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Most likely club to break top four?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    lol, what? the team who led the table for half of last season? surely Liverpool with their ownership mess and non activity (so far anyway) in the transfer front would be a better candidate. Or Chelsea, the team that's without a manager and seemingly about to be broken down and shipped out like flatpack furniture...

    It is a bold statement of behalf of the Nun but I think he may be onto something. It is unlikely but his logic is reasonable enough, i.e. they have a small squad and injuries could hit them hard and they seems to have already lost 2 of their starting 11. Before they even start adding to the team, they have go about replacing 2 players that were integral to their season.

    As I said though, it is unlikely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,372 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    Sounds like last summer all over again.

    Arsenal were much closer to winning the league than finishing 5th, and Spurs finished in the bottom half. Didn't think that would stop people make the same prediction again though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    they have a very strong spine to their team and are just two or three big signings away from a title challenge imo

    after hearing that every single summer since the premiership started, youll excuse me if i have a little snigger

    top 3 will remain the same, 4th depends on liverpool really


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    I really don't think it would happen but some people seem to be of the opinion that there is a massive gap between Arsenal and Liverpool based on the fact that Arsenal seemed to be in contention for league with 8 matches left whereas Liverpool were out of it by Christmas.

    In my opinion, while I feel that Arsenal were that bit better than Liverpool last season, I firmly believe that the "Arsenal had a better season because they were still in contention come April" argument is nonsense. Liverpool appeared to be out of it by Christmas because of a series of draws in a handful of fixtures. IIRC, with 3 or 4 games left to go in the season a large majority of the fixtures that Arsenal drew in the closing quarter of the seasons were the same that Liverpools stumbled.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Unearthly wrote: »
    I would say Citeh if they spend lots of money and get a good manager.

    Thats true of any team though.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    In my opinion, while I feel that Arsenal were that bit better than Liverpool last season, I firmly believe that the "Arsenal had a better season because they were still in contention come April" argument is nonsense. Liverpool appeared to be out of it by Christmas because of a series of draws in a handful of fixtures. IIRC, with 3 or 4 games left to go in the season a large majority of the fixtures that Arsenal drew in the closing quarter of the seasons were the same that Liverpools stumbled.

    would Liverpool have been in the same position if they had both Babel and Kuyt missing for half the season? for all the talk of Arsenal having a tiny squad, they were hit by injuries the worst of all the top 4 and were still able to mount a title challenge... people seem to forget this...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭taidghbaby


    Qpr


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Villa or Man City, Villa have astute management in MON & Randy Lerner, Man City have essentially all the money they need (dripping in blood obviously:rolleyes:) and new found clout and confidence to think big,either way both will have to wait for one of the top 4 (Liverpool) to stumble, shouldnt be too much longer now...

    Spurs had their chance but they are just returning to their normality(11th & a cup win) Ramos may be the saviour to take them to the promised land, but for as long as ive been a football fan Spurs always talk big and then bomb, i see no reason why this time it will be different. Everton are at their peak right now but without substantial investment on the horizon they are surely unlikely to keep pace season after season in the top 6 and what David Moyes does next will probably be the key determinant in what happens to Everton over the next few years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭el rabitos


    sure any of man city, spurs, everton and the like could finish in the top 4 any one season

    thats not he same as breaking into the top 4. the current "top 4" are not going to be broken in any sustained way anytime soon i reckon. it would take an implosion from the top to the bottom to initiate that kinda change

    the current top 4 are going to be the most attractive destination for all the top players for years to come and i dont see that changing, unfortunate as that is for entertainment value, competativeness and making the league interesting in general.

    liverpool, man utd and arsenal are in the top 4 because they've done things the right way for a long long time, investing properly, hiring good personel, being patient, making the most of their assets etc...

    man city, spurs, everton and the the rest havent done that over such a sustained period to be able to put themselves at that level.

    for what its worth i like how spurs work as a club, i think moyes is a great manager and the driving force behind everton. over a longer period i see both of them having the better chance of breaking the top 4 over time, man city on the other hand look to have the money to be able to do it sooner


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 589 ✭✭✭vincenzo1975


    There seems to be a move on to limit the foriegn players in one way or another, if this happens, then there will be a shake up and someone else may come in, but if things go the way they keep going and the big 4 keep getting the champs league revenue, then how can it change?

