Extreme double standards

Dudess

Check out this video from the latest Winehouse type:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO_TaTblcP8

A guy hung upside down and bound with a load of rope, a guy with a load of electrical cords wrapped round him, a guy who looks like he's had his face slapped around and the girl taunts him and pours an unidentified liquid on his face, a guy lying on the floor bound from shoulders to ankles in masking/duct tape, a guy in a cage etc, etc.

Now just imagine if the genders were reversed... "Imagine" being the operative word, because that video is never gonna be made.

And at the end she releases the hanging upside down guy so he lands on his head.

Maybe it's supposed to signify that those guys are into that sort of thing, or maybe they're all ex boyfriends who wronged her in some way and she's getting her revenge. There's no evidence to indicate either is the case. And even so, would it matter? Maybe the former would be a tad more acceptable, but even so, I still don't think such a video would be made with the genders swapped.

Overheal

..........what?

judas101

doesnt bother me.

dont see how it would bother other blokes either tbh.

would it be scandalous if the genders were reversed? of course.

do people give a crap? not really.

we live with lots of double standards.

its an interesting topic, that of double standards. racial double standards really piss me off but that's another threads work i think.

KnifeWRENCH

Most disturbing thing is that she's only 16! Pretty good song though

Overheal

Those videos happen all the time. its called LA Rap.

Dudess

Not with stuff as extreme as that being done to women.

She looks 23 though. And probably acts it. Apparently she began her career at 13 so she's no doubt done a hell of a lot of growing up.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

The double standards are irritating, imo it's down to the fact that men are much more physically strong than women, and the idea of a woman beating seven shades of ****e out of a man, or engaging in sexual violence towards a man, (while definitely something that happens) hits much less of a nerve with most people. If you listen to some rap/hip-hop, the images they create of sexual violence towards women make that video seem like a Betty Page DVD, but they don't have the guts to put what they say in the videos etc, because for many people the image of a man engaging in any violence, particularly sexual violence, towards a woman is like seeing piranhas eat a live mouse (that video's also on youtube I just cba linking it)

KnifeWRENCH

Dudess wrote: »

Not with stuff as extreme as that being done to women.

Yeah I imagine that would be seen as offensive. I guess it's more acceptable to see a woman in position of power over guys because it acts against the "men are strong, women are weak" stereotype.
If things were the other way around, it would be accused of reinforcing stereotypes.

Red Hand

Nothing sweet about her? Is that not the point of the video?

Anway, sh*te music needs something to attract listeners.

Gummy Panda

ah we're a tough ole bunch us men. We can take a double standard as long as it makes us look macho.

kowloon

See your point, it's tame enough though.

Does remind me of the other day: I was in a friends place and an ad came on where two women steal some fellows towel in a swimming pool.
The point was made that if it was two men stealing a womens towel to perv on her it would never make it on screen.

Gummy Panda

kowloon wrote: »

See your point, it's tame enough though.

Does remind me of the other day: I was in a friends place and an ad came on where two women steal some fellows towel in a swimming pool.
The point was made that if it was two men stealing a womens towel to perv on her it would never make it on screen.

I'd look at that as an excuse to do the windmill at them.

kowloon

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Anway, sh*te music needs something to attract listeners.

It's no bowl of special k to be sure.

kowloon

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I'd look at that as an excuse to do the windmill at them.

Hawt

tritium

Gotta agree with Dudess on this one, absolute double standard.

Unfortunately it will be years yet before theres a general acceptance that women can be abusive too and until then this kind of thing will be laughed at as moderately amusing while those who criticise it will be told to get a sense of humour.

Much like we used as a society to pretend it didn't happen to women

Dudess

kowloon wrote: »

It's no bowl of special k to be sure.

/kisses box of Special K: "Mmmmmwah!"

Rb

I get what you mean Dudess and fully agree.

Going back to a previous example I've used, in 40 Days and 40 Nights on the last day the guy ties himself up to his bed to stop himself whacking off and ruining it so he could splodge the whole lot on his new bird when she came over later. However, the ex girlfriend finds the door open and goes and rides him while he's asleep.

Reverse the roles there and there would be f*cking outrage if a movie had a scene where a girl was raped in her sleep by her ex boyfriend.

I think though, that men are just easier going/more laid back about these type of things. I mean no mans going to protest that video because the majority of us will see it for what it is, a music video, whereas if the roles were reversed women would be looking for a different meaning, female oppression etc.

Gummy Panda

This thread reminds me of this

Collie D

Kind of see your point but I'm not bothered. As rb_ie said I see it as what it is, a music video. Didn't Madonna have a video where she had the crap kicked out of her? Think it was Die Another Day

Overheal

rb_ie wrote: »

I think though, that men are just easier going/more laid back about these type of things. I mean no mans going to protest that video because the majority of us will see it for what it is, a music video, whereas if the roles were reversed women would be looking for a different meaning, female oppression etc.

Yeah, some of us WANT to be raped. :rolleyes:*

Not that it doesnt happen and not that it isnt a serious issue for some.

