Slow Play

Golferx · 27-05-2008 4:08pm #1

Someone suggested it, following from the other thread, so here goes.

What are the biggest reasons for slow play? And how can they be eliminated?

I suggested, elsewhere, that higher handicap golfers should be playing at different times to lower handicap players, so as they would not adversely affect the passage of play. Unfortunately, some people took this to infer (because it suited) that I said this was the only cause of slow play.

So, some reasons for slow play
1. Higher handicap players taking so many shots will take a lot of time. If one takes 30 seconds per shot and one takes 15 shots extra, per round, that's an extra 7.5 minutes on the course. Personally I think most players will take a hell of a lot more than 30 seconds, with the inevitable consequences.

2. The Nick Faldos, the players who will over-analyse each shot and take far too long. I prefer the John Daly, Grip-it and Rip it, approach.

3. Padraig Harrington, Trevor Immelman etc
The professionals who's example is a disgrace, they are so slow. Two-ball matches in last week's BMW tournament were taking 5 hours and 15 minutes. Isn't about time the tour clamped down
"Down with this sort of thing!"

4. Etiquette?
Leave your bag where you can pick it up on your way to the next hole.

Be ready to play when it's your turn. If you're not ready, then next player step in. Play "Ready Golf"

Putting. If you putt up to a foot, or so, then finish the bloody hole. Don't mark and start the whole performance again.

"Gimme Circle"? How about courses have a "Gimme Circle", a circle of approx 2 feet in diameter, around the hole, within which any player can take a gimme shot. For recreational play, this is perfectly acceptable. Don't have to have it it for competition. I think this would take up to 10 minutes off a round.

5. Sensible Hole locations.
Sometimes it seems it's the Greenkeeper v the player. Once everyone is playing the same course, what is the point in making some ridiculous pin positions, if they will only add time to the round?

For those of a sensitive nature. These are opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Attack the post, not the poster!

kenco · 27-05-2008 4:29pm

Golferx wrote: »

Someone suggested it, following from the other thread, so here goes.

What are the biggest reasons for slow play? And how can they be eliminated?

I suggested, elsewhere, that higher handicap golfers should be playing at different times to lower handicap players, so as they would not adversely affect the passage of play. Unfortunately, some people took this to infer (because it suited) that I said this was the only cause of slow play.

So, some reasons for slow play
1. Higher handicap players taking so many shots will take a lot of time. If one takes 30 seconds per shot and one takes 15 shots extra, per round, that's an extra 7.5 minutes on the course. Personally I think most players will take a hell of a lot more than 30 seconds, with the inevitable consequences.

2. The Nick Faldos, the players who will over-analyse each shot and take far too long. I prefer the John Daly, Grip-it and Rip it, approach.

3. Padraig Harrington, Trevor Immelman etc
The professionals who's example is a disgrace, they are so slow. Two-ball matches in last week's BMW tournament were taking 5 hours and 15 minutes. Isn't about time the tour clamped down
"Down with this sort of thing!"

4. Etiquette?
Leave your bag where you can pick it up on your way to the next hole.

Be ready to play when it's your turn. If you're not ready, then next player step in. Play "Ready Golf"

Putting. If you putt up to a foot, or so, then finish the bloody hole. Don't mark and start the whole performance again.

"Gimme Circle"? How about courses have a "Gimme Circle", a circle of approx 2 feet in diameter, around the hole, within which any player can take a gimme shot. For recreational play, this is perfectly acceptable. Don't have to have it it for competition. I think this would take up to 10 minutes off a round.

5. Sensible Hole locations.
Sometimes it seems it's the Greenkeeper v the player. Once everyone is playing the same course, what is the point in making some ridiculous pin positions, if they will only add time to the round?

For those of a sensitive nature. These are opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Attack the post, not the poster!

While I dont agree with your point on high handicappers I do agree with the general thought process. I am like you a 'grip and hit' player. I dont see any reason why a three ball can not complete most courses in less than 4 hours.

Some items I would add to yours;

6. In competitions tee off at the actual tee off time (or early if poss), not 2, 4 or 6 minutes later. The knock on affects of this are huge

7. Long Par 3s - play them as call through holes, i.e. when the players on the hole are all on the green, mark the balls, take a breath and watch the next groups tee shots. Then finish out your hole.

8. Where there is a hole with a blind drive - use the bell if it is there. It is there for a purpose and for your safety!

arg · 27-05-2008 5:54pm

I'd love it if everyone played to suit my pace, which varies considerably depending on on how well I'm hitting the ball, the weather, my health, etc.

Nobody seems to care though; so I've decided to relax, enjoy the game and treat all the golfers around me with equal respect and hope they'll do the same.

Trampas · 27-05-2008 6:41pm

so your point 2 and 3 are high handicappers going by you :cool:

OilBeefHooked2 · 27-05-2008 6:48pm

Golferx wrote: »

Someone suggested it, following from the other thread, so here goes.

