Poor standard accommodation

Trinity

I have been renting a house in north dublin city for almost a year now and lease is almost up. I have very decent landlords (couple) however they are a very keen business couple.

Anyway my rent is 1400 pm which i guess is maybe average? Its a nice house in a nice estate but its not in very good condition. I have been checking out Daft and the property seems to have come down. There are 2/3 beds furnished to a very high standard for less.

Ours has the original kitchen which is cheap laminate 15 yrs old some presses have no handles. Some of the plug sockets do not work. The ensuite shower does not work, there is a big crack in the sink in the ensuite held with selotape adn there is a big crack in the glass panel in the front hall door which they have been saying they will mend since July. (also held with selotape)

The doors upstairs have holes in them from someone kicking them by the looks of it and the doors downstairs do not stay closed despite they have handles. They replaced the carpet in the living room but we are replacing the carpet and lino in the hall and kitchen respectively. I also bought wallpaper paint and a border for the living room, got new curtains and bits and bobs. I also had to replace the fridge and kithen table as neither were fit for human beings. The cooker is also probably the original 15 year old one and doesnt cook very well!! Theres more than that but list too long.

Sorry for the long post but basically I feel we are paying too much rent for this house. If it was done up nicely i would be glad to pay it. To be honest we dont have a pot to piss in and the rent was a week late once so all this we are doing to the house is through loans and more loans ans one or 2 items from friends/family!! I'm too shy to talk to the landlady as i guess she will probably say she will get 1400 from someone else.

I personally dont mind moving but my son has just started his new school in Oct and does not want to move again (it will be his 4th move and he is 7). I also have a 6 month old baby so its not as easy to move. What are the chances of a landlord decreasing the rent? Or even doing up the property? SHe was obliging when the washing machine broke and replaced it immediately.

I'm pretty unhappy about the whole thing and would rather move than confront her.

I know you might think why did you move in in the first place but i was 7 months pregnant and sleeping on a couch for a month as i could not find a place so i was just delighted to get it and sleep in a bed!

Thanks for reading if you got this far!!!

Afuera

As a tenant you are allowed to ask for a rent review every 12 months. The legislation states that the rent can't be set above market rate so in theory that should allow you to get a rent reduction, however you will probably have to stand up and confront the landlord to make sure it actually happens. Since you say you are not looking for any confrontation, moving out may be the easier route (although I know it's not that easy, especially with a young family). There is a lot of choice out there at the moment for renters which is somewhat of a silver lining should you decide to rent elsewhere.

In any case, if you want to force the rent down, here is what you would need to do:

Write a letter to the landlord/agent requesting that the rent be set at the market rate of X (you'll need to do a bit of research to figure out what similar properties in the same area are renting for). Mention that this low market value is largely due to the general condition of the property. Also mention that if they continue to charge above the market rate the case will be taken to the PRTB. Keep a copy of the letter for your records and send the original as registered post to the landlord.

There are 3 outcomes if you send the letter.
1) The landlord is just happy to have a tenant so they agree to lower the rent (or possibly try to negotiate it somewhat lower but maybe not as low as you suggest).
2) The landlord still wants to get the same amount of rent, but conceedes that they will need to do it up to command the same value.
3) They refuse to change the rent or enter any kind of dialogue on it.

Options 1 and 2 are a direct win for you. Option 3 would mean you would have to take it to the PRTB, who do have the authority to force the rent down. That could be a long drawn out affair, but would only cost you EUR 25 to lodge the complaint with them.

There's no point in paying over the odds for rent, so I'd suggest sending the letter and seeing what happens. If it looks like the landlord is going to be a lot of hassle after that then you can weigh up how you feel about following it up with the PRTB or look into sourcing another property to rent. If you move out the landlord will probably have a hard time getting someone else in immediately, so you are in a pretty good position to bargain here (provided you are willing to take the step of moving out/going to PRTB if needed).

Best of luck, whichever way you decide to handle it.

jdivision

I think it'd be much easier to just ask the landlord to do up the place. Point out it needs it.

promethius

trinity your landlords don't seem decent at all if they're providing sub standard accomodation that you say isn't fit for humans. I don't see the point of you spending money (loans) on a property that isn't yours, if it's that bad you need to move even though i know how difficult that would be it makes sense in the long term. Sounds like your having a rough time of it you will get through it and have the joy of a baby coming soon so i wish you all the best.

