Banned for having an opinion

Freddie59

Travellers, and their activities, are a very hot topic in Waterford City at the moment (and have been for the past few years). To that end, several threads have been closed/locked in the Waterford City forum. Many of these have been for good reason, as suggestions made within were borderline, to say the least.

However, it appears that a conecreted effort is being made by a moderator on the forum to stifle ANY debate about traveller activities. For example, I have been bannded for my last statement in this thread. As other contributors on the thread have pointed out, banning someone for their opinion, or because you do not agree with them, is not the answer.

Others, who have used language, etc. have not been banned.

It will also not make the issue go away. It is sad that what appeared to be a reasonable discussion is being railroaded by the moderator concerned.

Sherifu

This should be good.

How many warnings do you need?

togster

Jesus i hate saying this but have you pm'd the mod?

Beruthiel

The Charter:

If you feel the need to go insulting the travelling community in Waterford, certain areas of Waterford, or certain people in Waterford (Add your own minorities to this list), whether it be using derogatory terms, insults, slurs, or the like, please expect a swift banning from the forum. We will notify you when your ban is to be up

You broke the rules of that forum, plain and simple.
Ban deserved.

Carsinian Thau

You weren't banned for having an opinion, you were banned for not reading the charter.
It's a subtle and important difference.
If you won't follow the rules, don't get cranky when you're not allowed to play.

6th

Freddie this is a privately owned site so you do not have the right to spout your opinion on anything you feel like. You could of course start your own forum and do what you like there. Its free and easy enough to set up.

Maximilian

"Banned for having an opinion"

If you're going to have a moan about being banned, then for the love of FSM, don't do it on false pretenses.

I've been reading up on these various Traveler threads and Sully is right to curb these discussions. If people can't discuss this issue in a civil manner, then such discussion should rightly be curtailed. Not to mention the personal grief he has received.

This thread doesn't even deserve catpix & I really don't think the OP deserves any sympathy.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Maximilian wrote: »

"This thread doesn't even deserve catpix.

Whoa... Lets not go crazy here!

Maximilian

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

Whoa... Lets not go crazy here!

There are alternatives.

Sherifu

Maximilian wrote: »

There are alternatives.

Why didn't Chris Doran win the Eurovision?

He was a bad traveller.

Dades

Freddie59 wrote: »

However, it appears that a conecreted effort is being made by a moderator on the forum to stifle ANY debate about traveller activities.

There's no such thing as a 'debate' on traveler activities - and everyone knows it.

The one thing I would offer, however, is that the thread should maybe have been closed before the banning stick was even unsheathed. It was on the road to nowhere from post #1.

Steve_o

Sherifu wrote: »

Why didn't Chris Doran win the Eurovision?

He was a bad traveller.

Ha:D

"Banned for having an opinion"....I love it!:pac:

RoundyMooney

Freddie, do you honestly think the Waterford forum is your own personal sandpit, that you can piss in with impunity?

It isn't, and if anything, the mod has been far too lenient with your whinging.

Suck it up, and be thankful it's not a longer ban.

togster

[IMG][/img]

Freddie59

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Freddie, do you honestly think the Waterford forum is your own personal sandpit, that you can piss in with impunity?

It isn't, and if anything, the mod has been far too lenient with your whinging.

Suck it up, and be thankful it's not a longer ban.

Duly sucked up. And thanks for all your opinions. But it is worth pointing out that I am not alone in raising issues with Sully's moderation. Indeed, two people took him to task over it in that thread. I have since received a PM from him lecturing about how tired he is of it and won't put up with it any longer.

And Dades, can you explain what you mean by There's no such thing as a 'debate' on traveler activities?

Does this means that there is some kind of protection afforded to travellers (and their activities) by boards.ie? If so, why is only one section of the community afforded this privilege?

Sully

Its simple. Iv asked countless times to quit with traveller bashing or leaving flamebait, people continued. Myself and Fajitas! discussed it (with other mods, and there is a thread already in Feedback on it) and decided to get stricter. One user was banned already in that thread and another user was close to it but withdrew the comment very quickly once he realsied his mistake.

You have been trouble in the last few months, and have 4 infractions on your portfolio. You broke the charter again and so you have been banned for it but this time for a period of a month. Take a break and come back when your willing to discuss within Boards Rules and the Forum Charter.

For those who think its PC madness - fair enough. But Boards.ie nor the mods on the Waterford Forum want any bashing of ANY particular group REGARDLESS. In recent weeks, not years, travellers has become an issue in the Waterford Forum as nobody can discuss it civily without making stupid remarks such as killing them all with flamethrowers.

