A cool type of relationship?

honru

So what do you guys think?

There is a guy, Stephane, who teaches "Interdependent Circle" relationships, a dynamic that involves one man, and 2 or 3 'bisexual' women. They live together, are loyal to each other, and they seem to be really happy and in love. I'm very intruiged.

Stephane claims that an Interdependent Circle is the most advanced relationship dynamic possible in the human domain, because everyone involved must be willing to face their own ego programming and learn to let it go, and surrender it to God.

He also states that this is the most humbling relationship experience he's ever had, because living with 2-3 women creates a context in which every relationship/ego "issue" is triggered, and rises to the surface. He says that most of our ego programming is unconscious, and that he has found that Circle relationships tend to trigger a lot of our in-born ego issues.

For example, everyone in the "Circle" will be very prone to feeling jealousy and possessiveness, which is inherent to human ego programming. He says that especially for women, fear of abandonment is built-in biologically, therefore jealousy, etc. can be very difficult (but not impossible) to overcome.

He claims that jealousy, etc. can be transformed into unconditional love if the person is willing to spend time observing their mind in meditation, and ultimately, surrendering it to God.

He says that he doesn't experience jealousy, mostly because there are no men in the Circle, but that his main ego issue was that of Pride, and he had to work hard on becoming humble, and resist the urge to shove it in people's faces that he has several pretty girls. He also had to work on possessiveness issues, because when you have several girlfriends, you tend to REALLY want to keep them in your life. Apparently he worked very hard on surrendering the fear of losing the girls. He says, "The girls don't belong to me, and I do not belong to them. We each belong to God, and only He can ever possess them. One must be willing to surrender the relationship to God at each moment of each day, with every breath one takes. If someone decides it's time to leave a relationship.. you have to be humble about it and be willing to honor their choice to leave. And being needy is probably the biggest turn off for women, so I worked extremely hard on overcoming neediness. It was not easy, but it was worth it. Besides, if I had even one ounce of neediness, it would poison the whole Circle, the women would begin losing trust in me, and everything would fall apart!"

INTERESTING!

Interdependent Circles.. He says he learned about Interdependence primarily from Steven Covey, author of "The 7 Habits".

Interdependence means the following, according to Stephane:

"When one can transcend the lower emotions such as shame, anger, pride, jealousy, envy, fear of abandonment, etc. (i.e. the lower self, or ego) and makes the decision to open the heart, open to unconditional love and compassion, and begin to take full responsibility for one's emotions & behaviors, and replace the lower emotions with the firm decision to be 100% HUMBLE and accountable at all times, the typical issues of co-dependency and insecurity begin to (slowly, slowly) dissolve."

He says, "One then becomes Independent, and opens to God's love. When God's love touches one's heart on a deep level, one no longer feels separate from God, and one no longer feels dependent on others for love.

The first stage is Dependence on "others" for love, joy, happiness. The second stage is Independence, where one turns to God for fulfillment, rather than on other human beings.

Now, when a human being reaches this level, only then are they going to be able to have a happy, integrous, fulfilling relationship with another human being. Only then will they experience 100% drama-free union and join at the heart.

When two (or three or four!) INDEPENDENT human beings decide to join forces and start an intimate relationship, they then move to the next level, INTER-DEPENDENCE. And the wikipedia definition on Interdependence is pretty solid -

Interdependence is a dynamic of being mutually responsible to and sharing a common set of principles with others. This concept differs distinctly from "dependence" in that an interdependent relationship implies that all participants are emotionally, economically, and/or morally "interdependent." Some people advocate freedom or independence as a sort of ultimate good; others do the same with devotion to one's family, community, or society. Interdependence recognizes the truth in each position and weaves them together. Two people in a good relationship are said to be interdependent.It can also be defined as the interconnectedness and the reliance on one another socially, economically, environmentally and politically."

Stephane lives with two 'bisexual' women right now, he has been with his first girlfriend, Ghita, for almost four years, and they have been with a second girl, Greta, for almost one year, in a "Circle" as they call it.

According to Stephane, "The term 'Circle' is just my way of avoiding the word 'triangle', which seems to imply jealousy, and even deception, as well as the assumption that jealousy and insecurity are something we humans are stuck with no matter what we do. The girls and I are not perfect or fully enlightened, we still work on ourselves daily with meditation, intention, prayer, contemplation, and surrendering to God. We've come a long way over the years, and have an extremely close and intimate bond that you would probably have to see to believe."

When asked, "Why only women? Is it fair? Do you allow MEN to join your Circle?" he says that he will never allow men to be in his Circle, not because of jealousy, but simply because he isn't gay or bisexual.

