Who's given up?

Mr.Nice Guy

I noticed on one of the threads VR saying he has given up on the current WWE product. I gave up on it a few months back with the return of SuperHunter and haven't looked back, aside from the retirement angle for Flair which has since ended. I'm wondering if anyone else decided to give up on it?

Just been looking at some of their ratings of late and comparing them with last year and they make for pretty grim reading...

2007 ratings...

April 23, 2007 - 3.7
April 30, 2007 - 3.6
May 7, 2007 - 3.6
May 14, 2007 - 3.6

Now here's 2008...

April 21, 2008 - 3.0
April 28, 2008 - 3.3
May 5, 2008 - 3.2
May 12, 2008 - 3.3

Seems like there's definitely a growing trend here with wrestling fans who are thinking 'ah to hell with this'.

If you ask me it's far more entertaining to just watch the product from ten years back. It's way better than the current tripe.

What say you?

judas101

what was their peak ratings numbers?

rovert

People are DVDRing (TIVO in the states) the show are not reflected in these numbers.

ShawnRaven

Here's my opinion, i'm sure i'm in the minority (as per usual), although it does surprise me that MNG gave up on it, as he was very Pro WWE and barely heard a bad word against it, christ knows we trashed it out several times over the course of the past year.

I couldn't agree more with MNG about watching a product ten years old, even fifteen or twenty. Hell, i'm awaiting my shipment of WCW Nitros from 96-98 to come in any day now, for my wrestling fix, cos WWE and TNA aren't doing it. But at least TNA are trying, WWE just seem to have given up over a year ago.

- 2008 and it has dipped, and i'm blaming the return of MegaCena on that. Since Cena dropped the belt, it has looked promising. Now he's back, people can expect him to get the belt back soon enough and bore us to death.

- Hornswoggle should be wished the best in his future endeavors, his 15 minutes of fame were over quicker than John Wayne Bobbitt's

- Too much teasing and not enough delivering. At the end of 2007, WWE spent the guts of three months teasing Jericho's return. The only thing he returned to was midcard hell. It will take a lot more than Y2J to save the burnt out WWE fans.

- The ECW champions have spent as much time, if not more on RAW and SD. Seriously, what's the point?

- New main eventers aren't being made quick enough. Kennedy is ready for his time in the sun, what's WWE's problem? WWE put all their eggs in one basket with Jeff Hardy, and paid for it. But they still never learn their lesson.

All this into consideration, yet WWE fans scoff about TNA fans chanting "fire Russo" at Sacrifice last month? Wake up call folks, WWE isn't much better, and hasn't been for months.

There ya go, my €2,000,000 worth.
VR!

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree with you VR except for the point about Cena. I think they should build the product around their top guy (which he is) and not a guy who peaked nearly a decade ago.

I think Triple H is a poor draw. I saw an ad for HHH vs orton in a cage whilst watching Sky and I remember thinking it was a match that wouldn't have interested me in 2003 and interests me even less nowadays.

I would say there's too much emphasis placed on stars of the past and I would include Undertaker in that. Time for him to move aside and let someone else take the spot as Michaels has been doing for a while now.

rovert

rovert wrote: »

People are DVDRing (TIVO in the states) the show are not reflected in these numbers.

Acknowledge me

rossie1977

judas101 wrote: »

what was their peak ratings numbers?

their peak is probably mid 2000, raws figures for that period

April 17, 2000 6.7
April 24, 2000 7.1
May 1, 2000 7.4
May 8, 2000 6.2
May 15, 2000 6.1
May 22, 2000 7.1
May 29, 2000 6.4

i would agree with rovert, new technologies will probably not correctly reflect numbers, it seems strange that RR, NWO and WM24 all did great numbers and yet raw ratings are falling

john concannon

I have only recently quit watching Ecw and Smackdown!I record Raw and normally watch at the weekend.It's just not worth staying up til 11 or even 1am.I guess the big peak is not coming after all.Meltzer and Alvarez will be furious.:D

rovert

john concannon wrote: »

I guess the big peak is not coming after all.Meltzer and Alvarez will be furious.:D

Pardon?

