Justin McCarthy

KevIRL

Big talk down here today that Justin will no longer be Waterford Manager after today. The players had a meeting last night and a vote of no confidence was taken.

Keano

Not surprising. He has really out stayed his welcome. TBH I think he has gotten all he can from the side and should have left after last years defeat to Limerick.

tonc76

KevIRL wrote: »

Big talk down here today that Justin will no longer be Waterford Manager after today. The players had a meeting last night and a vote of no confidence was taken.

Just heard the same from a mate

Has he outstayed his welcome? Is last Sunday's performance being put down to his lack of preparation? Seems so if there has been a vote of no confidence? Is he being made a scapegoat?

Sherifu

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Not surprising. He has really out stayed his welcome. TBH I think he has gotten all he can from the side and should have left after last years defeat to Limerick.

Agreed.

catxxx

was talk of it on TV3 this morning too

premierstone

If this is true then sorry but i think its absolutely absurd and another example of player power gone way too far, firstly just remember where waterford were before Justin came in and look at what he has achieved since.

Also maybe some of the players need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.

And who exactly to the players think is goin to come in and weave a magic wand, cos anyone that takes this job now would want their head examined, an ageing team who spit the dummy out after one defeat to a much improved Clare with half a team?

And i dont think any of the waterford fans have any right to call for he's head either seeing that they didnt bother their ar*e to even go to the game last sunday :mad:

fricatus

premierstone wrote: »

And i dont think any of the waterford fans have any right to call for he's head either seeing that they didnt bother their ar*e to even go to the game last sunday :mad:

Are you kidding? There were just as many Waterford supporters as Clare supporters there, though the overall turnout was poor enough for a Munster championship match in some people's view. I couldn't get over the number of people in blue and white all walking out the Ennis Road, despite all the talk of people staying at home in Blaa-land and watching it on TV3...

premierstone

fricatus wrote: »

Are you kidding? There were just as many Waterford supporters as Clare supporters there, though the overall turnout was poor enough for a Munster championship match in some people's view. I couldn't get over the number of people in blue and white all walking out the Ennis Road, despite all the talk of people staying at home in Blaa-land and watching it on TV3...

So you think that half of 18,000 is a good turnout for a munster championship game? How many Clare fans were there is not the issue in fairness.

Zzippy

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Not surprising. He has really out stayed his welcome. TBH I think he has gotten all he can from the side and should have left after last years defeat to Limerick.

Some people have very short memories. Waterford were nowhere before he took over, he has had remarkable success with them. They were unlucky last year to meet a Limerick team full of confidence and who had more hard championship hurling under their belts than any other team. I think if they had won that game they could have beaten Kilkenny in the final.
One bad result and you're calling for his head!

premierstone

Zzippy wrote: »

Some people have very short memories. Waterford were nowhere before he took over, he has had remarkable success with them. They were unlucky last year to meet a Limerick team full of confidence and who had more hard championship hurling under their belts than any other team. I think if they had won that game they could have beaten Kilkenny in the final.
One bad result and you're calling for his head!

Nice to see someone else agrees with me, was beginning to think i was wrong, god forbid

hunter164

So because the team played atrocious except for Mullane they are going to blame their manager?Who were Waterford before he took over?He's won youse Munster Championships and touse have fell just short of All Ireland finals.Last year youse were unlucky and I though youse were a bit tired after 2 tough matches against Cork and then Limerick.
It'd be very harsh on McCarthy if he does get the sack.

jprender

Look, Waterford are not going to win an all-ireland, they are the proverbial chokers.

It doesnt matter if they are beaten in the first round or the semis, they are not going to win it anyway.

Blaming the manager is not right. Players not being able to deliver on the big occasion is the problem imho.

KevIRL

An unscheduled meeting of the county board has been called for tonight after the Waterford-Limerick u-21 game in Walsh Park. Its likely that after this meeting Justin will no longer my manager.

