Htpc

Myxomatosis

I'm thinking of building a HTPC soon in conjunction with getting a new HDTV.

I want it to have a TV tuner card, analog + digital (future Irish DTT compatible), and a DVB-S card for viewing free satellite channels. HD ones as well.

I'd like it to be as quiet as possible and to have it all work from one piece of Media Center software. Weather it be Windows Media Center, MediaPortal or whatever. i.e. both TV tuner and DVB-S working together in the same software.

I have a rough idea of the graphics card I'll use, Radeon HD 3450. Mainly because of the HDMI out, integrated audio which sends audio out the HDMI allowing for a one cable solution to TV and fanless heatsink.

So what kind of TV cards and DVB-S cards work well with what Media Center / Home Theater software? Or more importantly, what software supports both TV cards and DVB-S cards?

I assume I could get away with a relatively cheap, lower end CPU and no more than a gig of RAM, even with h.264/mpeg4/avc decoding? The ATI AVIVO processing should help with video decoding.

dingdong1234567

I'm thinking of a similar purchase inthe coming months with the following:
Mobo: http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=20350&agid=602

Heatsink: http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=17488&agid=669
makes for a quiet HTPC, just remove the fan as you will not need it with the following processor........

CPU: http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=17792&agid=597
Low power usage. low heat. With enough punch for playback of even HD material!

Scrap the graphics card as the Mobo has a more than capable onboard graphics for what you need to playback.

I will be running Mediaportal just because its alot cooler than VMC! No advise to give on TV cards i'm afraid.

Myxomatosis

Nice suggestion for the CPU. And the Motherboard as well, someone else also suggested it.

SouperComputer

If you are mixing sources, then really Mediaportal or MythTV are the way to go. Over here you can have use both terrestrial digital and analog (or cable) on MCE with the same EPG. They simply moved the channel numbers for the terrestial channels up to 1xxx in the EPG. Hopefully this is what will happen in Ireland

My (almost synonymous, ) suggestion, if you plan doing any transcoding (to remove adds, burn DVDs, stream accros the internet or recompress to save space) Then I would go with an overclocked bottom-end core2.

1Gb RAM should be okay, depending on the OS you use and what other tasks your HTPC will be peforming/serving.

Do you have a HD already? If not the seagate 11 series is a good way to go.

requiem1

SouperComputer wrote: »

My (almost synonymous, ) suggestion, if you plan doing any transcoding (to remove adds, burn DVDs, stream accros the internet or recompress to save space) Then I would go with an overclocked bottom-end core2.

+1

SouperComputer wrote: »

1Gb RAM should be okay, depending on the OS you use and what other tasks your HTPC will be peforming/serving.

At the cost of ram these days you may aswell go for 2GB and also vista almost demands it. Because its a htpc you don't need anything fancy but the way i see the more ram the better

kaisersose77

Buy a dvb-s2 card for HD satellite, BBC HD is dvb-s atm but that mightnt last forever. A skystar 2 HD or technotrend s2-3200 would be the best cards. Mediaportal imo is buggy and slow, its in need a huge facelift and nothing seems to have changed with it in years. A htpc for most ppl is meant to have eye candy, but mediaportal skins look awful imo. The next version of vista media center will probably support dvb-t and dvb-s2 together.

spannerotoole

requiem1 wrote: »

+1



At the cost of ram these days you may aswell go for 2GB and also vista almost demands it. Because its a htpc you don't need anything fancy but the way i see the more ram the better

I wouldn't use vista as a server for this you might want to check out LinuxMCE also, It's good fancy and free. (No microsoft tax)

eddiem74

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Mediaportal imo is buggy and slow, its in need a huge facelift and nothing seems to have changed with it in years. A htpc for most ppl is meant to have eye candy, but mediaportal skins look awful imo.