Anyway figures for people Tivoing in the states:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/05/19/the-hills-leads-cable-tv-time-shifting-again/3830

You can add roughly 10% to Mr.Nice Guy's figures.

gimmick

I pretty much gave up around mid 2006. Everything was boring the life out of me at the time.

I have not watched a full Raw or SD in about 4 years. I haven't watched a PPV without fast forwarding at least one match in about 2years.

Maybe its because I am almsot 30 now (theres a scray thought) and the product just doesn't appeal to me anymore, or else, as I reckon is the right answer, is that the product is appalling. I flick in and out every now and then but that is about it.

I'll post reasons later once I have a bit of time.

rovert

I have to laugh at people from the ATTITUDE! becoming wisened old coggers and talking about tradition.

gimmick

Nothing wrong with a bit of nostalgia.

rovert

gimmick wrote: »

Nothing wrong with a bit of nostalgia.

Say that during the ATTITUDE! era

Otis Driftwood

I really cant remember the last time I sat through a full episode of Raw.I remember a time circa 98 - 01 when Raw and to a lesser extent Smackdown were must see TV.I think it all really started to go to hell when they split the brands up.

Nowadays I just read the reports online and if anything interesting happens I may tune in for a particular segment/match etc but at this stage I really couldnt be arsed with it.

Prufrock

The atmosphere at raw, smackdown and ppvs is appalling. The crowd just aren't interested in the superstars anymore. Cena was getting a strong reaction not long ago but to be fair he was the only one. The sense of fun has gone out of it.

Also WWE never replaced Austin and Rock. They where the top guys. Nobody stepped in to fill the gap. Nobody could they where just too popular.

The new guys like Kennedy, MVP, CM Punk need to be pushed. HHH, HBK and Taker have had their day. Let it go.

(That being said all of the above are still strong performers. HBK in particular)

orestes

I haven't given up yet, but I'm getting close. If I had the channels to watch TNA I'd probably have stopped watching wwe by now tbh

Dickmcsavage

I'm at the stage where I just watch RAW and the PPV's and to be honest I don't even catch RAW every week. The excitement is gone. Maybe its the internet that has done it for me, I don't know but what I do know is that there was a hell of alot more reason to tune in every week back in attitude era. It really was a case of you not knowing what could happen each week and that was exciting. I pretty much blame the current product not on any wrestler but on creative. The writing is god awful these days and the storylines are very much 2 dimensional.

Doctor DooM

My interest in WWE died with Chris Benoit. I was just hanging in there before but that was the last straw for me. Besides the poorness of the product (which has apparently degraded still) the scumminess of the business just overshot what it was giving to me.

At this point, the only thing wrestling in my life is reading threads on this very forum.

So you better make them good, ok?

chopperbyrne

I haven't given up on it, but I watch it less and less these days.

Hardly ever watch Raw, but watch SD most weeks.

The main problem is the lack of any real competition.

When WCW got big, it made WWE get better.

It's been going steadily downhill since the WCW buyout.

Vince135792003

Just on the ratings, rovert mentioned that you need to factor in 10% or so for people that dvdr the show. Someone needs to tell Wade Keller on the torch about that. I don't think he's acknowleged it once.


Plus even if the ratings have dipped a bit, they have grown in so many other ways too. They only just released their quarterly figures a couple of weeks ago and it was their best ever. So they are doing something right.

I still follow the shows and catch bits and pieces of it throughout the week but I'd rarely watch a wrestling show in full these days.

I'll be watching all 3 hours of UFC 84 though this Sunday.

rovert

SDooM wrote: »

My interest in WWE died with Chris Benoit. I was just hanging in there before but that was the last straw for me. Besides the poorness of the product (which has apparently degraded still) the scumminess of the business just overshot what it was giving to me.

At this point, the only thing wrestling in my life is reading threads on this very forum.