IMO its disgraceful. The man has brought success to Waterford and doen a great job over the last few years with the team. Player power cannot be allowed to dictate decisions like this. Also changing managers in the middle of a championship season is madness.

Dont get me wrong, I acknowledge that McCarthy has made some mistakes year. Dropping James Murray from the panel was madness, also starting with 2 players who were clearly nowhere near fully fit on Sunday (Moran and Shanahan). Also the lack of clear direction from the bench and unwillingness to make changes till it was too late.

But at the end of the day out of the starting 15 only 4 or 5 players played to or above their abilty, the players must shoulder a lot of the blame for Sunday's result. Instead they seem determined to make a scapegoat of the manager.

The correct outcome here IMO would be for players and manager to put their differences aside and give the qualifiers a right go, and see what happens. Instead we have a shambolic situation where the players had a meeting and have basically made the managers position untenable.

KevIRL

fricatus wrote: »

Are you kidding? There were just as many Waterford supporters as Clare supporters there, though the overall turnout was poor enough for a Munster championship match in some people's view. I couldn't get over the number of people in blue and white all walking out the Ennis Road, despite all the talk of people staying at home in Blaa-land and watching it on TV3...

Firstly I think that premierstone is wrong to say that no Waterford fans turned out on Sunday, but there was HUGE drop off in numbers. I'd say there was 8,000 of us there on Sunday max. When was the last time we brought 8,000 to a Munster championship match? A long time ago. Unfortunately a lot of Waterford fans seem to have fallen victim of supporting when times are good. People can throw out the Limerick arguement, but thats a load of crap. Its Munster Championship, the only way I would have missed the game last Sunday is if I was out of the country.

Too many were either waiting for later rounds, or following a poor league campaign not bothering going and waiting to knock the team

Tomthepost

My first thoughts are Babs and Offaly.
What is the story with Eoin Kelly. Reported in the IMOS that he has been kicked off the panel.
16-1 for All-Ireland on Paddy Power!

KevIRL

Tomthepost wrote: »

My first thoughts are Babs and Offaly.
What is the story with Eoin Kelly. Reported in the IMOS that he has been kicked off the panel.
16-1 for All-Ireland on Paddy Power!

Yep, I'm not getting into any specifics as to why, as its unfair on the player and just speculation. But according to local news paper reports down here (and a lot of talk) he was indeed thrown off the panel.

premierstone

KevIRL wrote: »

Firstly I think that premierstone is wrong to say that no Waterford fans turned out on Sunday, but there was HUGE drop off in numbers. I'd say there was 8,000 of us there on Sunday max.

Point taken Kev and i was being a bit harsh on the genuine fans but i was so incensed when i read this that i got a bit carried away, but i still think it is absolute madness to make mccarthy the scapegoat for this and an insult to a man that has done so much good for hurling in waterford and in general and quite honestly i think this could be a decision that waterford hurling will suffer as a result of and no-one wants that

premierstone

Tomthepost wrote: »

My first thoughts are Babs and Offaly.

A completely different situation though IMO firstly babs had contributed nothing to offaly where as mccarthy made this waterford team what they are, and also babs was running to the media every five minutes slaggin off the offaly boys, mccarthy has never and would never resort to such pettiness

Waylander

premierstone wrote: »

A completely different situation though IMO firstly babs had contributed nothing to offaly where as mccarthy made this waterford team what they are, and also babs was running to the media every five minutes slaggin off the offaly boys, mccarthy has never and would never resort to such pettiness

Have to say I agree entirely with PS here. I think anyone who calls for his head should be ashamed of themselves. They deserve to go back to the bland miserable existence they had as sports fans before Mc Carthy gave their summers a bit of cheer and colour.

Lost allot of respect for Waterford fans today.

tonc76

Waylander wrote: »

Have to say I agree entirely with PS here. I think anyone who calls for his head should be ashamed of themselves. They deserve to go back to the bland miserable existence they had as sports fans before Mc Carthy gave their summers a bit of cheer and colour.

