What do graduates in Sport rehabilitation do?

CATSEYES8787

Hi there,

I'd like to have some information about the higher certificate and ultimately the Bsc hon in sports rehabilitation. Are students happy enough with what's taught, the teachers and the career prospects that the course offer? I know it's different from physiotherapy as the course is focused on musculo-skeletal injuries whereas a physio would treat respiratory, neurologic and other general disorders. But doesn't it restrict the working prospects as sports rehabs are less polyvalent than a physio?
In a nutshell, I'd like to know what graduates from this course have become, if they furthered their studies or if they found work easily after their graduated..Besides, I've heard about pre registration physiotherapy masters in the UK as a possible route after this diploma. Has anyone followed that route?
I know many questions but if anyone could shed light on those it'd be great!!!

LOC

hi there!
I've just completed the degree in sports and exercise rehab in carlow!!It's a great course and really enjoyed it i would definelty recommend it!At the moment i am currently trying to find a job,it is tough and really is alot to do with who you know!alot of people im my year are workin with teams in the evenings and weekends treating them there and hoping to build up a clientelle to set up there own clinic eventually!you have to be open to setting up your own business firstly if you are thinking of doing the degree. People from my year are currently working in clinics around ireland which they got from when they did work placement in our final semester. i would not say we are restricted in what we can do compared to physio's as there are alot of sports teams out there who need treatment and rehabilitation. We differ from physios in the way also that we provide alot more attention to rehabilitation and preventing reinjury.From previous experience working in clinics i have been told that some physio's have little experience after graduating on sports injuries and would have problems treating basic injuries initially. This is another advantage we would have over them as we are well prepared in this area following this course.
The majority of my year went on to study physiotherapy in the UK after 2nd year, there all really enjoying it and found the cert in carlow to be a great help to them. After the degree in carlow some people have gone on to do masters in England in physio, sports medicine,radiography etc. so there are many options after the degree also!
If you want any more information dont hesitate to ask i would be more then happy to help!
Best of luck
Laura

Eamie

Hi there,
Thanks for all that nformation Laura It was a big help to me to. Im looking into studying Physiology and health science and then the exercise and sport rehabilitation. I studied nursing in Waterford IT until November and then I dropped out as its just not what I thought it was, Im just to emotional !!
I love biology and I think would love this course but Im worried that its reeealy scientific? Also im worried that it will be really hard to find work because your not a physio, Is this the case or you we be just as qualified in this area? When I think about it, it would be 2013 by the time I would be qualified and the job situation would be alot different by then. Would you recommend the course?, Is it really difficult?
Sorry for all the questions I just dont want to make another mistake.
Thanks Aagain
Eamie

LOC

Hi there,
No problem dont mind answering your questions at all!!it is quite scientific in the first year and second year you do physics,chemistry and biology subjects along with fitness training and anatomy in the first year.These are important to have as a bases to continue through the other years in the course.i never did physics or chemistry in leaving cert just did biology and got on fine there is plenty of help available for students if there is difficulty in certain subjects so dont worry.subjects change each semester so you are not doing the same subjects all year but some remain the same. There will always be certain subjects you dont like but the ones you do like balance them out:)at the moment the majority of my year are working as sports rehabilitators which is great:):)its becomming more and more recognised!if you want to work in the area you will!Physio's and Sports Rehabs are different as physio's deal with the hospital side of rehabilitation and many others., but sports rehabs deal with those in the area of sport and exercise as well as those who have injuries like breaks, tears,accidents etc.
I think the best thing for you to do would be to maybe go to Carlow and have a look around the college and speak to the course director. Her name is Paula Rankin. They would be delighted to show you around and answer any questions.
The course is tough and you do have to stay on top of things as it can be quite competitive to get into the 3rd year of the course and there are limited places.But it varies every year who wants to go on to the 3rd and 4th year.
I think you should give it a try and do the cert at least and you may have more of an idea of what you would like to do then as there are many options after that e.g. dietics,radiology,physio,nutrition, sports and exercise rehabilitation (carlow) to name a few. many of these require going to england.
Just to give you an idea of what people are doing who graduated from my course:
Sports Rehab with Leinster Mens Rugby team,
Working in nursing homes providing exercise classes to elderly throughout ireland i.e. aerobics etc
Lecturing
Working in Clinics and Sports Teams
Working in Gyms and teaching classes.
These are just a few of the jobs!!

If you have any more questions just let me know!

Happy Christmas
Laura:)

stokes78

first best of luck with choosing your college course.I think its important to realise that courses like the one in Carlow are really only going to be an advantage to you if you use it as a stepping stone to a university course in the health fields in the uk after you have completed it.This idea that Laura is giving you about the course producing "sports rehabilitators" who suddenly are in huge demand in the prevention,diagnosis and management of musculoskeletal and "sports" conditions/injuries because Physios{ie chartered physiotherapists with 4 year UNIVERSITY degrees which for the last 15 years has always been at least in the top 5 highest entry CAO points course} dont have the skills to work in the musculoskeletal/sports arena is laughable.Each chartered physio undertakes at least 1000 hours of supervised clinical practise{with real patients}in the final 2 years of their degree which on average will include at the very minimum 120hours{4 full weeks} of musculoskeletal supervised clinical asseesment and treatment as well as a far superior university based level of theory and practical lectures and classes.There are no such things as sports injuries in isolation ie calf pain playing golf is unfortunarely not always due to a muscular local problem{"sports injury"} it can just as readily be the early warnings of a progressive neurological or vascular condition or a component of a spinal or biomechanical dysfunction.The importance of that is you need to have the knowledge and clinical and practical skills to take a resoned history identify hypotheses.carry out a wideranging{muscular,orthopaedic,neurological,vascular,functional}clinical exam and piece it all together to reach a diagnosis and plan and implement a progressive management plan or refer on for further investigations if it is in fact an undiagnosed medical condition masquereding as a "sports injury". Chartered physios typically spend 3 years as juniors after qualifying to gain experience building up skills with recognised weekend courses and if they decide they then want to specialise in the field of musculoskeletal/"sports" they would normally need to pursue a 1 year full time{2 year part time}masters in musculoskeletal/sports to have credibility amongst their peers before embarking on a career in private practise or professional sport.Also to say that chartered physios do not work on injury prevention is another rnonsense statement.If you google any common "sports injury" at least 80% of the articles or papers that you will find concerning diagnosis,treatment and prevention will be by specialised musculoskeletal physios{called physical therapists in the US and Canada} I doubt if any will be from "sports rehabilitators".No professional.semi professional or even ambitious amateur sports team or individual would ever dream of having anyone but a chartered phyio and preferably one with a masters qualification manage their prevention, assessment and treatment of injuries.For example for the last 10 years all teams in the english premiership are required to have chartered physiotherapists which was implemented by the Players football association because of what they saw as a poor level of servce they had been receiving from non chartered "sports therapists" I saw a brochure a few months ago on a board in a gym down the country by a "sports therapist" advertising her wonderous skills and on it in bold print she said she had completed some of her training with " a chartered physiotherapist"!!What a joke.I think sso unfair that ITs dupe kids into these courses on the pretence that you have a career at the end of it when all they care about is getting the numbers in.It also annoys me that their graduates genuinely believe they are more qualified to provide a musculoskeletal service than a charted physiotherapist and are never slow to annonce this" fact" and chartered physios are normally too polite to point out the stupidity and ignorance of such a claim.If you really fancy a career in musculoskeletal/sports sector there is no short cuts and you would be better investing your time in securing a physio place inthe uk and eventually once you have few years experince move on to do your masters at least then you know you are doing your best for your clients not taking their money and giving them a mickey mouse service.Best of luck with it, you are obviously very young and intelligent so you will have a great career whichever path you choose

