Afterhours hatefest

lostexpectation

why is this thread in afterhours ?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055297244

humanji

Because it doesn't fit in the Ladies Lounge?

aidan_walsh

Stormfront didn't want it.

Dinter

In my (limited) experience of After Hours it seems to me that if all references to the Roma were replaced with "big, fat, warmongering, obnoxious Americans" there'd be far less people whining about the thread.

People should see try and see a thread for what it is, i.e. people's frustrations with a particular, easily identifiable group of people and not the cause celebre they wish it was.

Sherifu

No other forum would take it. Even TCN laughed at it.

AARRRGH

Pretending the Irish Roma population are decent members of society is retarded.

I have never seen a single Roma apply for a job, and I run a load of jobsites. I've seen hundreds of thousands of CVs.

They don't want to work. They only take from our society.

It is not racist/whatever to admit this.

I can understand why people have an issue with them.

If the thread was about killing them or some other illegal act, that'd be a totally different matter.

challengemaster

Sherifu wrote: »

No other forum would take it. Even TCN laughed at it.

That we did.. Oo-Rah!

Rb

lostexpectation wrote: »

why is this thread in afterhours ?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055297244

A Bleeding Hearts/Lets Be As Pc As Can Be forum hasn't been set up yet.

Dinter

dublindude wrote: »

Pretending the Irish Roma population are decent members of society is retarded.

I have never seen a single Roma apply for a job, and I run a load of jobsites. I've seen hundreds of thousands of CVs.

They don't want to work. They only take from our society.

It is not racist/whatever to admit this.

I can understand why people have an issue with them.

Yes but you have to realise it's just so much easier to use the racist card and that way circumvent everyone's points that don't agree with your own.
I think it should also be noted that there is a poll running on what sort of experiences boards members have had with the Roma. At the moment it stands at:

Good, friendly nice helpful people, I would have them as my neighbour! = 3

Bad, they were begging, trying to rip me or someone else off! = 125

I think that explains why this thread deserves airtime on a current affairs board.

dublindude wrote: »

If the thread was about killing them or some other illegal act, that'd be a totally different matter.

+1

Overheal

Dinter wrote: »

In my (limited) experience of After Hours it seems to me that if all references to the Roma were replaced with "big, fat, warmongering, obnoxious Americans" there'd be far less people whining about the thread.

But the great thing about americans in a war, digital or otherwise? It only takes one of us to push a button.

I do enough whining for thousands, thank you very much. You should have seen the racial state of AH before I started posting in it. That was racist alright.

Terry

Overheal wrote: »

But the great thing about americans in a war, digital or otherwise? It only takes one of us to push a button.

And that's why the world hates America.
Not what you said, but how you said it.

I do enough whining for thousands, thank you very much.

He's not lying.

Overheal

The whole pride thing? There's very little to be proud of when you are American, lets be fair. I just don't think its necessary to butcher it to death when its down. Especially with fat ugly stupid etc. tripe.

Terry

Overheal wrote: »

The whole pride thing? There's very little to be proud of when you are American, lets be fair. I just don't think its necessary to butcher it to death when its down. Especially with fat ugly stupid etc. tripe.

Pay no mind to me.
I'm a drunken Irish man.

Overheal

Ah now. Its hard to tell if youre being sarcastic or drunk. You do both a lot usually with amusing results by your own admission.

Terry

Drunk.

Overheal

Enjoy the Match.

Terry

Overheal wrote: »

Enjoy the Match.

It's over. The scum won*. Fluked a few penalties and are now mourning dead people.















































I supported Liverpool when I was a kid.

Dinter

Overheal wrote: »

The whole pride thing? There's very little to be proud of when you are American, lets be fair. I just don't think its necessary to butcher it to death when its down. Especially with fat ugly stupid etc. tripe.

That's my point though Overheal.

Anything can be said about Americans and nobody gives a rats arse because the stereotypical American is not a slightly different shade to me. Personally I think it's a crock!

Imo American's play an important role in ensuring that most of the maddest members of the world concentrate on them.

WhiteWashMan

lostexpectation wrote: »

why is this thread in afterhours ?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055297244

where would you prefer it to be, and why are you worried about where it is anyway?

tbh

^^^^^^^^^^^

FYI: this is a loaded question.

Maximilian

Its very easy to self-righteously proclaim those Roma threads to be racist or xenophobic and that's what a number of people have in fact done. Forget debate - just brand everyone.