Doctor DooM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Duly sucked up. And thanks for all your opinions. But it is worth pointing out that I am not alone in raising issues with Sully's moderation. Indeed, two people took him to task over it in that thread. I have since received a PM from him lecturing about how tired he is of it and won't put up with it any longer.

And Dades, can you explain what you mean by There's no such thing as a 'debate' on traveler activities?

Does this means that there is some kind of protection afforded to travellers (and their activities) by boards.ie? If so, why is only one section of the community afforded this privilege?

I would guess it's something along the lines of what happened in the soccer forum- if something degrades into a uncontrollable mess, the mods/ admins have to do something to stop it.

Oryx

Freddie59 wrote: »

Does this means that there is some kind of protection afforded to travellers (and their activities) by boards.ie? If so, why is only one section of the community afforded this privilege?

If you look around boards you will notice that controls of one kind or another are in place in every forum. They are not specifically in place to protect one particular segment of the population, they are in place to prevent threads descending into flame wars and to protect boards from any legal action from offended parties.

6th

Freddie59 wrote: »

Duly sucked up. And thanks for all your opinions. But it is worth pointing out that I am not alone in raising issues with Sully's moderation. Indeed, two people took him to task over it in that thread.

And they should be banned for questioning a mod decission in thread.

6th

Sully wrote: »

Boards.ie nor the mods on the Waterford Forum want any bashing of ANY particular group REGARDLESS.

QFT

Mr. Presentable

I read the thread, and don't see any "derogatory terms, insults, slurs, or the like"

Has it/they been deleted?

I have also read the charter for that forum, and with all due respect, I cannot see where it is violated.

I am not a mod of that or any other forum, but this smacks of protectionism, censorship and fear. The OP may, of course, have an antagonistic history, but it doesn't show in the thread concerned if at all.

Sully

Iv deleted those posts for being off-topic - they can discuss it here if they wish, but I wont have any further topics derailed in the forum. Its gone to a stage where we have been left with no choice but to get strict.

Mr. Presentable

Oryx wrote: »

If you look around boards you will notice that controls of one kind or another are in place in every forum. They are not specifically in place to protect one particular segment of the population, they are in place to prevent threads descending into flame wars and to protect boards from any legal action from offended parties.

In that case the correct procedure is to close the thread, no?

Mr. Presentable

Sully wrote: »

Iv deleted those posts for being off-topic - they can discuss it here if they wish, but I wont have any further topics derailed in the forum. Its gone to a stage where we have been left with no choice but to get strict.

If they're deleted that's fair enough. Hard for the OP to show his position though.

Sully

nipplenuts wrote: »

I read the thread, and don't see any "derogatory terms, insults, slurs, or the like"

Has it/they been deleted?

Yes, other posters have had those comments removed. Freddie has always been borderline but constantly bashes the group in a "friendly way" but bashing of ANY kind wont be tollerated. It went way out of hand and it was decided to add to the charter and start enforcing it.

I have also read the charter for that forum, and with all due respect, I cannot see where it is violated.

I am not a mod of that or any other forum, but this smacks of protectionism, censorship and fear. The OP may, of course, have an antagonistic history, but it doesn't show in the thread concerned if at all.

Its already been quoted what part of the charter was broken. He was making retarted remarks about the group and its just one of many issues that have decided its time he took a break.

Nothing like censorship or fear - its called having respect.

faceman

Although i dont necessarily agree with a total ban on discussion of a hot topic such as the travelling community, on boards it never ends up being a mature sensible debate so I can understand the need.

Hats off to Sully though for his moderation. I much prefer to see offending comments deleted rather than just banning and leaving said offensive comments there. Its like rubbing salt in a wound in some cases.

Sully

Id prefer we didnt have a total ban but it came to a stage where no thread even slightly concerning travellers someone had to make a comment about it all. Warnings were issued plenty of times and people just kept pushing it. I hate having to issue bans or close threads or watever - we should be all able to get on fine, stick to the rules and carry on having a great discussion like every forum should be like. Ya your gonna get a few bad eggs or watever but I hate having to come to a decission where its gone so bad we have to start enforcing the guidelines.

But, its life. Its a private forum, we cant all say what we want and its unfair to make comments about a particular group like has been paid in past threads. If we could just agree to this and move on, there are plenty of things we can talk about.

Freddie59

Sully wrote: »

Yes, other posters have had those comments removed. Freddie has always been borderline but constantly bashes the group in a "friendly way" but bashing of ANY kind wont be tollerated. It went way out of hand and it was decided to add to the charter and start enforcing it.



Its already been quoted what part of the charter was broken. He was making retarted remarks about the group and its just one of many issues that have decided its time he took a break.