kob29

Hi,
This a debate which I think here is only just starting. Truth is these professions have been seperate in the USA for a long time with physical therapists and athletic trainers. Degrees specialising in musculoskeletal injury and rehab are just new here and relatively new to the UK even and developed because of the very fact that Physiotherapy is such a wide and huge area and some want to specialise in the musculoskeletal aspect.

Sports therapy is currently well advanced in the the regulation process with the government body the Health Professions Council in the UK which will official recognise and protect the title and role of the Sports Therapist alongside the other health professions like physio, OT, medicine, dieticians etc, because of the fact that it will be a degree only profession there within 2 years. This is also the route that physiotherapy has taken in the past in order to protect the role and the title. Even the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy in the UK have acknowledged that undergraduate physios are minimally prepared for work in the sports field with the content of degrees specifically designed to service the needs of the NHS, so those physios wanting to specialise in musculoskeletal disorders do postgrads in sports physio or manipulative therapy.

We are just a few steps back from that in Ireland at the moment but we do typically follow on the UK in things like this and nobody is disagreeing that there are all sorts of courses out there that arent worth the paper they're written on. But it is the norm for areas to diversify and specialisations to emerge, like now you can do a part time degree in Physical Therapy in Ireland with IPTAS, a fulltime degree in DCU in Athletic Therapy and Training and of course the well established Carlow IT rehab degree also. They just all have varying specialisations but will be developed by and professional bodies.

Graduate sports rehabilitators are mainly self employed and probably not on a fulltime basis for a long time as it takes time to build up clients but they are also employed by Chartered Physios in clinics. Remember too that there are not too many chartered physios willing to provide sports massage or ongoing 1st aid/injury cover to sports clubs at weekends and week night training sessions so there is definately a place for these positions and it must not become a 'looked down upon' situation amongst several professional professions.
I played on a team a couple of years ago and had one teammate who was a physio and one a sports rehabilitator and the latter was much more adept with musculoskeletal injuries and was more than prepared and qualified to identify situations where referral for neurological assessment or orthopedic assessment.

SO I wouldnt have any doubts about the Carlow degree if you are prepared for the realities of the job situation afterwards.

stokes78

I agree it is well worth raising these issues.The nature of society and especially academia is that there will be a constant drive to develop which is a wonderful thing and the reason that we constantly seek to progress our skills and knowledge throw ongoing professional development throughout our clinical careers. Specialisation is a vital advancement of any profession but the idea that "sports therapists" or "sports rehabilitators" or other such creatively tilted courses are presently or at some junction in the future will provide this specialisation is just downright wrong and shamefully misleading for any individual who might be looking for true realistic information to make an informed choice on their third level choice.The specialisation in musculoskeletal/sports already exists and has existed for at the very least i would say 20 years in ireland and certainly longer in Australia and Canada as a specialisation within the field of physiotherapy and for doctors in sports medicine.For at least this period of time post graduate masters with a huge practical,clinical and theory basis have been available to physios who after gaining a few years pertinent experience after qualification decided to choose musculoskeletal/sports as their SPECIALITY.The progression of sports medicine as a recognised SPECIALITY in medicine is similiar and indeed Trinity's sports medicine masters each year had an even split of doctors and chartered physios who each had more or less identical "pre med" undergraduate training{anatomy,physiology,physics,chemistry etc} but then obviously brought different skills and knowledge basis to a masters program.For example on average doctors would have better radiological and practical physiological/biochemistry knowledge than chartered physiotherapists because they basically would use that information more often{specialist respiratory/medical chartered physios obviously also would} while chartered physios who already had musculoskeletal interest would again on average have better practical anatomy/biomechanics knowledge and better manual/examiantion skills{docs would be better on cardiac/abdominal exam}.So this worked excellently because both professions were built on a strong general education in their undergrade and brought their extra skills to a masters where they could learn off each other and develop complimentary SPECIALISATIONS in their already existing university gained professions{physio and medicine}.So specialisation is not new but certainly as masters programs concerned with the musculoskeletal speciality develop for example as you mention manipulative and sports masters the quality improves which should be the aim of all academic programs as the evidence base for diagnosis,management and prevention develops{thanks to a large extent to Chartered specialist sports physiotherapists research }There can not be specialisation if you do not already have an excellent basis in the basic sciences,in anatomy/physiology/biomechanics/etc and in general practise.At the end of the day there is no such thing as a sports injury and there is absolutely no way that you can identify the presentation that looks like a typical sports injury if you do not have clinical and academic exposure to general practise{medical/neurological/orthopaedic/paediatric}It also suggests that "sports injury rehabilitation" knowledge and clinical skills are in some way easy to master and dont require the same degree of academic and clinical achievement as for example stroke management or respiratory management in Itensive care.Chartered physiotherapists who work in these areas choose this as their speciality just as some of their colleagues choose a Musculoskeletal speciality.The comparison with the states is and I am sure you realise it incorrect.Physical therapists are by definition concerned with whole field of rehabilitation just like ireland,uk,canada,australia,new zealand etc where they differ is that they have no respiratory component which is a benefit not a drawbackof all other physiotherapy university undergraduate programs.To suggest that athletic trainers take the physical therapist role in musculoskeletal speciality in the states is completely incorrect.Physical therapists in the states have a very similiar Musculoskeletal SPECIALISATION as ireland,australia etc.To suggest that the quality the iTs are producing on these health/sports related courses is similiar to an athletic trainer in the states is laughable.I am sure DCU will produce good athletic trainer graduates who certainly will be light years ahead in knowledge and skill base of what the ITs are producing but they certainly will not compare to specialist musculoskeletal Chartered physiotherapists who have gone through the process outlined above but they will be a welcome addition to the field.As it is at the moment specialist musculoskeletal chartered physios work closely with musculoskeletal podiatrists,sports docs,sports scientists and dieticians as we all bring high level of skill in our specialist profession to a client and i imagine with time Athletic trainer grads will also reach this level.The beauty is it lets us all learn from each other.The idea that what the ITs are shelling out as "sports therapists"","sports rehabilitators", "Physical therapists", "neuromuscular therapists" or whatever other title you think up over a few pints will have an equal place amongst those musculoskeletal specialists is fundamentally flawed as they do not have anywhere clse to the same level of undergraduate training and most certainly bring nothing extra to a rehabilitation scenario in "sports" or anything else.That is the reality and to suggest that because they achieve some form of statutory recognision will change that fact is either naive or more than likely another attempt to cloud the issue for everyone.Statutory registration as you well know I am sure is purely to regulate an organisation it will have absolutely no influence on somehow magically have a third rate pseudo qualification suddenly taking the specialist role in "sports" that is already been occupied and continually advanced by SPECIALIST MUSCULOSKELETAL CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPISTS.As for the comment that one of your team mates was "better" than his chartered physio colleague well that is about as anecdotal and non relevent as you can get.Also i know of no chartered physiotherapy practise that employs graduates from these courses to treat clients and if they do then that is completely negligent and unbelieviably dishonest to their clients.That of course does not mean that people may not make an excellent living from working as a "sports rehabilitator" due to their personality,business acumen and basic skills and to be honest I wish them the best of luck.All I am saying is if you have some huge burning desire to be a "physio" in professinal sport and your life will not be complete until you are then dont let some second rate academic institution con you in to 3 or 4 years in one of the above courses on the basis that you can achieve your ambition with their "qualification".Just use it to try and move on to do physio in the uk and progress through the established chartered physiotherapy SPECIALIST MUSCULOSKELETAL path.At least then you will actually have the skills you are claiming and be in an environment to continue to develop them throughout your career.Its no different than if you want to defend murderers in court you will not be able to do it if you are a legal secretary or if you always wanted to pull out teeth you wont be able to do that if you remain as a dental hygenist.That in no way degrades those excellent professions but is simply the truth.Everyone will be appalled at the idea of a legal secretary or dental hygenist doing a job they are not specialised for but for some reason for these crazy scrap the barrel so called qualifications people seem to think they will have some magical specialist role that REAL SPECIALISTS chartered specialist musculoskeletal physiotherapists have for years strived to provide a quality evidence based service to.Its a disgrace.