Trinity

Thanks for the replies and great advice. I think I should grow a pair and just say it out straight to her.

I cant see her doing much to the place as it needs to be completely revamped, new kitchen, new plumbing, new bathroom, rewiring, heating etc.

It is a nice house and spacious and has a lot of potential but its been rented out from day one 15 or 16 years with no maintenance and thats clearly taken its toll on it.

The_Conductor

Any maintenance and/or refurbishments are tax deductable for the landlords (albeit on a flatline basis over a number of years) so there really is no reason for the place to be allowed to run down in the way you have described.

Rents have also fallen quite a bit (particularly in areas such as the North Inner City- and North and West county areas) so I would suggest that you make an agenda for when you sit down with your landlords and insist on going through the agenda item by item.

If you have been a good tenant and are prepared to stay there medium/longterm- if its maintained properly- go for it. It may not be worth your while going to a lot of trouble though- if you know that you'd rather just move.

the_syco

Hope you gave her a copy of the reciepts for the stuff you bought (fridge + kitchen table), or she's getting a free ride from you, esp with you getting all this new stuff.

Me, I'd plan on moving to a nearby location. It sounds like the landlord is letting the place hit rock bottom. Ask if she will fix all the sh|te BEFORE your lease runs out, or you move. No use staying, and putting your money into a house you don't own, when you could be living in a decent house, and spending your money on something else.

Trinity

I think i have been a good tenant in all my homes, i have good references from all previous landlords and have always kept the places in good condition.

Anything i have done to the house has been to improve it and make it a nicer place for my kids but i guess the likes of the wallpaper was not necessary as there was wallpaper there already, ****e as it was.

One thing going against me is i have a small dog and found it quite difficult to find a landlord to take him. This lady didnt mind a bit and now i know why!

Only 'damage' i have done so far is when i washed the covers of the sofa they frayed at the seams, purely accidental and i have told her about this and want to replace or fix it so yeah i think i am a good tenant!

I have decided to talk to her, possibly Monday, wish me luck!!!

Trinity

Quick update on this one.

I told the landlady last month i was moving out. I never got to discuss much with her as she is always busy and only communicates mostly by text.

She surpised me by saying would i stay if she put the rent down to 1300.

I said ok but i would like to talk to her about a few things need doing.

She called out to the house with about 45 mins notice the following week to pick up some chairs. I didnt mind anyway as we had spent 5 hours the previous day doing a good clean up. I brought her upstairs and showed her the leaking taps in the bath, i showed her the broken sink in the ensuite, few other bits and peices. I was mortified when i realised my OH hadnt cleaned the toilet as i had said i would clean them, he said he would and somewhere along the line it wasnt done after my 8 year old had paid a visit. She said it to me that i should keep it clean and i didnt mind this as i would have said the same myself.

She also said by all rights she should have had the place painted and freshened up for us before we moved in. We moved in the same day the previous tenants had moved out.

Skip forward 2 weeks i text her and asked had she any word from plumber as kitchen ceiling was leaking due to leaky taps and shower upstairs. She text me his number and i called him.

He came out yesterday, the place was a bit of a mess untidy wise as i had a major hangover and hadnt got round to my cleaning however i did clean the bathrooms before he came.

Landlady rang me an hour later to tell me he had to replace this and that and new sink etc. Then she said she was disappointed cos the house was filthy andi needed to give it a good clean. I asked her was she talking about the bathrooms or whole house she said whole house. She said she would be up in a couple of weeks to check it and it better be nice and clean. I was gutted. SHe also said she knows i am depressed but more or less thats no excuse WTF?

All i have ever done is try to improve the house. I got wooden floors in the hall, in my first post i outlined other things i had done.

I rang my dad and told him and he said just move out she is a cheeky so and so the house is in better condition now than when we moved in. I had a good look around and am trying to see where it is filthy. Ok so i cleaned the skirting boards and walls and around the taps there was some grime or mould or something due to the leak, i tried to get it off but cant get it all.

I will post some photos later of some of the conditions we have been living in the last year. I am going to clean it from top to bottom and move out. It sounded like she was annoyed that the plumber said he needed to do this and that, i know she had told me to leave the cracked sink it was fine, he said no it needs replacing, but this is hardly my fault?

The house is in bits and if she wants to blame it on my cleaning then fair enough but no amount of cleaning is going to change the fact that she needs to spend money on this house to get it up to standard.