I am still using VMC, however I have been following this guys posts over on AvForums (jump straight to page 4 and then 6 to start seeing some pics), and I must say MP looks pretty slick to me although more work then VMC in terms of configuration. He has also set-up his own website with his set-up/config (use header banner / red text at top to get to the details). Given that its free, it is not a bad alternative, plus there is a version 2.0 on the way which should be even better by all accounts.

spannerotoole

eddiem74 wrote: »

I am still using VMC, however I have been following this guys posts over on AvForums (jump straight to page 4 and then 6 to start seeing some pics), and I must say MP looks pretty slick to me although more work then VMC in terms of configuration. He has also set-up his own website with his set-up/config (use header banner / red text at top to get to the details). Given that its free, it is not a bad alternative, plus there is a version 2.0 on the way which should be even better by all accounts.

I was only making a point that you don't need to use windows and possibly save you a bit of cash, I use LinuxMCE on top of Kubuntu and it works fine for me. It also looks really cool. The fancy graphics work is handled by your graphics card, so it doesn't use that much extra power, Vista on the other hand has insane hardware requirements. Google Kubuntu minimum specs and Vista Home Premium/Ultimate minimum specs.

Myxomatosis

spannerotoole wrote: »

I wouldn't use vista as a server for this you might want to check out LinuxMCE also, It's good fancy and free. (No microsoft tax)

I would be reluctant to use Linux seeing that it has never had any good ATI drivers. Although I did read somewhere that the ATI drivers were going open source or partially open source so that should allow improvements.

Having had both Geforces and Radeons, I personally feel that ATI win in video acceleration, plus that fact the new HDs do h.264.

The problem with Linux is hardware compatibility, and the possibility that your not getting the most out of the hardware due to the drivers and software.

spannerotoole

Myxomatosis wrote: »

I would be reluctant to use Linux seeing that it has never had any good ATI drivers. Although I did read somewhere that the ATI drivers were going open source or partially open source so that should allow improvements.

Having had both Geforces and Radeons, I personally feel that ATI win in video acceleration, plus that fact the new HDs do h.264.

The problem with Linux is hardware compatibility, and the possibility that your not getting the most out of the hardware due to the drivers and software.

Actually, you get quite a lot out of your hardware because in my experience, hardware tends to Just work. The Cards will still work, but 3d Acceleration will need ATi's Drivers. Also try and budget for what you need, That X-fi Platinum looks nice, but is it overkill in a Media Machine?, you'll get by on a Live! or an Audigy which are both well supported in Linux. But I would personally use Turtle Beach in a Media Machine as it is one of the best cards you can use at a budget price, supports 7.1 at 96000hz output.
They have a decent midi wavetable also and supports EAX and ASIO and a few other things. I would put in 2 Gig's of Ram, A couple of celerons (It is only a media box after all and a mobo that supports 2 separate processors) and some flashing blue lights.


The other problem with Hardware on Windows is that a lot of it doesn't perform to it's full potential on Vista as Microsoft changed the driver API's For Vista RTM, They didn't inform the card manufacturers. I know my Geforce wouldn't work properly when vista was installed, because MS changed the driver API, so the drivers didn't even load, I was stuck in VESA mode, Switched that machine back to XP, Vista is not good for games for this reason. It's great if you use intels X3100 chipset which is supported, but for Patent reasons the two big ones (ATi and Nvidia) are not supported.

But linux should pick up all your hardware, and you won't even have to search for drivers for it, It can actually detect which hardware you use and take it from the repositories. To see will it work, Try out Knoppix. If that works, you're flying, Knoppix can be downloaded and runs from The DVD, so it doesn't touch your hard drive, although you can still read from it.
NTFS isn't actually that good of a Filesystem, knoppix ignores that Security settings so it's not that secure. I've recovered many a file without knowing the users password or even the root password of a Windows Box.
(good if you DO install windows and it goes Belly-up on you )

spannerotoole

And for the record, the drivers for windows weren't fantastic either. Loads of IRQ conflicts there if you so much as put in another multimedia card (Read Soundcard here)

pug_

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the ATI drivers, both the open source and ATI's proprietary fglrx driver work very well with linux now. One of my mates has an ATI board displaying HD content via a projector using mythTV and it runs sweet as a nut, another friend of mine is in the process of building his first HTPC machine with an ATI board and he intends using myth also.