Eamie

I am absolutely gutted to hear that degree be put down so harshly because im so torn apart about my CAO and this is all have considered. People have studied for 4 years to become sport rehabilitators but you feel this is just a complete waste and that it is just some creative title? Its a qualified physio that is over the department so is it a waste of her career to be lecturing in this? Im not in anyway disputing what your saying because im still looking into it so im not sure about all the ins and outs, but i dont want to be a physiotherapist because i studied to be a nurse for three months and just a few weeks ago left because i hate hospitals and dealing with seriously ill people,im just not strong enough as a person to deal with it and that environment. I really didnt feel that this was a micky mouse course because is seems to have a good reputation, its registered with the BASRAT and is as recognised and qualified as the reabilitation degrees in the UK. Are you basically saying that if you do this degree you wil have nothing from it? no career no prospects or opportunites to further yourself? We (postgraduates) are led to think by the IT that this degree can give us a career with equal opportunities and recognition in the field of exercise and sport rehabilitation as those physios who have specialised in this area. How could they continue this course to degree level if its not worth the paper its wrote on? I agree entirally with what you are sayiny in regards other courses I mean there are loads of courses doing certs in sports therpy, sports injury, diplomas by ITEC in sports consultancy, which mean nothing and those qualified probably shouldnt be dealing with clients straight off because they dont have the guidance or experience but is it really fair to put this course in the same class? Its a recognised degree. Its the only rehabilitation degree in the country so its not like every second person is doing it? Do you really feel that it should be avoided? The training in the college is properly taught so physios should be able to hire them to work with them as they are competant practitioners. Also the competition to get into three year is very tough as there is only 20 places on the degree.
Secondly you seem to have alot of knowledge and interest in this field so do you feel that this course would meet the requirments of the teaching council to teach biology? There is a lot of science and biology based subjects in the course content and we have placement in the final semester that would cover the exerprimental requirement. This would be a great option too. I hope that you can help me shed some light on this area thank you

stokes78

Hi,
listen I am certainly not trying to upset you I am just trying to point out the facts.You will NEVER be a specialist in sports/musculoskeletal field with this degree.NEVER.Just like i said before a dental hygenist will never be a specialist in pulling out teeth regardless of how many years they have been a dental hygenist and regardless of how often they saw the dentist do it or read books about it.They will only be a specialist in pulling out teeth if they use their excellent qualification to go back to university to study dentistry and then when they qualify as dentists they can pull out all the teeth they want and develop as specialists over time.And even better Im sure their skills as dental hygenists would make the first few years back in university studying dentistry a little bit easier because they would have some knowledge already that their classmates who came straight from leaving cert would not have.This is EXACTLY the same for graduates from any so called "sports rehab", "physical therapist" course. It will give you some limited information and maybe if you are lucky very very limited skills which might give you an opportunity if you come in the top 3 or 4 in your class and have developed a portfolio{e.g working with johns ambulance, spending time with a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST observing their management of clients etc} a chance to go on and study to be a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST in the uk or maybe even jordanstown I think they give one or two places a year to the top Carlow grad.The limited information and skills you would have gained would certainly put you ahead of those coming in straight from scholl which would give you a good start and a chance to work harder academically than you ever thought you could and qualify as a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST.After that you can get stuck in to the specialisation path outlined in earlier posts for SPECIALIST CHARTERED MUSCULOSKELETAL PHYSIOTHERAPISTS{will take yyou at least 6 years after you qualified as a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST} and eventually be in a position to have a cv that any Private practise,private hospital,teaching hospital.university,professional sports team{premiership soccer rugby etc} or professional athlete{golf,tennis,formula one} when they read it will be excited about interviewing you to have your SPECIALIST skills which will be skills that very few other people relatively have.That is the ONLY way to become a SPECIALIST and be recognised by other professionals and those in the musculoskeletal/sports industry as a SPECIALIST.After reading what i have just posted and my other posts how couls you possibly think like you said in your post earlier that""sports rehabilitator" graduates would be recognised as chartered physiotherapists"How could that statement possibly make sense.It is a plain lie and if people in authorithy on a course in an iT are saying this to students to get them in the door then I think that should be brought to the attention of the iT authorities and I would wonder if students who signed on to a course on the premise that they would on qualification have equal status with Chartered physiotherapists in the fields of musculoskeletal/sports would be in a position to take legal proceedings against the IT for false advertising and therefor breech of contract{any legal heads have views on this I certainly dont have that kind of knowledge}
As a last analogy i would put it this way.If you read in the paper that there was a new course in an IT calling itself "criminal prosecuter" and it said that you could do it and then when you finished the course in the IT you would be more qualified to practise criminal law in a courtroom{i.e prsecute/defend drug dealers,paedophiles,murderers} than a fully qualified solicitor who had a basic university degree,took extensive challenging entrance exams for solicitor college{Blackhall place},then spent 2 years training to be a solicitor both academically and practically with fully qualified solicitors, and then passed extremely difficult and competitive exams{ie not everyone will pass} before they eventually qualifed WHAT WOULD YOU THINK?Would you think that somehow this could be a possibility and that this could be a good course to do?Would you think that REAl solicitors actually were not specialists in criminal law{not even Matlock!}because in their training they spent time also studying business law,family law,tax law etc as well as criminal law and therefor there was a need for Specialists in criminal law and an IT course with a fraction of the entrance points neccesary for the real thing was going to be the place to provide it?I think it fair to say you and everyone else would thing it was a ludicrous concept and also hugely dangerous because completely unqualified people would be claiming to have skills they just did not have and real people{their clients}would suffer hugely because of this.Well that is EXACTLY the same as the idea that "sport rehabilitators" have any standing in sports/musculoskeletal fields.LUDICROUS and DANGEROUS
I hope this helps you make your decision.If the head of the course is a chartered physio that is a disgrace.The course is purely an opertunistic attempt to get students into the IT.yOU say the graduates are properly trained but how could that be if they are not been lectured to and carrying out clinical practise with SPECIALIST MUSCULOSKELETAL CHARTERED PHYSIOS.To put it plainly the lecturers are certainly not specialists and if some chartered physios are actually lecturing on the course and selling the story that graduates will be equal to chartered physios then that is disgraceful.IT is just lies.The course will allow you work in gyms and do bits and pieces in sports but always at the bottom of the ladder.You asked why a SPECIALIST MUSCULOSKELETAL CHARTERED PHYSIO wwould not employ a graduate from the course.The reason is they are in no way qualified or capable of doing what you say the course is claiming and to employ tem would be negligent to their patients
I hope this helps best of luck

