Failed NCT - Wiper Linkages

Leeside

Car failed NCT due to worn wiper linkages. I was surprised at this as I did I know such items were checked. I assume it must be that the wipers effectiveness could be reduced in time.

I now need to replace them - anyone know if this is an expensive job - both need to be replaced.

HungryJoey

Leeside wrote: »

Car failed NCT due to worn wiper linkages. I was surprised at this as I did I know such items were checked. I assume it must be that the wipers effectiveness could be reduced in time.

I now need to replace them - anyone know if this is an expensive job - both need to be replaced.

What car is it & what year is it ?

towel401

Leeside wrote: »

Car failed NCT due to worn wiper linkages. I was surprised at this as I did I know such items were checked. I assume it must be that the wipers effectiveness could be reduced in time.

I now need to replace them - anyone know if this is an expensive job - both need to be replaced.

well the NCT is a bit overdone so its hardly surprising. I don't think it would be expensive to replace

Leeside

HungryJoey wrote: »

What car is it & what year is it ?

2000 Primera.

bbam

The NCT is a con...
Leave €50 in the front of the car and it'll pass int inspections...

colm_mcm

how is it a con? do you remember how unsafe Irish cars were before it was introduced. you can't say it's overpriced either.

ART6

bbam wrote: »

The NCT is a con...
Leave €50 in the front of the car and it'll pass int inspections...

I know you didn't mean that seriously, but lots of people complain about the NCT "rip off". But spending €50 every two years to identify any faults on your car that you couldn't have seen or known about sounds like a good deal to me.

Wiper linkage? That has to be an unusual one. It should have resulted in odd wiper action that must have been noticeable surely? Not a big deal to fix, and I'd support the NCT in failing on that. Seeing where you're going is quite important:D

spadder

It is a con, how does not having "atha cliath" in tiny letters above a perfectly legible number plate affect raod safety?

towel401

and how does having the completely optional indicator lights at the side of the car being a slightly faded shade of amber make you an unsafe driver? i seen a car get failed over that. if you're feeling lazy you could just hack the side indicators off the car because you aren't even required to have them

basically it is a con - they rev the sh*t out of diesels in an attempt to damage them and various other tricks to give the garages more work for themselves. at one point the "economic benefits" were touted as one of the reasons for the nct, on the nct website itself but that has since been removed. there was nothing unsafe about irish cars in years gone by and the 50 eur fee is just another way of making it more expensive to drive cars.

but unfortunately we will never get rid of the NCT now, and that pesky little swiss company is likely to get a continuous stream of revenue from Ireland for the next 100 years

SV

Of course it's a con.

Why do we have to pay for something required by law anyway?

bbam

bbam wrote: »

The NCT is a con...
Leave €50 in the front of the car and it'll pass int inspections...

This is not the only way...
Lots of small garages will "guarentee" an NCT, how ??. They are "friendly" with the lads in the centre...

Please don't quote safety... I truely beleive the % of cars made genuinely safer by the NCT is slim to none...

Also if you look at the deaths on the road... SPEED, Drink & Drugs kill people, not wiper mechanisms, faded indicators, county on number plate, rust, door closing mechanisms, cracked lenses, cracked glass, headlight alignment and all the other crap they use to rip us off..

Its a CON

Leeside

ART6 wrote: »

Wiper linkage? That has to be an unusual one. It should have resulted in odd wiper action that must have been noticeable surely? Not a big deal to fix, and I'd support the NCT in failing on that. Seeing where you're going is quite important:D

The wipers had been making a squeaking noise for a while before the test but I had fitted new wipers. No noise from the new wipers and it was really wet on the day of the test. Wipers were very effective. The tester may have noticed something when driving from the waiting area into the testing bay.

When showing me the problem he pressed down hard on both wiper arms and since then there is a noise when the wipers are on.

bbam

Leeside wrote: »

When showing me the problem he pressed down hard on both wiper arms and since then there is a noise when the wipers are on.