    I think Villa have the most potential because I rate MON so much, but Spure have the best quality on the park, if they can keep consistancy and Ramos turns out to be as good aS HE SEEMS, then it could be spurs too. At whos expense? I would say Chelsea and Liverpool, becasue I think Chelsea are very unsettled at the minute and are buying mercenaries rather then quality, and Liverpool just dont have the clout of UTD and Arsenal.

    My worry for Arsenal is that Wenger may sacrifice a real chance at winning big because he does not go into the market for Overpriced Superstars, but rather gets great potential at a good deal and develops them. This is a risky ploy, but one he is exceptional at, and with the new stadium I just dont see them faltering.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    There seems to be a move on to limit the foriegn players in one way or another, if this happens, then there will be a shake up and someone else may come in, but if things go the way they keep going and the big 4 keep getting the champs league revenue, then how can it change?

    If that was implemented now Villa would waltz into the top 4 as it stands. Arsenal would have to go out and pay over the odds for Eglish players too (god would wenger hate that), Ashley Young/Micah Richards would each be around £35m.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    If that was implemented now Villa would waltz into the top 4 as it stands. Arsenal would have to go out and pay over the odds for Eglish players too (god would wenger hate that), Ashley Young/Micah Richards would each be around £35m.



    By all accounts Arsenal have some very good English players coming through the ranks who Arsene believes may be good enough for the first team if this mad rule comes in.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    By all accounts Arsenal have some very good English players coming through the ranks who Arsene believes may be good enough for the first team if this mad rule comes in.

    hope so really like Arsenal as a club, Randall, Gibbs, Landsbury and co i assume


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    hope so really like Arsenal as a club, Randall, Gibbs, Landsbury and co i assume

    Randall has looked quite good in the small bits I have seen of him and his goal against Sunderland should have stood, big season for them nxt season, they will be fringe players but they will have opportunities in the carling cup to impress.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    The likelyhood of all them breaking through is slim. I remember my dad telling me that Brady told him Graham Barrett was a shoe in to make it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭Savman


    I don't get the Spurs bandwagon at all. This so called "great side" could be mistaken for a bunch of overpaid flopstars. Oh and their seemingly great manager has all of half a season experience in the Premiership.

    If you had to pick one it has to be Everton based on recent years performances, they've been fairly consistent in their progress. I would rule out City, one good season does not a Top 4 club make esp considering the dipstick that runs the club now. Villa still lack strength in depth but defo have the Manager to be there or thereabouts. Portsmouth for all their flair and endeavour will not have the resources to compete on that level year after year. Blackburn are Blackburn.

    I think a more appropriate question would be "Which of the Top 4 is most likely to self implode?" because for the stronghold to be broken it will require a change from the top down. I think Chelsea and Liverpool will feel the effects of all the off the field unrest and if they lose their important players then they would be most at risk of slipping. If/when that happens, you could pick any one of 6 teams that could sneak the CL spot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭Attractive Nun


    Savman wrote:
    I think a more appropriate question would be "Which of the Top 4 is most likely to self implode?"

    That's probably true.

    In the long term, I think the answer to that has to be Chelsea, because they are scuppered if Abrahmovic ever gets bored. 'Big 4' dominance will have to end some day, and I'd expect it to be sooner than most predict.

    I mean, who knows what will happen to Chelsea as a club if Abramhovic leaves - if I were a Chelsea fan, I'd like to think that the board have made plans for this, but who knows? On the one hand, the Russian money could build a solid foundation for decades of success for Chelsea - or the club could find itself in the League 1 playoffs against Leeds.

    Both United and Liverpool (particularly the former) have massive issues with regard to debt. A season or two outside the CL (not unimagineable - finish 3rd and go out in the qualifying round in a freak result) could put them in a lot of bother.

    And both United and Arsenal will have to look at replacing their long term managers soon, which could cause a lot of disruption.

    They all look good now, granted, but look at Milan for example. Won the CL last year, didn't qualify this year! Or Valencia, tipped as outsiders for the CL last season, flirted with relegation from La Liga this season! Weird stuff happens in football. I guess in the end, the richest clubs will always rise to the top, but I don't think it's beyond some of the chasing pack to catch up in the mean time.