Lost allot of respect for Waterford fans today.

You've lost a lot of respect for Waterford fans??? How did that come about? The fans are not that ones that had a vote of no confidence in McCarthy. I think if you read back through this topic you'll see that its not Waterford fans slagging McCarthty off but people from other counties :mad:

Waylander

Sorry Tonc you are correct, the fans have not been saying much. Iwas looking at posts earlier saying he had outstayed his welcome, and incorrectly (I think) guessed they were posts from Waterford fans. Sad to see this between a team and a manager that have worked together effectively over the years.

tonc76

It doesn't add up - why wait till last night with a vote of no confidence? Surely the time for that'd be before training for the league started? They have made the man's job untenable now after a miserable showing against Clare on Sunday and have only themselves to blame.

At the same time I don't want to paint the panel with the same brush but I think its the easiest option to point the finger rather than reflect inwards

Who knows a run through the qualifiers might be the thing that this team needs??

Changing horses mid race has never proved successful

KevIRL

premierstone wrote: »

Point taken Kev and i was being a bit harsh on the genuine fans but i was so incensed when i read this that i got a bit carried away, but i still think it is absolute madness to make mccarthy the scapegoat for this and an insult to a man that has done so much good for hurling in waterford and in general and quite honestly i think this could be a decision that waterford hurling will suffer as a result of and no-one wants that

I agree PS, like I said in an earlier post, I think its crazy. Changing manager mid championship is lunacy, and even moreso when its because of a player vote. The players have to take some responsibility for performances as well.

am heading off up to Walsh Park shortly for the under 21 game, I doubt any of the talk up there will about the u-21's tho!

KevIRL

tonc76 wrote: »

It doesn't add up - why wait till last night with a vote of no confidence? Surely the time for that'd be before training for the league started? They have made the man's job untenable now after a miserable showing against Clare on Sunday and have only themselves to blame.

At the same time I don't want to paint the panel with the same brush but I think its the easiest option to point the finger rather than reflect inwards

Who knows a run through the qualifiers might be the thing that this team needs??

Changing horses mid race has never proved successful

Agree totally Tonc. Either do it early in the year or after the championship.

only one time can i remember changing manager mid championship to be successdul and that was Offally in 1998. the year of the infamous replay v clare in the semi final

JHMEG

JMC brought a naturally talented team to where any manager with half a notion would have brought them. He lacked the ability to bring them any further, as has been shown year after year. This isn't being hard on him. It's the truth. He just doesn't have what it takes.

It's my view that he should have left when his original contract was up. He has potentially done hurling greats like Tony Browne, Paul Flynn, and others, an enormous dis-service. If you want a list of hurling legends that sadly don't have an AI medal between them, the Waterford team is the place to look. And it's not their fault.

As for Eoin Kelly. I'd really like to see that cleared up, as he's one of the more talented players in the country at the moment. And he entertains.

Mossy Monk

premierstone wrote: »

And i dont think any of the waterford fans have any right to call for he's head either seeing that they didnt bother their ar*e to even go to the game last sunday :mad:

I guess I have the right to an opinion as I was there :rolleyes:

I agree with you that this is absurd though. To get rid of a manager after the Championship has started is mental.

Daysha

Justin McCarthy has resigned as manager of the Waterford senior hurling team after tonights meetings of the county board in Walsh Park. Breaking news on WLRFM at the moment.

MrJoeSoap

Any word on a replacement?

Daysha

Not that I know of, but they're hardly going to go headhunting for a "big name" replacement mid-Championship are they? I'd love to see Donal Og Grady get the job but in this situation i'd imagine one of the selectors stepping in for the rest of the Championship at least. Possibly Seamie Hannon.

