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N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [under construction]



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭ Mrs Dempsey

    Perhaps it was previously discussed but it looks like the Milstreet junction has off slips but no on slips (acceleration lane). I'm unaware of any similar DC junctions - what's the background on this?

  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭ KrisW1001

    Yes, none of the junctions have on-slips. This is what the “Compact” in Compact Grade-Separated Junction means (the next step up is called “left-in, left-out” or LILO, and that does have acceleration lanes). There’s around 150 m of deceleration lane coming up to each exit, but it’s a straight left-turn for joiners.

    But in fairness, this road is not a motorway; it’s a 100km/h main road and the traffic levels are low by motorway standards. If you want to join, you wait until there’s enough space for you get on and accelerate - it won’t take long. Also, the junctions are very visible, so people already on the road can pull over into the passing lane when they see traffic joining.

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,493 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21

    The junctions on the N4 and N5 Type 2 schemes are the same.

    To a lay man they may seem dangerous but there’s more than enough spare capacity on these roads for the left lane to be used as a merging lane and a breakdown lane if needed. As Kris pointed out the road is 100km/h too not a full blown motorway

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,684 ✭✭✭✭ road_high

    Unfortunately this is what can happen. Many motorists aren’t able to properly enter a motorway never mind one of these. They’re completely oblivious to all around them. Ideally they should add an acceleration lane

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  • Registered Users Posts: 35 gooseman12

    I know it doesn't make a blind bit of a difference to most road users, but are the signs on the entry lanes onto the road showing stop or yield?

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,274 ✭✭✭ veryangryman

    I like the way the thread title still says "under construction"

    It gives one hope for improvement on the work done

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29 thomas385

    I'd imagine they will have it fixed (relatively!) soon. The same thing happened with the Castlebaldwin N4 bypass, but was fixed after a few months

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762

    That is true, there is pretty much no country on the planet that would build a dual carriageway thesedays for the amount of traffic that uses them. That said, there is pretty much no western country where the dual carriageway is replacing a road that is so poor.

    I do think they made a very good decision though - a 2+1 or a good single carriageway would do the job. They used to say a 2+2 is 10% more expensive to build for not much more land take, and sticking to these for work like the N22 is an extremely good move.

  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭ dontmindme

    Should there not be a broken line inside that stop line?

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭ serfboard

    As you say people like that behave like this on other junctions. I've often seen drivers pull out onto the hard shoulder of two-lane roads and treat it as a merge lane - often without seeming even to look.

    My solution? A ruddy great speed bump just before the junction - you know one of those lethal ones that makes you come to an almost complete stop.

    And to people who say that we shouldn't have to counter bad driving behaviour - we do this all the time. That's why we have drink-drive and speed limits. I'd rather counter the bad behaviour than end up with a horrific crash.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,952 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph

    I think a severe speed bump at stop lines is a really good idea to enforce coming to a complete stop. In fact we already have them, kind of. At traffic calmed junctions with pavements and cycle lanes continuing through the junction at the same grade, vehicular traffic is faced effectively, with a massive speed bump. The concept could be employed here too, just without the pedestrian/cyclist facility.

    Having said that, we overuse the stop line in Ireland. In this case I think it's entirely justified but most cases could be handled with a yield sign but we force traffic to a stop where it's not necessary. Sadly people then treat all stop signs with less respect than they command in countries where they are used more sparingly.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,907 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    I dont agree, the line of sight for people is poor at that stop sign, anybody with eyesight issues, or health issues makes that line of sight worse, entering a road which traffic is traveling at 100km from a standing start is asking for trouble.

    A merge lane, where some drivers dont know how to merge in or allow people to merge in has its problems as well but at least cars are not entering from a standing start and the traffic on the road has more visibility of them, you can read their intentions and hopefully see a clear indicator flashing.