    Won't happen next season, of course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭x in the city


    No one seems to take Everton very serious it seems, fine by us..;)

    we have already broke this 'top four' thing and im sure we will continue to do so, unless moyes gets sacked or replaced, which seems unlikely.

    City - you cant picture city finishing fifth, with the current state of them its nigh on impossible task.

    Spurs- big underachievers, last season they were meant to be 'challenging', im sure next season the same will be said.

    Newcastle- um right.

    Pompey- pompey have a solid squad and should finsih well into the top 10 or above next season.

    Blackburn - a good squad and all that but 5th spot is out of their reach.

    villa- hmm, rather tasty team but needs more muscle.

    ____________

    Liverpool, and not because of my toffee status , are the team most likely to be nipped in the bud for 4th spot

    they are paying the cost for years of over paid, underachieving flops, bar CL success the team are miles off the pace for actually winnning a prem league. They won't win it next year either. now they have pretty no money, unsure future with stadia, ownership blah blah...

    Chelski, Man U and Arse are pretty much in a different galaxy compared to the rest of the prem as it stands.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    City - you cant picture city finishing fifth, with the current state of them its nigh on impossible task.

    'Current state of them'? What current state? Yeah we've lost our manager but nothing else. If Hughes comes in then we are in a hugely strong position with a good manager and plenty of money to spend. Apparently Jo is to sign once the new man is appointed, Dunne has hinted at a U-turn and the likes of Elano and Petrov have said they are delighted to stay no matter who's in charge.

    Jeez you'd swear there was some sort of crisis at the club. The fact is once someone gets appointed we're going to be in a great position.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 589 ✭✭✭vincenzo1975


    Newcastle, Man city, Liverpool spurs and chelsea all suffer on the pitch because of the behaviour of their boardrooms, Chelsea just have thje power of money to not make it matter as much. All the others suffer and have dips in form when the headlines are coming from the top rather then the bottom. Until these boards learn to shut up, these teams will struggle to keep in the top 6 or seven. Liverpool have been so lucky to have a coach like rafa, but if the roadshow keeps going on over there, they will be the first to drop.

    This is one reason why, if they get a real sized squad that is, I think villa can really make that move. It looks though, like spurs have truned a corner too, next year will be crucial in these teams developments.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,452 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Spurs have players of a very good quality all over the pitch, but they're missing that cutting edge. Modric could provide that bit of inspiration and magic needed, but they'll ideally need to keep Berbatov as well.

    I voted Villa. They're a young side, they've got a proven manager, huge resources and none of the bickering and infighting that has wrought havok at the likes of Newcastle and Man City. Much will depend on keeping Barry, and attracting big players to compliment the likes of Young, Agbonlahor and also squad players to bring numbers up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭Death or Glory


    The thing about Spurs is while they may invest in big names like Modric, they'll continue to buy up everyone elses kids left right and centre while doing absolutely nothing to develop their own academy. How many young players have Spurs brought into their first team in the last decade? King.....? And.......? Oh yeah, that's it. What will happen in reality is that they poach a kid from some Championship/League One team, he plays reserve team/youth football for two years, they decide they "can't take the risk" when embarking on yet another "assault on the top four" season of mid-table mediocrity and spunk yet another £7-8-9-?m on a faceless European import (Tainio, Ghaly, Prince-Boateng, etc.) who'll play like a tart for a season and a half before they decide he's **** and the process starts over again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    The thing about Spurs is while they may invest in big names like Modric, they'll continue to buy up everyone elses kids left right and centre while doing absolutely nothing to develop their own academy. How many young players have Spurs brought into their first team in the last decade? King.....? And.......? Oh yeah, that's it. What will happen in reality is that they poach a kid from some Championship/League One team, he plays reserve team/youth football for two years, they decide they "can't take the risk" when embarking on yet another "assault on the top four" season of mid-table mediocrity and spunk yet another £7-8-9-?m on a faceless European import (Tainio, Ghaly, Prince-Boateng, etc.) who'll play like a tart for a season and a half before they decide he's **** and the process starts over again.

    See you're still banging that drum...

    Tainio was free.
    Ghaly cost a pittance.

