The Great Grinder Challenge

RE*AC*TOR

**EDIT** This thread has been split from this one http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055299872 which may explain any continuity problems. The background is that I hastily bought a new grinder and espresso machine. While the espresso machine has glowing reviews, there are hardly any for the grinder. So I am unsure of the quality of the grind.

**ORIGINAL POST**
As I have access to some nice microscopes in work - what I might do is bring in some ground coffee from my mdf and from the grinta and take some photos. Should be able to get some from a mazzer super jolly as well.

Mr Magnolia

I'll send you grindings from an MC2 if you want to compare consistency with those too.

RE*AC*TOR

Yeah - that would be cool. A wee little project.

Khannie

This thread is geekier than anything on the comp forum.

Microscopes!!!!!!!

RE*AC*TOR

Khannie wrote: »

This thread is geekier than anything on the comp forum.

Microscopes!!!!!!!

There ain't nothin geekier than a microscope. Its a proven fact.

Now where did I leave my pocket protector?

rockbeer

Hey RE*AC*TOR, want to focus your microscope at my I2 grindings while you're at it?

RE*AC*TOR

Its as easy for me to look at 20 samples as 2. So no problem.

Obviously we are all going to be grinding different beans which will introduce a variance into the proceedings. I suspect depending on the degree of roast there would be more tendency to create dust (drier beans etc). But there's little we can do about that.

Would be a good idea maybe to send along a sample of the unground bean as well for comparison.

So if you guys are near UCD (Belfield) feel free to drop it in, otherwise I can PM you my address...?

rockbeer

You're right of course, perhaps we need to agree on a standard bean.

Unlikely I'll be near UCD in the near future but happy to post a sample.

Can't really believe I'm even having this conversation!

RE*AC*TOR

Well I'll be getting the Mazzer Super Jolly sample from Insomnia (in UCD) so they'll be using their own beans.

Also I really don't want to waste money on a can of illy that I have no intention of drinking.

rockbeer

Cheers RE*AC*TOR, no problem, think I'll use my usual Ristretto espresso blend. Stuff I have is a bit stale so might wait 'til I get a fresh order.

RE*AC*TOR

I don't know if staleness will be a huge factor.

Mr Magnolia

Should be in the post this evening. Hope my beans/grind stand up to scrutiny.

Mr Magnolia

They're in the post. Looking forward to the report, the results will be interesting.

Let me know if you want to split this experiment off into a new thread and leave this one about your new machine. It might not be a bad idea as this testing will be good reference material for anyone thinking of buying a grinder.

RE*AC*TOR

Yeah - go for it.

Mr Magnolia

Done. Let me know if you want a different thread title etc. If you want to edit that first post and can't let me know.

Khannie

Do you want a sample from my crappy blade grinder?

RE*AC*TOR

Khannie wrote: »

Do you want a sample from my crappy blade grinder?

Go for it! I'll send you my address by PM.

eclectichoney

Sorry but this is the most exciting thread on boards for ages!

rockbeer

eclectichoney wrote: »

Sorry but this is the most exciting thread on boards for ages!

Not joining in then?

eclectichoney

I've no grinder

yet :pac::pac::pac:

Khannie

I've got my two samples ready. Not exactly sure what an espresso grind is, so I did 25g for 17 seconds (12 + 5), then 25g for 20 seconds (this looks like a very fine grind). I'll post them off tomorrow.

RE*AC*TOR

cool they should make a good comparison - no need to send me all 25g though. a couple of grams will be ample.

Khannie

They're already wrapped. Plus, it does give a more complete picture. One of the downsides with the blade grinder (that I've found) is that it always turns some of the beans to a fine powder, which tend to stick around the edges of the container (and clump a bit, presumably from the oils). A sample from the centre might miss that aspect.

Mr Magnolia

Some fun if your 'grind' is the most even of all the samples Khannie.

Khannie

Hehehe.

The tip I took from the starbucks sheet (to shake the blade grinder while grinding) has definitely helped the consistency, but I'd be really surprised. Looking forward to finding out though.

You gonna be posting pics reactor?

RE*AC*TOR

Definetly posting pics. That's kinda the whole point.
On another note, Insomnia don't have a Mazzer Super Jolly anymore, they changed it to some manner of Elektra. But sure, it'll do.

Khannie

Samples in the post. You should have them tomorrow.

RE*AC*TOR

Samples received from Mr M and Khannie. Expecting my new grinder tomorrow.

It could be monday before I can take the pics though.

Khannie

Cool. Looking forward to it.

This is the geekiest thing I've participated in in _ages_ and that's saying something.

