working rotator cuff in a workout...

TKD SC

Hi Guys,

Just wondering how many people / if you think good idea to do some specific rotator cuff work within a workout - only being as strong as the weakest link and all that, or would they get worked anyway / sufficiently as part of the main exercises of DL, Bench, Squat, Pullups, Press up etc??

I've something funny going on with my right one so trying to strengthen it (seen a physio & osteopath so not looking for any medical advise here). Not sure if my rotator cuff specific exercises are really doing a great deal, but going to continue them anyway. So, just wondering in general what thoughts are on doing some specific rotator cuff ex's in workouts - even as a means of injury prevention?

I'm just posting my current workout below as typed it out recently so just pasting it here while I'm at it, if anyone has any comments on this also would be very much appreciated. It takes 45mins exactly altough wouldnt mind shortening it a little as always rushing in gym in the morning! There's an A & B workout and I alternate them...

3 Sets x 8-10 Reps. If I have "/" below, means I might do 2 sets of 1st and 1 set of the 2nd...
Workout A:
Warmup - 2min row and some stretches
Press-ups (x20) / Dips
Squat / Split Squat
Bench Press / Fly
Deadlift
Military Press (with shrug at end)
Straight leg, straight back deadlift
Cuban press / seated dumbell power clean (rotator cuff related)
Face pulls (rotator cuff related)
Pull-ups / Chin-ups

Workout B:
Warmup - 2min row and some stretches
Pull-ups / Chin-ups
Squat / split squat
Bent over row (underhand / overhand / single)
Power clean
Delt flys (that's what I call them anyway!)
Straight leg, straight back deadlift
Straight arm front raises @30 degree angle (thumbs up / thumbs down) (rotator cuff related)
Lying on bench - 3 types of rotator cuff ex's
Back extensions

Finish off each with another 2mins / 500m on rowing machine. I don't mind doing squats & DL's on same day (mentioned recently in another thread) as the weights in my gym dont go extremely heavy so its fine...

Thanks a million

Simon

podge57

Your rotator cuffs will get used in other exercises, but its crucial to warm them up on their own(esp. for chest and shoulders), as rc injuries are one of the most common and easiest to occur

Try the exercises at the bottom of this link

http://www.leehayward.com/rotator_cuff.htm

Edit: also, i would say you have way too much volume in your workouts, i would try to split it up into about 3, maybe 4 different workouts

Colm_OReilly

Since it's been a while since I referred someone to Rip...

http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1463&highlight=rotator

TKD SC

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Since it's been a while since I referred someone to Rip...

http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1463&highlight=rotator

Not Rip again!!! Hope all good with you..

From following links from the above gave these:

"Shoulder impingement isn't caused or worsened by pressing. Impingement happens when the humerus is abducted and externally rotated. Pressing builds strength in the whole shoulder, including the so-called rotator cuff muscles. Impingements can be alleviated.
Double your press and you have doubled the strength of your rotator cuff. That way there is no need for the well-known rotator-cuff isolation exercises that Rippetoe and Kilgore referred to irreverently as "those little arm-waving things." Unless you're coming off of surgery. Rehab and strength training are different places on the spectrum of training."


"If you believe this is simple impingement, and you don't think the tear is a factor, up the ibuprofen to 800mg x 4/day for 5 days, and then start the Starr rehab with presses, making sure to shrug into the lockout. But add this as a warmup: hang with a pullup (prone) grip for several 15 second reps from the bar, then several more with a chin grip (supine). Then do a couple of sets of 20 light lat pulldowns with a chin grip. This should prepare the shoulder capsule for the pressing.

Do presses only for 3 months after this is healed, and then re-introduce benches with a moderate grip, and from then on do your benches 1:1 with presses. This keeps the shoulder in balance, and prevents these kinds of problems."

Interesting! If I thought presses were better than the isolation type rotator cuff ex's I'd be much happier spending my time on them. Or, If I just took a couple mins to do 1 set of the rotator cuff exs as part of my warm-up...

Hanley

I think it was in an Eric Cressey article that I read about the overhyping of RC problems as the root of all shoulder evil. He (or whoever the author was) suggested that it was scapular problems that were leading to shoulder injuries. I know I've had a lot of scap trouble, as have numerous guys I train with. If we didn't use good physio this might simply have been pegged as "RC problems".

Anyway my opinion is that in the absence of pre-existing shoulder injuries (and even in the case of minor ones) just working on your upper back will do more than enough to keep your shoulders healthy and your bench strong. But take it for what it's worth, I have no medical training and am just going off my own body and what I beleive to be common sense!!

I listed my favourite exercises and some more thoughts here yesterday;
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55986481&postcount=18

TKD SC

Hanley wrote: »

I think it was in an Eric Cressey article that I read about the overhyping of RC problems as the root of all shoulder evil. He (or whoever the author was) suggested that it was scapular problems that were leading to shoulder injuries. I know I've had a lot of scap trouble, as have numerous guys I train with. If we didn't use good physio this might simply have been pegged as "RC problems".

Anyway my opinion is that in the absence of pre-existing shoulder injuries (and even in the case of minor ones) just working on your upper back will do more than enough to keep your shoulders healthy and your bench strong. But take it for what it's worth, I have no medical training and am just going off my own body and what I beleive to be common sense!!

I listed my favourite exercises and some more thoughts here yesterday;
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55986481&postcount=18

Hi Hanley,
Thanks for that. Yeh, I read a lot of Eric Creasy's articles before re rotator cuff - that's where I got alot of my rotator cuff ex's from, as well as from the osteopath. They don't seem to be doing much though!!
I have included face-pulls and seated power cleans too for last few weeks...

Thanks,

Simon

Colm_OReilly

As a counterpoint Coach Rut has an article in the Performance Menu on Prehabbing the shoulders - I'll have a looksee and revert.

Mikel

Cressey's article

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1426252

TKD SC

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

As a counterpoint Coach Rut has an article in the Performance Menu on Prehabbing the shoulders - I'll have a looksee and revert.

Did you find anything on this? I can't get into that site at work...

Thanks!