Eamie

Hi if you dont mind me asking what do you even work as? I mean you really do sound annoyed about this situation. All the graduates from the degree seem happy enough and yes there are some out of work and looking for jobs but its the same with physios. How could this be a recognised level 8 honours degree with no meaning or purpose? And i dont think there any difference in ITs and Universities so I dont understand why you have raised this as an issue. How do you know that the graduates arent as qualified in this area as physios? I mean they have a much wider scope to cover, while sport rehabilitators are litterally focusing on this particular area there for spend more time learning about this area. You seem to beleive that unless your a physio who has specialised in this area your worth nothing. I really would like to understand why you feel this is worth nothing?

LOC

Hi Stokes, I Would just like to clear things up about the whole Physio and Sports Rehab differences. I firstly would like to say that i completely respect Physiotherapists as i would hope you would do with Sports Rehabilitation. I may have expressed my way incorrectly to the individual enquiring about the course in Carlow or you may have picked me up wrong. I was merely trying to express that musculoskeletal injuries are one of our main areas of study and did not mean that we are better than physios in this area.I am aware that alot of chartered Physios do not agree with our course but it is a degree level 8 Course and we have studied for 4 years so we did have good quality skills finishing college and would never go out of our depth, we would always refer an individual on if we feel we do not have the necessary qualifications i.e. to a chartered physio, consultant etc.
Apologies if i have appearred to make my self sound any other way.If you want to speak further about this. Feel free to leave a comment and will reply.

Best of Luck in the future

stokes78

Thanks LOC I respect everyone I come in to contact with regardless of what job they do or if they have a degree or if they are millionaires.It does not bother me.The only reason I went to the bother of registering on this site and posting was because the poster who had completed the course in carlow blatantly lied to the person who started this thread by saying that in the musculoskeletal/sports field of practise "sports rehablilitators" after graduating would have equal standing with CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPISTS who qualified from a UNIVERSITY degree course in physiotherapy in ireland ,uk,aus,nZ or as a physical therapist in the states.This is just NOT true.I have tried to outline the overwhelming reasons for this in my other posts.After u qualify as a "sports rehabilitator" you will NOT have and will NEVER EVER EVER have even if you live to be 200 an equal standing with CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPISTS not to even mention SPECIALIST MUSCULOSKELETAL CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPISTS.This is not me been arrogant or not respecting the graduates from Carlow.I am simply pointing out the FACT.If a dentist opened a thread and said that he really respected what dental hygenists did but that if they did not go back to university to do dentistry then they could not claim to be anyway as qualified as a dentist to pull out teeth would you also think he was been unreasonable and disrespectful?

If somebody opened a thread and said they had done a level 8 equine science degree and because of this they were now equal or even more qualified than a University trained vet to treat racehorses would you think that sounded correct?

I dont know what level 8 degree means.That is my problem and my ignorance so sorry.What I do know is that it is NOT equivalent to a UNIVERSITY DEGREE{which I never heard of having numbers by the way but I may be wrong}.How can it be equivalent?Why is it not called carlow university then?Why did I have to work my ass off in leaving cert to get 575 points to luckily scrap in to physiotherapy in an Irish university.The Carlow course was available when I did my Leaving and I cant imagine it required any more than 400 points to get in.The reason it existed was to give people a second chance to get a degree in a somewhat relevent field and then try to use it to get into PHYSIOTHERAPY in the UK and hopefully be strong enough to get through and become a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST.I know a girl who went this route and is now an excellent excellent Chartered PHYSIOTHERAPIST and interestingly enough not in the musculoskeletal/sports field.The majority of people in my class of less than 40 got more points than me and at least 25% would have got the MAXIMUM points you can get in yor leaving certificate 600.The only course I prob could not have done in any university in the world with my points was actuary{cause i was not great at honours maths} and that law one in trinity combined with some foreign langauge{cause I was not great at languages].Any other high point course vetinary,dentisty medicine whatever if I didnt get it on the first round{unlikely} I would have got it in later rounds.This is not me boasting I am simply stating facts.I wanted to be a musculoskeletal physio cause I played a good bit of sport when i was a kid.By working as hard as possible I got the points i needed to do it and followed the career path I outlined in my previous posts to where I am at now.I do not consider myself a specialist in musculoskeleta/sports even though i am a CHARTERED PHYSIO with nearly 10 years experience since graduating with an honours degree from a UNIVERSITY ,an INTERNATIONALLY REGOGNISED and HIGHLY RESPECTED MUSCULOSKELTAL MASTERS and at least 5-6 years working in the Musculoskeletal/sports field.The reason I dont is because there are even more qualified and experienced chartered physiotherapists much much more highly respected and with far better Cvs than me.But I aim to get to that level in time by doing more post graduate UNIVERSITY study and continued professional development and experience.How can you wonder then why it makes me angry to have someone with a IT degree of absolutely no standing in the real world comparable to a UNIVERSITY PHYSIOTHERAPY degree come on and call themselves equals to the likess of me in a professional sense?

