Deadlifting problem.

R__J

After I complete a set of deadlifts 4X8 at 70kgs with fine technique (I am quite new to deadlifiting, have been doing it for about 3 weeks now) , I find that I get quite a sore lower back and find that I am unable to do any sort of squating/lifting etc as it feels like my lower back is bout to give way. It goes away about half an hour later. Is this normal? Should I be wearing a support belt? any feedback appreciated.

Hanley

Don't ever try squatting after deadlifting in the first instance....

Sounds like your back is just "pumped". It's normal enough with high rep sets, which is one of the reason I don't do them. I find it impossible to perform well during the rest of my workout cos it's too uncomfortable.

Try 3x6, 5x5 or 8x3 instead.

Nordwind

Apologies for the hijack...I currently perform deadlifts only as I've no squat rack at home - I know I'm missing out on a lot here but is there anything I can do to compensate for this exclusion? Or is the deadlift sufficient?

Thanks.

Imposter

Hanley wrote: »

Don't ever try squatting after deadlifting in the first instance....

Why not?
I was under the impression you should do the heavier lifts first!
Is squatting first and then deadlifting ok?

Hanley

Imposter wrote: »

Why not?
I was under the impression you should do the heavier lifts first!
Is squatting and then deadlifting ok?

Because if you deadlift heavy and push it hard you should be fcuked afterwards... You shouldn't even want to think about squatting (but that's another discussion!!!)

Basically think how draining a deadlift is on your body. It fatigues the hell out of everything, especially the lower back, one of the areas most prone to injury in most trainees. I don't think it's a great idea to attempt to follow it up with ANOTHER incredibly demanding exercise, both mentally and phyiscally, that hits pretty much all the same muscles.

I personally do stiff leg deads after squats sometimes, but I tend to use a hell of a lot less weight than I would on normal deadlifts with them!

aye

Imposter wrote: »

Why not?
I was under the impression you should do the heavier lifts first!
Is squatting first and then deadlifting ok?

deadlifting tires your core and lower back muscles greatly.
squatting decent weight requires these muscles to be strong for correct push technique.
squatting after deadlifting can easily lead to injury.

Hanley got there first

R__J

Cheers for the replys. I usually train 5/6 days a week with rest day on a sunday. I do lower body one day and rotate to upper body the next. I usually do deadlifts as part of my lower body workout along with with squats. Would a good solution be, to start doing deadlifts as part of my upperbody workout?

Al_Fernz

R J whats your training routine like currently?

If you're thinking of doing upper/lower splits and deadlifting/squatting on alternate days 5/6 days a week I would forget it. It's more than likely that you would burn your CNS out, make little/no progress and play Russian Roulette with your body regarding injury.

Maybe coming up with a split that incorporates the two exercises once a week in a split would be more beneficial? You can include the deadlift on your back day and squats on your leg day. Also have at least a day in between doing the two.

Imposter

Hmm... ok.. just a summary of my thoughts from what i've read on here over the last few years - obviously if i'm wrong jump in (as if you won't )

- For beginners full body workouts are a good idea
- The big 3 lifts are pretty much all you need as a beginner (deadlift, squat, bench)
- combine the 2 and ....
- but wait..... deadlifting and squats on the same day = bad!!

Is it that R_J is a step past beginner and needs a split program?
If so what sort of weights are we are we talking where one should make the transition to squats and DLs on seperate days?

tribulus

Full body workouts are fine but there's not necessarily anything wrong with splits either - it just depends on how you well split them! An added advantage of full body stuff for beginners is that nothing gets left out (in theory).

It's just what Hanley said really, doing the two on the same day is very draining, even if you ease back on the second one.

That's not to say it can't be done

This guy does alright from squatting and deadlifting on the same day http://youtube.com/watch?v=PNvONtw-94g

But he has years of training behind him.

JMCD

Sorry for jumpion this thread but didnt seem to make sense starting a new one.

Whats peoples general view on deadlifts with a smith machine?

Thanks

BossArky

I would split your routine up as follows. The bold ones are the heavy stuff I would concentrate on as the focal point of the session.

Day 1: e.g. Monday
Squat
Deadlift (stiff leg) ... half the weight of standard deadlift
Shoulder Press (dumbbell)
+ other lighter stuff

Day 2:
Bike

Day 3: e.g Wednesday
Bench Press ... a day off between this and the shoulder press should be ok
Bent Over Row (oly bar)
One Arm Row
+ other lighter stuff

Day4:
Run

Day 5: e.g. Friday
Deadlift (standard)
Pull Ups
+ other lighter stuff

Day 6/7: e.g. Saturday/Sunday
Rest or Run

Hanley

JMCD wrote: »

Sorry for jumpion this thread but didnt seem to make sense starting a new one.

Whats peoples general view on deadlifts with a smith machine?

Thanks

Who in the what now??? :eek:

(not good!)

R__J

Ive been doing weights for about 3 years so im relatively experienced. My current routine is a rugby oriented and is the same one that leinster use, so I think it's ok, basically it's not exactly as I explained peviously and incorporates rowing, speed work, plyos etc. but the main area is that the week starts with a total body workout and then it's a split workout for the rest of it. I think I'll try take hanley's advice and change around the amount of reps Im doing on the deadlifts. Cheers for the replys lads.

Hanley

R__J wrote: »

Ive been doing weights for about 3 years so im relatively experienced. My current routine is a rugby oriented and is the same one that leinster use, so I think it's ok, basically it's not exactly as I explained peviously and incorporates rowing, speed work, plyos etc. but the main area is that the week starts with a total body workout and then it's a split workout for the rest of it. I think I'll try take hanley's advice and change around the amount of reps Im doing on the deadlifts. Cheers for the replys lads.

My suggestion was not to squat after deadlifting.... I just don't want our wires crossed incase something bad happens down the road and it looks like my fault.

Does every single Leinster play have the same program? Seems a bit odd if they did. So to that end you might be following an unsuitable one. Did you get it off one of their coaches? The mere fact that Leinster players are using it is a sign that it should only be used by advanced guys. I know you say you're experienced, but pulling 70kg 3x8 doesn't indicate that. Hell my 60kg girlfriend who's training less than a year can do it!!

And don't forget, these guys probably have coaches monitoring everything they do in the weight room so if anything goes wrong then there's instant feedback. I'm guessing you don't have that luxury?

If you want to get to the level these guys are at, don't do what they're doing now. Do what they did to get there.

Go back and read that last tip. It's one of the most important ones you'll get.

R__J

Yea I took that on board just forgot to mention it, I'll make sure not to squat and lift on the same day.The programme was designed by the leinster weights instructor and I assume it's a slightly less advanced one than the leinster guys are doing,but very similar as it was designed for an AIL league team.I also just started deadlifting hence the small amount of weight. What sort of weight should I be aiming to deadlift if I weigh 95kg's? Also we have a weights coach monitoring certain sessions so Im sure if there is a technique issue he will sort it out.(unfortunately he's been away for 2 weeks which is why I'm on here annoying everone) lol.

Al_Fernz

R__J wrote: »

What sort of weight should I be aiming to deadlift if I weigh 95kg's?

A weight that lets you do the desired amount of reps with good form.

Lifting with good form should be your priority when starting to DL. The weight will fly up when you have your form down right.

From what I've seen of strength standard tables x2 of bodyweight should be the average goal to shoot for.

Mikel

Hanley wrote: »

If you want to get to the level these guys are at, don't do what they're doing now. Do what they did to get there.

Should sticky that