Meathlass

Tend to agree with your dad on this one - your landlady just couldn't be bothered. Your home isn't supposed to look like a showhouse and it sounds like it's kept in a perfectly clean condition. TBH you're your own worst enemy, you should have moved out long ago if she didn't meet your conditions. Taps leaking, oven not working properly, ensuite shower not working and did I read right that at your own expense you put down wooden floors in the hall?

Give her a months notice and move out but be prepared to fight for your deposit back. Take pictures of everything now, all the broken fixtures and fittings and write a letter outlining all your complaints so there's a paper trail. Get onto Treshold for more advice.

Trinity

Meathlass wrote: »

Tend to agree with your dad on this one - your landlady just couldn't be bothered. Your home isn't supposed to look like a showhouse and it sounds like it's kept in a perfectly clean condition. TBH you're your own worst enemy, you should have moved out long ago if she didn't meet your conditions. Taps leaking, oven not working properly, ensuite shower not working and did I read right that at your own expense you put down wooden floors in the hall?

Give her a months notice and move out but be prepared to fight for your deposit back. Take pictures of everything now, all the broken fixtures and fittings and write a letter outlining all your complaints so there's a paper trail. Get onto Treshold for more advice.

Yes you're right I am too soft, I dont like to bother people.

At my own expense

I got wooden floors in the hall,
got a wasps nest removed from the back garden when we first moved in
Replaced the fridge (with a second hand one)
Replaced the kitchen table with a breakfast bar
Got a tumble dryer
Bought wallpaper, paint for the living room - its badly done but cleaner none the less
Replaced the living room curtains
Bought a rug for the living room
Contributed 50 euro to get the skip worth of rubbish from the back garden that was there when we moved in
COntributed towards the lino in the living room, think it was also 50 euro
Got contact for the coffee table as it was grimy and sticky and dirt wouldnt come off and i couldnt afford a new one
Replaced lino in kitchen costing over 200, its actually coming this week

I'm not gonna lie, the place is not perfect, I have 2 kids. But filthy is an overstatement, ok so i am not on my hands and knees cleaning skirtings every other week but they are done occasionally.

She said she would be depressed looking at the dirt as well, i found that very hurtful.

Did a Few more bits and peices

The_Conductor

Trinity1- just curious- why did you go to all that trouble with her house? She seems to be totally unreasonable, but you have put a lot of time and effort into a house that isn't your own?

Trinity

smccarrick wrote: »

Trinity1- just curious- why did you go to all that trouble with her house? She seems to be totally unreasonable, but you have put a lot of time and effort into a house that isn't your own?

The only answer i can give you is that i wanted it nice for myself and my kids. I have no hope of getting a mortgage just yet nor a council place so i planned on being here a while.

I dont like to bother people or be demanding so i tried not to ask too much of them (landlords) particularly when it was regarding the decor as such.

I was grateful that she was accomodating accepting pets and kids etc, i had been sleeping on a couch for a month and was 7 months pregnant when i moved in, i was desperate tbh.And i've tried to treat it as my own house, i guess it does need a good going over but i couldnt sleep last night for thinking about what she said.

The_Conductor

Sorry to about that- I suppose she found the whole situation convenient......
I would suggest ringing threshold to find out what your options are- it does sound as though she is lining you up to forfeit your deposit to be honest......

Meathlass

Trinity1 wrote: »

Yes you're right I am too soft, I dont like to bother people.

At my own expense

I got wooden floors in the hall,
got a wasps nest removed from the back garden when we first moved in
Replaced the fridge (with a second hand one)
Replaced the kitchen table with a breakfast bar
Got a tumble dryer
Bought wallpaper, paint for the living room - its badly done but cleaner none the less
Replaced the living room curtains
Bought a rug for the living room
Contributed 50 euro to get the skip worth of rubbish from the back garden that was there when we moved in
COntributed towards the lino in the living room, think it was also 50 euro
Got contact for the coffee table as it was grimy and sticky and dirt wouldnt come off and i couldnt afford a new one
Replaced lino in kitchen costing over 200, its actually coming this week

I'm not gonna lie, the place is not perfect, I have 2 kids. But filthy is an overstatement, ok so i am not on my hands and knees cleaning skirtings every other week but they are done occasionally.

She said she would be depressed looking at the dirt as well, i found that very hurtful.