    Time will tell i suppose and road design has come a long way, but entering a road at an angle from a standing start with traffic driving at 100km is a terrible idea i think.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭ niloc1951

    Apart from the other issues you mentioned, the issue of entering at an angle hadn't occurred to me. Personally, I have limited neck rotation and have to adjust my vehicle orientation to ensure I can see to my right at such junctions. I've two choices, use my mirrors to merge from a merging lane, or if there is no merging lane stop with my vehicle at 90° to the road I'm joining and quickly apply full left lock when taking off.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,907 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    personally i prefer to use my mirrors for merging because there is less of a blind spot, but there is the OP that bad drivers are bad drivers, but bad drivers in a bad junction is a dangerous recipe.

    There is a small merging lane onto the south link inbound where cars frequently get to the end of the short merging lane and have to stop, traffic volumes are a different level but

    I can see the junction being an issue, i travel the road a small bit but havent been on it yet.

    Also its not just the entrance to the new road that could cause problems, the exit could be problematic, lead to late breaking, confusion, drastic lane changing and exiting at high speeds

  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ arsebiscuits82

    Been using the junction since the day it opened both directions and haven't had or seen an issue yet. The traffic volume on the road is small enough in reality.

    It's not like joining onto the M50!

    9 times out of 10 the traffic approaching move out to the passing lane once they see a vehicle at the junction.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭ niloc1951

    I would have said 9 out of 10 don't move over, that road must have an exceptionally high proportion of courteous drivers.

    IMHO the majority of Irish drivers seem to have a box 'em in mentality when it comes to merging traffic or drivers indicating to move to the overtaking lane to get past slower traffic, a sort of this is my lane stay away thinking.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭ yannakis

    Love how most of the replies to the compact junction layout are focusing on how drivers on the N22 could or should fix errors from drivers merging.. instead of looking at issue itself.

    People who will be familiar with the junction will learn how to stop when merging and to anticipate a lane change when travelling on N22. Everyone else will be either oblivious or confused.

    If the same mistake keeps happening, the road design is flawed. In my opinion, at this particular junction, the Stop sign will be missed over and over because it's placed on a shallow curve where drivers are expected to be looking diagonally over their right shoulder for oncoming traffic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭ Jayuu

    While I'm not entirely in favour of the compact junction layout the question has to be whether there is enough signage on the junctions and the approaches to them so that drivers know what's coming and how they should behave. Unfortunately Google Maps doesn't have a street view of the junctions yet so I can't tell what is or isn't present.

    There comes a certain point where we can't (or shouldn't attempt to) design out every possible thing that drivers could do and assume that if you are in charge of a vehicle that can travel at speed you have a responsibility to know how to read the road signage and behave appropriately according to the rules of the road. I know that's probably wishful thinking but it does frustrate me that driver responsibility is far too often ignored in favour of trying to design out stupidity.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ cantalach

    I used the new junction the other day to enter the N22 eastbound from the Millstreet Road. Pains me to be so critical, but the compact junction implementation there seems poor to me. It is a certainty that people will drive through that Stop sign without looking. Its positioning means that it is easily missed. I was surprised too how long I was waiting at the Stop sign for a usable gap in the slow lane, thanks to a little bunch of 4 cars in the slow lane, none of whom moved over to the fast lane to let me join (as is their prerogative). I’ll be surprised if there isn’t a significant rethink at that junction within a few years.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭ cantalach

    I would have said something similar having driven the bypass a few times…until I actually used the junction the other day. If I can borrow lingo from another branch of engineering, even a good design pattern can have a poor implementation, and I think that is the case here.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭ niloc1951

    We passed over that rubicon many moons ago. Just look at modern vehicles with auto dipping headlights, auto wipers, lane divergence warnings, auto braking, etc., etc., etc. Stupidity has now long been designed out which is why the capability of driving properly is being steadily eroded away among the general population.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭ niloc1951

    thanks to a little bunch of 4 cars in the slow lane, none of whom moved over to the fast lane to let me join (as is their prerogative)

    It's not really their prerogative, it's a display of bad driving without consideration for other road users.

    Being a regular driver in other countries I'm always disappointed by the 'box 'em in' attitude of most drivers here, moving across to the next lane to allow other drivers to merge or momentarily easing off on the throttle to allow a vehicle ahead to overtake a slower vehicle seems to be a no-no here but is commonplace elsewhere.