So you better make them good, ok?

Poor choice of words.

Fozzy

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Plus even if the ratings have dipped a bit, they have grown in so many other ways too. They only just released their quarterly figures a couple of weeks ago and it was their best ever. So they are doing something right.

I was just going to say, reading this thread you'd think it's all doom and gloom for WWE now, that they're dying. But they're doing better business than ever before and making more money than they ever made during the "good old days"

I think in a lot of ways the current product has become like the '80s WWF product. In the early '80s the company had mainly older fans but with the rise of Hogan they brought in a lot of younger fans. It's kind of the same with Cena now. They're marketing towards a younger audience and the older audience seems to be getting alienated again. Just hang around for another ten years when the current fans have grown up and maybe we'll get Attitude Era Version Two

Although I'd guess not

Doctor DooM

rovert wrote: »

Poor choice of words.

Touché

Fozzy wrote: »

I was just going to say, reading this thread you'd think it's all doom and gloom for WWE now, that they're dying. But they're doing better business than ever before and making more money than they ever made during the "good old days"

I think in a lot of ways the current product has become like the '80s WWF product. In the early '80s the company had mainly older fans but with the rise of Hogan they brought in a lot of younger fans. It's kind of the same with Cena now. They're marketing towards a younger audience and the older audience seems to be getting alienated again. Just hang around for another ten years when the current fans have grown up and maybe we'll get Attitude Era Version Two

Although I'd guess not

Bet you HHH will still be round for that, stealing heat!

Mr.Nice Guy

Fozzy wrote: »

I was just going to say, reading this thread you'd think it's all doom and gloom for WWE now, that they're dying. But they're doing better business than ever before and making more money than they ever made during the "good old days"

Financially they might be prospering, and they'll always get their Wrestlemania boost, but creatively they are stagnant. No real stars being made any more(although in fairness they've tried and individuals have f*cked up).

Anyone know their PPV buyrates compared to a year ago? Is it steady or has it dropped off?

Minto

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Anyone know their PPV buyrates compared to a year ago? Is it steady or has it dropped off?

I can't give ya exact figures, but I know the first 3 or 4 PPVs of 08 were significantly higher than the first 3 or 4 PPVs last year. When I say significantly bigger, I mean that they were on average 50,000 buys bigger. I think so anyway, I'm going on memory here, so I could be wrong, very wrong!

To answer the original question, no, I haven't given up. I'm a huge Triple H fan so, I really don't mind RAW at the moment. Some stuff is sh*te, but tis not all bad. I don't watch ECW or SmackDown regularly though. I do watch most PPVs, unless the card sucks, but I bought Judgment Day, so I guess that is that theory out the window.

The Sparrow

I have given up for the most part... I fast forward through the majority of RAW and I watch a PPV if it is not PPV here but again the fast forward button is used a lot.

In many ways I am sorry that I ever read Mick Foley's book or found the wrestling observer website. I was much happier when I knew very little about professional wrestling and how it actually works. I mean (and I imagine most on here are the same?!) it has come to the point that I know so much about it that I can usually call most of the matches move by move and I usually have a very good idea what will happen and more importantly what won't happen because I am so used to the WWE mentality. So even though the product (see bloody wrestling jargon again!) has gotten worse I think I am jaded because I understand it too much.

Now and again something such as Flair's retirement will grab my attention but these are usually fleeting moments. And MMA has also reallly taken over for me. There is just so much more to like about MMA than pro-wrestling. I find that stupid things annoy me in WWE because I can think of a million other ways that they could do things better. But years ago when I didn't really understand it I wouldn't have thought twice about anything.

Really i only watch now for the very odd highlight and so that I know what Bryan Alvarez or the guys from the BTR show are talking about because I like listening to them on my commute to work. And even then I prefer listening to them talking about MMA!