What are the biggest reasons for slow play?Volume,Volume and Volume. And how can they be eliminated?They cant be and hopefully never will otherwise the game will die. Imo individual golfers are entilted to play at whatever pace they please, as long as they are not interfering with any one else's game i.e. your place on the course is behind the group in front not in front of the group behind.

I suggested, elsewhere, that higher handicap golfers should be playing at different times to lower handicap players, so as they would not adversely affect the passage of play. Unfortunately, some people took this to infer (because it suited) that I said this was the only cause of slow play.

So, some reasons for slow play
1. Higher handicap players taking so many shots will take a lot of time. If one takes 30 seconds per shot and one takes 15 shots extra, per round, that's an extra 7.5 minutes on the course. Personally I think most players will take a hell of a lot more than 30 seconds, with the inevitable consequences.You seem to be fixated on the beginner/higher hangicapper!

2. The Nick Faldos, the players who will over-analyse each shot and take far too long. I prefer the John Daly, Grip-it and Rip it, approach. It'd be a very boring,dull and uninteresting game if we were all the same! Btw fail on your examples! One of them was a far superior golfer.

3. Padraig Harrington, Trevor Immelman etc
The professionals who's example is a disgrace, they are so slow. Two-ball matches in last week's BMW tournament were taking 5 hours and 15 minutes. Isn't about time the tour clamped down
"Down with this sort of thing!"
Understandable when you consider the vast amounts of money they play for.
4. Etiquette?
Leave your bag where you can pick it up on your way to the next hole.

Be ready to play when it's your turn. If you're not ready, then next player step in. Play "Ready Golf"

Putting. If you putt up to a foot, or so, then finish the bloody hole. Don't mark and start the whole performance again.I have no problem with someone marking or holing out, it's a personal thing and it should be left upto the indivdual to decide.

"Gimme Circle"? How about courses have a "Gimme Circle", a circle of approx 2 feet in diameter, around the hole, within which any player can take a gimme shot. For recreational play, this is perfectly acceptable. Don't have to have it it for competition. I think this would take up to 10 minutes off a round. "Gimme circles"! Brilliant lets use mulligans aswell.

5. Sensible Hole locations.
Sometimes it seems it's the Greenkeeper v the player. Once everyone is playing the same course, what is the point in making some ridiculous pin positions, if they will only add time to the round?ah um that's the whole point of golf, it's the course's last defense against players, although hang on a minute maybe you have a point, yes yes I agree with you and would like to add: all flags should be in the middle of greens on every hole, no 2/3 tier greens, no undulations whatsoever on greens, no OOB, no doglegs, no bunkers or hazards of any description and no hole longer than the furthest distance the worst player cant hit the ball.That way you'll save at least 27.59 minutes a round! Sounds ideal! doesn't it golferx?

For those of a sensitive nature. These are opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Attack the post, not the poster!

Judging by the overall tone of your comments it sounds very much like your in an awful hurry when your on the course or life in general?
Just one question. I'd be intrigued to know what your going to do with the 17.5 minutes you'll save if everyone was to adopt your suggestions?

Kimbot · 27-05-2008 8:39pm

I'm a high handicapper (no handicap at the moment at all) and I play with better golfers than me and do be the same time as them. Only once has anyone had to play through and that was because I took a break for a few minutes to let them so I wouldn't hold them up.

Woodgate · 27-05-2008 8:58pm

1. Higher handicap players taking so many shots will take a lot of time. If one takes 30 seconds per shot and one takes 15 shots extra, per round, that's an extra 7.5 minutes on the course. Personally I think most players will take a hell of a lot more than 30 seconds, with the inevitable consequences.

This comment is totally biased against higher handicap players. On any day people can play good or bad or average, that's the beauty of golf. I play of 6 but can have really bad days where I do take lots of extra shots, I honestly don't think I take too much longer to play that round and certainly don't hold the group behind up. I know there are slow players off all ranges of handicaps, but they are "slow" players, irrespective of handicap, I don't think it's justifiable to label high handicappers the way they have been above.

2. The Nick Faldos, the players who will over-analyse each shot and take far too long. I prefer the John Daly, Grip-it and Rip it, approach.

This is a difficult one, as both could equally take time. If you grip it and rip it, are you going to be looking for 5 mins for your ball on each hole? The main thing on this is that some people do take too long to hit a shot, but others do that and walk quickly in between shots. Overall it's not a sprint, so if people play at a pace under 4 hours for an average 4 ball not too many would complain.

3. Padraig Harrington, Trevor Immelman etc
The professionals who's example is a disgrace, they are so slow. Two-ball matches in last week's BMW tournament were taking 5 hours and 15 minutes. Isn't about time the tour clamped down
"Down with this sort of thing!"

Would agree, there are many more than Padraig & Trevor aswell.