Hardely a realestic test unless you drive round with some muppet on the bonnet...

Surely it should be a functionality test rather than an acoustic test..

BUT..
He has you cornered now and the stupid law on his side, a good mechanic should put this right reasonably easily...

Steve

Leeside wrote: »

The wipers had been making a squeaking noise for a while before the test but I had fitted new wipers. No noise from the new wipers and it was really wet on the day of the test. Wipers were very effective. The tester may have noticed something when driving from the waiting area into the testing bay.

When showing me the problem he pressed down hard on both wiper arms and since then there is a noise when the wipers are on.

The tester checks the window washer and the wipers as he drives into the bay.
They are actually a pretty essential piece of kit on a car in this country.

It shouldn't be expensive to fix.
If you know what's wrong, you could pick up the parts cheap enough from a breaker.

bbam

Ok I know this is a huge bunch of text but there is a great point here...
the EU directive only requires 2 checks on a vehicle, breaks and emissions..

the other 398 checks are there to catch you out and cost you money..



IRISH DRIVERS ASSOCIATION
C/O 1, ABBEYVILLE, ENNIS, CO.CLARE

Giving Irish Drivers A Voice!

www.irishdrivers.org


Members of the Joint Oireachtas Committee

Ladies and Gentlemen, TD’s Senators and Members of the JOC, we wish to thank you for giving us this opportunity to present concerns from our members on various aspects of Transport. We are grateful and we thank you in advance for hearing us.

Issues that we wish to deal with at this meeting are the following:

1.NCT (National Car Test) which we enclose evidence of the disgraceful performance of this test and the unwarranted treatment of the Irish motorist in connection with same, and the failure of the mid-term review report and the refusal of Ministers to answer our letters and also the incompatibility of the NCT with the objectives of EU Directive 96/96.

2. Penalty Points, which is already covered by Irish Law, the punitive mentality of the Government in relation to penalty points and attempts to usurp the powers of the courts and deprive the citizen of access to challenge these ‘punitive’ measures and deprive the citizen of access to justice and further draconian measures by doubling or trebling penalty points if the ‘system’ is challenged.

3. Condition of the Roads, failure to spend the road tax on the roads, tolls, and the system of road tax, the exploring of the possibility of including road tax in the petrol. Many benefits would flow from this.