The simple undeniable fact is that Roma piss people off. People are pissed off with them not because they are racist but because that is their experience. There's simply no point in denying it, so why not debate it? That's one the reasons Boards exists.

The thread the OP mentions was very interesting before it was sidetracked by a few people throwing "OMG racist" accusations and what not.

Doctor DooM

What is very annoying in that thread for me is myself and others are constantly being called "bleeding heart liberals" meant in an extremely insulting way for merely stating that anyone regardless of ethnicity should be judged on an individual basis.
Bear in mind the "pro roma" people (who aren't pro anyone, thats kind of the point) are actually agreeing thieves and what not SHOULD be flung out. No one wants to actually discuss it: Its too much fun to take a pop at people who don't agree with the masses. "Political Correctness gone mad!" is apparently stating that mob rule support by organised crime is bad, mmkay(the actual point of the thread.)

First time someone is called a racist, they're banned.



(I know it's a rule in AH, but it is a spectacularly hate filled thread.)

faceman

Its funny how things come full circle.

There was a time if you spoke out about an issue with a member of a foreign community you are immediately branded a racist.

Now if you speak out to say not everyone is the same etc etc, you are branded a do-gooder/bleeding heart!

Funny that.

Anyway what are we talking about again, gypsies or the ladies lounge? I dont think we can generalise and say they are both the same?

Doctor DooM

faceman wrote: »

Its funny how things come full circle.

There was a time if you spoke out about an issue with a member of a foreign community you are immediately branded a racist.

Now if you speak out to say not everyone is the same etc etc, you are branded a do-gooder/bleeding heart!

Funny that.

Anyway what are we talking about again, gypsies or the ladies lounge? I dont think we can generalise and say they are both the same?

Don't be using that word, according to Degsy its evil.

TerrorFirmer

This thread title makes me giggle.

Karoma

lostexpectation wrote: »

why is this thread in afterhours ?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055297244

I haven't read the rest of the thread properly yet, sorry if I'm missing something, but:
I didn't see your username again so I'll ask: Why shouldn't it be in AH? You didn't say. I also don't see a single reported post about it, so it's not said there either.

Marcus.Aurelius

I can't see any issue here. We have a socially self-excluded group of people who cannot seek asylum as members of the EU, or seek social welfare payments because of our rule (to prohibit them in the first place).

Yet they refuse to work, and drive the crime rate (wherever they are) sky high, disproportionate to the local population. They beg, irritating drivers, manipulate everyone and endanger their children while dodging cars on the M50 off-ramps, begging!! I mean, what the hell??

The thread is justified as an argument. And its nice to see the bleeding hearts and other self-delusionary morons getting a whack of the good-sense-stick

Doctor DooM

maoleary wrote: »

I can't see any issue here. We have a socially self-excluded group of people who cannot seek asylum as members of the EU, or seek social welfare payments because of our rule (to prohibit them in the first place).

Yet they refuse to work, and drive the crime rate (wherever they are) sky high, disproportionate to the local population. They beg, irritating drivers, manipulate everyone and endanger their children while dodging cars on the M50 off-ramps, begging!! I mean, what the hell??

The thread is justified as an argument. And its nice to see the bleeding hearts and other self-delusionary morons getting a whack of the good-sense-stick

Actually, if you read the thread closely, you'll see the "self delusionary morons" are the ones asking what people would like to do about it, instead of throwing insults around- just like the one you just made.

Marcus.Aurelius

SDooM wrote: »

Actually, if you read the thread closely, you'll see the "self delusionary morons" are the ones asking what people would like to do about it, instead of throwing insults around- just like the one you just made.

I think the other side made their own solutions clear. Arrest them for child endangerment, then deport them for not having sufficient means to care for themselves, as evidenced by their behaviour. Might have to change a few pieces of legislation, ignore the eurocrats a bit, pay off a few whingers. But in the end, it could be done quite well.

In the end, the thread is justified and is a good measure of anti-sponger sentiment growing in Ireland. And we're going OT by arguing.

Doctor DooM

maoleary wrote: »

I think the other side made their own solutions clear. Arrest them for child endangerment, then deport them for not having sufficient means to care for themselves, as evidenced by their behaviour. Might have to change a few pieces of legislation, ignore the eurocrats a bit, pay off a few whingers. But in the end, it could be done quite well.

