Pimpage Rules

Colm_OReilly

Righteo,

Entirely arbitary rules regarding pimpage on this board.

A) Okay
-Any event announcement, which can reasonably be considered of benefit to the readership/larger martial arts community, is kosher. This includes, but is not limited to:
i. Seminars by international experts/champions (e.g. William Sanders, Rodrigo Atunes)
ii. Tournaments/Fight shows (e.g. best of the best, NSC)
iii. Club open days (must be a specific day, reccuring saturday open days do not count)
iv. Venue changes (clubs moving to new premises, clubs opening - e.g. Hey, new club in Drminagh)

Not Okay
i. Non regular posters advertising
ii. Club specific reports (hey, we had our paintballing trip)
iii. Irrelevant responses to threads (e.g. if a poster asks for a karate club, you can't say "hey, try x mma")
iv. Pure club plugs (if someone asks for a club, you must give a brief description of what sets your club apart - MMA clubs especially. How I moderate this will depend on time and mood constraints)

Any points of clarification, questions on these, comments, etc, please post below.

Also, if the boards.ie superiors deem any of these to be in breach of higher rules, their law takes precedence.

Colm
-the mod

RedRaven

I hear what you are saying Mr. O Reilly and all are valid points to be fair, but I feel you should really try Bridgestone Muay Thai!!!:p;)

dunkamania

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

How I moderate this will depend on time and mood constraints

HammerHeadGym

Hi Colm. Some interesting points there. Just some clarifications, if you don't mind.

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

ii. Club specific reports (hey, we had our paintballing trip)

I disagree with this one (Quelle suprise ). For example if my gym was having a barbeque that was nothing to do with any MA but all were invited, I don't see why it shouldn't go up here. Similar for any sort of boards meet ups. Movies, beer, ufc in redz etc.

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

iii. Irrelevant responses to threads (e.g. if a poster asks for a karate club, you can't say "hey, try x mma")

A bold statement Mr. O'Reilly, considering the usual flow of conversation on this board. I for one, will be closely following this one.

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

iv. Pure club plugs (if someone asks for a club, you must give a brief description of what sets your club apart - MMA clubs especially....

This one I'm just confused about. Surely if someone says 'I want an MMA club' then 'my club is MMA' is enough of a match? Or have I missed the point?

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

...How I moderate this will depend on time and mood constraints)

Now, this I have to strongly disagree with. If you are moderator, then you should have an objective and unbiased view at all times. If your changeable mood means a ruling on my post will be differrent to the next guy then none of what you have written so far can be classed as fair. In fact I doubt they can be even classed as rules at all.

The rest of it I like though. *hugs*

MaeveD

Colm,

So if I posted a 10% off coupon code for Fightlord.com for say for the first 10 people that enter the code boards.ie when checking out on the site.. would that be allowed?

Mikel

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

i. Seminars by international experts/champions (e.g. William Sanders, Rodrigo Atunes)

Define 'international expert'. Does that include for eg J kavanagh? Ian Butlin?
Who is not covered?

Not Okay
i. Non regular posters advertising

Define 'regular'

ii. Club specific reports (hey, we had our paintballing trip)

What about 'I did my first class in bjj/mma/boxing, it was nice etc etc?

Roper

I agree with the title of this thread...

Pimpage RULES!!!

HammerHeadGym

I guess my standpoint on the whole thing is either all of it is ok, or none of it is.

Nothingcompares

rules don't need to be defined they're just guidelines.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Nothingcompares wrote: »

rules don't need to be defined they're just guidelines.

'Rules are for the obdience of fools and the guidence of wise men' eh!.

& for the record, I agree with Roper - Pimpage rules.

GBX

MaeveD wrote: »

Colm,

So if I posted a 10% off coupon code for Fightlord.com for say for the first 10 people that enter the code boards.ie when checking out on the site.. would that be allowed?

Just to get clarification MaeveD, is this discount currently available or only an example?

Colm_OReilly

There's some things you know are going to get a reaction. Let me hit you all with an absolute revelation - every single decision is based off mood, by referees, judges, politicians, guards, teachers, parents, etc. I'm just recognising that fact.