We have had thousands of complaints from people in connection with NCT, their staff attitude and behaviour, manifesting itself in rudeness, impoliteness, dismissiveness and inattention to citizens concerns. It has been pointed out to us in numerous circumstances concerning failure of their vehicles which has nothing to do with its safety or its roadworthiness. These would not have occurred had this NCT Company not been given a ‘monopoly’ control of this situation, by the Dept. of Transport. The citizen has been deprived of the benefits of Article II of Directive 96/96 by being denied the choice of having their vehicles tested in conjunction with the service of their vehicles at their local garage. This denial has contributed to the ‘monopoly’ situation which NCT have been afforded and are currently enjoying. The effect of this is that the NCT think they can do what they like and the citizen has little or no redress against them. This dictatorial style attitude from NCT is not acceptable to the Irish Motorist or this Association and this monopoly situation is being used to continually fraud the citizen to the point that it is gone ‘beyond a joke’ and is in our opinion a criminal offence and potentially an infringement of Article 82 of the Treaty of Rome. It is despicable to think that the citizen is to be penalised for not having an NCT certificate when NCT themselves appear to have criminal immunity. It is our belief that the effect of this behaviour is that the Government via the Department of Transport has indicated to SGS, a foreign company brought in by Price-WaterHouse Coopers ‘ come in here to Ireland, and rip off the Irish citizen’. With respect, the Government has a duty to protect its citizens from any type of abuse, potentially or actually from being inflicted on the Irish Citizen. We observe, that notwithstanding the massive complaints from citizens, directly and through this association and documentary evidence through the media, radio programmes etc, the Government and the Dept. of Transport has stood idly by and done nothing to alleviate this abuse, corruption and fraud. PWC was also contracted to set up the mid-term review when they were directly involved in the setting up of NCT which in our opinion involves a conflict of interest. *
The continual high failure rate is attributable to such irrelevant and minor requirements as part of an approximately 400 item check criteria when Directive 96/96 requires only 2 items to be tested, namely brakes and emissions, relating to safety and the environment respectively. Notwithstanding that Article 5 allows Member States to ‘increase the number of items to be tested’, where did 398 other items come from and one would expect these items to be directly related to safety and the environment and not to issues unconnected with these matters.
The Directive refers to ‘tests’ being ‘inexpensive’. By contrast, the NCT have not made the test cost €49, but €49 + €27.50 retest when they are deliberately and with impunity failing citizens vehicles for one purpose and one purpose only, that is to ‘maximise profits’ whilst simultaneously engaging in a criminal activity of ‘frauding’ and making a fool of and at the expense of an already hard pressed, over burdened, over taxed Irish citizen in relation to motoring costs and maintenance costs.
2 year duration to be from the date of test and not the date of registration of the car. Too many complaints from citizens saying cert was given for only one year or 6 months. This is an example of abuse/exploitation of the system and the citizen. How can you backdate a cert with retrospective effect?
Infringement of constitutional rights to peaceful enjoyment of possessions. Freedom of movement = fundamental freedom under Article 39, Treaty of Rome.
Who decided what the number and criteria of the additional 398 items and on what grounds did they feel they were entitled to do so.
Which documents contains a list of all these additional items.
Has the DOT and/or NCT issued a copy of these requirements and/or Directive 96/96 or the Irish Implementing Regulations for this Directive been issued to the Irish Motorist? If not, Why Not?
Democracy. The wishes of the citizens are not being implemented because we are not being listened to!
We, as an Association are requesting the JOC to consider the removal of NCT by not renewing their contract and giving the consumer a better choice by enabling major and local garages to be allowed to become designated vehicle testing centres as per Article II of Directive 96/96. We also consider that without these measures, the Directive is improperly implemented and if necessary we will consider taking this matter up with the European Parliament.


Yours Faithfully,


………………………………
David Russell, Secre

ejmaztec

By some strange coincidence, my wife's 00 Mitsubishi Spacestar failed on the wiper linkages a couple of weeks ago, amongst other things, and I know that they didn't even check this when it went back for a re-test.

Edit. The new linkage cost about €60.

Steve

No offence bbam but why dont you start an new thread on this and stop derailing this one.

bbam

stevec wrote: »

No offence bbam but why dont you start an new thread on this and stop derailing this one.

Good point...
Rant concluded, no offence to OP.

towel401

a permanent NCT bashing thread would be nice.

fitzgese

When I took my Primera for it's NCT test, I was also told it failed on the wiper linkages. Brought it to my mechanic and he said it wasn't the linkage but the spindle that was faulty. A new spindle was €57, and the cost of new wiper linkage was about €27 (each, if you need 2) but I never actually got the linkage as it wasn't needed.

peasant

bbam wrote: »

The NCT is a con...
Leave €50 in the front of the car and it'll pass int inspections...

bbam wrote: »

This is not the only way...
Lots of small garages will "guarentee" an NCT, how ??. They are "friendly" with the lads in the centre...

Its a CON

Warning for bbam.

Ranting and raving is one thing, accusing a public company like the NCTS of criminal behaviour without foundation or proof quite another.

Now everybody stick to the topic

peasant

On topic:

As it so happens, I had one of my wipers (on the drivers side of course) come loose on Thursday, in the middle of a tropical downpour.

Believe me ...functioning wipers are indeed a safety related item !!

spadder

A NCT, NTR, NCP, HSE, ESB, RTE, bashing thread would be great.