4. Etiquette?
Leave your bag where you can pick it up on your way to the next hole.
Be ready to play when it's your turn. If you're not ready, then next player step in. Play "Ready Golf"

Would agree.

Putting. If you putt up to a foot, or so, then finish the bloody hole. Don't mark and start the whole performance again.

No problem generally, but what if you are going to be standing on peoples lines.

"Gimme Circle"? How about courses have a "Gimme Circle", a circle of approx 2 feet in diameter, around the hole, within which any player can take a gimme shot. For recreational play, this is perfectly acceptable. Don't have to have it it for competition. I think this would take up to 10 minutes off a round.

A non-runner. In the recreational games you refer to, genarally there's a few quid on them. Would result in people wasting time measuring and arguing over whether putts are gimmes or not. Just put the ball in, no arguement.

5. Sensible Hole locations.
Sometimes it seems it's the Greenkeeper v the player. Once everyone is playing the same course, what is the point in making some ridiculous pin positions, if they will only add time to the round?

Courses only have a few different positions on each green and vary it to give the golfer different challenges.

For those of a sensitive nature. These are opinions, nothing more, nothing less. Attack the post, not the poster!

Commenting on the points in the post.

Mister Sifter · 27-05-2008 9:16pm

david-k wrote: »

Judging by the overall tone of your comments it sounds very much like your in an awful hurry when your on the course or life in general?

That was my thoughts too. Golf is meant to be enjoyable. There are enought stresses in work / everyday life without making golf like an army training exercise.

And in defence of the pros, golf is their job so if they want to take a bit of time then far be it from us who play it in our spare time to pull them up on slow play. If i was playing for a few hundred thousand quid and my career depended on the outcome of my round then i would take a good bit of time over every shot.

Dublin Spur · 28-05-2008 8:42am

A player's general awareness of their own pace of play and general respect for the other players on the course should be enough to sort it out. Slow play is caused by nothing more than selfish golfers in my opinion.

stooge · 28-05-2008 9:13am

Golf is a game to be enjoyed and not to be rushed. Wheres the fun in going to a course, paying 60-80E and then sprinting round the course trying to finish in 2hours? I think it's perfectly acceptable to take your time hitting shots and enjoy your time on the course. Theres nothing wrong with slow play at all.... AS LONG AS YOU LET PEOPLE PLAY THROUGH IF YOURE HOLDING THEM UP. And this is the crux of the matter.

GolferX's problem seems to be firstly that the people on the course at the same time as him/her do not play at his/her pace. Secondly he/she thinks that higher handicappers should not be allowed on the course at the same time as lower handicappers.This shows a distinct lack of respect for other players. As someone else posted in another thread, everyone is a learner once, and they deserve encouragement rather than berating.

IMHO a group should be able to keep up with the group in the hole in front. If not, and if the group behind them is waiting, then it is common sense they should allow the group behind to play through.

So can you pelase get away from the whole lower/higher handicapper issue? If you concentrated more on YOUR game than everyone elses you may not have to play with us 'mere mortals'

Golferx · 28-05-2008 12:34pm

Why do the replies disagreeing with my opinions of the causes of slow play have to get personal? It is probably safe to assume some of those disagreeing with me are guilty of slow play. Some contributors obviously don't care about other players, preferring to take their time rather than keep up a decent pace.

I'm still amused at those who deny that taking more shots takes more time.

As for this being a bugbear of mine? It's not, but slow play is definitely a problem for pretty much any golf course one ever plays.

And for the personal attacks? Chill out girls.

slumped · 28-05-2008 12:57pm

here's my input - veyr simple and straight forward - if everyone did this then golf would speed up

1. When you get to the tee don't hang around having a discussion with your playing partners - keep this for walking between shots/

2. If you think you may have difficulty finding your ball - play a provisional straight away.

3. Hit as soon as it is safe to do so.

4. At the green leave you bag on the side of the hole adjacent to the next tee box (this drives me mad)

5. Mark your cards quickyl before teeing off again.

6. Back to 1

(also, walk in a straight line to your ball, not all the way down to your partners ball on the right rough to yours on the left!)

Also - re: high handicappers - go to a leading amateur event like the East of Ireland this weekend and see how long it takes the best 120 guys in the country to play 18 holes......

rigal · 28-05-2008 7:24pm

Dublin Spur wrote: »

A player's general awareness of their own pace of play and general respect for the other players on the course should be enough to sort it out. Slow play is caused by nothing more than selfish golfers in my opinion.

+1

madds · 04-02-2009 3:52pm

Apologies for digging up an old thread but there are some interesting points of view in here.

Slow play is an issue in our club from time to time, like all clubs I'm sure.

What I'd like to know is what have clubs done to battle slow play? Are there any clubs out there who have implemented a system which has sped the time per round up?