As i have said the degree in carlow will give you eccellent career opportunities as you outlined in an earlier post eg first aid,local sports teams, lecturing on IT course,sports development officer,health promotion officer,opening your own practise and letting your clients decide your value.These are all excellent but it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to have someone do the course only because they think that they will be equally qualified as a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST and that if a head of rehabilitation position at Liverpool is advertised in the paper that they can send off their CV and are as likely as a real CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST to get the position.As i have tediously outlined this is LIES LIES LIES.Would you not at least acknowledge that FACT?.

If people are still not convinced and think that I am just some bitter elitest who is sick because there was actually an infinitely easier route to becoming a SPECIALIST and that he is gutted he didnt take the it carlow route then there is an easy way to prove me wrong.All anyone has to do is contact the Irish rugby union{IRFU}, the Football association of ireland{FAI}, a few english premiership soccer clubs{Liverpool, man utd etc} the lawn tennis association in england who run wimbledon tennis or any other high profile professsional club or individual{if u happen to have Nadals no} and ask then straight up if they would hire you ahead of a CHARTERED physio to be their rehabilitation SPECIALIST and see what they say.Try and get them to send you an official letter outlining that they would hire you over a chartered physio, scan it on to the thread here, and at least then you might start deserving a little bit of credibility.So go and do that if I am so wrong.Of course you know that not in a million years will you be able to achieve it because you know they would not touch you to be a specialist ahead of a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST.

Please go and do that and show everyone on here that it is actually me who is lying.Also email a link of this thread to the head of the course in Carlow please and if it is true as the other poster says that she tells prospective students and students in the course that they will have equal standing professionally as ChARTERED physios let her post her views officially on here and give us a reasoned explanation for them,because nobody else rightly seems to be able to because it is a BIG FAT LIE.

All I am looking for is a retraction of the statement that "sports rehabilitator" from Carlow have an equal standing in the profeesional world as CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPISTS.After that I dont care about the quality or otherwise of the course and I wish everyone all the best and I hope they make a fortune from their careers and the best of luck to them.I just dont see why it is okay to openly lie in relation to neccesary qualifications,skills, experience in the musculoskeletal field to be considered a specialist whilst it would not be tolerated or even considered in fields such as Law,vetinary or dentistry for example.Please explain that to me.Thank you

Rogueish

Stokes 78

There is no need for a retraction from Laura.

Check out your Degree Parchment

Both the Sports Rehabilitation and the Physiotherapy Degree are Level 8 HETAC Approved Honours Degrees And yes it is equal in status to your very sacred University Degree. If you have a problem please take it up with HETAC they issued your university degree.

I appreciate your point of view but it makes very difficult reading when you have no Paragraph breaks. So I apologise if I have missed out on any relevant points.

Many professional clubs recognise that Chartered Physiotherapist and Sports Rehabilitators have similar but different qualifications in the same field and employ them as part of a holistic prevention, treatment and rehabilitation TEAM.

Currently the FAI have issued a statement that recognises Sports Rehabilitation, Chartered Physiotherapists and Athletic Trainers on the same par. I have the letter if you would like a copy.

As for sending the link to the head of the course I will bring it to her attention when college starts back. By the way she is also a Chartered Physiotherapist with a masters in Sports Medicine. In all we have 4 Chartered Physiotherapists on our lecturing staff with 3 of them qualified to Masters level and one to PhD. Along with 4 Sports Rehabilitators 2 of whom have Masters in Sports Physiology from a 'real' university and the other 2 are currently pursuing Masters in various areas.

Maybe you would like to come down and visit our facilities?

We have no deluded ideas of being the second coming of the Physiotherapy world. We have an overlap with Phsyiotherapists in the area of musculoskeletal assessment, treatment and rehabilitation. Those of us who have an interest in the other specialist areas of physiotherapy such as cardiorespiratory, neurology and many other areas that are particular to your profession go on to further study such as a Masters in Physiotherapy or go and pursue physiotherapy as an undergraduate course.

We spend 4 years concentrated study on musculoskeletal disorders. We are trained in the recognition, assessment, treatment and subsequent rehabilitation of musculoskeletal disorders. We are also trained to recognise issues that need further referral to a Chartered Physiotherapist or other relevant medical professional. We do not decide that we are a one stop shop for all your physiotherapy needs.

All of our graduates undertake clinical placement both at home here and abroad with Chartered Physiotherapists, Sports Rehabilitators and Athletic Trainers.

Sports Rehabilitation was set up by Chartered Physiotherapists in the UK in response to a niche in the market so to speak. They recognised that Physiotherapy as a profession has a very broad sweep and the undergraduate course did not address the area of sports science and how it relates to musculoskeletal therapy in an elite athlete. Hence Sports Rehabilitation was born.

The role of the Sports Rehabilitator is very specific. You can check it out on the BASRaT website www.basrat.org.

stokes78

Thanks Roquiesh I will give the paragraph thing a go.I didnt realise it said level 8 on my degree but then i cant read latin.Delighted to hear that the university status is now purely ceremonial and is of no value to an institution.I assume this means that they will now just rotate the title university between them all.So next year it will be Trinity IT and Carlow UNIVERSITY is that what you are telling me?That must be the case cause obviously there is no such thing as UNIVERSITY status anymore now that all level 8s are equal.Someone should have told DCU this was going to happen I remember been told they put in huge effort to get UNIVERSITY status and all for nothing all bastions of third level education are equal at last thanks to level 8{thank god the french revolution was not in vain}

Dead right chartered physios in the uk and here saw a "niche" in the market for a sports rehabilitator course-a niche to make an academic career for themselves and fair play to them.Just like those who run "Physical therapy" programs in ireland saw a niche to exploit the lack of protection of the title here to make money.The fact that chartered physios lecture on the course is their professional perogative and good luck to them but it is opportunistic attempt to have an academic career.Do you think they would stay if the opportunity to lecture on a Chartered physiotherapy program arose.Chartered physios also lecture on similiar courses throughout the country for example in Sligo IT so there is nothing unique about Carlow.Its the benefit of having a recognised university{sorry I know its a defunct term now I am a slow learner}degree that lecturing opportunities outside your own profession exist.The unique aspect of Charterd physios involvement in Carlow would be if they were informing their students that "sports rehabilitators" had equal professional standing with chartered physios.

The Fai letter is definately interesting.Can you scan it on here to broaden my horizons?Interesting that they would take a different stand point from the premier league where 99% of their international players would be employed.As you say sports rehannlitators have had even longer in the uk to show their "skills" and yet the premier league as i previously stated in an earlier post require clubs to have chartered physios run their rehab centres{niall quinn was a leading figure in the Players football association at the time}.Also strange that they would not follow olympic council practises{charterd physios at olympics} and IRFU.Although in the DDSL{dublin district soccer league} they appear to employ a "Physical therapist"{according to the evening hearld}so maybe the Saipan aftermath did not weed out amateurism from the FAI after all.Just for information which of the international soccer teams are sports rehabilitators heading up rehab for e.g ladies u19,senior,mens senior,u21s,u19s.u17s etc.