Any of the semi-state Quango's or their FF buddies would make a great bashing thread for that matter.

peasant

spadder wrote: »

A NCT, NTR, NCP, HSE, ESB, RTE, bashing thread would be great.

Any of the semi-state Quango's or their FF buddies would make a great bashing thread for that matter.

This isn't the politics forum

Esel

As long as we can have a basher-bashing thread as well!

bbam

peasant wrote: »

Warning for bbam.

Ranting and raving is one thing, accusing a public company like the NCTS of criminal behaviour without foundation or proof quite another.

Now everybody stick to the topic

Fair point... accusations retracted, blood pressure returning to normal.

L1011

Wiper linkage going = wipers stop working. This happens at 120k on a motorway in the rain when you're overtaking someone (arguably if its raining that heavily you shouldn't be but lets not go there) and there's a good chance you're going to die or kill someone. So just because the EU don't require it to be tested doesn't give a good reason to. They *are* an essential safety item. Would you want NCTS to let cars with broken or unacceptably worn seatbelts or lights pass?

Guy:Incognito

ClioV6 wrote: »

Of course it's a con.

Why do we have to pay for something required by law anyway?

Like tax and insurance?

Leeside

MYOB wrote: »

Would you want NCTS to let cars with broken or unacceptably worn seatbelts or lights pass?

In case there is any misunderstanding, I'm not complaining that my car failed the NCT.

The purpose of my opening post was to ask if the repair could be expensive and from what I can gather it may be in the region of €120.

What I find a little disconcerting is that the wipers worked just perfectly before the test. The fact that another poster here, fitzgese, also has a primera which failed on wiper linkages just makes me wonder if the tester looked harder than usual at the linkages because its a primera.

Does the NCT selectively look closer at certain models?

Again I have no problem with the car failing. If my car ends up safer as a result, then I'm happy.

L1011

Leeside wrote: »

In case there is any misunderstanding, I'm not complaining that my car failed the NCT.

The purpose of my opening post was to ask if the repair could be expensive and from what I can gather it may be in the region of €120.

What I find a little disconcerting is that the wipers worked just perfectly before the test. The fact that another poster here, fitzgese, also has a primera which failed on wiper linkages just makes me wonder if the tester looked harder than usual at the linkages because its a primera.

Does the NCT selectively look closer at certain models?

Again I have no problem with the car failing. If my car ends up safer as a result, then I'm happy.

I was responding to bbam, sorry, should have made that clear - his post was too massive to quote though!

bbam

MYOB wrote: »

I was responding to bbam, sorry, should have made that clear - his post was too massive to quote though!

I'm done on this one... The NCTS are a very professional group providing a top class service, we are a safer motoring nation as a result.
Sorry to OP for bringing post OT, wipers should be a cheap enough fix..

towel401

i still think they are the scum of the earth, and do various tests to catch people out and rake in more re-test fees and force people to buy unnecessary replacement parts. if it was just a few basic things i wouldnt mind but there is no need for the carry on they do now.

L1011

towel401 wrote: »

i still think they are the scum of the earth, and do various tests to catch people out and rake in more re-test fees and force people to buy unnecessary replacement parts. if it was just a few basic things i wouldnt mind but there is no need for the carry on they do now.

The test is defined by the state. SGS only carry out what they're told to.

ejmaztec

What's the situation with small vans, the car-derived variety? Do they slip through the net as regards NCTs?

towel401

MYOB wrote: »

The test is defined by the state. SGS only carry out what they're told to.

i'm sure at least some SGS guys sat around a big table with some fianna fail henchmen before defining the test.

and if they only decided to test the 2 required items the FF bigshots would get given out to by their 'european neighbours' for not following the 'spirit' of the mandatory car testing. they would be seen as slackers in europe and unfortunately this would actually bother them. Its just all about sucking up to Europe.

Tropheus

bbam wrote: »

The NCT is a con...
Leave €50 in the front of the car and it'll pass int inspections...