RE*AC*TOR

Some smell of coffee in my office now. :pac:

Khannie

nyom. You've convinced me. I think I'll treat myself to a 3rd mug during office hours today. The only remaining question: What to eat with it? Hmmmmm.

rockbeer

My samples went in the post today, hopefully they should arrive tomorrow. Hope staleness won't be a factor, the batch I'm using up is weeks old...

Looking forward to the results...

RE*AC*TOR

I don't think it'll make a difference. Not to the physical grinding anyway.

RE*AC*TOR

Right so.

I will prelude the pictures by saying that I felt that the grind produced by all the burr ginders tested looked broadly similar. I would include in this the commercial elektra that Insomnia use.

Gut feeling from just looking through the grinds was that the MDF and MC2 had a bit more of a propensity to produce some (a small amount really) fines, but otherwise were quite similar to the others. The one exception I would say was that the i2 seemed to produce more "cut" edges. You'll see what I mean from the pics. But based on that I would probably be able to pick out the i2 grind in a blind test. In my limited knowledge, based on these findings, and my knowledge of how burrs should cut coffee under ideal circumstances - I think the i2 would shade things here. They seem the most uniform, with the cleanest cut edges.

Of course the next logical test would be to use the various machines to brew espresso on the same espresso machine. Then we could determine how the grind observed influences the taste delivered.

The whirly blade grinder, unsurprinsingly produced boulders of various sizes. Whereas the burr grinders grinds generally looked flully, these looked more granular.

Lastly, before I put up the pics I'll say its actually quite difficult to take these pics because the grinds want to stick together. So its hard to avoid clumping. So a lot of the pics are of grinds at the eges of clumps. I'll also say I maybe rushed it a little so as to get some done, as it was already overdue. But I've kept the samples and can revist them if needs be.

RE*AC*TOR

Most images taken at 12x, a small few up to 32x.

First up the Elektra commercial grinder (i think its a rebadged super jolly) - Insomnia house beans.

||
||

RE*AC*TOR

Next the Nuova Simonelli Grinta - Indian Peaberry Bold beans - roasted two days ago.

||
|

RE*AC*TOR

Next - the Ascaso i2 - Ristretto Espresso blend beans - Roast date unknown.

||

RE*AC*TOR

Next - the Iberital MC2 grinder - Celebes Toraja Kalosi beans - roasted 21/5/08

Sorry about the white balance in these.

||

RE*AC*TOR

Next - the Gaggia MDF - Indian Peaberry beans - roasted two days ago.

||
|

RE*AC*TOR

Last but not least Khannie's whirly blade grinder - beans (? remind me Khannie).

17seconds grinding:

||





20seconds grinding:
||

eclectichoney

Wow thanks for all the work on this Reactor. It's very interesting to see. It must have taken a good bit of time to do the photos and upload them and everything so cheers

Khannie

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

beans (? remind me Khannie).

Not entirely sure, but I think it was Lidl's finest.

rockbeer

That is amazing, RE*AC*TOR, thanks so much.
Really interesting.

And of course the results are just what I would have expected, with the i2 coming out on top

The output from all the burr grinders does look remarkably similar - it's be a tough job to identify one from the other from the photos, don't you think? Although I see what you mean about there being less 'dust' from the i2 and Elektra. The thing that sold me the i2 was the supposed quality of the burr set - looks like maybe that wasn't just marketing speak.

It would be interesting (if a little impractical) to rerun the test using beans from the same batch in all the grinders.

Anyway thanks again. If you want to do the taste test sometime let us know! Cheers.

Feels like time for an espresso.

Mr Magnolia

Sterling work RE*AC*TOR, fair play.

RE*AC*TOR

I will add one last point. In this test, the Grinta, MDF, and MC2 had beans that were air roasted (iRoast2). There is a suggestion out there that because so much dry hot air is used in this process, the beans dry out more than standard roasting, and are more prone to fractures, hence more "dust". I don't know if this is true, but I get that feeling from my vaccuum brewer, which only tends to clog when I use dark roasted iRoasted beans. If I use medium iRoast, or dark professionally roasted, I don't tend to get this problem.

There may be a case for using the same beans as a more accurate test.

However, I will say that I saw more straight "cut" edges on the i2 than any other machine. They jumped out at me almost. If you look at these photos you can see the flat edges as opposed to the more rounded / jagged ones of the others.

Khannie

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

There is a suggestion out there that because so much dry hot air is used in this process, the beans dry out more than standard roasting

Does a professional roast not use hot air too? Or is it more static air?

RE*AC*TOR

Direct heat. Ie a drum. The iRoast uses a fluid bed (like a popcorn popper), which not only uses the air to apply heat, but also to keep the beans moving.