Kristopherus

Where to now for the Decies. Only one of their own will have anything to do with them . Sad to see Justin having to resign. IMHO he has done wonders for Waterford hurling. What intrigues me is what has been going on over the past few weeks in the camp.They looked a sad lot last Sunday once Clare got going. Must have been some rumblings. Anyone know anything?

tonc76

This is a disaster. Four weeks till next game and a the camp is in a mess.

Thanks to Justin for the success that he brought in the last 7 years

MrJoeSoap

Kristopherus wrote: »

Where to now for the Decies. Only one of their own will have anything to do with them . Sad to see Justin having to resign. IMHO he has done wonders for Waterford hurling. What intrigues me is what has been going on over the past few weeks in the camp.They looked a sad lot last Sunday once Clare got going. Must have been some rumblings. Anyone know anything?

According to todays Indo there were some rather "tasty" meetings on the warm-weather training trip to Portugal.

tonc76 wrote: »

Thanks to Justin for the success that he brought in the last 7 years

+1

Daysha

I don't know myself, but I'd love to hear what role Eoin Kelly played in all this. His antics the past few weeks may have been the catalyst for all this.

From what I heard, he had been effectively kicked off the panel, which was the main reason why he wasn't playing on Sunday. He had been missing a few training sessions, spent a few too many nights on the drink and missed the Portugal training camp after turning up late and then forgetting his passport.

There was obviously something not right between the two, and if players began seeing Kelly's side of things over Justins that could have set the whole thing off.

Again, im just speculating, but I do know for a fact he's been the vocal point of some serious discontent within the camp recently.

Kristopherus

deise59 wrote: »

I don't know myself, but I'd love to hear what role Eoin Kelly played in all this. His antics the past few weeks may have been the catalyst for all this.

From what I heard, he had been effectively kicked off the panel, which was the main reason why he wasn't playing on Sunday. He had been missing a few training sessions, spent a few too many nights on the drink and missed the Portugal training camp after turning up late and then forgetting his passport.

There was obviously something not right between the two, and if players began seeing Kelly's side of things over Justins that could have set the whole thing off.

Again, im just speculating, but I do know for a fact he's been the vocal point of some serious discontent within the camp recently.

The man has serious issues to address. As you all know, can be brilliant when he's on fire. But you could never bet on him being consistent.

2Scoops

Say what you like about player power gone mad, but if the players don't want him, regardless of how good he is/was, then little good will come of him hanging on. He made the right decision and walked away with his dignity intact.

Keano

Zzippy wrote: »

Some people have very short memories. Waterford were nowhere before he took over, he has had remarkable success with them. They were unlucky last year to meet a Limerick team full of confidence and who had more hard championship hurling under their belts than any other team. I think if they had won that game they could have beaten Kilkenny in the final.
One bad result and you're calling for his head!

Take yours point aboard about the Clare game but he failed to deliver an All-Ireland. The team is reaching the stage where they will start to loose their stars.

After 7 years in the job I can understand no doubt why the players got fed up. Training sessions generally become repetetive.

Same drills, same tactics etc

KevIRL

I'll just repeat my post from the Waterford forum.

Shocking that it came to this. The players behind this ousting should be ashamed.

What now for Waterford? At the Under 21 game last night in Walsh Park it was apparent there isnt a whole lot coming through in the short term anyway. Is 'player power' going to be the order of the day down here now? Will a manager be able to make any decisions without fear of another ousting?

So long Justin, and thank for everything, for the Munster titles, for the national title. We wont know just how good we had it until the bad times return.

As for the players, you have made your scapegoat now. Its a poor showing to try and hide behind your own poor performances and blame the manager like this, now its up to ye to up the game and prove yourselves again.

Its a black day for Waterford hurling

KevIRL

deise59 wrote: »

I don't know myself, but I'd love to hear what role Eoin Kelly played in all this. His antics the past few weeks may have been the catalyst for all this.

From what I heard, he had been effectively kicked off the panel, which was the main reason why he wasn't playing on Sunday. He had been missing a few training sessions, spent a few too many nights on the drink and missed the Portugal training camp after turning up late and then forgetting his passport.