20goto10 · 05-02-2009 1:44pm

slumped wrote: »

4. At the green leave you bag on the side of the hole adjacent to the next tee box (this drives me mad)

This one is a bit of a misconception. You still have to walk over to the side adjacent to the next tee, whether you do it before or after your shot makes no difference at all. The only difference it makes is that by not doing this people behind you are going to get pissed off at you.

As a high handicapper and a beginner I'd like to point out a couple of things:
1. The courses are quite often overbooked.
2. There is a lot of snobbery and bad attitudes. People see you hacking around and get pissed off at the sight of a beginner, even if you are keeping up with play.
3. Golf should not be hurried.

Mister Sifter · 05-02-2009 1:53pm

20goto10 wrote: »

This one is a bit of a misconception. You still have to walk over to the side adjacent to the next tee, whether you do it before or after your shot makes no difference at all. The only difference it makes is that by not doing this people behind you are going to get pissed off at you.

I'm not buying that at all. Leaving your bag in the right spot before putting out is a great way of keeping things going, especially if you'e playing in a 3-4 ball.

One of the most frustrating things about waiting for a green to clear is when you see the flag going back in, the group in front start to disperse, and then somebody walks down the front of the green to grab their clubs/trolley. Aside from the point about saving time, it's very annoying and off-putting when you're waiting to hit.

ShriekingSheet · 05-02-2009 2:20pm

I have to say I disagree with some of the points in the thread pointing the finger at higher handicap players. I play off 5 and would play with a wide variety of h'caps on a regular basis, from guys off 5/6/7 in Junior Scratch Cups to fellow members off 20+. I find, if anything, a bias toward lower handicap players when it comes to who holds up play. It's easy to see why. Personally I put alot of thought into a round as I play, take my time decision making/putt reading etc and as such, find that I need to constantly check my pace of play. I manage by speeding up other elements of my round and finding handy little practices like reading a putt while someone else is putting so I'm ready to play when he holes out - things like that.
But for lower/longer guys, if your ball is 20 yards straight ahead of two playing partners, they can get to their ball and set-up in tandem, one playing a couple of seconds after the other. But you can't walk to your ball til this is done so you have to wait, then walk, then pull the club, then set-up.
On top of that you have par 5s you can reach in two, which might require more waiting for safety reasons. (Don't let me hear anyone make the dumb argument that"you're entitled to play your second to a par 5..." - if someone is in range, they're in range - do not hit.)

In short, while some ridiculously hacker-ish beginners might hold up a group, they're only beginners so give them a break. Otherwise I totally disagree that high guys should take the wrap for slow play.

madds wrote: »

What I'd like to know is what have clubs done to battle slow play? Are there any clubs out there who have implemented a system which has sped the time per round up?

A Course Ranger can help but in my experience, few of them know enough about golf or have the required polite but authoritive personality it takes to keep things moving without any grief. Many of them are too shy.

I find that clubs that encourage a culture of saying to the group ahead "you've lost a hole, catch up" in a polite way that doesn't start an argument fair out best. I use the word "culture" because it really is a two way street - the group behind having the sense to be polite without being too shy to say it, the group ahead having the courtesy to realise they have lost ground and accepting that they will need to let the lads through or catch up.

It can be done without arguments.

20goto10 wrote: »

This one is a bit of a misconception. You still have to walk over to the side adjacent to the next tee, whether you do it before or after your shot makes no difference at all. The only difference it makes is that by not doing this people behind you are going to get pissed off at you..

Na. This is a crucial element to get right. Leaving your bag on the tee-box side means you can carry your wedge and putter to the other side, chip and putt and head to the next tee all in a straight line. Brining your clubs means you have to walk around the green which takes much longer.

20goto10 wrote: »

As a high handicapper and a beginner I'd like to point out a couple of things:
1. The courses are quite often overbooked.
2. There is a lot of snobbery and bad attitudes. People see you hacking around and get pissed off at the sight of a beginner, even if you are keeping up with play.
3. Golf should not be hurried.

All good points - totally agree. Slow play is objective. It doesn't matter how you're hitting the ball, if a gap of a hole or so opens up between you and the group ahead you're playing slowly. You can take 15 shots on a hole but if you're on the next tee while the guys in front are walking towards the next green you're fine.

GreeBo · 05-02-2009 10:31pm

I agree the the biggest problem is attitude.

We have a guy in our club who takes a minimum of 2 mins for each shot...then takes off like a bat out of hell between shots. He appears to be always waiting for the others but everyone knows he is a slow player.

The "Rules" for avoiding slow play have been pretty much covered above, most of which is common sense and manners.

I have no problem with someone who take a little longer over each shot but goes around in a couple over, his total time is fast enough for me.

- Loosing balls and walking back drives me crazy. Everyone watch everyones ball and take a line on it. Generally a beginner trait but you do see it from people who have played for years.

- Being ready to play. There are always the guys who never have a tee/ball/club ready on the tee. They should be shot.
- People who amble. Thats fine but let us through. If you have to let more than 3 groups through then you are not willing/capable of playing at an appropriate pace. So play at sunset please.
- Waiting for a green on ashort par4 or par5 is fine with me. Safety first.
- Hitting balls on top of someone to speed them up is far worse than slow play.