He states, "Bisexual women (typically) do not want to be with gay men, which usually implies feminine men. Bisexual women seem to be very yin/yang balanced themselves, and so they will attract men that are also balanced.

Now, once we "balanced ones" join as a 'Circle', I take on a more masculine role (active, decisions, leadership, providing, etc. just like in the good 'ol days) and they then feel safe and protected enough to relax into their feminine side (dancing, playing, emotions, passivity, etc.).

This is called Sexual Polarity. Of course, we all are *equals* and I always take their feelings into account when I lead and make decisions and so on, but we seem have much more fun when I take on a 'Daddy' role, and they play a more feminine, 'mommy' role.

Simply put, we have learned from our own experiences that when a man acts like a man, and women act like women (as long is there is real honesty, trust, and respect!) this helps to keep the attraction and sexual tension alive. I have been with Ghita almost 4 years now, and we're still very sexually attracted to each other. And one year with Greta, and the attraction is also still very high. I suspect that I will be attracted to them for the rest of my life, as long as we maintain the polarity.

We don't take the "man/woman mommy and daddy" roles very seriously, we just *play* these roles and it's a lot of fun. We are spiritual equals, but we are not equals on a physical, biological level. We are complimentary opposites. We honor the bodies God gave us. I'm a man, so I'm not going to start asking the women to lead me and protect me. And they don't try to act like men, they want to feel like women."

When asked, "Why 2 or 3 girls, is not one woman ENOUGH to satisfy you?" he replies, "Why would I have two cats, or three children, or four cars? You see, one human or 100 humans cannot satisfy someone, they must learn to satisfy themselves. A woman's heart is so immense that the whole world couldn't fulfill it. True fulfillment comes from God, and only God. True Love is a blessing from Divinity, and must be respected as such. Again, people must become Independent before they can claim Interdependence. Your question comes from a dependent or "co-dependent" paradigm, you see.

Now, naturally when you ask a woman if she would like to bring you another woman or two, you're going to have problems! You will be sleeping on the couch tonight!

Not only does she first need to be VERY 'bisexual', but she will need to understand that a Circle... although the sex is awesome... there is much more to it than just your desire for the american dream of having a threesome.

Sex is just one aspect to human relationships. There is also an emotional/intellectual aspect (someone to listen to you, someone to lean on, someone to laugh and learn with, etc.) and there is also a spiritual aspect to relationships.

To me, I'm not just into relationships because I need to get laid and kill the loneliness. I have relationships because they teach me about myself in a most humbling and spiritual way. My current spiritual goals are to embody unconditional love and compassion, and to open to God. So there is a spiritual aspect to relationsips as well, assuming one has spiritual aspirations like we do.

If a woman is very 'bisexual', and wants to learn everything she can about the three aspects of relationships (physical, emotional/intellectual, and spiritual), only then should one suggest an Interdependent Circle.

To qualify as a man, you have to be able to help blossom open the heart of ONE girl before you attempt this with three! Your relationship has to be "almost perfect" before you bring in more women. I tell couples that their relationship has to be soooo good that they feel almost selfish for not sharing what they have with other women. How many couples can say THAT with a straight face?

Now, in the context of Interdependent Circles, you better believe that all parties involved are going to learn learn learn. It is like an accellerated learning program. I have learned more in this context about women, about myself, about ego, emotions, spirituality, and so on than I would have in a regular two-person couple relationship."

He also states that Circles are the highest level of relationship possible in the known world.

"Look - I'm not saying that Circles are better, or more valued in the eyes of God than say, getting married is. Married couples serve God just as much as we do. A plumber serves God just as much as the Saint does.

What I am saying is that Circles are higher-consciousness than regular relationships. Why? Simply because this type of relationship is exponentially more challenging and difficult to manage, because it triggers more of the ego than normal relationships do. It took me over fifteen years to figure out how Circles can be built and maintained, and I'm still learning new things, daily.

By analogy, parenting one child is difficult and challenging, but parenting two or three kids will present many more challenges, exponentially. This doesn't mean that having more kids is "better", it's just different.

Since this is more challenging, this means that there is more to learn, and therefore higher-consciousness. Simple mathematics! And again, the number 50 is not "better" than the number 25."

Please post your comments, opinions, and questions. He asked me and a few others to do this, and would like to get people's first, gut-level reactions to the idea of Circles.

johnnyskeleton

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

So what do you guys think?



Please post your comments, opinions, and questions. He asked me and a few others to do this, and would like to get people's first, gut-level reactions to the idea of Circles.

If you are a man and he is saying "Hey buddy you gotta try this" then go for it, and if you can find a few hot young ladies to experiment with you, great.