But rb makes a good point - guys can see the difference

*Dudess, this is the only forum I have to put up with that boxy blue shít and I blame you for killing ol'blue :mad:

Dudess

Blame Ruu, he started it!

kowloon

Gummy Panda wrote: »

This thread reminds me of this

Nice

Voodu Child

Check out this video from the latest Winehouse type:

Winehouse is a horrible looking junkie. Yer one in the video isn't. I don't see the problem tbh

Sherifu

She could do with some singing lessons.

Doctor DooM

Usually I agree with you 100% on this stuff Dudess. However, "Winehouse like" means "commercial rubbish" to me, so I don't know if I will bother looking at it.

The thing with double standards is this. Yeah, as males, we tend to read less into this type of rubbish. However, it undermines alot of work equality groups etc strive for. True equality is the assumption that all are equal, not the assertion of ones superiority.


*gets off soapbox*

KrazeeEyezKilla

It's not that bad a song (at least by the standards of the charts) and the singers a lot better looking than Amy Winehouse (although that wouldn't be hard right now).

unreggd

its like a play on her lyrics mixed with some "revenge on the ex"

like, the water [blue waves]

hanging upside [worlds a better place upside down....]


The reversed version will never happen, cos guys dont dwell, they move on an ride some other birds :P

Doctor DooM

Christ. Just cos Whineyhouse made alot of money doesn't mean every female singer has to imitate her voice...

Would be interesting if someone deliberately made the opposite video, purely to court controversy.

Rb

SDooM wrote: »

Christ. Just cos Whineyhouse made alot of money doesn't mean every female singer has to imitate her voice...

Would be interesting if someone deliberately made the opposite video, purely to court controversy.

They're just training in the replacement as Winehouse will probably be dead by the end of 08.

Lirange

I agree. This is an intolerable outrage.

I'm going to threaten legal proceedings unless there's a video of Rachel Stevens being administered her spankings. Where is the justice?

Overheal

Dudess wrote: »

Blame Ruu, he started it!

oh ill get around to ruu :mad:

you can repent by adding an apology, repent and old blue-face to your signature

DarkJager

Its the same with all fcukin chart music these days. All they sing about is how bastardly their boyfriends are, they're too good for the boyfriend, they could dump the boyfriend and have another one in a click of the fingers etc etc. Now if it was a guy singing songs like that, you'd have every wannabe feminist denouncing it as "chauvinism", but it doesn't seem to work the other way around. Thank christ for good old rap anyway. To summarise a classic line:

"Bitches ain't sh1t but hoes and tricks"

SimpleSam06

Maybe they enjoyed it, in the s&m sense. Some men get off on that because it makes them feel powerless -> like infants -> innocent. You especially get it with people who have a lot of responsibility or power, and need a release valve.

Doctor DooM

Lirange wrote: »

I agree. This is an intolerable outrage.

I'm going to threaten legal proceedings unless there's a video of Rachel Stevens being administered her spankings. Where is the justice?

I would like to suscribe to your news letter. You, sir, are a hero.

citytillidie

I am with Dudess on this one.

If there was even a hint of that video with the woman all tied up it would be all over the news and banned from all music stations.

But thats just they way its going now, more and more advertisments having double standards, like some mentioned the man going into the sauna and the woman stealing his towel, or the one were the girls drop a fork on the floor to get the male waiter to bend over to pick it up.

Dudess

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Maybe they enjoyed it, in the s&m sense. Some men get off on that because it makes them feel powerless -> like infants -> innocent. You especially get it with people who have a lot of responsibility or power, and need a release valve.

That's what I speculated, but there's no evidence in the video to suggest it. If the vid was about women enjoying S&M the directors would be at great pains to explain this with plot devices etc.

Leeby

Dudess wrote: »

Check out this video from the latest Winehouse type:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO_TaTblcP8

A guy hung upside down and bound with a load of rope, a guy with a load of electrical cords wrapped round him, a guy who looks like he's had his face slapped around and the girl taunts him and pours an unidentified liquid on his face, a guy lying on the floor bound from shoulders to ankles in masking/duct tape, a guy in a cage etc, etc.

Now just imagine if the genders were reversed... "Imagine" being the operative word, because that video is never gonna be made.

And at the end she releases the hanging upside down guy so he lands on his head.

Maybe it's supposed to signify that those guys are into that sort of thing, or maybe they're all ex boyfriends who wronged her in some way and she's getting her revenge. There's no evidence to indicate either is the case. And even so, would it matter? Maybe the former would be a tad more acceptable, but even so, I still don't think such a video would be made with the genders swapped.

Think you're kind of making a mountain out of a molehill.

The "unidentified liquid" is clearly just water or something, she drinks out of it herself, it's hardly acid!!
And the guy getting dropped on his head we don't actually see.
So the video is her walking around singing while a few lads are tied up around her, not the worst thing in the world.
And no, if it was a man singing with women tied up around him I don't think it'd bother people too much either.
It's a music video, it's not real!