Interesting that you feel as well as graduating with degree equivalent to a chartered physiotherapist you also have a degree equivalent to a sports scientist as well.Impressive.How do the sports scientists feel about that?Are they obsolete now aswell?How come a sports rehabilitator is not head of the course?I mean the head of dentistry is normally a dentist and phsiotherapy normally a physio why not the same for sports rehabilitators?

So just again for fear my atrocious literary skills did not make it clear before where is the evidence to support the claim that sports rehabilitators have an equal standing with charterd physios{just a few names of sports rehabilitators who run the rehab side for professional teams here in ireland or the uk instead of chartered physios{especially interested in who the sports rehailitators who head up Football association of Ireland teams are?} would be a start.

Also since we are all equal now who is the anatomy professor in Carlow It.How many cadavers does carlow have for dissection for practical anatomy? What are the core texts on the course?I had a look at the website some of the buzz words there all right{buzz words are great} so what is the range of manual therapy texts?What texts would the motor control module be based on?Who teaches manual skills surely not a charterd physios with a sports medicine/physio masters surely you have a recognised manipulative chartered physiotherapist with an internationally recognised manipulative masters cause all the universities would have even for their undergrads who you seem to think are so underskilled in the area.Sports masters dont qualify you for manual skills at international recognised level. In the fields of musculoskeletal are you finding that the high level research that is internationally acclaimed and publishes in the professional journals with the highest impact factors{across all rehab professionals}is mostly by sports rehabilitators or would it be fair to say its actually more likely to be chartered physiotherapists?

Bottom line remains for the person who opened this thread if long term they are looking to be specialist in the rehab field that will only happen with a Chartered physiotherapy degree.The fact that the sports rehabilitator idea has existed fsince the 80s in the uk and yet they appear to have made no appearence in place of chartered physios on the professional scene in the uk only back this up more.

I think whats far more interesting is that instead of hiding behind the fascade of a level 8 course{nobody who goes to university even knows courses have numbers} and a faculty which is run by another profession{chartered physios} and some half bit idea that the Fai will be fair to everyone{without any actual evidence of that ie name of a sports rehabilitator in lead position with FAI} it might be better to consider the precarious position the arrival of a University educated athletic trainer graduates will have on "sports rehabilitators".Who do you think lectures on the athletic trainer course?Its not "sports rehabilitators".So Im afraid you are wrong but You still have not produced any evidence{I dont think level8 will impress anyone in real world}that Eamies claim of parity with chartered physios was correct.Maybe you keeping all the strong arguements and evidence for later.Thanks you are defintely right about the paragraphs{level 8 english for me}

kob29

Yawn Yawn,
To the original poster, look I wouldnt pay to much attention to that pile of self-righteous sermonising from what sounds like a bitter physio.

FACT is that the the sports rehab/sports therapy/athletic training degrees are equipping graduates with the skills and knowledge required to work in this area, graduates are getting work with the sports governing bodies and even (shock) being employed by chartered physios in clinics. I know of several!

A friend lectures on one of the UK degrees and they have actually had several chartered physios do their postgrad to upgrade their knowledge of musculoskeletal injury and modern rehab, strength and conditioning practices.


So look, Im sure this is debate that will run long after your graduated, so dont get too upset by the propaganda from those getting nervous about their former stranglehold on a business niche. Go get the degree you want.

stokes78

Thanks Knob29 I agree this is becoming boring the complete lack of reasoned arguement on the Carlow side is both repetitive and hopefully informative for prospective students

I only replied to the post to show the claim of parity with chartered physios was pure fantasy and I think any impartial observer would see who is producing the reasoned arguement and backing it up and who is resorting to simply trying to cloud the issue.

Why has nobody challenged any of my arguements if they are incorrect?This claim that sports rehadilitators work in sport was never in question the claim was that they replaced or would replace chartered physios as the "head" of a rehab service due to their "expert" status but of course no one has produced any evidence of this because it is not true.

A previous poster said that sports rebilitators have existed since the early eighties that is nearly 30 years surely in that time their wonderful skills would have been recognised and rewarded with top professional positions?Maybe in another 30 years might we expect a few to actually head up a professional rehab team? How can the self proclaimed experts not be heading up the rehab team in professional sports?Why will someone not name a high profile team where the sports rehabilitator is head of rehab?

You say that I am disgruntled cause of this new competition.Again a previous poster told us sports rehabilitators have existed for 30 years so the competition is hardly new.Also as i said earlier in private practise the clients will decide so its all about your performance not your qualifications on the wall.We are all aware of this but is is what a university degree brings, the 1000 hours clinical training,the general practise with other professional such as doctors,nurses,surgeons,OTs,Clinical psychologists,Dieticians etc,the on going professional development and the completion of internationally recognised masters programs that allows us to develop the skills neccesary to make a favorable impression with as many clients as possible

Again since sports rehabilitators are nearly 30 years on the go how come they even want to work for chartered physios?When they consider themselves experts after graduating as a sports rehabilitator why would you want to work for an inferior profession like chartered physios?Surely at this stage sports rehabilitators should be the first port of call for musculoskeletal issues and Chartered physios should be working for sports rehabilitators seeing their neurology,respiratory and paediatric clients.Yet ask anyone down the pub where they would seek help with a musculoskeletal issue and Chartered physios will certainly be far higher up the list than sports rehabilitators.

Again why have a Chartered physio as head of your faculty if chartered physios are not experts?If your lecturers are chartered physios who you say are not experts in the musculoskeletal field how can you then be an expert when you qualify from the course?

Of course chartered physios undertake masters programs.This is the strenght of the profession and a major step on the recognised road to be considered a specialist as outlined in one of my earlier posts.How are you putting that forward as a weakness?I hate to break it to you but every profession needs to invest in continued education thats the only way we improve as clinicians.Masters programs are at an elevated level that is the whole idea.If you think that level is Carlow it then you most certainly are neither active clinically or academically.

Answer the research question- who produces the majority of the high level main stream research Chartered physios or sport rehabiliators?Are the text books for manual therapy,motor control,specific exercise rehab not predominately written by chartered physios?How many sports rehabilitators have published work that is in mainstream use{ie used by other professionals even as a reference like doctors,osteopaths,chiros,podiatrists,physios,massage therapists etc}

Unfortunately Roguish seems to have got confused with his claim that Hetac awarded my university degree and a degree from carlow.THIS IS INCORRECT.Hetac awards degrees in educational institutions OUtSIDE of the UNIVERSITIES.Therefor the claim that both a physiotherapy degree and a sports rehabiliator degree are awarded by the same body and as a result that we are all equal is actually FALSE.This was the only arguement supporters of carlow seemed to be depending on{notice the bold print on Roguish's post just so we would not miss it} and yet it is FALSE.Check out HETAC.ie its in the first few paragraphs.So maybe universities are not defunct after all.Im glad I defended my "sacred" university degree now.So the only arguement for any thing approaching parity is shown to be yet another fantasy.University degrees not the same as It degrees.Maybe one day HETAC will award University degrees and equality will reign but that is not the case now sorry maybe check the facts next time.

