(MEDIA) Leinster Express 28 May 2008 - "Nothing sinister about guns"

Rovi

Interesting article on page 16 of this week's Leinster Express (28 May 2008) on the case of an American man who brought his guns with him when he came to live here.

Good to see the Gardaí, the Judge, and the newspaper treating the matter in a matter-of-fact and non-sensationalist way, but it's a pity the guy had to have his guns destroyed.
I wonder what they were (they belonged to his father and "were over thirty years old"), and if there was any option for him to licence them himself or put them up for sale through a gun dealer?

Sparks

He probably wouldn't have had the option to licence them once it went to court
It's a damn shame - if he'd just looked into it beforehand...
(And he's coming from california, so he'd be used to fairly strict firearms regulations)

Traumadoc

"Moss Hayes" does not really have a California ring to it. Could he have been a returning expat?

Rovi

Traumadoc wrote: »

"Moss Hayes" does not really have a California ring to it. Could he have been a returning expat?

The guns were his father's, so I'd surmise 1st or 2nd generation Irish American; that's of no great consequence anyway (and none of our business either, to be honest), the important thing I was pointing out was the way the matter was perceived as 'ordinary' by all concerned.
It's a pity the guns were destroyed, but I'm somewhat encouraged by the handling and reporting of the whole thing.

cavan shooter

Out of interest there is an american chap near me and would be interested getting back into shooting, however he is of the opinion because he is not a native (for want of a better word) he won't get a licence. Any answers??

Rovi

cavan shooter wrote: »

Out of interest there is an american chap near me and would be interested getting back into shooting, however he is of the opinion because he is not a native (for want of a better word) he won't get a licence. Any answers??

I'm open to correction here, but I don't think there's any bar on 'foreign nationals' holding Irish Firearms Certificates; I know a few people of foreign extraction who are very active shooters here.
Get him to talk to his local Gardaí, I'm pretty sure that so long as he can fulfil the same criteria as the rest of us (genuine reason, adequate security, etc), he's as entitled as anyone else to possess a firearm here.

Grizzly 45

(And he's coming from california, so he'd be used to fairly strict firearms regulations)

Ummff,true enough,but it depends on what they were exactly. CA doesn't have much on inherited guns,or politically correct things like bolt actions or double barrel shotguns,or air guns,or Xbows.The last two Ireland and the UK are unique,as no one else classifies these as liscenseable firearms in CA or the US or in Europe.So they could be lumped as Firearms for legal and journalistic purposes.
Just wondering how he got them out of CA to Ireland..If he did an FFL dealer with international trading cert to a foriegn country.The FFL dealer would not release them without the reciving country,in this case Ireland,authorisation to posses paperwork.IE an Irish FAC.

Should add that where his solicitor said "liscense" for them in CA.As such there is no such thing.You purchase firearms in the US on your State drivers liscense,or State ID card.The gun is regd to your name with the local Sheriffs dept and is then stored on a State database,which can then be instant checked for future sales and felonies and misdemeanours.You might have a concealed carry permit...But you would have to beon talking terms with the Almighty,and it is even doubtful HE would get one in CA,it is so strict.That is about the closest CA has to a liscense.

As for foriegn nationals holding FACs ..No problem ,my mother is a German national and has three FACs here.

Bananaman

Remember that people who come here for competition get an Irish License - albeit a different colour.

For a person who holds a non-irish passport but lives in Ireland I do not see why they would not get a license.

The Gardai may want to do a background check in the country he came from as their records will only cover his time here.

I can't see any reasons why they would not get a license if they have done nothing to prevent themselves from doing so.

B'Man

meathstevie

Different citizenship is absolutely no impediment to holding licenced firearms. I have Belgian citizenship and I'm living in Ireland ten years. When I went to the local station a couple of general questions in regards to permissions etc were asked and when it came to the point of : "What do you do for a living ? " I told the chap I drive a taxi and his reply was something down the lines of : that makes things a lot easier for the background check so, it's already been done before and if anything came up that shouldn't be there we'll know straight away. Three weeks later Stevie had a shotgun.

Our man in Havana

The super thought I was a foreign national when I first applied. But once I clarified that I was not I have my licence within a week.

harmoniums

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ummff,true enough,but it depends on what they were exactly. CA doesn't have much on inherited guns,or politically correct things like bolt actions or double barrel shotguns,or air guns,or Xbows.The last two Ireland and the UK are unique,as no one else classifies these as liscenseable firearms in CA or the US or in Europe.So they could be lumped as Firearms for legal and journalistic purposes.
Just wondering how he got them out of CA to Ireland..If he did an FFL dealer with international trading cert to a foriegn country.The FFL dealer would not release them without the reciving country,in this case Ireland,authorisation to posses paperwork.IE an Irish FAC.

Should add that where his solicitor said "liscense" for them in CA.As such there is no such thing.You purchase firearms in the US on your State drivers liscense,or State ID card.The gun is regd to your name with the local Sheriffs dept and is then stored on a State database,which can then be instant checked for future sales and felonies and misdemeanours.You might have a concealed carry permit...But you would have to beon talking terms with the Almighty,and it is even doubtful HE would get one in CA,it is so strict.That is about the closest CA has to a liscense.

As for foriegn nationals holding FACs ..No problem ,my mother is a German national and has three FACs here.

All pistols in California need to be registered to the individual via DROS along with a 10 day waiting period.
He probably just threw them into the container he moved his stuff over on.
Little chance that they go through everything the comes through the port

chem

Its a pitty he lost the guns. He might have been told, that if he give them up, the charges would be dropped for having broke several laws.

Our man in Havana

Story doesn't say how the Gardaí became aware of the situation. I would think that the Gardaí seized them immediately so there was no option to self surrender them to avoid charges.

chem

Bond-007 wrote: »

Story doesn't say how the Gardaí became aware of the situation. I would think that the Gardaí seized them immediately so there was no option to self surrender them to avoid charges.

This maybe so. But to have them destroyed, when they could of been licenced? Unless they were some full-auto assult rifles.

More guns off the streets. Well done gardi:rolleyes:

meathstevie

Feel sorry for the guy losing his guns but ignorance is no defence. The only thing he should have done is check up on Irish firearms legislation before he brought them in. If he could bring a reference from his local PD and joined something the likes of Hilltop or Courtlough or Midlands straight away after arriving in Ireland he'd most likely still have his guns as the local Super would have been quite likely to grant him the licences.