There was obviously something not right between the two, and if players began seeing Kelly's side of things over Justins that could have set the whole thing off.

Again, im just speculating, but I do know for a fact he's been the vocal point of some serious discontent within the camp recently.

I dont think its right nor fair to speculating about an individual player like this on a public messageboard. I've no connection with Eoin Kelly, but that sort of stuff should be left in the gutter press where it belongs

bill_ashmount

Wow, I'm stunned. Bad time for this to happen.

KevIRL

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Take yours point aboard about the Clare game but he failed to deliver an All-Ireland. The team is reaching the stage where they will start to loose their stars.

After 7 years in the job I can understand no doubt why the players got fed up. Training sessions generally become repetetive.

Same drills, same tactics etc

Well mid championship is not the time to do it. Before (or even during the league) would have been a more apt time for players to air their grievences in such a public manner.

At the end of the day, the vast majority of the players did not perform last Sunday, granted the management should also shoulder some of the blame (some poor selection decisions, and lack of tactical changes at crucial times) but for the blame to be laid totally at the foot of the management like this is not right.

JHMEG

Mid-championship is better than it not happening at all, and having another season wasted. Onwards and upwards now. I see great things ahead for Waterford.

future_plans

JHMEG wrote: »

Mid-championship is better than it not happening at all, and having another season wasted. Onwards and upwards now. I see great things ahead for Waterford.

This year? Or in the long term?

God I wanted this team to win an AI. I'm not from Waterford but the Tony Brownes, Ken McGraths and Paul Flynns of this world deserve a medal as much as any anyone ever did. Maybe I was naive or just overly optimisic. Looking at it, they just do not have the panel of players (depth) to win an All Ireland and therefore need an awful lot of luck and things to go their way to win it. Justin did as much as anybody could do and would have again this year. But injuries took their toll and I suppose Waterford rode their luck to a certain degree to even do as well as they did in the last few years. This year they were unlucky and Justin for all his qualities is not a miracle worker.

I think it's time or a Deise reality check.

I wonder who were the 4 players who sided with Justin.

premierstone

JHMEG wrote: »

Mid-championship is better than it not happening at all, and having another season wasted. Onwards and upwards now. I see great things ahead for Waterford.

Are you serious?? Trust me, and i hope im wrong(but im not), this will be looked back on as one of the darkest days in Waterford Hurling and as Kev said earlier ye wont realise how good ye've had it the last 7 years untill the bad days return - no manager, an unhappy camp, an aeging team, no underage success of any note(de la salle apart) - why exactly do tou predict great things ahead?

topper75

Funny (not funny ha ha of course) that not very long ago all neutrals wished Waterford well. Has come full circle now. The players will get a comeuppance in the qualifiers I think. They gave so much to the game over recent summers. Shame.

Too much looking over the shoulder at prima donna soccer players across the pond I fear. The man is a gent. A real hurling man.

fricatus

I think the time had probably come for Justin to move on, just because I believe some new blood in the management team would be a good thing for the side.

However, the timing is all wrong, and the manner of his going is even worse! He's done a huge amount for Waterford hurling and the defeat against Clare was purely the players' fault, not the manager's. It's a disgrace that he's been forced out like this. They should have committed to one last big push with him this season - the qualifiers are the ideal way to build up momentum - and then part company on good terms (who knows after what success?) at the end of the season.

A sad day for Waterford hurling, but if Justin is wasting his time on boards.ie, well let me join the chorus of "thank yous" to him on this thread. He brought us some brilliant days out and he deserves our gratitude.

Cill Chainnigh

JHMEG wrote: »

JMC brought a naturally talented team to where any manager with half a notion would have brought them. He lacked the ability to bring them any further, as has been shown year after year. This isn't being hard on him. It's the truth. He just doesn't have what it takes.