Well hopefully this is helpful to prospective students and as Knob29 says choose the course that suits you.Hopefully this will have least given you some information that you can research yourself to ensure that you know not only the Hetac value of your course{level 8 i think but you will not have to worry about the level if you do physiotherapy it will be a UNIVERSITY degree}but more importantly the professional standing of the degree amongst other professionals{doctors,podiatrists,sports scientists,etc} and amongst the professional sporting bodies{Any level 8s heading up professional sport rehab setups?!}and the general public who ultimately will be your bread and butter like us all{Is HETAC level 8 or Trinity more associated with quality and academic/clinical achievement in the eyes of the normal man/woman on the street?}

Well best of luck to everyone I have put my case forward, i didnt enter this thread to have a "go" at sports rehabilitators I simply wanted to stop the LIE of parity with Chartered physiotherapy to go unchallenged and to expose it for the FANTASY it is.

Stokes78, would you mind going back to University and learning how to type on a keyboard? It's the most basic of skills in an ever evolving world of technological advances. Oh what's that you say, they didn't teach you how to space out text or type properly on a keyboard in your University degree?

Why is that? Is that because they assume most physios are too good to type properly and concisely? Do you feel this is an unprecedented/unwarranted level of arrogance that has filtered down from the top (course coordinators) to the bottom (university students) like any organic structure in the business world?

Ditch your old fashioned "University" views. Do you know that some of the most successful (FINANCIALLY speaking) people to ever grace the earth never went to University? I assume because your name is "Stokes78", that you were born in 1978 and are still (I'll flatter you here) relatively young? If so, why are you so bitter? Are you annoyed that I spoke to guy who qualified from this course http://iptas.ie/ (NOT A UNIVERSITY) and is now currently earning more than any physiotherapist I have ever spoken to?

Are you more annoyed with the fact that I have a University qualification in business that I also realise the fact that my degree was also level 8? It's nothing to do with going to University and not realising, it's about being clued into the real world. It's about realising that people will go to Carlow IT, http://iptas.ie/ etc etc and earn more money than you will because they are better than you.

You barely got into your own University course, you weren't that great at Honours Math and you said languages were not your strong point, so you have exposed weakness already. You are not as great as you perceive yourself to be and you sure as hell can't type or space out text properly to save your life. You need to start embracing the competition and start realising that this market is becoming more and more competitive, and people like me (who have a UNIVERSITY DEGREE) will be doing courses like this http://iptas.ie/ and stealing your market share to fund my fetish for sports cars. Sorry about that. It's called competition. Boo Hoo.

See you later University Friend (PS: Your degree is level 8 and awarded by Hetac just in case you didn't know.)

stokes78

wonderful reply thanks for pointing out my keyboard deficiencies I will try to work on them I am a slow learner{as i pointed out when I disclosed that I only just managed to get in to my university degree.I think it is good to be aware of your weaknesses it allows you to work on improving yourself}.Did your post address any of the issues raised in my posts?It appears to be simply an ADVERTISEMENT for a fee paying institution.What has it got to do with the carlow course?Are you getting paid to post on sites like this?These posts are supposed to provide real information for people who are trying to decide on a career path not to be a shameless ADVERTISEMENT for a profit making organisation.You do realise that your "physical therapy" "qualification" is not recognised internationally since the term physical therapist{as used in the states,canada,etc} is the internationally recognised title of university qualified physiotherapists in Ireland and the uk.The title physical therapist in ireland only exists because of a loophole in the legislation that allowed a private institution to attempt to fool the public.Your "qualification" would not allow you to assess or treat patients in the US,Canada,australia etc since you are not a CHARTERED PHYSIOTHERAPIST

All the best with your sports car collection and fair play to your mate who makes so much money.If you read my posts you would see that I never doubted that there was massive money to be made from having your own practise regardless of where you have your "qualifications" from.Making money has a lot more to do with business ability than clinical skills and chartered physios may not all have the business ability that you have so fair play to you.Chartered physios certainly do have superior skills than you however.Why dont you name the 'physical therapists" who are heading up rehab teams here or abroad?Bottom line is that the institute who is taking your money is offering you a promise of great things when the reality is that you will never even approach parity{ie be considered an equal when applying for a position in professional sport}although as you say there is money to be made in your own business.

Can you answer any of the points I raised in my previous posts?You seem to think I am in some way scared of the competition as if it was new{these third rate "qualifications" have existed for years provided by institutions who see an opportunity to take easy money from gullible people }.I can assure you I am not as I said earlier the public will ultimately decide and my university degree and clinical training allows me provide a good service that I constantly work to improve.

Please address the points i raised in my previous post.If you dont then I think it is clear your post is simply an advertisement for a private institution and I think it should be removed.

Read the HETAC webpage they award degrees from institutions OUTSIDE of the university sector.My degree is from an irish UNIVERSITY so BOO HO its not awarded by hetac.

Why dont you post some constructive information to help people make an informed choice.Tell us what hospitals you do your clnical training in.Tell us how many hours of clinical training you do.Tell us what core texts you use{any by chartered physios}Tell us how much research "physical therapists" have published in high quality journals.Tell us what "physical therapists" are heading up rehab teams in professional sport.Tell us what job oppotunities exist abroad with your "physical therapist" title{you would be going to jail if you called yourself a physical therapist in the US,Canada or australia Ireland is just far too soft and tolerant of chancers}Tell us what you tell your clients when they ask you where you went to university?Do you let your clients believe you actually are a chartered physio or do you tell them where you actually got your qualification?

You are right making money is very possible in many fields without qualifications and good luck to people.Treating real people who have pain and disability should be about more than money and opportunistic fee paying private institutions do not provide the skilled clinicians to give people the best service.

Please answer some of the point raised and avoid the rants that are fuelled by inadequecy

Stokes78, I'm going to keep this short and brief as dealing with someone as bitter as you is hard to do. You have a terrible old fashioned and conservative/snobby attitude. You remind me of the "Polo Crew" gang i.e. those people who act snobbier and more arrogant than people who actually have plenty of money. "Let's put electric gates on the front of our 3 bedroom house in Ballybrack"

http://www.iptas.ie/accreditation.html - You will see that people who do complete this course can treat patients in America, Australia, Canada and the UK. I am not affiliated with this course in any shape or form. I'm merely considering applying for it.

Are you making good money in your career? Why are you so bitter? Embrace the competition...if you really were not worried by people who go to Carlow IT or other institutions, you would not be getting so angry and bitter.