Nothing like censorship or fear - its called having respect.

Sully - respect is a two-way street. Your response towards a poster who dares to question your moderation is proof enough for me. And also - if you're addressing me in a pm please try to be civil - as I do with you.

Hagar

Freddie59 wrote: »

But it is worth pointing out that I am not alone in raising issues with Sully's moderation. Indeed, two people took him to task over it in that thread.

Posters have no business taking mods to task on thread. Who gave you or they the right to do that? The correct procedure is via PM or Feedback. Warning should be issued for that type of behaviour. If posters fail to take heed of the warning a week's holiday would bring home the message.

Gandalf23

Sully wrote: »

Id prefer we didnt have a total ban but it came to a stage where no thread even slightly concerning travellers someone had to make a comment about it all. Warnings were issued plenty of times and people just kept pushing it. I hate having to issue bans or close threads or watever - we should be all able to get on fine, stick to the rules and carry on having a great discussion like every forum should be like. Ya your gonna get a few bad eggs or watever but I hate having to come to a decission where its gone so bad we have to start enforcing the guidelines.

But, its life. Its a private forum, we cant all say what we want and its unfair to make comments about a particular group like has been paid in past threads. If we could just agree to this and move on, there are plenty of things we can talk about.

This has to be one of the most sensible things I've ever read from a mod in a feedback thread. Well done man ... excellent moderating in a difficult situation.

I have one question though ... if the charter changes because of something like this, are regular posters given notice of the changes? Seems sorta unfair to ban someone because of a very new amendment to the charter. I definitely dont read the charter everytime I post in a particular forum. Or should I?????

Sully

I didnt add that to the charter, it was the other forum mod so ill leave him pass comment on that question. I support the addition to the charter and we have discussed in depth on how we should handle the comments rasied in Feedback and troublesome users and topics. Its going to cause trouble, we cant please everyone but at the same time - we cant allow such comments like that be passed around. Its not fair and its not on. If you cant debate sensibly, dont debate at all.

Mr. Presentable

Sully wrote: »

Iv deleted those posts for being off-topic - they can discuss it here if they wish, but I wont have any further topics derailed in the forum. Its gone to a stage where we have been left with no choice but to get strict.

A suggestion, and not just for you, when posts are deleted perhaps a marker could be left where they had been so as to complete the picture. Or replace the text in the post with "offensive content removed" or similar.

Sully

nipplenuts wrote: »

A suggestion, and not just for you, when posts are deleted perhaps a marker could be left where they had been so as to complete the picture. Or replace the text in the post with "offensive content removed" or similar.

Mods of the forum, Cmods and Smods can see the deleted posts, but we try and prevent editing of posts. Either leave or delete usually..

Freddie59

Sully wrote: »

Mods of the forum, Cmods and Smods can see the deleted posts, but we try and prevent editing of posts. Either leave or delete usually..

Sully, can you explain - specifically - why I was banned?

trishw78

The Charter wrote:

If you feel the need to go insulting the travelling community in Waterford, certain areas of Waterford, or certain people in Waterford (Add your own minorities to this list), whether it be using derogatory terms, insults, slurs, or the like, please expect a swift banning from the forum. We will notify you when your ban is to be up

If I'm understanding this correctly. Nobody can any longer discuss Mr. McCann or the Ferrybank situation. If this is so I think you'll find the forum is about tho become very very quite.

Freddie59

Freddie59 wrote: »

Sully, can you explain - specifically - why I was banned?

On a serious note, if you had 4 infractions and you broke the rules again a ban is deserved imho

Freddie59

trishw78 wrote: »

If I'm understanding this correctly. Nobody can any longer discuss Mr. McCann or the Ferrybank situation.

Sadly it appears so Trish.

Freddie59

KaG1888 wrote: »

On a serious note, if you had 4 infractions and you broke the rules again a ban is deserved imho

How droll. I asked for specifics on this ban and haven't been provided with them - as a matter of plain courtesy. Of course, people have pointed out that I probably shouldn't have been banned in the first instance - thus the reason for the lack of explanation?

6th

You didnt go complaining about your other 4 infractions and now you are surprised with a ban? With 4 infractions I would have perma banned you.

Sully

Sorry was away all day on business.

To address some points:
- If someone questions how I moderate in any of the forums I moderate, I ask that they take it to Feedback or PM. Its standard policy for mods, and I agree with it. Iv deleted the posts as they are off-topic and at the same time publicly stated the topic was cleaned and why. So there isnt any secrerts.

- Your specific reason for the ban was issued in the PM that is sent automatically during the infraction process. I have also stated in this thread why you were banned and why it was lengthy.