Urban legend.:rolleyes:

L1011

towel401 wrote: »

i'm sure at least some SGS guys sat around a big table with some fianna fail henchmen before defining the test.

and if they only decided to test the 2 required items the FF bigshots would get given out to by their 'european neighbours' for not following the 'spirit' of the mandatory car testing. they would be seen as slackers in europe and unfortunately this would actually bother them. Its just all about sucking up to Europe.

It was defined before the contract went to tender. SGS tendered for a contract to perform an already defined test.

Why do we have a problem in this country of people being obsessed with finding a conspiracy in things?

towel401

MYOB wrote: »

It was defined before the contract went to tender. SGS tendered for a contract to perform an already defined test.

Why do we have a problem in this country of people being obsessed with finding a conspiracy in things?

that doesn't matter. they could still have sat at the round table before any contract was signed. Making people buy replacement indicators because the old ones are faded seems like a reasonable strategy to 'increase the economic benefits' of the test, especially since theres a few factories around in ireland making such menial parts that nobody would replace on their own

L1011

...as I said, searching for a conspiracy.

The contract went to open tender. I have no idea how many groups applied for it, but *any* of them could have won. The test was defined by civil servants, not politicians.

Theres no conspiracy here. You're like an old dog worrying over a bone or something...

Faded indicators are dangerous as you can't tell precisely what they are - turn signals are required to be orange in Ireland and a faded housing means they're not orange. You're required to have orange turn signals on the MOT in the UK and I'd predict on every other car testing system, and new car standards system even in all of Europe.

towel401

MYOB wrote: »

...as I said, searching for a conspiracy.

The contract went to open tender. I have no idea how many groups applied for it, but *any* of them could have won. The test was defined by civil servants, not politicians.

Theres no conspiracy here. You're like an old dog worrying over a bone or something...

Faded indicators are dangerous as you can't tell precisely what they are - turn signals are required to be orange in Ireland and a faded housing means they're not orange. You're required to have orange turn signals on the MOT in the UK and I'd predict on every other car testing system, and new car standards system even in all of Europe.

civil servants who hang with the car-testing industry maybe. there is no way in hell they would just randomly sit down and define a test without any 'outside' assistance. calling me a freaking old dawg isn't going to do you any good and can you even remember the last time someone confused a pair of slightly faded orange flashing lights with a pair of headlights?

it just doesnt happen. just like both wipers flying off at the same time while overtaking doesnt happen. these are nothing more than hypothetical disaster scenarios thought up to peddle an agenda. the heater in my car makes a loud squeaking noise while the fan runs. maybe they should fail me for that too incase the squeaking distracts me. and scratches on the paintwork should be outlawed too in case a tailgater crashes into someone while wondering how the car infront of them got scratched.

Guy:Incognito

towel401 wrote: »

it just doesnt happen. just like both wipers flying off at the same time while overtaking doesnt happen. these are nothing more than hypothetical disaster scenarios thought up to peddle an agenda. the heater in my car makes a loud squeaking noise while the fan runs. maybe they should fail me for that too incase the squeaking distracts me. and scratches on the paintwork should be outlawed too in case a tailgater crashes into someone while wondering how the car infront of them got scratched.

Is the MOT and other European tests also a scam set up by corrupt politicians in bed with companys or just ours?

towel401

Stekelly wrote: »

Is the MOT and other European tests also scams set up by corrupt politicians in bed with companys or just ours?

the other european ones like the MOT are slightly less strict. not sure why, maybe because the nct is a *new* test and they want to overdo it better than anyone else. or else its just that ireland has a huge safety/claim culture thing going on. unlike soviet russia for example where until recently they just didn't care.

Guy:Incognito

towel401 wrote: »

the other european ones like the MOT are slightly less strict. not sure why, maybe because the nct is a *new* test and they want to overdo it better than anyone else. or else its just that ireland has a huge safety/claim culture thing going on. unlike soviet russia for example where until recently they just didn't care.

