the long term affects arguements. Personally I think its rubbish but I know there are people I'd never convince. Its not something that you can try for a few weeks every now and again. Once creatine saturates is stays at that level for 21 days without supplementation. It took 12-16 weeks for my weight to go back to normal the last time I took it.

Patto

Pen1987 wrote: »

Maybe it was, it was my first few weeks of training, hardly all that experienced training at the time.

@ G'em... I know its an indirect. What I was trying to say that if you've been training 3 days a week and begin taking creatine but dont up your training rate to 5/6/7 days you wont magically get bigger even though you would have the 'ability', for want of a better phrase, to train harder because you've recovered quicker.

I found with creatine the better recovery was in between sets only. In fact your recovery in between sessions possibly decreases as you are able to work with bigger loads and volumes therby putting more stress on you body requiring greater recovery time. Its ain't that good unfortunately.

Roper

A word of warning about creatine that you don't hear from the alarmists...


... farts. Horrific, horrific farts.

tribulus

Lol, yeah maybe a bit of stomach bloating too. Combine that with whey and uuuggh.

Zorba

So should u take creatine before or after a workout ?

And how many grams of creatine should you take a day to see improved performance ?

Thanks in advance

tribulus

Search function for the love of protein.

Patto

Zorba wrote: »

So should u take creatine before or after a workout ?

And how many grams of creatine should you take a day to see improved performance ?

Thanks in advance

It doesn't matter a great deal. Maybe afterwards with a simple carb for improved absorbtion. There are all sorts of loading and maintanance protocols. They all work as far as I can see.

I used to take 5g four times a day duiring the loading phase which lasts 2-3 weeks, then 5g in my pwo shake on training days only.

Zorba

Patto wrote: »

It doesn't matter a great deal. Maybe afterwards with a simple carb for improved absorbtion. There are all sorts of loading and maintanance protocols. They all work as far as I can see.

I used to take 5g four times a day duiring the loading phase which lasts 2-3 weeks, then 5g in my pwo shake on training days only.

Jezzz no wonder i wasn't having much effect off it, i was only taking 3g once a days after a workout :eek:

BossArky

Pen1987 wrote: »

I was very surprised with the reaction of my body to it. I took it for the first time walking to the gym and it was an immeidiate sensation similar to taking a hit of caffeine, like a buzz straight away, it was mad.

You post some bizarre stuff.

Hanley

tribulus wrote: »

Lol, yeah maybe a bit of stomach bloating too. Combine that with whey and uuuggh.

Add in 10g of glutamine and it feels like someone's playing football inside your stomach.

Patto

Zorba wrote: »

Jezzz no wonder i wasn't having much effect off it, i was only taking 3g once a days after a workout :eek:

Sorry I realise that that can be read in different ways. The 5g after training is for maintanance. You load up over 2-3 weeks first with 20g a day then, once saturated you maintain with 5g on workout days. At least that is what I used to do. Keep an eye on your weight while loading you should see your weight shoot and then plateau. When you have plateaued you are fully loaded.

Zorba

Patto wrote: »

Sorry I realise that that can be read in different ways. The 5g after training is for maintanance. You load up over 2-3 weeks first with 20g a day then, once saturated you maintain with 5g on workout days. At least that is what I used to do. Keep an eye on your weight while loading you should see your weight shoot and then plateau. When you have plateaued you are fully loaded.

Yes i get what u mean, but what's the craic with weight shooting up ? At the mo i'm slowly gaining muscle but not gaining much weight if that makes sense, seems i'm loosing a bit of fat and gaining muscle which seems to be balancing each other out hence i'm not gaining much weight. But if i load up with creatine will it be muscle that'll cause the weight gain or what ?

Hanley

No, it'll be water. Creatine tends to suck water into the muscles which leads to a bloated/fuller appearance and heavier weight on the scales.

Incidentally that's why you need to drink more water to prevent cramps when taking creatine too.

Zorba

Hanley wrote: »

No, it'll be water. Creatine tends to suck water into the muscles which leads to a bloated/fuller appearance and heavier weight on the scales.

Incidentally that's why you need to drink more water to prevent cramps when taking creatine too.

Ah right, learn something new everyday !!

So when i stop taking creatine do the muscles loose the water and thus look less full ?

Blacktie.

Thats alot of information cheers guys pretty sure I got my head bit more wrapped around what its all about.

Hanley

Zorba wrote: »

Ah right, learn something new everyday !!

So when i stop taking creatine do the muscles loose the water and thus look less full ?

Pretty much.

Zorba

Hanley wrote: »

Pretty much.

Sorry for the stupid questions here but then what's the point in taking it ?

Unless i can still lift the same weight without it ?

g'em

Zorba wrote: »

Sorry for the stupid questions here but then what's the point in taking it ?

It increases explosive power, allows you to train longer and harder and decreases recovery times.

There's validity in the argument though that only those who have been training long enough to really know their body and how it responds to training will see these effects as they do tend to be subtle. But when you're constantly performing at 100% in training, creatine can help push you into 110% territory. It only works as hard as you make it.

Mhmm...weetabix

Patto wrote: »

.You load up over 2-3 weeks first with 20g a day then, once saturated you maintain with 5g on workout days.

Suprised no one else has commented on this.
Alot of articles I've read on Creatine state that loading phase although is effective short term is just a money maker for companies as you plough through the stuff and have to buy more, you lose about 50% of it as your body can only absorb so much at a time. I've found myself by taking 5g a day from the outset you'll get the same benefits just a little bit slower but at better value then when I was knieve enough to buy and read the back of Cell tech brand products....The money I could've saved....

Hanley

Zorba wrote: »

Sorry for the stupid questions here but then what's the point in taking it ?

Unless i can still lift the same weight without it ?

Creatine helps to increase the energy stored in your muscles (ATP) allowing you to do more work for longer. THAT'S the reason why creatine is so effective. More work = more weight and more muscle.

It doesn't actually do anything to physically increase your muscle mass, but it does give you the ability to train harder, and that's where the gains come from

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

Suprised no one else has commented on this.
Alot of articles I've read on Creatine state that loading phase although is effective short term is just a money maker for companies as you plough through the stuff and have to buy more, you lose about 50% of it as your body can only absorb so much at a time. I've found myself by taking 5g a day from the outset you'll get the same benefits just a little bit slower but at better value then when I was knieve enough to buy and read the back of Cell tech brand products....The money I could've saved....

i wouldn't be so sure about it being junk. I've always got my best results when super dosing creatine, 10-15g of mono post workout and 3-4g of CEE pre workout for 5 or 6 weeks.

I know AmazingEmmet had similar success with super dosing too.

Zorba

Hanley wrote: »

i wouldn't be so sure about it being junk. I've always got my best results when super dosing creatine, 10-15g of mono post workout and 3-4g of CEE pre workout for 5 or 6 weeks.

I know AmazingEmmet had similar success with super dosing too.

U mean 10-15g in one after workout shake or taken over a few hrs ?

Anyway thanks for all the replies, now i know a lot more about creatine than i did before.

Hanley

Zorba wrote: »

U mean 10-15g in one after workout shake or taken over a few hrs ?

Anyway thanks for all the replies, now i know a lot more about creatine than i did before.

In one shake.