Building a Bose L1 beater.

slavedave

Bear with me, this is a genuine enquiry!
I am toying with the idea of making a line array system utilising multiple 2-3" drivers, in a similar vein to the Bose (except without the cost and hopefully incorporating better drivers). I will be using about 25-30 drivers for the mids/ highs (full range speakers) and will use a crossover to feed the column/amp and an additional active Sub.
My question is - where can you buy oem drivers in Ireland? I have been looking at Tang Band, Aurasound and generic drivers on the Bay shipped from the States. Parts Express have a great range of speakers spares too, but the shipping is scary. If I could get them from here (or possibly within Europe) then it would keep the costs down.
I must add that I had the use of a Bose L1 mkII system for a weekend and it fitted the application perfectly (vocals / acoustic instruments /speech in a highly reverberant Block and Steel gymnasium seating approx.150 people) and was much more intelligible than our current Fender Passport System. the spread of sound at a near constant volume front to rear in the building was, if I am honest, a bit of a pradigm shift in my understanding of how audio works and thus I have done a ton of research on the web re: line arrays and felt I could have a go at doing it myself.
Any pointers that you guys can offer is most welcome. Thanks in advance.

Savman

Do I understand you correctly that you want to build your own line array system? Are you for real? If so, I hope you really know what you're doing.

Please have a read of http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/34212/16950/ someone with the same idea as yourself, some very interesting responses from top pros who work with line arrays all the time.

Furthermore, it's a hot topic whether the Bose L1 is even considered to be a real "line array". More reading: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/6658/318921/16950/

Either way, good luck with the project :rolleyes:

-PhreaK

As Savman said you are probably being a little optimistic unless you have a physics degree, a fully kitted workshop, a fair wad of cash and a lot of time. Especially if you are planning a system that uses a bunch of smaller drivers you are going to have loads of phase issues which will ultimately decrease the clarity of your dispersion.

Line array's are most definitely the way of the future, however, If you are interested in building your own system I'd recommend looking into building a couple of main stacks along with some smaller delay box's and purchasing some delay units. This will help give you a more even level than a 2 point system.

slavedave

Yep, appreciate the comments. Will definitely not be building Line Arrays in the sense of huge megawatt, flying j-shaped jobs with delay lines etc. I am keen but not simple:D
Maybe LA's are the wrong definition (but it is what Bose use). Effectively, I will be using some very closely spaced, small drivers to simulate a single large sound source with wide horizontal dispersion characteristics. it is only going to run at 250-400 watts total, so very small scale indeed.
Phase problems will be there, oh yes. But I am hoping to keep them at the higher end of the spectrum and eq a little to "Tweak" the deficiencies of the system.
So any ideas of a supplier of small, efficient and cheap drivers?
Thanks for the input and keep it coming.

Savman

Curiosity is getting the better of me here. What's your intended use for this, an actual real world PA system?

Because Fender Passport to Bose to Line Array is not a natural progression by any means.

slavedave

The idea behind it is thus (highly specific application alert):

Room dimension(m): approx. 15w x 15d x 15h
Construction: Wood floor. Block Walls. Corrugated Metal roof.
Role: Sound reinforcement in weekly church service held in a School Gym.
Approx 150 adults seated (and occasionally standing) arranged in an arc facing the A/V screen and "da preacher".

Currently run a configuration of the following each Sunday.
Fender passport 250 as main PA/mixer/amp. Add an additional speaker (in series) to try to direct the sound onto the congregation rather than the walls etc.
Up to 2 acoustic guitars (ovation / Martin / Takamine / Lowden)
Stage Piano (usually direct in, sometimes DI'd if inputs allow- same with guitars)
Bodhran-mic straight into Fender.
Congas- usually acoustic but sometimes mic'd
Roland Handsonic for percussion / drums.
AKG radio mics (1 lavalier and 1 roving vocal)
2 AKG C1000s general purpose mics (usually for additional vocals)