What has strictness got to do with my question?

Is your whole rant and corruption allegations based around the fact that it is strict? If the leaving cert is more difficult than the A levels does that mean they are corrupt tests set up by corrupt businessmen around a tabel with government officials?

towel401

because testing [and forcing people to replace] small parts like wiper linkages appears to have more to do with 'economic benefits' than safety. there are lots of things like this on the list

the leaving cert is organised by the state itself and isnt outsourced to some other company that makes money from re-tests. or spare parts that will get you through the exam

it isn't so much a conspiracy as it is a scam, since you are likely to get away with driving without NCT for a good while. just helps to extract money from 'honest' people.

Guy:Incognito

towel401 wrote: »

because testing [and forcing people to replace] small parts like wiper linkages appears to have more to do with 'economic benefits' than safety. there are lots of things like this on the list

the leaving cert is organised by the state itself and isnt outsourced to some other company that makes money from re-tests. or spare parts that will get you through the exam

it isn't so much a conspiracy as it is a scam, since you are likely to get away with driving without NCT for a good while. just helps to extract money from 'honest' people.

I think your getting mixed up here, what NCT centre sells you spare parts (and fixes it?) . The MOT on the other hand is done at regular garages and can fix the problems there and then for you . Conflict of interets anyone.

Is the wiper linkage just a viaual recheck or a full retest? because if its a visual , then your whole arguement just disintegrated.

How is the ability to get away with driving the car without an nct part of the scam. Surely theres more money to be made by getting people in on time to fail them and get there retest fees? Plus why have they not made it a yearly test like the MOT to double revenue if thats all it's about?

Anan1

towel401 wrote: »

because testing [and forcing people to replace] small parts like wiper linkages appears to have more to do with 'economic benefits' than safety.

Sorry, but is this a joke? Surely you are not honestly trying to tell us that you can not see the safety implications of worn wiper linkages?

Guy:Incognito

Anan1 wrote: »

Sorry, but is this a joke? Surely you are not honestly trying to tell us that you can not see the safety implications of worn wiper linkages?

Course it isnt. Sure the nct centre will pass you for the €50 and then you can open your window and use a mop in heavy rainfall.

towel401

Anan1 wrote: »

Sorry, but is this a joke? Surely you are not honestly trying to tell us that you can not see the safety implications of worn wiper linkages?

nope. there aren't any, unless someone here wants to come up with another unlikely scenario where an innocent by passer gets killed by a wiper that fell off.

Guy:Incognito

towel401 wrote: »

nope. there aren't any, unless someone here wants to come up with another unlikely scenario where an innocent by passer gets killed by a wiper that fell off.

seriously? How about the innocent bystander (not to mention the people in the car) that gets killed by the driver who cant see out because of broken wipers during rain?


I see we skipped over my post about the MOT being more open to scamming btw. Plus can anyone confirm the wiper linkage is a full retest and not just a visual?

towel401

Stekelly wrote: »

seriously? How about the innocent bystander (not to mention the people in the car) that gets killed by the driver who cant see out because of broken wipers during rain?

when was the last time that happed? its still highly unlikely. less the fool decides to drive on with no wipers.

Guy:Incognito

towel401 wrote: »

when was the last time that happed? its still highly unlikely. less the fool decides to drive on with no wipers.

I dont know, how many people are going to admit they crashed because they didnt get their broken wipers fixed? Or maybe the NCT is making sure people arent driving around with faulty wipers.

there are plenty of fools btw. I was behing a 96 Sprinter van today with no rear lights working. All bar one of the lenses were smashed and most had no sign of a bulb in them, let alone broken ones. I'd say it's safe to assuem that van hadnt seen a recent Doe, or at the very least it's failed one, but the driver hasnt bothered even getting himself some brake lights.


Still no answer on the MOT comparison?