The thing about it is it's free, so even if you install it and don't like it or find it doesn't do what you want nothing is really lost only a bit of time.

kaisersose77

eddiem74 wrote: »

I am still using VMC, however I have been following this guys posts over on AvForums (jump straight to page 4 and then 6 to start seeing some pics), and I must say MP looks pretty slick to me although more work then VMC in terms of configuration. He has also set-up his own website with his set-up/config (use header banner / red text at top to get to the details). Given that its free, it is not a bad alternative, plus there is a version 2.0 on the way which should be even better by all accounts.

2.0 is on the way but the forums look dead, they dont have enough developers for it and want to finish 1.0 before they start 2.0 properly. So it could be years before its out.Every skin has the same look and feel. Everything looks like a filemanger and as good as the skins look in the screenshots ( I've being hoping and hoping that it would look better), when you get around to actually using it, its back to same xp mce 2005 look and feel and still slow and buggy (even using a quad core cpu). I've always wanted something like Xbox Media Center on a pc but Mediaportal still hasnt reached that. Sure ppl try to create new skins for mediaportal by copying ones from xbmc, you would think it would be the other way around. I'm no developer so I cant complain, but Mediaportal doesnt feel any different from when I used XBMC on a modded xbox around 4 years ago (if your ignore the tv part). I want a media centre to be eye candy, i want ppl to think that looks brilliant when they see it in action and thats not going to happen using mediaportal.


More and more free tv and movie plugins are popping up for vista mce and probably dvb-s2 and multi-tuner support sometime this year aswell as much as ppl hate Microsoft, Vista Media Center is one of the best htpc program atm.

spannerotoole

Linux MCE is choc a Bloc full of Eye Candy. Check it out, do a google search for screenshots.

mathias

I have both running here , mostly down to some experiments to find out which is best for recording from a DVB S2 satellite card ,

Linux is sorely lacking when it comes to HTPC's , really , the sheer amount of work you have to continually put in to the machine to keep it running is ridiculous, most of the people who show off such a setup neglect to tell you this ,

For a first HTPC build , stick with Vista , it is by far the most user friendly and easy Media center to set up.
I have this running in a Zalman 160 case under the TV , it took approximately 2 days to put together , I installed a DVB S2 last week in 30 minutes , I was recording BBC HD with playback as smooth as butter and no problems.
DVBviewer can be integrated already into Vista MCE with a hack , it works fine , I had that running in about another hour , its been fine since.

For the DVB S2 card and recording , Vista media center and DVBviewer just cannot be beat at the moment.

The llinux box is just problem after problem , highly unstable drivers and EPG's just being one pain after another .... it seems to be a permanently ongoing project. Every time I turn it on something else has stopped working.

The initial setup is about a weeks work at least , then its approx 6 hours a week and has been since setup , needless to say I dont have that much spare time and it tends to get left until I have a free day , now there is no way that thing will get into the sitting room until it is stable and works , and by works I mean that the wife can use it without having to learn anything about linux , as even a mention of console commands or binaries will see her making room in the bin for it !!

That has to be appreciated here , a Media center should be a device that works from a remote without you giving it a second thought. Vista is there , and has been for some time.

And any flavour of MCE under linux is very very far away from that !

spannerotoole

mathias wrote: »

I have both running here , mostly down to some experiments to find out which is best for recording from a DVB S2 satellite card ,

Linux is sorely lacking when it comes to HTPC's , really , the sheer amount of work you have to continually put in to the machine to keep it running is ridiculous, most of the people who show off such a setup neglect to tell you this ,

For a first HTPC build , stick with Vista , it is by far the most user friendly and easy Media center to set up.
I have this running in a Zalman 160 case under the TV , it took approximately 2 days to put together , I installed a DVB S2 last week in 30 minutes , I was recording BBC HD with playback as smooth as butter and no problems.
DVBviewer can be integrated already into Vista MCE with a hack , it works fine , I had that running in about another hour , its been fine since.

For the DVB S2 card and recording , Vista media center and DVBviewer just cannot be beat at the moment.

The llinux box is just problem after problem , highly unstable drivers and EPG's just being one pain after another .... it seems to be a permanently ongoing project. Every time I turn it on something else has stopped working.

The initial setup is about a weeks work at least , then its approx 6 hours a week and has been since setup , needless to say I dont have that much spare time and it tends to get left until I have a free day , now there is no way that thing will get into the sitting room until it is stable and works , and by works I mean that the wife can use it without having to learn anything about linux , as even a mention of console commands or binaries will see her making room in the bin for it !!