We have rangers who drive out in buggies and sit and watch slow groups but as far as I am aware they have yet to say anything to anyone. I've had days where the guys in front have lost 2 holes after 4.

- +1 for Starting on time
I know that in Milltown for one if u are late you are disqualified. End of. I agree with this. Too many players pull into the car park 3 mins before their tee time "shure its always running late"

Man its annoying, huh?

DIEGO WORST · 05-02-2009 11:18pm

While waiting on the tee box of a par 3 one day, guy on green takes 10 practice strokes prior to hitting 30 foot putt, leaves it 10 feet short. Stands up to 10 foot putt, takes another 10 practice strokes, leaves putt 2 foot short, steps over 2 footer, 1 practice stroke, bang, back of the hole. Even though I was standing 165 metres away from the guy, I could hear Butch Harmon preaching pre-shot routine in this guy’s head. That’s the main reason why play has slowed so much in the last 5 years.

WHIP IT! · 05-02-2009 11:48pm

DIEGO WORST wrote: »

While waiting on the tee box of a par 3 one day, guy on green takes 10 practice strokes prior to hitting 30 foot putt, leaves it 10 feet short. Stands up to 10 foot putt, takes another 10 practice strokes, leaves putt 2 foot short, steps over 2 footer, 1 practice stroke, bang, back of the hole. Even though I was standing 165 metres away from the guy, I could hear Butch Harmon preaching pre-shot routine in this guy’s head. That’s the main reason why play has slowed so much in the last 5 years.

I agree - there's definitely a hint of "Sky Sports Syndrome" going on as well.

At the risk of sounding Xenophobic - but I'm sure it's pure coincidence - I have only twice in my life played behind an American(s) golfer(s). First time, it was a threeball of Americans. The next time a 2ball with one American chap (lovely guy as it happened!) with what I presume was his Irish relative.

These were the two longest, slowest days I've ever had on the golf course. The length of time they took for each shot was mindboggling. I have a tendency to get "stuck" over my ball (I'm a waggler!) which is a source of amusement between my pals, but I'm not a slow golfer, I'm always careful to be ready to play, leave bag in appropriate place, walk briskly etc.

But you would have had to see these guys to believe them. Jaw-dropping stuff: Stand behind ball for ages, take 4/5 practice swings, Hit and invariably poor shot. Then stand staring after it as if to say "What? I cant believe I didn't hit a perfect golf shot?!" and then (and this was the straw that broke the camel's back) actually stand there and make more practice swings trying to fix the swing problem.

I've never golfed in America, I dont know if that's par for the course, but a little bit too much tv, methinks...

Dublin Spur · 06-02-2009 12:36am

Personally for me the most annoying type of slow player is the one that takes 4/5 reconstruction swings of the shot he just hit. Trying to locate the cause of his slice/hook etc...

You're walking down the fairway, you look over your shoulder and there he his. Standing in the same spot from where he hit his ball 2 mins ago, swinging away to his hearts content.

So silly and selfish to his playing partners. It's actually quite funny when I think about it now.

ShriekingSheet · 06-02-2009 9:18am

WHIP IT! wrote: »

These were the two longest, slowest days I've ever had on the golf course

Did you ask to play through at any stage? I mean verbally.

Fair enough, many people do not like confrontation, especially not when it comes to strangers on a golf course, but in my experience, if it's said in the right way, most slow groups don't mind when someone has a word and they either speed up or let through.

Where agro starts, many times I've seen it, it's usually not to do with the simple idea of "how dare they ask us to speed up..." but is more instigated by the all too usual practice of the faster group behind hitting drives when the slow players are just about out of range and offering a deathly stare any time the slow player looks back. The faster group might do that for two or three holes, understandably getting more and more frustrated, and by the time they finally say something, the frustration shows and it's less than polite. Regardless of how slow and ignorant the players ahead have been, can you really be surprised if they react badly after three holes of balls being hit up their a*se?

My point is, faster groups behind can be as much a part of the problem as slow groups. Slow play is an objective thing. If the guys have lost a hole without noticing or showing any sign of trying to make it up, having a way of pointing it out to them without annoying people is a great tool for any golfer.

I find doing this works 90% of the time once we haven't been "putting them under pressure" by standing on tees, hands-on-hips with "wudjaEVER hurry-up" body language. Of course, 10% of the time people's egos can come into it and they can react badly. Though rarely, even if they seem miffed, will they continue at a slow pace and not let you through. And once you've been polite and can point to an objective fact that they've lost considerable ground, you'll never be too much in the wrong.

Secondly, if you choose not to say anything, you actually could actually be impacting the whole course. The group behind you are probably also being held up but you have no where to go so they may not see the delay. It's up to the group behind the slow players to do something about it. You're usually the only ones in a position to do so. Fair enough, it can be awkward to approach people but there could be 50 guys you'd be helping out.