In the end, the thread is justified and is a good measure of anti-sponger sentiment growing in Ireland. And we're going OT by arguing.

This is the crux of the issue of the point of nexus of the thing:

The "bleeding liberals" and "morons" actually agreed with that. No problem at all with it. Stated many, many times. Of course, people with an agenda didn't let it get in the way of good ol bashing people with different opinions to them.

It is funny how the world turns.

Sam Vimes

maoleary wrote: »

I think the other side made their own solutions clear. Arrest them for child endangerment, then deport them for not having sufficient means to care for themselves, as evidenced by their behaviour. Might have to change a few pieces of legislation, ignore the eurocrats a bit, pay off a few whingers. But in the end, it could be done quite well.

In the end, the thread is justified and is a good measure of anti-sponger sentiment growing in Ireland. And we're going OT by arguing.

that is our solution too. we just don't want people to arrest and deport people who haven't actually done anything wrong, simply because of their ethnicity, ie make sure these individual roma people are actually endangering their children before deporting them, rather than saying "you're a roma, therefore you must be endangering your children. f*ck off out of here"

Dinter

SDooM wrote: »

This is the crux of the issue of the point of nexus of the thing:

The "bleeding liberals" and "morons" actually agreed with that. No problem at all with it. Stated many, many times. Of course, people with an agenda didn't let it get in the way of good ol bashing people with different opinions to them.

It is funny how the world turns.

In all fairness though a lot of the anti Roma people (to generalise for ease) are purely talking about solutions to deal with Romas who are commiting crimes.

A lot of the generalisations are coming from the anti anti Roma people (to generalise for ease again). Certainly I've seen it reitierated time and again that comments are not aimed at the Roma due to ethnicity or anything as easily identifiable as that. And yet this does not sate the people who cannot see an issue except in purely PC terms.

I detest the fact that people's freedom of speech can be interrupted or even halted purely because it offends some people's ideas of what protection freedom of speech entitles people to.

I fully believe that there are claims of racism or bigotry in that thread against people on the most spurious and specious of grounds.

Being crude for a moment what really pops into my head when I read some of the obvious unfounded accusations of Racism is:

A: There's none so pure as a reformed hoor

or,

B: The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Marcus.Aurelius

Sam Vimes wrote: »

that is our solution too. we just don't want people to arrest and deport people who haven't actually done anything wrong, simply because of their ethnicity, ie make sure these individual roma people are actually endangering their children before deporting them, rather than saying "you're a roma, therefore you must be endangering your children. f*ck off out of here"

How odd, I don't recall saying "deport them all".

Strange, that.

Sam Vimes

Dinter wrote: »

In all fairness though a lot of the anti Roma people (to generalise for ease) are purely talking about solutions to deal with Romas who are commiting crimes.

then why even mention romas? why not simply say "people who commit crimes"?. why must there be a separate policy to deal with criminals who happen to be roma?

Dinter wrote: »

I fully believe that there are claims of racism or bigotry in that thread against people on the most spurious and specious of grounds.

i hope that you're not talking about the one i got banned for. what degsy said was (shortened) "would you hire a traveller or a roma? no you wouldn't".

that would have him prosecuted, fined and jailed for being racist. yet the comment "just because you're racist doesn't mean everyone else is" got me banned.

Sam Vimes

maoleary wrote: »

How odd, I don't recall saying "deport them all".

Strange, that.

i didn't say you did say that. and nobody used those exact words. i was paraphrasing.

why can't we all just sit down and say "how do we deal with all these criminals"? rather than "how do we deal with these romas?", with the assumption that they are criminals?

when we start to make one policy for the majority and another for a small group, we start on a slippery slope. not too long ago, everyone thought it was ok to have separate laws for blacks and whites. now that's unthinkable but when we talk about irish and roma it's fine for some reason

Marcus.Aurelius

It might be a generalisation, but in the case of the Roma who live that way, its 100% true. Rephrasing it so it doesnt hurt their itsy-bitsy feelings doesn't change the big picture. And its naive to think it does

Sam Vimes

maoleary wrote: »

It might be a generalisation, but in the case of the Roma who live that way, its 100% true. Rephrasing it so it doesnt hurt their itsy-bitsy feelings doesn't change the big picture. And its naive to think it does

when people talk about what to do about the roma, whether they like to admit it or not, they're making the assumption that all of the roma live that way, and treat them as such. i have no problem with f*cking out the roma that live that way, i have a problem with assuming that someone lives that way because they're a roma without giving them a chance to prove otherwise, such as with degsy who'd kick them out of an interview regardless of what they said

Sam Vimes

i'm going to stop now because this isn't really what feedback is for

lostexpectation

i said _hate_fest

Tha Gopher

lostexpectation wrote: »

why is this thread in afterhours ?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055297244

Do you have a problem with non racist, fact based freedom of expression?