    For the record (and on-topic) I believe no team will break the top 4 this coming season.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    el rabitos wrote: »
    sure any of man city, spurs, everton and the like could finish in the top 4 any one season

    thats not he same as breaking into the top 4. the current "top 4" are not going to be broken in any sustained way anytime soon i reckon. it would take an implosion from the top to the bottom to initiate that kinda change

    Glad someone posted this.

    As for which of them stands the best chance, we might have a better idea in late August.

    Mike.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    We must remember the examples of Leeds & Newcastle, both were considered top 4/5 back in the early part of the decade and were in the CL but their financial largesse and lack of success eventually led to their decline (and almost Chelsea). Eventually at least one of the current top 4 will fall by the wayside as the pressure to spend will eventually consume a club, who knows what club it'll be, all the top 4 have a potentially disastrous financial situation, be it Utd & Liverpools huge American loans, Arsenals new stadium or Abramovichs whims at Chelsea. My point is nothing lasts forever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭Death or Glory


    I wouldn't change a thing though..... those nights we had beating the likes of AC Milan, Lazio, Deportivo will live with me forever.

    Sure, we lived the dream and now are playing Yeovil and Hereford away on a tuesday night, but, sure f*ck it, it was worth it, and I'd do it all over again!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,841 ✭✭✭Running Bing


    Savman wrote: »
    I don't get the Spurs bandwagon at all. This so called "great side" could be mistaken for a bunch of overpaid flopstars. Oh and their seemingly great manager has all of half a season experience in the Premiership.



    Their not overpayed though! We have one of the strictest wage structures in the league. a very small amount of our revenue goes on wages compared to teams in a similiar siuation and you'll find the likes of Lucas Neil, Diarra, Scott Parker are on significantly more than Berbatov. Also I dont think there's a "bandwagon". A lot of people rate Ramos as a manager...a lot of people rate players like Berbatov, Keane, Modric, Lennon, Woodgate, King, Bale and Hutton.


    We're also willing to spend very big. We have lots of competition (Pompey, Villa and Everton worry me most) but looking at the facts objectively I think Spurs are as fair a choice as anybody.


    Also so far the predominat reason people think we wont do it appears to be "they always blow it". Yes we always talk big and we've never done it in the PL but thats the past. 7 years ago City were in division 1 and Newcastle were 4th and Leeds were 5th. What happened 4 or five years ago has little bearing on the future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,956 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    I believe that Spurs have a better squad of players than most outside the top 4, but I believe that teams like Everton and Villa possibly have more potential to break the top 4 as they are so consistent. Having said that, I still don't believe that any team will break the top 4 this season, unless someone has an absolute nightmare.

    Then again, if Spurs sort out the midfield and keep Berbs, who knows :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Smegball


    Spurs are being linked with some tremendous talent, Geovanni, Capel, Dunne.
    Already signed Modric who I believe will shine in the PL next season, would be interesting if Spurs tried to hijack Arsenal's bid for Nasri.
    They have some very good players already of course, Keane,Berbatov,Hutton,Woodgate and to a lesser extent Jenas.
    I say they will be like the Man City of last season except not collapse as badly, although I still only expect them to finish 5th.

    Villa, Everton etc etc all have a chance but a slim one at that tbh, unless Liverpool or Arsenal really implode, I don't really see Everton adding much to their team really, and Villa will really need to keep hold of Barry which is doubtful.

    I suppose its the signings these teams make will determine who has the greatest chance, I would go with Spurs atm, just because of their movings in the transfer market already.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,841 ✭✭✭Running Bing


    SuprSi wrote: »
    I believe that Spurs have a better squad of players than most outside the top 4, but I believe that teams like Everton and Villa possibly have more potential to break the top 4 as they are so consistent. Having said that, I still don't believe that any team will break the top 4 this season, unless someone has an absolute nightmare.

    Then again, if Spurs sort out the midfield and keep Berbs, who knows :p



    While I wouldnt say those teams have more potential (as much at most imo) to break top four I do agree with what your saying.


    We have some really quality players but teams like Everton and Villa are a more solid package on the whole simply because we are (were?) so weak in the spine. JJ, Zokora, Dawson are what held us back and if we sort those positions (we already have Modric who is one upgrade) Id be confident of our chances.


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