BER rated windows

gooner99

I was a the ideal homes expo in Derry Yesterday and they had the usual stuff,wood pellet,solar,insulation,etc.

There were also a few window suppliers there,so I had a look around and asked a few questions.I spoke with one company who mainly deal in uPVC,but now are also supplying wooden and aluclad.I asked him a few questions about u-ratings of the uPVC windows,asking for the overall u-value of the complete unit.Can't remember the exact figure,but he said that they now only offer one type of uPVC window to the south,an A rated window.He gave me the brochure pointing out that the rating cert was on the back.So when I got home I had a look.I am very sus about the cert (British cert),as the company it's made out to doesn't show up on any search on the net at all and the reg no at the bottom is "xyz".So I reckon they just robbed it and made it up.Could be wrong but it looks very sus.There was another well known nationwide supplier/manufacturer of windows there also and I picked up all their brochures,etc.Not one mention of u-values of the frames or complete units,only glass u-values mentioned.

So this begs me to ask a few questions and comments that hopefully some of you may be able to answer,as I think windows are going to be a minefield once the new regs come in.

1. What onus will be is on the window manfacurers/suppliers to have their windows assesed and what onus will be on them to give the customer the info on the rating of their windows?

2. Is there anything to stop them from making up bogus rating stickers for their windows?

3. I know its straight forward to rate a TV or other electrical product,as they usually don't change until a new model comes out.With windows there are a few things that probably won't change on the window type,like the material used,the spacing between the glass.But am I right in saying that the style chosen and the size of the window will affect it's rating.So therefor as most windows are custom made,will the manufacturer/supplier have to rate every single window that leaves the factory?

4. Does the supplier/manufacturer really need to rate the window and are they obliged to provide you with a cert that can be shown to the BER accesor when they are rating the overall house.

muffler

Moved to the RE forum.

ardara1

gooner99 wrote: »

I was a the ideal homes expo in Derry Yesterday and they had the usual stuff,wood pellet,solar,insulation,etc.



So this begs me to ask a few questions and comments that hopefully some of you may be able to answer,as I think windows are going to be a minefield once the new regs come in.

1. [HTML]What onus will be is on the window manfacurers/suppliers to have their windows assesed and what onus will be on them to give the customer the info on the rating of their windows?[/HTML]



2. I[HTML]s there anything to stop them from making up bogus rating stickers for their windows?[/HTML]


3. I[HTML] know its straight forward to rate a TV or other electrical product,as they usually don't change until a new model comes out.With windows there are a few things that probably won't change on the window type,like the material used,the spacing between the glass.But am I right in saying that the style chosen and the size of the window will affect it's rating.So therefor as most windows are custom made,will the manufacturer/supplier have to rate every single window that leaves the factory?[/HTML]


4. [HTML]Does the supplier/manufacturer really need to rate the window and are they obliged to provide you with a cert that can be shown to the BER accesor when they are rating the overall house.[/HTML]

1. There is no onus on a manufacturer of ANY material to get certification of performance of product. But if it is not provided - the assessment for BER will be based on DEFAULT values contained within Part L - much worse than manufacturers claim - NO certification - NO acceptance of claims by SEI

2. No

3. There is a 'simplified' method of measuring window performance based on a standard size and opening configuration - if the manufacturer has this oen unit tested - they can us that U-value on all windows in a DOMESTIC situation - non-domestic windows are supposed to be actually measured to EN Standards

4. If they don't want the 'crappy' default U-values used against their wiondows - then they need certification - it's been a slow take-up in Ireland - but will come, better CERTIFIED windows will get the market if A & B grade houses are the goal.
The UK operates a WINDOW RATING system that accounts for U-values AND AIRTIGHTNESS - their DEAP software (SAP) is being upgraded to accept the new ratings.

Chimpster

The BFRC Window Energy rating system is recognised within building regulations throughout the UK, as far as I know most Irish suppliers will be sending their windows over to get tested???? Can anyone shed more light on this?

Here is what their certs look like...



As Ardara states, unless a cert can be produced then the defualt value will have to be used. So anyone looking to get the maximum energy rating form their development should insist on their supplier providing this cert.

gooner99

Chimpster wrote: »

The BFRC Window Energy rating system is recognised within building regulations throughout the UK, as far as I know most Irish suppliers will be sending their windows over to get tested???? Can anyone shed more light on this?

Here is what their certs look like...



As Ardara states, unless a cert can be produced then the defualt value will have to be used. So anyone looking to get the maximum energy rating form their development should insist on their supplier providing this cert.

but there is nothing stopping them from masking up bogus uk certs and presenting to the irish customer as legit.am I right on this.

ardara1

BRFC - British Fenistration Rating Council - great system - but a bit ahead of it's time -same old story - pushing the boundaries in performance - but the software used for rating a building (SAP or SBEM) our DEAP - hasn't been amended to accept their results.
I think Nordan windows have a rated window - but you can only use the U-value the achieved - nothing else.

sydthebeat

whatever u vlau ea manufacturer decleares, it HAS to be certified to relevant stanards.. .whether IAB, BBA EN, ISO, BRE etc etc...

If the assessor is confident of the validity of the cert then the manufacturers declared values can be entered... otherwise, as ardara1 states, the assessor has to input the default values...