Originally Posted by Colm_OReilly
ii. Club specific reports (hey, we had our paintballing trip)

I disagree with this one (Quelle suprise ). For example if my gym was having a barbeque that was nothing to do with any MA but all were invited, I don't see why it shouldn't go up here. Similar for any sort of boards meet ups. Movies, beer, ufc in redz etc.

The events mentioned are not club specific reports - they're open invites.

This one I'm just confused about. Surely if someone says 'I want an MMA club' then 'my club is MMA' is enough of a match? Or have I missed the point?

I want better recommendation than just "JK is good". I'd prefer "SBG has beginners classes and female only classes that would suit you".

Another example "is there kids ma in tallaght?", rather than "yes, try us", give a brief description of classes, age group, aims, etc.

Define 'international expert'. Does that include for eg J kavanagh? Ian Butlin?
Who is not covered?

I would guess that any open seminar is cool. What would irritate me would be continuous seminars/course being pimped.

Define 'regular'

Mod's discretion.

What about 'I did my first class in bjj/mma/boxing, it was nice etc etc?

That is kosher, as long as it doesn't reek too much of advertising/appears ingenuine.

mark.leonard

Colm is trying to lay out a couple rough indicators of what is or isnt allowed. Common sense should be your guide from there, its not possible to break these down to the nth degree when they are not absolute laws but more guidelines as Kevin said.

Mood constraints reads to me as a tongue in cheek remark Dave, get off Colm's back.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

How I moderate this will depend on time and mood constraints

I think you need to either step to one side or ask someone with a level head on their shoulders to assist you.

Judomad

Mairt wrote: »

I think you need to either step to one side or ask someone with a level head on their shoulders to assist you.

+1

bilbo79

Mairt wrote: »

I think you need to either step to one side or ask someone with a level head on their shoulders to assist you.

Here Here, well said.

sounds like someone knows they arev caught out and are trying to back track, how mods are feeling is irrelevant! if you cant be consistent then pass the job on to someone who can do it better imo.

Colm_OReilly

Oh sweet lord!

This is not a thread on me modding, or me personally.

It is accepted, although not condoned, that those in a position of authority or mediation, are subject to mistakes.

Now, in relation to the specific point of "mood", it is on an extremely difficult point. I have repeatedly asked for more detailed recommendations to the newbies on boards than just "try this club" and that is the argument I was trying to make.

I understand the difficulty and monotony involved in detailing what makes your club different from the others down the road to posters who may never show up, or may never say thank you for your time. However, it does make for more informed decisions, and that's the intent.

Things written are always subject to interpretation based on the mood of the listener and his views towards the party expressing the view. This is evident in every other arena of life and also on other forums.

To give an example, on the rugby boards, there's Leinster-Munster bickery. It is up to the mods there to decide what is acceptable, and what's ban worthy. I don't criticize their criteria nor envy their position.

Furthermore, to hammer the point home, repli and ruggiebear are also mods on this forum. Amz is an s-mod/admin who regularly checks up on this board, so you're well covered from unnecessary tyranny by yours truly.

yomchi

Not that I have a problem with anyone pimping anything MA related on this forum, but its funny to see Orla being pounced on for advertising what she's been doing with her full time MA gym when there's blatant advertisement for boozer selling cheap gargle under the pretence of it showing a MMA sporting programme and no one says squat - kind of highlights the one sidedness thats prevelant on this board.

Dragan

Jesus folks, chillax a little bit.

You should just be happy that Colm is honest enough to admit and realise that mood dictates reaction. A lot of people ( clearly ) don't realise that.

The simple fact is that mods are appointed and need to make decisions on how the forum is run, lots of overly reactive responses in here based around situations that haven't even arisen that you imagine will affect you.

Internet Based Self Defence ftl.

S.I.R

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Righteo,

Entirely arbitary rules regarding pimpage on this board.