GreeBo · 06-02-2009 10:26am

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

My point is, faster groups behind can be as much a part of the problem as slow groups. Slow play is an objective thing.

Its objective to a point. You can be a slow player or you can be slower than the group behind.
Some people want to run around the golf course, that fine for them but *very* annoying for everyone else. As long as the group in fornt of them is behind the group in front of *them* then the fast group have no right to play through.
I totally agree that hitting balls ontop of people is not on. However, sometimes its the only way you have of letting them know that you are there. If the group in front are holding you up, you are never really going to get within talking distance of them as you will always be 1 shot behind. That why they introduced rangers, but the need to introduce balls to the rangers in my opinion.

L.O.F.T · 06-02-2009 12:08pm

I have been a ranger and the opinions being expressed here are for the most spot on. As a ranger my presence to most golfers was an indication to them that they needed to keep their place on the course and be aware of those in front of them. I have on many occasions approached golfers and always being polite asked them to be aware that they have lost ground to the group in front of them and for a hole or two make their ground up. If I felt it necessary I would then go back to a group and ask them to let the group play through for their own enjoyment. You can always word your reasons to groups or individuals so as not to offend and getting 'Balls' as GreeBo puts it is not al ways the best way to approach golfers. Being Polite and not aggressive is the single most appropriate way to address slow play on the course to groups or individuals. As a note, on my course I always introduced myself to golfers on the first tee and encouraged them to have a nice day and be aware of their position on the course and that I would be active on the course. Unfortunately management will allow the maximum amount of golfers on the course with short intervals between groups which ultimately spells trouble on the course especially if you’re unfamiliar with the layout. We will all encounter slow play and may even be guilty of it in the years ahead? But be polite, exercise patience and never be confrontational with a group or member who is willing to having a full blown argument on the course. It will spoil your game and your playing partners will be witness when you lodge a complaint at the end of your round or if you decide to call the pro-shop mid round and have a ranger come out to the course. I can offer no fixes’ to slow play but only give you my insight as to what I have experienced and what has worked for me as a golfer and ranger.

ShriekingSheet · 06-02-2009 12:57pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Its objective to a point. You can be a slow player or you can be slower than the group behind..

In a full timesheet situation, it's completely objective. You're either behind the group ahead or you're not. Obviously, reason needs to come into it where a group keeps pace for 8 holes and loses two balls on the 9th - you give them breathing space and allow them to catch up once again, but other than that, you're either with the group ahead or your not.

Totally agree with your other point that guys playing stupidly fast behind groups who are keeping pace is a pointless practice. Some guys love the idea of coming in saying "X, Y and Z were holding me up all day". I don't get it myself but it's some kind of weird pompous thing they do in some clubs. Like guys who curse loudly after a semi-bad shot, purely to try and give the impression to people around them that they're a better player than they are. Idiots if you ask me.

GreeBo wrote: »

I totally agree that hitting balls ontop of people is not on. However, sometimes its the only way you have of letting them know that you are there. If the group in front are holding you up, you are never really going to get within talking distance of them as you will always be 1 shot behind.

No, this is a bullsh*t attitude IMO. Landing balls in someone's vacinity is both dangerous and very rude. See, this was my point earlier - if you want to get the group ahead to either speed up or let you through, this is hardly the way to start!?
It's a ridiculous excuse to say you don't get within talking distance of them. You can hurry to one of the greens and before putting go over to the next tee (if they're holding you up they'll just be teeing off or just walking off the teebox) and talk to them there. You're playing partner might pull your bag for you while you do it. Or on a short par 4 you might drive the ball within 50 yards of the green where they're putting and just walk over as they're coming off the green.

I accept the fact that I'm not a shy person and others might be less comfortable doing what I'm describing but the alternative, ie: shouting or hitting balls near them, is way out of order and likely to increase the chances of a row and reduce your chances of getting through.

stockdam · 06-02-2009 1:30pm

There are a couple of simple rules.....

1. Be ready to play as soon as it's your turn. Too many people seem "surprised". They start to prepare for their shot when it's their turn. Instead you should be preparing as soon as your get to your ball. Pick your club, pick your target, practice swing.........as long as it's safe and as long as it doesn't distract anyone.

2. Leave your bag on the correct side of the green so that you pick it up as you walk towards the next tee. I often see people walk back to the front of the green to collect their bags.

3. First on the tee box should take the honour if the person who has the honour is straggling.

4. Point number 1 applies on the green. Do all your reading when others are doing so and don't wait until it's your turn. Too many people seem to take ages lining up their putts.

5. If you loose your ball then call the people behind through.

madds · 06-02-2009 2:20pm

Some great points/opinions being discussed here.

My club are setting up a project team in order to tackle the slow play problem, something which I will be involved in.