As you can see, the Fender gives us all manner of grief with jiggling around the inputs if there are a few musos any given week. The sound is ok but the eq is a bit limited as is monitoring facilities. We don't need loads of power or mega bass output (yet!).
We deceided to upgrade the system with a desk and powered speakers and that's when I same across the BoseL1 (highly incidentally too). I was all set on smaller, multiples active speakers on stands around the congregation but the Bose seemed (on paper) a tidier solution when combined with a desk. One speaker only (H&S issues snipped in a shot cos less stands and speakers for the wee'uns to knock over). Compact unit - I store the PA at the moment and SWMBO is not always as happy with that arramgement as I am. ANd then there was the sound. After the first couple of bars of the first song one member of the masses who has sung a bit and is married to a higly competent musician leaned forward and told me "that sounds fantastic!". A good start, backed up by even more feedback like it afterwards. I could get a clearer, louder (more gain before feedback) and more balanced mix with it. Hey, I am no Bose fan- I always thought (and still do) that they are way overpriced but it did sound very tasty. Hence I thought that I would give it a lash at making my own. Acid test was one vocalist who is painfully quiet when speaking between songs and they were totally intelligible with the Bose. The ac guitars both sounded sweet and the Bodhran player even managed a smile when he found out that he could hear himself properly for the first time.

I am still not averse to trying alternative options either. This was the fist that we tried after using the Fender for a few years. Only problem is that few places would entertain the idea of loaning us a trial system to try out for a few weeks (understandably). I had looked at SRM450's, Alto units etc but no-one would give us a shot.
Currently running all the inputs through an alesis mixer and using the fender purely as a power amp

Hope that gives a bit more to go on. Savman, more than happy to talk about alternatives if you have the time to give it some thought.

Savman

No disrespect but sounds like a mess and a half. I'm sure your intentions are all good, but there is many ways to make life easier for yourself and everyone without building your own boxes.

You don't need to piece together your own attempt at complex line array technology, sounds like you just don't have enough rig for the gig.

A decent mixing desk, a Yamaha P5000S power amp and some EV ZX1's would be a far better option than what you're considering now. Just my 2c!

slavedave

Savman, you may well be right
The thing is that I will not commit to spending large amounts of money (that isn't mine!) on gear that may not be fit for purpose. Do you know anyone in Dublin that would loan out kit for a trial period prior to purchase?
What would I be looking at for the gear you listed (minus a desk - I have an alesis Multimix16FW and a Spirit FolioSX that can be enlisted for mixing duties) and where would you source them?
Really appreciate your input so far.

Savman

http://www.thomann.de/ie/ev_zx190.htm they are fast becoming the quintessential corporate/AV company tool. You should be able to rent (not loan) these from any decent audio visual company, but at that price they are pretty much a no brainer. You can always add sub(s) down the line and have a nice corporate system.

Also http://www.thomann.de/ie/yamaha_p5000s_endstufe.htm or any similar amp that'll properly power the boxes.

madtheory

Spend your money on some kind (any kind!) of absorption for that corrugated roof, and the floor. Curtains, quilts, anything please...

slavedave

I would if I could but it is a school hall by day and a community centre by night and we only rent it out on Sundays.
We have thought about bringing in some sort of acoustic treatment each week but the logistics of that are a nightmare. We have no storage space on site either so everything has to come in and leave with us. Best thing would be to fill the place with people first:D
Anyways, keep the ideas/suggestions a-coming. Thanks

unclebill98

I think your nuts trying to build boxs for something like that when there are far cheaper and much more sensible solutions out there.

You could hire out some gear to check it out before spending money. You'll find it much easier to go with 2 tops than trying the complex option of designing your own.

Take the advice above, you'll thank them for it.

PaulBrewer

unclebill98 wrote: »

I think your nuts trying to build boxs for something like that when there are far cheaper and much more sensible solutions out there.

.

Unless, of course, you are actually Nuts?

slavedave

"Wibble"

Apart from the EV's, does anyone have any further altenatives that I could try pursuing?

Savman

Not sure what you want out of this exercise Dave tbh. You seem to need nothing more than a budget church PA and your first idea is to try build your own! Bit nutty alright.