Mr.Nice Guy

Minto wrote: »

I can't give ya exact figures, but I know the first 3 or 4 PPVs of 08 were significantly higher than the first 3 or 4 PPVs last year. When I say significantly bigger, I mean that they were on average 50,000 buys bigger. I think so anyway, I'm going on memory here, so I could be wrong, very wrong!

I'm pretty sure Wrestlemania's buyrate was down from last year's. I'm not sure about the others like RR, NWO etc.

Vince135792003

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Anyone know their PPV buyrates compared to a year ago? Is it steady or has it dropped off?

Royal Rumble up from last year
No way out way up from last year
Wrestlemania down but still good.

To be honest I don't think there's a big difference creatively in WWE in 2007 versus 2008. About 5 out of 10 to me. As Randy Savage in a promo I watched on youtube would say: The beat goes on.

Mr.Nice Guy

I felt the first couple of months or so of 2007 was the most enjoyable WWE TV I'd seen in many years. Then they got some big injuries, the Benoit thing went down and I felt there was a dip creatively with the exception of the Jericho thing which in the end didn't really work.

I had hope that things would pick up in 2008 and I felt the Rumble was the best one I'd watched in ages but then they did the whole main event on No Way Out bullsh*t and have now gone back to the well yet again by pushing the stars of yesteryear.

I can't fathom actually sitting through a WWE show these days. I might look for an amusing moment online if I hear about something but that's about it. A pity.

AlphaMale 3OO

These days I watch RAW and Smackdown while surfing the net and its great because I'm passively taking in the semi-interesting bits. I guess you could say, I hear them rather than watch them. Its fairly bad at the moment and its such a shame because Wrestlemania was excellent this year and I thought things would pick up. There are a million and one things wrong and I believe that the next boom period will happen by chance. Reading Bret's book at the moment and that is giving me a more than adequate fix that the two flagship shows just can't provide.

collie1

i think wwe are crying out for a rock,austin type of character. they never replaced their 2 most popular ever wrestlers.

Bounty Hunter

WWE seems to be at its best when it is forced to respond, wether that be to competition like WCW in the old days (not like TNA now... i said competition) or when Injuries for example force them to do as they wouldent otherwise and push people who havent been there and done it all before (yawn) like Jeff Hardy's recent push into the main spot around RR time.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I agree with you VR except for the point about Cena. I think they should build the product around their top guy (which he is) and not a guy who peaked nearly a decade ago.

I partially agree with that. WWE should build the product around their top guy, but how long should the top guy be the top guy? Especially when it's pretty much a cartoon character wearing a t-shirt spoofing the Nintendo NES, a console that was dated about five years before most of Cena's fanbase was even born? Leaving Triple H aside (as i know we'll never agree on him), RAW is taking too long to make new main eventers, Kennedy is built up and not used, and they threw all their eggs in one basket with Jeff Hardy, and we know how that ended.

However, Cena isn't on top at the minute, but i'm still finding the product boring, so i will retract my statement... partially. It's not Cena's fault currently, however i think his overexposure has played a part in it.

I think Triple H is a poor draw. I saw an ad for HHH vs orton in a cage whilst watching Sky and I remember thinking it was a match that wouldn't have interested me in 2003 and interests me even less nowadays.

Triple H as a face isn't a great draw, Triple H as a heel however, is probably the best heel that RAW had to offer. He's been face for too long now, and quite frankly, he sucks at it.

I would say there's too much emphasis placed on stars of the past and I would include Undertaker in that. Time for him to move aside and let someone else take the spot as Michaels has been doing for a while now.

And now you know my big beef with Undertaker, i've been saying that for the last year, i just throw in my true feelings for the guy. I nearly got sick after seeing Edge drop the belt to someone who quite frankly, in my opinion, isn't really capable of working the schedule of a title holder. But got the win just to keep up his worthless wrestlemania streak. I swore i'd never watch WWE TV again or PPV unless there was a match i really wanted to see. So far i just watched Judgment Day for Michaels v Jericho. The rest are recorded on the hard drive. I may watch them if i require a cure for insomnia.

VR!