Clearly, you do.

Out of curiousity how many Roma have you ever met?

Doctor DooM

If I ever get to record an album professionally, I am going to name it After hours Hate Fest, btw.

Sam Vimes

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Do you have a problem with non racist, fact based freedom of expression?

Clearly, you do.

Out of curiousity how many Roma have you ever met?

oh yeah i must have missed all the census data and statistics that prove that every roma in the country and all their future children that aren't yet born have multiple convictions. silly me

Maximilian

Sam Vimes wrote: »

oh yeah i must have missed all the census data and statistics that prove that every roma in the country and all their future children that aren't yet born have multiple convictions. silly me

Sam it appears to me you are trying to extend & continue your arguments from the AH threads becuase you have been banned from AH. The topic at hand was whether such a discussion was properly in AH at all.

Karoma

lostexpectation wrote: »

i said _hate_fest

...and it's a problem because..?
AH is one big hate fest - they hate work, they hate people who stand on escalators, people who mispel. There are posted with very strong anti-Roma views. There are people with very strong anti-work views. There are posters who oppose their views. It's called argumentation / discussion.
I will not stand for all-out racist rhetoric / 'incitement to hatred', but discussion is certainly permissible and (dare I say it?) welcome.
Now, would you kindly articulate your arguement and back it up with something (In simpler terms: Point out exactly what you think is wrong, and what you think is wrong with it). Otherwise, as well as missing the PM function and Report This Post, you missed the Get It Off Your Chest thread.

SDooM wrote: »

If I ever get to record an album professionally, I am going to name it After hours Hate Fest, btw.

Catchy.

Doctor DooM

Dinter wrote: »

In all fairness though a lot of the anti Roma people (to generalise for ease) are purely talking about solutions to deal with Romas who are commiting crimes.

A lot of the generalisations are coming from the anti anti Roma people (to generalise for ease again). Certainly I've seen it reitierated time and again that comments are not aimed at the Roma due to ethnicity or anything as easily identifiable as that. And yet this does not sate the people who cannot see an issue except in purely PC terms.

I detest the fact that people's freedom of speech can be interrupted or even halted purely because it offends some people's ideas of what protection freedom of speech entitles people to.

I fully believe that there are claims of racism or bigotry in that thread against people on the most spurious and specious of grounds.

Being crude for a moment what really pops into my head when I read some of the obvious unfounded accusations of Racism is:

A: There's none so pure as a reformed hoor

or,

B: The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

The threads basically borked because people who actually want to discuss the issue are getting caught up in "SHUT UP YOU RACIST!", "NO SHUT UP LIBERAL SCUM" slanging.

I asked several times for people to give straight answers, which was ignored in earnest and of course just followed with further "Im not racist, but they're all rotten" comments.

I think AH should be renamed "After Hatred." Another great CD title there.

kmart6

Rb wrote: »

A Bleeding Hearts/Lets Be As Pc As Can Be forum hasn't been set up yet.

And we don't need one either!!!

Lockstep

Marcus.Aurelius

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Stop.....laughing..........tee hee....

Damn.

Dinter

SDooM wrote: »

The threads basically borked because people who actually want to discuss the issue are getting caught up in "SHUT UP YOU RACIST!", "NO SHUT UP LIBERAL SCUM" slanging. .

Couldn’t agree more.

SDooM wrote: »

I asked several times for people to give straight answers, which was ignored in earnest and of course just followed with further "Im not racist, but they're all rotten" comments.

Or the you’re all rotten racist intimations that the thread is filled with

In any debate it’s important to remember that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

SDooM wrote: »

I think AH should be renamed "After Hatred."

Nah, that presumes that AH will stop having hatred in it!

Doctor DooM

Dinter wrote: »

in any debate it’s important to remember that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Where did the cigar come from? Has it got a job? Do you choose to never smoke cigars of a brand, because you had a bad experience of one once?

WhiteWashMan

so, we havent come up with a reason to move this thread form AH?

good stuff.