A) Okay
-Any event announcement, which can reasonably be considered of benefit to the readership/larger martial arts community, is kosher. This includes, but is not limited to:
i. Seminars by international experts/champions (e.g. William Sanders, Rodrigo Atunes)
ii. Tournaments/Fight shows (e.g. best of the best, NSC)
iii. Club open days (must be a specific day, reccuring saturday open days do not count)
iv. Venue changes (clubs moving to new premises, clubs opening - e.g. Hey, new club in Drminagh)

Not Okay
i. Non regular posters advertising
ii. Club specific reports (hey, we had our paintballing trip)
iii. Irrelevant responses to threads (e.g. if a poster asks for a karate club, you can't say "hey, try x mma")
iv. Pure club plugs (if someone asks for a club, you must give a brief description of what sets your club apart - MMA clubs especially. How I moderate this will depend on time and mood constraints)

Any points of clarification, questions on these, comments, etc, please post below.

Also, if the boards.ie superiors deem any of these to be in breach of higher rules, their law takes precedence.

Colm
-the mod

sure your an admin not brain cowen ??

Colm_OReilly

Jon wrote: »

Not that I have a problem with anyone pimping anything MA related on this forum, but its funny to see Orla being pounced on for advertising what she's been doing with her full time MA gym when there's blatant advertisement for boozer selling cheap gargle under the pretence of it showing a MMA sporting programme and no one says squat - kind of highlights the one sidedness thats prevelant on this board.

Jon,

Serious question - Do you believe this to be unfair? And do you wish to report the Redz advertisement of the UFC show and have it blocked?

I agree with you that the response to Orla's post was OOT, I made an attempt at guidelines here based off the ensuing debate that there was no guidelines.

My opinion on the Redz thing is that Scotty is a regular poster, the UFC is a social event for a lot of boardsters, and although I haven't been at one in a while, I never knew anyone who went there to get tanked up who didn't have an interest in the UFC.

What are other people's opinions on this?

Col

john kavanagh

Jon wrote: »

when there's blatant advertisement for boozer selling cheap gargle under the pretence of it showing a MMA sporting programme and no one says squat

i guess no good deed goes unpunished :rolleyes:

i remember a time when people were begging for a place to watch UFC, now people can go to a bar and watch it on the big screen with their mates. scotty (redz manager) is kind enough to try and put off booking any paying client on these nights to offer it FOR FREE and with drinks for 2euro.

....and i have to 'lol' at the hysteria around how 1 or 2 INDIVIDUALS replied to a single post :D

'wont someone think of the kids!'

MaeveD

GBX wrote: »

Just to get clarification MaeveD, is this discount currently available or only an example?

It's not just an example

cowzerp

As an aspiring pimp i find this thread offensive!

Roper

This is all my fault and I feel terrible.

Oh no wait I don't because I've just remembered that people on here will argue with their own shadows and still lose.

Look there's nothing too it. The original post that I responded to was a very blatant advertisement, which I thought would have been deleted on that account, and I actually just gave the girl a bit of advice to try to be more subtle as on other boards things like that get deleted all the time. People promote things, when you have something you want to share, be it a business or voluntary, you want to let people know and if threads are deleted, you don't get your exposure. I thought I was being nice.

The other thing is that people come on here offerring little perks all the time. Pro Nutrition have offerred fighters packs, Redz offer a few cheap drinks and a place to watch the UFC, Fightlord offer a few bargains, gyms offer reduced seminars or classes the odd time too. That's all cool, it's free stuff and it's of benefit to both the reader of the board and the business in question. Business gets €, reader gets to pay less €.

Look as I've said on the other thread, I've pimped my gym here because I think people who might like to join up and do some training read this board from time to time. But you'd swear the way people go on that 90% of members came from reading here. I can think if one, possibly two guys in my gym who found out about it through this site, that's IT.

Then on this and the other thread you have these not too subtle inferences that somehow people are manipulating threads as advertisements and that there are people posting here purely for promotion. I'm referring here to the mock conversations between posters on the last thread. Now maybe thereare people who do that on purpose, but I don't know any of them, and could it just be that these people share a common fvckin interest and are in the same club and on the same forum because of this? Or is it that the coach of the club is approaching his students after classes and asking "hey buddy will you go on boards.ie tomorrow and talk me up and then I'll respond?" For fvcks sake get off the high horses chaps. If you've ever run a club you will know that very, very little of anyone's membership comes through advertising of any kind. The vast majority comes through word of mouth, so anyone with any experience isn't going to bother their holes setting up some mock promotion by having some fake conversation.