One of the suggestions made so far is to have a clock installed on the 1st tee so that each group knows whether they are on time when teeing off or if the sheet is already behind.

A second clock will be installed on the 10th tee so that groups will know whether they have kept to the agreed standard time for 9 holes, the thinking being that if a group have played to a good pace on the front 9, they will hardly drop off that pace on the back. If on the other hand the group have lost ground on the group ahead, they will also be able to confirm this by the time on the clock.

Interesting times ahead.

Mister Sifter · 06-02-2009 3:20pm

madds wrote: »

One of the suggestions made so far is to have a clock installed on the 1st tee so that each group knows whether they are on time when teeing off or if the sheet is already behind. A second clock will be installed on the 10th tee so that groups will know whether they have kept to the agreed standard time for 9 holes.

#

I think that's a great idea. The number of times i hear playing partners ask each other what time we started at. Nobody tends to really know exactly how long a round took them by the end. Would like to see this in more clubs.

Stockdam - point 2 i find very interesting also - the issue of honour on tees is an interesting one. I generally would normally play lowest score on the last hole plays first on the next. In fourballs and club comps i find this often just slows things considerably though. If you're ready to go, i'd rather people just hit. The trouble is, some people can take the hump if you do this. At the moment i find that i reach most tees first because i'm carrying my bag. If i'm there i'll just hit. On one occassion recently i heard mutterings from one guy in my group about it being his honour. He was in absolutely no hurry to make sure he was ready to go in good time though.

ShriekingSheet · 06-02-2009 3:27pm

Graeme1982 wrote: »

#

I think that's a great idea. The number of times i hear playing partners ask each other what time we started at. Nobody tends to really know exactly how long a round took them by the end. Would like to see this in more clubs.

Stockdam - point 2 i find very interesting also - the issue of honour on tees is an interesting one. I generally would normally play lowest score on the last hole plays first on the next. In fourballs and club comps i find this often just slows things considerably though. If you're ready to go, i'd rather people just hit. The trouble is, some people can take the hump if you do this. At the moment i find that i reach most tees first because i'm carrying my bag. If i'm there i'll just hit. On one occassion recently i heard mutterings from one guy in my group about it being his honour. He was in absolutely no hurry to make sure he was ready to go in good time though.

I don't know about this. I do it too, if the person with the honour is delayed getting to the tee, but only rarely and I'd ask first. If I'm playing with short hitters I often let them have the honour all day too because they can fire away and by the time they've hit the lads have moved on further so I can hit and we all walk.

It's common sense but be careful in any kind of significant competition because it is against the rules. Honour isn't just ettiquette, it's been recently made a rule that you must adhere to it.

WHIP IT! · 06-02-2009 3:57pm

I agree about the 'honour' thing, but I would always acknowledge that I'm aware that I'm 'breaking the honour rule' by saying "I'll just lash away, alright?" or if it was my honour and I was held up getting to a tee I'l say "Fire away lads if one of yis is ready..."

I can see how some people would get perturbed if you just crack on without mentioning it - although personally it's not something that ever bothers me.

I play quite regularly in Killeen GC in Kildare and last year they made the 6th hole (first par 3, 200yds so most people dont hit the green) a "Call On" hole so if you tee off and another group is on the tee box, you allow them tee off too then both groups go to the green together. You're not necessarily allowing the second group through, it just cuts down on waiting.

Only problem is, there's no sign on the tee box so most people don't realise it. In fact, I completely forgot about it in round myself and neglected to "Call On" the group behind.

stockdam · 06-02-2009 6:40pm

Just to clarify about "honour".

Yes in matchplay you should respect the rule otherwise you may be asked to play again. But I think we are talking about slow play when the course is packed.

In strokeplay or stableford you also need to be careful that you don't change the honour to give somebody an advantage. But if people are behind you and you need to get a move on then the person coming to the tee first should ask everyone if they can play.....play when you are ready is better than delaying.

I agree with letting shorter hitters play first as it can speed things up. I'd also suggest that at times you should forget about trying to hit a par five in two if there are people on the green and you only have a slim chance of hitting it. Better to lay up and use a wedge.

I used to play a lot in societies and they were often painfully slow. I circulated an article I wrote about slow play and etiquette which helped a bit.

WHIP IT! · 06-02-2009 7:24pm

stockdam wrote: »

Just to clarify about "honour".

I circulated an article I wrote about slow play and etiquette which helped a bit.

Still got it, Stock? Would be interesting to see...

Mister Sifter · 06-02-2009 7:48pm

stockdam wrote: »

I'd also suggest that at times you should forget about trying to hit a par five in two if there are people on the green and you only have a slim chance of hitting it. Better to lay up and use a wedge.