If you are a woman and he is asking you to be one of his wives, I'd be very suspicous. I'd also be suspicous becuase he is advocating a spiritual side to it. I'd also ask him which "God" he does this for, because it is unlikely to be Christian.

aidan24326

Ok except for the god nonsense.

Earthhorse

Y'know, it's kinda funny, I'd agree with most of what he says (except I would replace the word God with universe or something) but when he says this:

Stephane wrote:

There is a guy, Stephane, who teaches "Interdependent Circle" relationships, a dynamic that involves one man, and 2 or 3 'bisexual' women.

I have to admit I'm suspicious. There is no reason why one can't obtain similar levels of conciousness as part of a couple or indeed on your own. You can have conciousness, right now, reading this post and I can have conciousness, right now, writing it. Now, perhaps being in this "interdependence" relationship would be a prompt to be in that state more often and more deeply but it is honestly not needed.

I would also be suspicious of his comments regarding allowing homosexuals into the relationship. It is fine that he does not want to do this in his own one but it seems like he is laying down the law for others too. He describes homosexuals as feminine and therefore not attractive to female bisexuals as if there were only one type of homosexual and one type of female bisexual.

Finally, I would say that the arrangement is dangerously close to cultish in it's make up.

You have met this guy face to face? Fill is in on the background, fs, give us some context. You seem like a pretty together guy. Tread carefully.

Nevyn

Polyweb relationships or harem relationships are nothing new.

Earthhorse

What about ones that explicitly exclude homosexuals and claim to bring about higher states of conciousness?

honru

Earthhorse wrote: »

I would also be suspicious of his comments regarding allowing homosexuals into the relationship. It is fine that he does not want to do this in his own one but it seems like he is laying down the law for others too. He describes homosexuals as feminine and therefore not attractive to female bisexuals as if there were only one type of homosexual and one type of female bisexual.

I don't think he is "laying down the law", it's just a dynamic he happens to like. I'm sure a circle featuring bisexual men and women can work as long as there is a strong sexual polarity in place.

Earthhorse

Not laying down the law perhaps but drawing broad generalistions about people with respect to their sexuality:

Stephane wrote:

He states, "Bisexual women (typically) do not want to be with gay men, which usually implies feminine men. Bisexual women seem to be very yin/yang balanced themselves, and so they will attract men that are also balanced.

Anyway, a quick google reveals this has gone up on several other forums in the recent past. Don't know why you edited out the link to his website: http://www.ideagasms.net/about-ideagasms/.

Care to fill us in on the background or is this just spam?

MCMLXXXIII

Hmmm... What happens if one of the women want to break up with the guy? How do they split the stuff?

What if a woman wants the opposite? One woman and two or three bisexual males?

Is there going to be a schedule as to who needs to clean the bathroom, and when?

Maybe I haven't reached this spiritual state yet, but it seems like too much of a hassle - just not worth it. If you can be happy with one person, why do you need to be happier with three? It states at the bottom that it is much more challenging, and creates many more problems. How is that happier?

Personally, I have felt enlightened. I have felt so happy with someone, that I have stopped looking at anyone else. I just don't even see them as they walk by. I couldn't imagine myself with anyone else, let alone going out and recruiting for my household.

I just seems like a far-right-wing capitalistic way of "deregulating" women and making sure the man ends up with the best one he can get - meanwhile using religion and the belief in God to make it all seem okay.

drunkmonkey

Brilliant idea but where can I pick up 3 bisexual women willing to share me and stay loyal to me?

The book of EST by George Cockcroft is well worth trying to get your hands on if your into this......pity Irish women weren't:D

Zulu

They suffer jellousy; he suffers what?? Pride - in that it's really hard not to rub it in peoples noses???

I don't buy it. I might have given it some taught if he challenged himself with having another male there. He could then overcome jealousy and the alpha-male issue, which I believe would be a hurdle similar to what the ladies have to overcome.

He's a good old fashioned charlatan.

kreuzberger

apart from the God stuff , although Id probably be shouting out Oh God , Oh Jesus Oh Holy mother Mary if I was getting it on with 2 or 3 chicks who were getting it on with each other too , it would be fun for a while but not for a permanent realtionship . I wouldnt want my childrens mother to be a lezzy sex freak the whole countryside was gossiping about .

honru

Zulu wrote: »

They suffer jellousy; he suffers what?? Pride - in that it's really hard not to rub it in peoples noses???

I believe the context he is reffering to for "Pride", since he is using a capitalised "P", is a "conciousness level" coined by David Hawkins.