Lastly, I really have to say a word about the Redz thing. Scotty bought his latest yacht which he moors in Marbella off the takings from his UFC nights in Redz last year, so don't stop them. C'mon now. Do you really think that that in Dublin, in 2008, that someone selling drinks for €2 to a very limited crowd on a Sunday night is making a mint or abusing the system on here somehow. I've had conversations with the man himself where he's moaned about how people keep ordering the expensive stuff, shame on you all.

This started as a friendly bit of advice I thought and now people are using it to air their grievances. There's a special forum for that.

yomchi

Serious question - Do you believe this to be unfair? And do you wish to report the Redz advertisement of the UFC show and have it blocked?

I agree with you that the response to Orla's post was OOT, I made an attempt at guidelines here based off the ensuing debate that there was no guidelines.

No Colm, I don't wish to have anything MA related blocked or banned in this regard. I never had a problem with the Redz advert for UFC. It does however highlight hypocrisy and the sometimes one sidedness of the board. Scotty has 33 posts. Orlie has 54 or something but wasn't considered a regular poster by some.
I have no problems with anyone letting the MA community know whats happening in their part of their world - none whatsoever.
Up until Orla's post there was no need for guidelines, and I think within the charter there is still no need for pimpage guidlines. People just need to chill, it's ironic that the thread Orlie started that people had a problem with is being perpetuated by the very contributers that thought it a problem in the first place. If anyone had a problem with it, either report it or simply ignore it. It's not as if we're fighting for space here.

and i have to 'lol' at the hysteria around how 1 or 2 INDIVIDUALS replied to a single post

You understand the use of hyperbole well John! Maybe your idea of Hysteria is drastically different to mine?? In the context of the debate here at the moment, the thread was ideally timed. I'm glad it caught your attention :pac:

Mark Hamill

Jon wrote: »

Scotty has 33 posts. Orlie has 54 or something but wasn't considered a regular poster by some.

Look at what they have posted, all of Scottys 33 posts have been in Self Defense and Martial Arts, while Orlies contribution to SD&MA has been in starting 6 threads, 4 of them advertising and one in 2003 and one last August. She has posted in the Arts and Crafts forum on the 21st, so its not like she would have missed this argument if she bothered to look in this forum.

To all those who think its a big conspiracy by one side of the board: no-one complained about her previous "ads" here, here and here. No-one complained when Silat classes where advertised here, or combatives classes here or Escrima classes here.

The problem was not the act of advertising. Its not some big conspiracy. The problem with the ad is that it was about as subtle as a shovel in the face. IMO there would have been no problem if Orlie didn't have the "testimonials". The testimonials makes the post look fake and purely for the purpose of getting as much people to join as possible, like those internet sites with correspondence courses for amazing 5 minute ab workouts or something. (ie if Orlie was a regular poster or if people in the Karate world knew the club or the teacher, why would the post need testimonials?).

Judomad

Jon wrote: »

Scotty has 33 posts. Orlie has 54 or something but wasn't considered a regular poster by some.

how bloody petty of you...

HammerHeadGym

Roper wrote: »

... you have these not too subtle inferences that somehow people are manipulating threads as advertisements and that there are people posting here purely for promotion. I'm referring here to the mock conversations between posters on the last thread...

I presume this is aimed at me. I think you've taken this out of context. To clarify I'm not suggesting that people arrange before hand to come on and chat back and forth about the club the're in nor am I implying that there anything sinister going on. I was in fact drawing a comparison between 2 boardsies who know each other discussing the gym they train in and testimonials from anonymous contributors. ANd the fact that both were as useful/useless as each other.

RedXIV

amazing, no matter where we go, politics seem to ruin Martial Arts.

Charlie3dan

Cant believe this is still going on....

Here's what kind of replies orlie's post got elsewhere:

http://maireland.proboards50.com/index.cgi?board=clubskerry&action=display&thread=674

We all use the board for advertising. Some of us are less blatant granted but the mods are there to decide what constitutes abuse and what doesn't. Another point here is that without a specific section for club listings etc, there's always gonna be that kind of posting slash advertsing going on. It's part of what the boards are about, let the mods sort out the abusers as they see fit.