I know where you're coming from with this, and i'd do the same in practice but not in a comp. I'd choose what shot i was going to hit over what shot it would be quickest to hit every time, even if it meant holding up my group for a few minutes.

uberwolf · 06-02-2009 8:23pm

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I play quite regularly in Killeen GC in Kildare

see you there! A member for the year

I have found that trying to set the tempo in a group an abject failure, people not even interested (maybe it's my handicap?). Other times the group moves along nicely without comment. I haven't identified the common theme.

I try to stay conscious of our place on the course, with mixed results. But if everyone was just aware of the issue, that would go along way.

GreeBo · 06-02-2009 9:00pm

stockdam wrote: »

I agree with letting shorter hitters play first as it can speed things up. I'd also suggest that at times you should forget about trying to hit a par five in two if there are people on the green and you only have a slim chance of hitting it. Better to lay up and use a wedge.

I let the older lads hit off all the time...though some of them wouldnt be too excited about it and take it the wrong way.

Have to say that I dont agree with playing short instead of waiting. Unless Im out for a laugh, but 99% of my golf is competition golf so I wait. We have 1 dog leg par 4 that you can get very close to if you cut the angle. I always do so I wait. Got a scolding for landing one in a greenside bunker when I was a lad

Some people are just oblivious to the fact that they are slow and have lost holes. Anyone/group can be unlucky and have a slow hole, thats fine as they usually catch up. But people who are slow at the best of times need to be spoken to. Our club was playing with the idea of timing peoples rounds. If your 3 ball is slower than the desired time then you loose the right to use the online timesheet for the first few days that its out. I think if u are on the bold list a couple of times you loose the right to play altogether.
Hasnt come into effect yet, but they had lads on the 10th tee and 18green comparing your start times to your finish times.

stockdam · 08-02-2009 7:49pm

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Still got it, Stock? Would be interesting to see...

I've no idea where it is now but if I find it I'll let you know

stockdam · 08-02-2009 7:53pm

Graeme1982 wrote: »

I know where you're coming from with this, and i'd do the same in practice but not in a comp. I'd choose what shot i was going to hit over what shot it would be quickest to hit every time, even if it meant holding up my group for a few minutes.

It was a generalisiation Graeme and aimed more at those people who have a slim chance of pulling the shot off. I see people waiting until the green clears 250 yards away and I know fine well that they have rarely hit a good shot that far with a fairway wood. I was also aiming the comment at those people whose card has gone but will still play slowly.

fatherbuzcagney · 08-02-2009 8:28pm

I hate slow golf if its in a competition as i like to be in a rhythm, casual golf ,its just great to be out. I think that in cometition golf the tee off time should be recorded on the card of each group and the time of making the last putt on the 9th green should be recorded,if the group is 5 minutes or more off tyhe stipulated pace then they all should incurr a 2 stroke penalty or points, and the same for the back nine. If the group are held up by the group ahead then the penalties not counted.

20goto10 · 09-02-2009 1:29pm

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Na. This is a crucial element to get right. Leaving your bag on the tee-box side means you can carry your wedge and putter to the other side, chip and putt and head to the next tee all in a straight line. Brining your clubs means you have to walk around the green which takes much longer.

Its a rule I follow because I know it really pisses people off. But if you stop and think about it, you're still walking the same distance. You don't need to be a golfer to figure that out.

The difference is, when you're finished your putt you get away quicker. Its good in that respect and its also good to have consistency on the course.

PhilipMarlowe · 09-02-2009 2:17pm

It's not just about distances... if I hit a shot to the left side of the green (i don't miss greens :rolleyes: ) and the next tee is on the right, I'll bring my bag to the correct side near the next tee and use the time to survey the green from that side of the hole on the way to play my shot.
Only if I was furthest from the hole and had to play next might I walk directly to my ball, play the shot and then bring the bag around while it's someone else's turn.

It's so frustrating because seeing the flag being put back in is like a trigger to get ready to hit and then you have to watch the guy (in your 'way') fill out his card and do everything to annoy you even more for those couple of seconds. It's like at a toll bridge.. the guy in front takes 10 seconds longer than he should.. it's not the end of the world but enough to get up your wick at the same time.

GreeBo · 09-02-2009 2:38pm

20goto10 wrote: »

Its a rule I follow because I know it really pisses people off. But if you stop and think about it, you're still walking the same distance. You don't need to be a golfer to figure that out.

Actually you are not always walking the same distance at all.
You can actually be walking further if you leave your bag at towards the tee, but its not the distance thats important, its the time it takes.

Crucially, if you all leave your bags at the same side then you all have the same distance to walk before you have cleared the green. Since you are not going to walk to your bag until everyone is finished it makes it quicker timewise.

Either way, its far better to do your dawdling *before* the people behind are waiting for you and its standard etiquette.

randa wrote:

Be Ready to Play
Players should be ready to play as soon as it is their turn to play. When playing on or near the putting green, they should leave their bags or carts in such a position as will enable quick movement off the green and towards the next tee. When the play of a hole has been completed, players should immediately leave the putting green.

Slow Play

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