I think what is really annoying you are these alternative forms of treatment which are increasingly becoming available (and let's face it, none of them are trying to say they are Physiotherapists - it's an alternative method and if they are trying to say they are Physiotherapists then they are Idiots.) and the fact that people who are qualified in these alternative forms of treatment AND are also EXCELLENT (there are an awful amount of crap PHYSIOS/Physical Therapists/Holistic Massage whatever out there) at what they do are charging the same prices and earning the same if not more than physiotherapists.

In fact, my whole reasoning for wanting to get involved in this field to begin with was due to the lackluster service I have received from the so called TOP physios in Dublin Hospitals!!!! I realise there are good physios and bad physios (like everything in life) but that's for another day. I've an interest (hobby due to my personal interests) in the musculoskeletal system and that was why I was considering going down this route.

See you later.

stokes78

Yet again no answers to the questions I posed just more waffle and personal attacks on my bitterness and anger{I was not hugged enough as a child}I think it speaks volumes for the course you are so blatantly advertising{hope they pay you well}

I will however answer your questions even though no one seems to do me the courtesy of answering my questions.You say "physical therapists" can work abroad.I looked at the web site and it is scarily vague in what role they worked.Notice it does not say they worked as physical therapists because as you know outside of ireland that title is protected and can only be used by physiotherapists with a university degree.So what profession will you put down on your emigration forms?Massage therapist maybe,sports rehabilitator,bodywork therapist?One thing for sure it wont be physical therapist unless you like the court systems abroad.

You say that I am afraid of these new wonderful skills that every therapist other than chartered physios seem to have.Are you joking me?See if you can get a reading lst for that private course and I guareentee you that the basic texts will be manual.orthopaedic,musculoskeletal,muscle rehab,motor control and neuro predominately written by chartered physios,doctors,osteopaths,sports scientists,pychologists or biomechanists.I doubt there will be any by "physical therapists" from ireland.These texts are available to anyone simply go on to amazon and you can have a whole library of relevent texts for assessment,diagnosis,treatment,management and prevention of musculoskeletal conditions.The course is simply like a cuckoo stealing research from professionals and pretending because its in a book or research article on a course outline that it makes the course legitimate.What a joke.Or maybe I am wrong and the course is not just feeding gullible people little scraps of real professional information?Why dont you get your contact on the course to put up the wonderful texts,research article or randomised control studies so you can show everyone that it does have something to offer.

Go on pubmed or goggle scholar and look up any injuries you seem to be so interseted in and see what percentage of high level research is produced by chartered physios{physical therapists in canada,US} and irish "physical therapists" or sports rehabilitators etc.Look up squats while you are at it cause your knowledge in that area is sadly lacking{you do recognise a 90 degree angle at the knee without lumbar extension,pelvic rotation,femoral internal rotation and tibial torsion I assume}

You seem to be a big fan of market research and having a business plan which seems a very good idea.Why dont you do some market research in professional sport and see what positions your" qualification" will get you and let us know.

As i said earlier I am no expert but at least I am working towards that direction.Whats makes me angry and also strangely amused is that you can be so deceived by the bluff a course gives you and believe that there is this massive market in sports/musculoskeletal that physios are doing a terrible job in and that somehow these banana republic courses have all the answers that no one in universities knows anything about cause we are too busy been snobby and arrogant.It is hilarious

Just to make it clear again that physical therapy course must be around more than 20 years same with sports therapy,bodywork therapy sports rehab.You name it it has existed for years and years.This is not new 'competition".Its the same old rubbish rehashed.There must be thousands of people 'qualified" over the years from these kind of things yet no one has even produced 4 or 5 names of people who head up rehab settings in professional sport.Maybe you wil give us that info or is it not possible cause they are chartered physios.

I dont know where ballybrack is so I dont understand your no doubt insightful social commentary.You seem obsessed with money.I make plenty but not rich hopefully as my clinical skills continue to improve I will be.For now I am working as best as possible to give the best service possible and constantly trying to increase my knowledge base.

Was I wrong about Hetac?Did they actually award ny degree?I dont think so

Maybe you could now answer some of the questions i posed in earlier posts since i answered yours.Or get your contact in the private institute to maybe answer them.If you are going to do the course all the best but at least raise some of the issues I have pointed out.If I am talking rubbish then they should be able to blow my ideas out of the water.But they wont.

I am done with this unless you have specific question or argument to put to me.For any person who reads the whole thread{even with my terrble keyboard skills}I think they will have a clearer idea which pathway brings best opportunity of success.Best of luck maybe we will have practtises side by side someday and the public can decide and you will see that talk and bluff does not beat substance in the long run.

Stokes78, not too interested in what you bring to the table. If you can't see by now that you are letting your fellow professionals down, then I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise.

I still think this is the problem:

I think what is really annoying you are these alternative forms of treatment which are increasingly becoming available (and let's face it, none of them are trying to say they are Physiotherapists - it's an alternative method and if they are trying to say they are Physiotherapists then they are Idiots.) and the fact that people who are qualified in these alternative forms of treatment AND are also EXCELLENT (there are an awful amount of crap PHYSIOS/Physical Therapists/Holistic Massage whatever out there) at what they do are charging the same prices and earning the same if not more than physiotherapists.

In fact, my whole reasoning for wanting to get involved in this field to begin with was due to the lackluster service I have received from the so called TOP physios in Dublin Hospitals!!!! I realise there are good physios and bad physios (like everything in life) but that's for another day. I've an interest (hobby due to my personal interests) in the musculoskeletal system and that was why I was considering going down this route.

I genuinely think if a clinic was right beside yours and they were practicing alternative methods to your beloved physiotherapy from your magnificent University, and you realised they were doing better financially than you were, you'd probably kill yourself.

Maybe you could now answer some of the questions i posed in earlier posts since i answered yours.Or get your contact in the private institute to maybe answer them.If you are going to do the course all the best but at least raise some of the issues I have pointed out.If I am talking rubbish then they should be able to blow my ideas out of the water.But they wont.

Look I'll try help you here. Why don't you contact that course, and ask them the questions you want to know. Express interest in joining, get them on your side, and then simply email them and ask them and the answers you get, you can basically post up here and educate all the people why physiotherapy via a university is the best route etc.

Why are you so annoyed by the different variances of the third level courses that exist? Not one of them are pretending to be physiotherapy courses, not one of them state they are better than physiotherapy courses, they each have defined differences. They are not trying to manipulate the public.

Aren't you guys in some shape or form meant to respect one another or at least work together to benefit the patient? What I don't get is why you are so annoyed by this and you tell me I'm obsessed with money, but the reason you have GOT to be so annoyed by this is down to the fact that these people are eating into your market share.

PS: I know how to squat properly thanks, most physios/physical therapists/doctors/sports massage/alternative holistic treatment personnel don't. That's why they aren't strength and conditioning coaches. And that's why I pay attention to strength and conditioning coaches when I want to know how to squat and not some overweight doctor or physiotherapist.