I wouldn't want any of the advertising posts deleted. I don't get involved in every single thing here but I choose what to gloss over and what not to. I still like to know that there's BJJ seminar or whatever going on and it's still useful to know that if I happen to find myself in dublin during a UFC event that there's a pub that shows the fights!
Whether the owner makes a million out of advertising here or a club gains a million new members or not is irrelevant.

I'm sure I'm classed as a TMA guy and I don't find there's bias toward MMA advertising.
The population here is more MMA than TMA sure, but it's up to the TMA guys to create the balance.

yomchi

Judomad wrote: »

how bloody petty of you...

That wooshing sound was my point flying over your head

Dragan

Charlie, with all due respect this is, at times, one of the most bitter forums on boards.

Are you really surprised by the responses they got here?

Charlie3dan

I'm suprised it's lead to a debate that spilled into two threads and has gone on this long, but then, I'm often suprised about how upset people get about who posts what where on forums.

Judomad

Jon wrote: »

That wooshing sound was my point flying over your head

no i understood exactly what your point was, i just thought it was quite petty, but then again i am in an arguementive and aggressive mood today

Nothingcompares

Colm's moderation should never be in question, he's one of the best mods around on this site and is perfect for this role.

The great thing about this forum is that there is about 10 people that have an opinion on everything from something that is within their considered area of expertise to something they'll even admit they know next to nothing about. Obviously, this can also lead to problems/arguments. But I think it's a good thing, an entertaining thing.

I don't think people should try and debate specific topics like

"Orlie only has 50 posts but Scotty has 30 therefore on that technicality your point is moot." Although I'll even try and counter this way of thinking and say Scotty's post was pre-emptive because regularly people ask "what pubs/is redz showing ufc this weekend", it wasn't too long ago when everyone didn't have bravo/broadband.

The bickering is never going to go away and this isn't a democracy anyway.

Dragan

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Colm's moderation should never be in question, he's one of the best mods around on this site and is perfect for this role.

Agreed. The fact that anyone would question Colm's ability as a Mod is a joke. Has it ever occured to people that this place has a good few Mods but only one who actively helps out in the forum?

It's because you guys can be tough to Mod.

Dave Joyce

O great divine Colom, I think that any fecker that would c0ome on here with drink taken should be barred for LIFE!!!!! ............WHOOPS that could include me now, so coold youn include tjhat it doesnt' count if your poisen was BULMERS.........if you only knew how times it took me to spell that right.:eek::o:p:pac::D:):mad::cool::(:rolleyes:;)

Nothingcompares

Dave Joyce wrote: »

O great divine Colom, I think that any fecker that would c0ome on here with drink taken should be barred for LIFE!!!!! ............WHOOPS that could include me now, so coold youn include tjhat it doesnt' count if your poisen was BULMERS.........if you only knew how times it took me to spell that right.:eek::o:p:pac::D:):mad::cool::(:rolleyes:;)

scottydog

mmmm...:Dforgive me if i feel compelled to reply..or add my tuppence worth...or should that be 2 euro?:p The idea that i am giving a free plug for business benifit is mind-boggling! I have shown the ufc in Redz for several years and before that i would show it in the Turks Head when that was probably the busiest bar in the city.. why? because i was lucky to be in a position to do so:cool: and when Redz is redevolped i will show it there too!:)

All drink is sold for 2 euro..i have to pay bar staff to work...there is no cover charge...i come in myself when i could lie on my couch and watch it at home..one particurlarly unattractive ufc was watched by me, bravo, a dog, a cat, and a latvian barmaid....if i was doing this for business id be bust!:mad::eek:

I am sorry for not having so many posts but im kinda old and until last year i was still using an abacus:o

Here endeth the rant and c ya trow:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dragan wrote: »

Agreed. The fact that anyone would question Colm's ability as a Mod is a joke. .

I think Colm put the question into people's heads with his earlier comment, which 'tongue in cheek' or not wasn't helped when he edited his post and appear to back peddle when he was called out on it.

Dragan wrote: »

It's because you guys can be tough to Mod.