It's basically a defensive and vunerable stage as it is dependent on external conditions (ie. two-to-three girlfriends), without which it can revert to a lower level. I presume this is what he had to work on.

Zombrex

I've only seen a few documentaries on these types of relationships, but it always seems that the man speaks for the women, tell how they really enjoy the situation, have over come jealous and all the "negative emotions" (why do we find so much new age nonsense in these types of relationships), but when you actually see the women they are emotional wrecks who appear to be just going along with what ever the man wants out of fear they will be kicked out of the group.

These things always remind me of cults.

So, while there isn't nearly enough info to determine if that is the case here, I would always hold my suspicions until the women actually put forward their honest point of view.

po0k

Socio-regressive bollox.

Sherifu

Computer says no.

Zulu

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

I believe the context he is reffering to for "Pride", since he is using a capitalised "P", is a "conciousness level" coined by David Hawkins.

It's basically a defensive and vunerable stage as it is dependent on external conditions (ie. two-to-three girlfriends), without which it can revert to a lower level. I presume this is what he had to work on.

Well as I haven't read David Hawkins, I can only take it at the literal meaning.

Wicknight wrote: »

I've only seen a few documentaries on these types of relationships, but it always seems that the man speaks for the women, tell how they really enjoy the situation, have over come jealous and all the "negative emotions" (why do we find so much new age nonsense in these types of relationships), but when you actually see the women they are emotional wrecks who appear to be just going along with what ever the man wants out of fear they will be kicked out of the group.

These things always remind me of cults.

+1

honru

Zulu wrote:

Well as I haven't read David Hawkins, I can only take it at the literal meaning.

You're welcome. :pac:

Wicknight wrote: »

but when you actually see the women they are emotional wrecks who appear to be just going along with what ever the man wants out of fear they will be kicked out of the group.

Yeah, it can be quite common. "Survival" fears get triggered pretty quickly.

McGinty

I don't buy it. I might have given it some taught if he challenged himself with having another male there. He could then overcome jealousy and the alpha-male issue, which I believe would be a hurdle similar to what the ladies have to overcome.

Here, here, I agree with this statement, if a circle of this type offered the chance for the women to take on and bring in male lovers then it may have some chance because both sexes have equality. Although I personally read it as a spiritual gloss on having one's cake and eating it. The 'Circle' uses godtalk to legitimise an inequal and unfair sexual relationship, the man has his posse of bi-sexual ladies, the ladies fight for his attention, it is in my opinion very ego bound.

Kama

A Tantric swami I once knew told a story like this, but a little different.

Essentially, he watched as his best friend had pretty intimate congress with his One True Love of the time, as an exercise to bring forth egoic jealousy, so he could deal directly with it, to build non-attached love, or to see the generally shallow and conditional nature of what we tend to call love.

Apparently it worked.

This sounds a little bit less selfless tho...Classic male harem dynamic with a spiritual overlay. Ask him if a few of us rowdy males can join in to further his spiritual evolution would be my 2c.

iguana

Zulu wrote: »

They suffer jellousy; he suffers what?? Pride - in that it's really hard not to rub it in peoples noses???

I don't buy it. I might have given it some taught if he challenged himself with having another male there. He could then overcome jealousy and the alpha-male issue, which I believe would be a hurdle similar to what the ladies have to overcome.

He's a good old fashioned charlatan.

On the other hand, contrary to pop-cultural belief I think many men would not actually be all that happy about a woman they love being in love with and having sex with another woman. I think if most men considered it honestly the thought of their girlfriend/wife having better, more pleasurable sex with anyone, male or female, than they do with them would be devastating. In a relationship consisting of 2 or 3 bisexual women and 1 heterosexual man there is no reason why there wouldn't be a primary emotional and sexual connection between the women, with the man in a periphery role.

That this Stephane guy doesn't even seem consider these possibilities makes it clear that he is not talking about actual bisexual women. And the fact that he continually puts the word bisexual in quotation marks is also pretty telling.:rolleyes:

Gemini Sister

I agree with what iguana says.

Also, as someone with a little bit of experience of 'love triangles' (much less exotic I know), I would suggest that they guy is actually denying himself falling in love with anyone. His need for what all this women give him means he can hide from a genuine relationship (a layer of waffle helps him hide too). He's afraid of intimacy. Not much enlightment going on there I'm afraid, or any real challenge to ego.

Now don't get me started on the women... (but I reckon he doesn't aim far out of his league )

ChocolateSauce

aidan24326 wrote: »

Ok except for the god nonsense.

What s/he said.

Blackhorse Slim

Meh. No different to Mormon polygamy.

kowloon

Think I'll hold off on this until I get the one woman thing sorted first.