It's my view that he should have left when his original contract was up. He has potentially done hurling greats like Tony Browne, Paul Flynn, and others, an enormous dis-service. If you want a list of hurling legends that sadly don't have an AI medal between them, the Waterford team is the place to look. And it's not their fault.

As for Eoin Kelly. I'd really like to see that cleared up, as he's one of the more talented players in the country at the moment. And he entertains.

I totally agree with this post. Waterford have had a very talented team for the last 10 years. This team had good underage success. With any half decent manager, this team would win Munster titles. With a good manager this team would easily have won an All-Ireland - a good manager would have knocked the cockiness out of players like Flynn & Eoin Kelly. Flynn has been unfit most of the last 7 years but still walks onto the team. I won't speak any further about Eoin Kelly, but I will say that anybody that knows anything about Waterford hurling could tell you a thing or two about Eoin Kelly.

Another point - the Waterford Supporters - they are the definition of sunshine supporters. The Premiership is now over, so they all head off to Thurles to support the Blaas. They are agrieved when the match is in Limerick because it is too far away and they don't have a clue where the stadium is. Last year, they got to the semi-final and were complaining that they could not get tickets. I asked many of the Waterford Supporters if they were a member of a GAA club and their response was to say that doesn't matter - they have been supporting Waterford in the sunshine weather for as long as they have living. All sports - rugby, soccer.....give tickets to meembers first.

In my opinion the players were wrong to vote no confidence against McCarthy. While I agree that McCarthy is not good enough for the job the timing is all wrong - this coulc have been sorted after the semi-final last year or even a few years ago.

Basically - the manager is not good enough, the players have a bad attitude and 80% of the supporters are not real GAA people

KevIRL

Cill Chainnigh wrote: »

Another point - the Waterford Supporters - they are the definition of sunshine supporters. The Premiership is now over, so they all head off to Thurles to support the Blaas. They are agrieved when the match is in Limerick because it is too far away and they don't have a clue where the stadium is. Last year, they got to the semi-final and were complaining that they could not get tickets. I asked many of the Waterford Supporters if they were a member of a GAA club and their response was to say that doesn't matter - they have been supporting Waterford in the sunshine weather for as long as they have living. All sports - rugby, soccer.....give tickets to meembers first.

Whoa! Do you want salt with that chip on your shoulder there Cill Chainnigh?

Thats a pretty sweeping statement to make 'Waterford Supporters'. I agree totally that there are some bandwagon or sunshine supporters, as there is in all counties. But not all Waterford Supporters are like u claim them to be.

By the way I agree with everything else you said about McCarthy being forced to resign. I just dont see why you had to be so bitter to go totally off the topic of the thread to take a swipe at Waterford Supporters. The vast majority of people I spoke to last night in Walsh Park at the under 21 match thought what was happening was wrong, and likewise any sensible Waterford Supporter as well.

Cill Chainnigh

I think somewhere in my post I said 80% of the supporters - I think think may be accurate

Mossy Monk

Show me some statistics to backup your 80% or STFU.

Cill Chainnigh

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Show me some statistics to backup your 80% or STFU.

Waterford can send 40,000 people to a game in Croke Park. How many people in Waterford are registered GAA members. I don't have the numbers but I am confident that it is less than 8,000.

premierstone

Cill Chainnigh wrote: »

a good manager would have knocked the cockiness out of players like Flynn & Eoin Kelly. Flynn has been unfit most of the last 7 years but still walks onto the team. I won't speak any further about Eoin Kelly, but I will say that anybody that knows anything about Waterford hurling could tell you a thing or two about Eoin Kelly.

But this is the problem CC what was he supposed to do drop flynn and kelly a few years ago, the truth is that waterford had a core of hurlers up there with any other county if not ahead of them but the strenght in depth has never been there they could never afford to ''make an example'' of guys like that because they knew there was no-one there to replace them, they simply dont have the conveyer belt that kilkenny have.