That has to be appreciated here , a Media center should be a device that works from a remote without you giving it a second thought.

And any flavour of MCE under linux is very very far away from that !

And which linux flavours have you tried, Drivers support in Vista is sketchy at best, In Linux there is not an awful lot maintenance needed as you put it. There is if you use the machine for something other than a media centre, Try Open Suse 10.3 with MythTV see how that works

mathias

Drivers support in Vista is sketchy at best

your operating on sorely outdated information , driver support in Vista has been stable for a year or more. You need to stay up to date there , Vista driver support was patchy around March 2007 !!

Im using a Core2duo , nvidia 8500 , terratec cinergy S2 HD card , auzentech soundcard , Harmony 555 remote and MCE keyboard and all are as solid as a rock , powers down to S3 without a hitch , wakes up to record without any fuss , the wife loves it.

Suse is the worst linux distro Ive ever had the misfortune to work with ,It is broken on so many levels I wouldnt know where to start , I have a full pro box for that particular disaster of an OS that I foolishly paid for .... Thats not a working solution its a jigsaw project for a propeller head .... Im currently running with Ubuntu mediaportal and mythtv , and maintenance intensive is how I would describe it though its certainly streets ahead of Suse.

I have all the hardware working , it just wont stay working is the problem , its a case of fingers crossed every time I set a recording. Maybe it'll work , maybe it wont ! Who knows... ? Its aesthetically unpleasant to look at as well , and as a music jukebox it looks terrible , getting album art to display properly is a chore.

Then theres the overscan problem with the HDTV , dont get me started on that ...

pug_

Sounds like you've had a tough time of it. If you like ubuntu maybe you should give mythbuntu a go. That's what I use and it was relatively easy to setup and configure, I managed to get everything I wanted up and working in under an hour bar the TV channels which did take me a bit of work to get right, but now that it's up and running it's been completely problem free.

mathias

Thanks Pug , that looks promising , looks like theres less there to give problems , I'll give that a go.

Myxomatosis

Yeah I stand by what I said earlier, Linux just doesn't have the hardware support to do anything other than surf the net and do some word processing.

Just spent yet another wasted hour of my life trying to get my TerraTec Cinergy HT working on MythBuntu 8.04, with no success.

I just couldn't be bothered really, so many times in that past I've spend endless hours trying to get the most basic things working on Linux then only to find that once I do succeed the results are mediocre.

I know the Linux lovers hate to hear it but the simple fact is that to get the most out of the hardware you buy, it's Windows all that way baby.

Myxomatosis

spannerotoole wrote: »

Linux MCE is choc a Bloc full of Eye Candy. Check it out, do a google search for screenshots.

For some reason, unbenounced to me, I'm trying to get some kind of Media Center solution to work on Linux, just to see what I may be missing out on.

All I can say is WOW. What an ugly, buggy, plain just does not work piece of **** LinuxMCE is.

I installed Kubuntu 7.10 and downloaded the two LinuxMCE iso's. Trying to get my wireless USB adapter and 1440x900 resolution to work on Kubuntu nearly drained the life out of me. But eventually with ndiswrapper I got the wireless working, and by pure chance the resolution started working too after about 15 attempts at editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf.

Believe it or not, simply trying to change the resolution to 1440x900 actually rendered Kubuntu unusable twice, and required a fresh installation each time. Rock solid my hole.

Then I started the LinuxMCE installation, which took a good hour and a half to complete. After I rebooted, my wireless was gone, it wouldn't allow me to select a 16:9 / 16:10 resolution and nearly every application now crashes within seconds of starting.

The configuration screens of LinuxMCE are supposed to have a video playing with the words "Press next when you can hear me and see me".

Of course there is no video playing, the screen just flashes every few moments and pretends to be doing something, so I have to press "Cancel set-up wizard". Unfortunately that does not work either, instead it just starts the set-up wizard all over again.

So my perfectly good installation of Kubuntu with wireless working and proper resolution has been bolloxed my LinuxMCE. I just hope the image of the Linux partition I made before I started the installation restores and works properly.