Did a Few more bits and peices

Oh my god, I can't believe you bought all that stuff. Please move out and remember to take everything with you - ok lino not practible but tumble dryer, curtains, rug etc. This woman is the type who gives landlords a bad name but you as a complicent tenant must share some of the blame. When I move out of a house I take everything I've bought for it - teatowels, tablecloths, washing up liquid etc. I leave the house in exactly the same condition as I've found it. You've increased the value of her house by making all these improvements and she's complaining about preceived dirt which is really just the poor standard of fixtures and fittings.

Trinity

Re: the deposit - i personally thought she was up to something, however she made it clear 2 weeks ago she didnt want me to move out as i had put so much work into the house and even put the rent down. My main concern would be anything dangerous i have a 9 month old running around in the walker and please note the rusty nails sticking out of the kitchen presses, which in fact we said we would fix ourselves rather then bother them about it.

I dont want the house to be identified so here are just a couple of pics

Meathlass

Trinity1 wrote: »

Re: the deposit - i personally thought she was up to something, however she made it clear 2 weeks ago she didnt want me to move out as i had put so much work into the house and even put the rent down. My main concern would be anything dangerous i have a 9 month old running around in the walker and please note the rusty nails sticking out of the kitchen presses, which in fact we said we would fix ourselves rather then bother them about it.

I dont want the house to be identified so here are just a couple of pics

Trinity, from those pictures, that house isn't liveable in, that window in the bedroom looks disgusting. No amount of cleaning could fix those problems. She doesn't want you to move out as she knows she'd have to spend thousands to repair the house and it suits her having you there fixing everything for her. Go and look at a few properties and you'll see what a nice standard of living you could have for the same price. I don't know where you live but 1300 should get you a fairly decent 3 bed if that's what you're after.

Trinity

Thanks for the replies.

I am going to start looking today. ALthough i agreed to stay on, i havent actually signed anything so i hope i will be ok.

A point of note is the light all blew once, the electricity or wiring always seemed faulty to me. Anyway she got a guy to come out as the light socket that hangs from the ceiling was falling down. The guy fixed it, said they all needed to be done as they were disintegrating and that he would call her and tell her this. He never came back and it was months ago so i assume she told him no he is not to do it.

The hurtful thing is, when she was saying the house was filthy she kept going on about my baby, saying for his sake clean it etc - but look at the place, rusty nails, broken glass etc - i am sure she is not that worried about my kids if she wouldnt pay the electrician the few bob to make the electricity safe etc.

Meathlass

Sounds like the place is actually dangerous then if that is the case with the electricity. There is probably some Body you can report her to. For the sake of your kids move out.

Sir Oxman

Trinity, I know it is stressful thinking of moving yet again, but as others here have said that landlady is taking you and your family for a ride. €1400 for that house is a disgrace - in no way am I having a go at you (!), you've outlined what you've done way and above the call of duty of any tenant.

Priority - give your notice and ensure you note evrything that is wrong with the place and your expenditure on it if this modern day Scrooge tries to keep her grubby paws on your deposit.

Best of luck.

Trinity

gambiaman wrote: »

Trinity, I know it is stressful thinking of moving yet again, but as others here have said that landlady is taking you and your family for a ride. €1400 for that house is a disgrace - in no way am I having a go at you (!), you've outlined what you've done way and above the call of duty of any tenant.

Priority - give your notice and ensure you note evrything that is wrong with the place and your expenditure on it if this modern day Scrooge tries to keep her grubby paws on your deposit.

Best of luck.

Thank you.

I have called threshold and explained the whole thing. She told me to give my notice and move out, listing all the problems etc. SHe said it sounds like she has only now noticed the state of the place and its easy to blame me when the fact is it wasnt properly maintained and thats why its the way it is. SHe also mentioned she doesnt want me to leave as she knows she will have to spend thousands on it before anyone would move in.

Which is what you guys said

She also said if she pulls any crap regarding the deposit to call her back.

I feel this is going to be a battle, she is going to blame me for everything and i was silly to move in without a snag list as such and communicating by text.

A lesson learned and mistake never ever to be repeated by me

The_Conductor

Trinity1- feel free to post back here too, if you need any advice.

S.

jackal

Good on you for getting this sorted. The landlady has completely taken advantage of your non-confrontational personality and is playing on it with her sly comments. She knows damn well that nobody will move in with the house in the state that it is not keen to spend the money.

For what its worth, I am in a situation very similar myself. Substandard accommodation and a recent rent increase has pushed it up to near market price. So a letter, pointing this out went in with the rent a week ago, and am awaiting the response.