- Brendan McCann and Ferrybank discussions are completely unrelated to this conversation at all. Neither of which have connections or are travellers. Discussion about Brendand McCann has always remained civil and rarley is a problem compared to discussion about travellers. Ferrybank is very very rarley discussed and yes anti-KK ****e has always been banned as per requests from the site admins. Well before my time as mod.

I have remained civil Freddy apart from informing you to cop the **** on or you wont be coming back and that I am tired of your ****e. 4 infractions, public warnings ignored = month ban. Due to the way you spoke with me during occasions when I gave you those 4 infractions you were far from civil and hence why I placed you on ignore. Your lucky you were not banned long ago, but I put up with it because often you are a good poster.

mikedragon32

Freddie59 wrote: »

How droll. I asked for specifics on this ban and haven't been provided with them - as a matter of plain courtesy. Of course, people have pointed out that I probably shouldn't have been banned in the first instance - thus the reason for the lack of explanation?

Sod'o swords

I am very disappointed with the handling of this thread....


To date i only see 4 pics!!
Only one of which contains cats!

Freddie59

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Very original. Take you long to think that one up?:D

Freddie59

Sully wrote: »

Sorry was away all day on business.

To address some points:
- If someone questions how I moderate in any of the forums I moderate, I ask that they take it to Feedback or PM. Its standard policy for mods, and I agree with it. Iv deleted the posts as they are off-topic and at the same time publicly stated the topic was cleaned and why. So there isnt any secrerts.

- Your specific reason for the ban was issued in the PM that is sent automatically during the infraction process. I have also stated in this thread why you were banned and why it was lengthy.

- Brendan McCann and Ferrybank discussions are completely unrelated to this conversation at all. Neither of which have connections or are travellers. Discussion about Brendand McCann has always remained civil and rarley is a problem compared to discussion about travellers. Ferrybank is very very rarley discussed and yes anti-KK ****e has always been banned as per requests from the site admins. Well before my time as mod.

I have remained civil Freddy apart from informing you to cop the **** on or you wont be coming back and that I am tired of your ****e. 4 infractions, public warnings ignored = month ban. Due to the way you spoke with me during occasions when I gave you those 4 infractions you were far from civil and hence why I placed you on ignore. Your lucky you were not banned long ago, but I put up with it because often you are a good poster.

Ah, nice to see your true colours showing Sully - for once. The animosity felt by you towards me on public display.;) Imagine the ban I would have imposed for spewing out the above.

This is your reason for banning me:

You have been banned from the forum for one month for breaking the forum charter, again. Iv stated several times about traveller discussion and bashing, and since this is your second offense I think its time you took a long break.

Where did I break the charter? Several people were discussing travellers, but you only banned one. The OP on the thread wasn't me BTW.

humanji

Jesus titty f*cking christ, what are you smoking?

Freddie59

humanji wrote: »

Jesus titty f*cking christ, what are you smoking?

Probably the same as you.

Hagar

Dig up Freddie, dig up.

The Artist

well fred

Sully

In that thread in question one person spoke about travellers and was banned. Nobody else did. And when I mean "discussed" i mean in the unfriendly attitude (whether it be just a tad bit over the line, or completely over the line). Anyway, there hasnt been any further discussion about travellers and the topic was locked earlier today.

The exact charter rule you broke has already been quoted by an SMod in this topic.

BlaasForRafa

Sully wrote: »

there hasnt been any further discussion about travellers.

Is that a good thing though?

Should a whole section of society be set apart from any criticism or discussion?

Bob the Builder

Sully wrote: »

In that thread in question one person spoke about travellers and was banned. Nobody else did. And when I mean "discussed" i mean in the unfriendly attitude (whether it be just a tad bit over the line, or completely over the line). Anyway, there hasnt been any further discussion about travellers and the topic was locked earlier today.

The exact charter rule you broke has already been quoted by an SMod in this topic.

Not all travellers are bad. At least when we're talking about young people, most sensible decent posters recognise that the majority of youth are respectible people, but when it comes to the travellers, they are generally all tarnished with the same brush, therefore making the argument unreasonable and turning it into a hatefest.

I must say that I support Sully's decision regarding the above and until people start discussing the subject using statistics and facts rather than stereotypes, I believe the 'issue' should be curtailed slightly.

I am on neither side on this discusion, but I am someone who is familiar with these debates, and moreso verbal debates. I did one before with a group of other people on the more or less same issue. It started brutally with everyone quoting experiences and creating BS to sound good, but eventually turned into a brilliant debate with excellent outcomes. Until this happens on Boards, discussions will not be productive in the least.