:rolleyes:

Personally I think Colm has one of the easier forum's to Moderate, and mostly he does a fine job of it. Things do become hot sometimes, but unlike the other forum's most of us here know each other through our shared love/apprication of martial arts & discussions usually 'peter out' and find their own level without too much interference from a Moderator.

Having another Mod here might not be a bad idea.

Personally I think this forum has become somewhat stagnant, there doesn't appear to be any new idea's floating about as to how the board can grow and attract new membership. People tell me they've requested various additions to the forum and their requests went unanswered, how true or not that is I don't know. But now is the time for those same people to step up and put their stamp on things.

So an additional Mod might add some fresh impetus to the forum.

cowzerp

I agree, another mod would be a good idea, 2 out of 3 mods now are inactive, or dont post on this thread anyway.

i personally wrote on a thread to the mods about getting it made a sticky and got no reply either way, i would not of even complained if they said it was a craap idea-but in this case the modding on this forum was non existant.

ps. imo get in a mod that people feel will help and will be helpful..

Mikel

scottydog wrote: »

mmmm...:Dforgive me if i feel compelled to reply..or add my tuppence worth...or should that be 2 euro?:p The idea that i am giving a free plug for business benifit is mind-boggling!

To be fair, I don't think the point was that you were making money out of it.
Some of us pointed out that there is a large amount of advertising of various things in this forum, which no one has any problem with. But then one particular post drew the ire of some because it was a 'blatant advertisement'.
When it was pointed out that a lot of people do this the replies were along the lines of 'it's ok if you're a regular poster'.
I asked for a definition of 'regular poster' as there are some who post mostly when they're promoting something, and Jon ( I think) compared your number of posts to someone else, which is fair enough imo because it shows how inconsistent some people are being about this.

Judomad

i also agree with this, i think another mod should be added, the likes of paul or somebody with a level head and somebody who wont post then edit there post when they realised they fudged up should be appointed....i think there should be a poll or something to see who the 2nd mod is, put maybe 2 or 3 lads in a poll....maybe paul(boxing background), Jon(TKD) and Mairt(just a headwrecking B@stard haha)

conor rowan

due to the beautiful spiralling nature of arguments i think we're all losing sight of colms post.

my impression was that colm was trying to put a bit of structure on the forum to make it more user friendly and avoid unnneccessary arguments (as opposed to informative debates to which we should all aspire to)

however, structure on a forum? im gonna go with the analogy "trying to herd cats"

Judomad

signature test

cowzerp

Judomad wrote: »

i also agree with this, i think another mod should be added, the likes of paul or somebody with a level head,

Level head! Yeah right.
Thanks for the plug but its not for me, i prefer to be giving out without answering to people.

Mark Hamill

Mikel wrote: »

I asked for a definition of 'regular poster' as there are some who post mostly when they're promoting something, and Jon ( I think) compared your number of posts to someone else, which is fair enough imo because it shows how inconsistent some people are being about this.

I already answered this in my post here. You cant just compare the number of posts of each poster, you have to compare the number of posts they've made in this (the SD&MA) forum. All of Scottys post have been made here, about 6 of Orlies have been. Also seeing as shes posted in Arts & Crafts since starting this thread (only a few days ago) and she hasn't tried to defend herself here, she obviously doesn't even look in here unless she's advertising something.
Saying you can't advertise unless you are a regular poster might be a bit ambiguous in terms of how many posts that actually means, but a little bit of common sense should be applied when deciding.

Roper

Oh will you all just stop please?

If you were all posting in other boards you'd all have been banned by now. Colm does a good job because he does very little, other people ban and delete willy nilly.

Just leave it as is and stop moaning.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Judomad wrote: »

maybe paul(boxing background), Jon(TKD) and Mairt(just a headwrecking B@stard haha)

Ya must be bleed'n joking, then I'd have to ban Jon & Roper from using big words and complicated replies to simple questions.

This is a pretty good forum as it is, but it could be better, however suggestions seem to go unnoticed, or we fight over the one's made public - then we all drift off to another new thread and no one remembers what the hell caused all the fuss in the first place.

Dragan

to be honest guys, if half these threads started in fitness a lot of you would be banned. colm lets you guys have it pretty easy. can't believe you have an issue with that.