Earthhorse

What about that video where Take That are tied up and driven off the cliff? How come this never happened to the Spice Girls?

And how is it they're able to put a man on the moon but they can't make a good instant coffee? What gives?

Gummy Panda

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I'd look at that as an excuse to do the windmill at them.

:pac:

SDooM wrote: »

Would be interesting if someone deliberately made the opposite video, purely to court controversy.

Made this point before in a thread i started on reverse/positive discrimination but that fat yank director Michael Moore who did the bowling for columbine thing was in college and some group of 'chicks' started a "Feminism Club". They were forced to shut it down after Moore tried to set up a "Chauvinism Club" and was refused.

Jigsaw

Goddammit, it is time for men to reclaim our place in society and stop being emasculated. What happened to the time when you would get up in the morning and be greeted with the scent of the wife preparing some bacon & eggs and a nice cup of tea in the kitchen. You'd go down and eat it and then give her a nice husbandly peck on the cheek as she hands you your sandwiches and you go off to do some serious work. During the day she would do some baking in the morning, darn a few socks and then clean the house. She would then have the inexplicable ability to have the dinner ready just as you arrived home. You would arrive home and she would be teeming the spuds. Your wife would ask you about your day and you would indulge in some cordial conversation, then you would go into the living room and watch the news and after that maybe go out for a quick round of golf or else to the pub to meet with your friends. You would then arrive home and have some sex with your wife and you would decide when the light would go out.

Things were ordered then. People knew what their role was back then. Lives may have been simpler but they were happier.

I mean, woman firefighters ffs............

RedXIV

Of course there's double standards, the fight for equality has been intense and passionate for all women, but you'll find most guys don't give a damn. Mainly coz it's not true. there isn't equality between the sex's because (to generalise), we're physically stronger and you're alot more sensitive.

The best example i can see of this "equality" going wrong is the gardai. Nothing against female guards before anyone calls me sexist but you'll have to agree, when every guard in the country was over 6ft and built like a tank, they had a lot more respect. In a night club at home, there was a proper riot outside a nightclub and what showed up? two female guards. if a few lads hadn't gone out of their way to get them out, they would have been killed in the middle of that. I'm all for equal rights but you can't compare every aspect of the two genders and expect them to be equal at all times

Doctor DooM

Dudess wrote: »

That's what I speculated, but there's no evidence in the video to suggest it. If the vid was about women enjoying S&M the directors would be at great pains to explain this with plot devices etc.

TBH I think you are crediting the video's creators a little too much with thinking they were attempting a piece examining the intricacies of a BDSM relationship.

StormWarrior

I think it's ok for women to do things to men that aren't ok the other way round. Bet they love it.:pac:

marcsignal

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Nothing sweet about her? Is that not the point of the video?

Anway, sh*te music needs something to attract listeners.

+1

Overheal wrote: »

Those videos happen all the time. its called LA [C]Rap.

You forgot the silent 'C'

kowloon

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Maybe they enjoyed it, in the s&m sense. Some men get off on that because it makes them feel powerless -> like infants -> innocent. You especially get it with people who have a lot of responsibility or power, and need a release valve.

I hope you're not trying to charm me again 'cause it ain't workin'.



Maybe a little.

pretty*monster

Women are commonly depicted in S&M porn in similar poses to the ones the men are shown in in the video. How's it a double standard?

kowloon

pretty*monster wrote: »

Women are commonly depicted in S&M porn in similar poses to the ones the men are shown in in the video. How's it a double standard?

The exact same video with roles reversed would be controversial, would have several groups up in arms and would probably not make it onto daytime tv.

Doctor DooM

pretty*monster wrote: »

Women are commonly depicted in S&M porn in similar poses to the ones the men are shown in in the video. How's it a double standard?

Because an over 18's porno is not the same thing as a pop video which is freely accessible to children?

Rb

RedXIV wrote: »

Of course there's double standards, the fight for equality has been intense and passionate for all women, but you'll find most guys don't give a damn. Mainly coz it's not true. there isn't equality between the sex's because (to generalise), we're physically stronger and you're alot more sensitive.

The best example i can see of this "equality" going wrong is the gardai. Nothing against female guards before anyone calls me sexist but you'll have to agree, when every guard in the country was over 6ft and built like a tank, they had a lot more respect. In a night club at home, there was a proper riot outside a nightclub and what showed up? two female guards. if a few lads hadn't gone out of their way to get them out, they would have been killed in the middle of that. I'm all for equal rights but you can't compare every aspect of the two genders and expect them to be equal at all times

I agree.

slingshotninja.

pretty*monster wrote: »

Women are commonly depicted in S&M porn in similar poses to the ones the men are shown in in the video. How's it a double standard?

. Yeah that's in sicko S&M porn for weirdos not in the main stream pop culture .
Come on there's snuff movies too . Doubt it would be allowed in a music video though

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

rb_ie wrote: »

I agree.

i disagree, a well trained woman will kick the **** out of an untrained man. Police should know better how to defend themselves, or be given weapons.