Vatican says aliens could exist

Ekancone

BBC NEWS
Vatican says aliens could exist
By David Willey
BBC News, Rome

The Pope's chief astronomer says that life on Mars cannot be ruled out.

Writing in the Vatican newspaper, the astronomer, Father Gabriel Funes, said intelligent beings created by God could exist in outer space.

Father Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory near Rome, is a respected scientist who collaborates with universities around the world.

The search for forms of extraterrestrial life, he says, does not contradict belief in God.

The official Vatican newspaper headlines his article 'Aliens Are My Brother'.

'Free from sin'

Just as there are multiple forms of life on earth, so there could exist intelligent beings in outer space created by God. And some aliens could even be free from original sin, he speculates.

Asked about the Catholic Church's condemnation four centuries ago of the Italian astronomer and physicist, Galileo, Father Funes diplomatically says mistakes were made, but it is time to turn the page and look towards the future.

Science and religion need each other, and many astronomers believe in God, he assures readers.

To strengthen its scientific credentials, the Vatican is organising a conference next year to mark the 200th anniversary of the birth of the author of the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7399661.stm

Published: 2008/05/13 22:08:27 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

Thoughts?

PDN

Nanoo Nanoo?

Fanny Cradock

Don't know about Mars. But sure, why not!

Nerin

its a legitimate topic. would be interesting to see peoples honest and serious opinions.
and the funny ones too of course

PDN

It's a long time since I read it, but I seem to remember CS Lewis exploring this in his science fiction novel Out of the Silent Planet.

The novel features a guy from earth who travels to another world where a couple created in innocence are confronted with the temptation to commit evil (by another human from earth). Once they successfully withstood the temptation then they were left in peace.

Nerin

PDN wrote: »

It's a long time since I read it, but I seem to remember CS Lewis exploring this in his science fiction novel Out of the Silent Planet.

The novel features a guy from earth who travels to another world where a couple created in innocence are confronted with the temptation to commit evil (by another human from earth). Once they successfully withstood the temptation then they were left in peace.

ah, a human being satan
ironing, delicious, etc.

would people have a problem with aliens fitting into their religious beliefs?

axer

daithifleming wrote: »

Thoughts?

Jesus didnt die on the cross - he just phoned home!

Pompey Magnus

daithifleming wrote: »

Thoughts?

Vatican scientists discussing whether aliens are free from original sin = The funniest thing I have read in ages.

Ekancone

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Vatican scientists discussing whether aliens are free from original sin = The funniest thing I have read in ages.

That part actually made me laugh out loud. Oh, what will they come up with next?

Dave!

I find it gas that the vatican has a "chief astronomer"! :eek: They looking out for god? lol

Seriously though -- how does this fit in with yer beliefs?

* Does it fit in with the idea that humans are in some way special, have souls, etc.? I suppose research (lol) would have to be carried out to verify whether or not the extraterrestrials have souls... But if it emerges that they're intelligent life capable of complex thought, then you'd have to wonder why Jesus wasn't a Martian (can't stop sniggering at this idea!)

* Why did Jesus appear on Earth rather than Mars?

* Are Martians going to hell?

etc

(Of course, nothing has been found really, but if it were...)

PDN

DaveMcG wrote: »

I find it gas that the vatican has a "chief astronomer"! :eek: They looking out for god? lol

The history of astronomy is intertwined with the Church. Gregory of Tours, the venerable Bede, Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa, and Copernicus.

Also the Jesuits used their knowledge of astronomy to gain influence in the Chinese Imperial court.

Dave!

Of course it is, the entire history of Europe is intertwined with the Church!

Doesn't make it less funny though

Doctor DooM

PDN wrote: »

The history of astronomy is intertwined with the Church. Gregory of Tours, the venerable Bede, Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa, and Copernicus.

Also the Jesuits used their knowledge of astronomy to gain influence in the Chinese Imperial court.

Galilleo


*cough*

robindch

daithifleming wrote: »

El BBC wrote:

Vatican says aliens could exist

Thoughts?

Given that the Vatican is in contact with their omniscient god on a daily basis, I'd have thought that the pope could have offered something a bit more concrete than "could".

marco_polo

Is it a reasonable defence for any unbaptised aliens to claim they weren't even in the same galaxy as the Garden of Eden when trying to get past St Peter

Nerin

marco_polo wrote: »

Is it a reasonable defence for any unbaptised aliens to claim they weren't even in the same galaxy as the Garden of Eden when trying to get past St Peter

i'd say so.
but id be a very lenient saint :cool:

Call Me Jimmy

I think it's highly probable that life exists on another planet in all the universe and I also think - if we were to find life - why the **** god didnt take credit for making them in the bible, why he didn't even mention outside earth, he seems to have had all the knowledge of the people at the time... funny that.

Nerin

without getting into a debate about how credible any religious text is historically or scientifically=

there are religious people who tried to fit in alien life into their religious belief. ufo researchers have theorised(to the anger/annoyance of religious people) that angels, god,fire in the sky etc could be alien phenomena.

another can of worms that opens is the possibilities alien life has for debunking many of our religious views.

if we did meet aliens, and they claimed (or indeed had "proof") that allah,god,ra whoever, were in fact alien scientists who had brought about humanity through experiments, that would cause uproar. imagine the reprecussions of such an event.
not only would many religions be proved wrong, but also power and credibility would be taken away from religious organisations.

it all sounds consiracy like, and these views arent necessarily my own, but it is an interesting angle to take.

^this of course brings us back to debating the reliability of religious texts.:o

PDN

SDooM wrote: »

Galilleo


*cough*

I deliberately omitted Galileo since I was simply listing some of the senior clergy who had been key figures in the development of astronomy. Galileo, while a devout Christian believer, was not a bishop or cardinal.

Much of the early development of astronomy involved using the stars to calculate data for religious observances. Gregory, Bishop of Tours, used astronomy to calculate the evening time of prayer for monks (clocks being rare and inaccurate in the Sixth Century). Bede used astronomy to calculate the date of Easter.

The Vatican Observatory (funded by the Papacy) is well respected by astronomers. I find it ironic that some non-Christian posters sneer at Christians for being irrational and anti-scientific, but then the fact that the Vatican is engaged in the advancement of scientific knowledge also attracts sneering.

Pompey Magnus

PDN wrote: »

I find it ironic that some non-Christian posters sneer at Christians for being irrational and anti-scientific, but then the fact that the Vatican is engaged in the advancement of scientific knowledge also attracts sneering.

I think it is the fact that the Vatican is trying to mix science with theology that is attracting the most sneering.

I mean it is bad enough that the Vatican still persist in preaching original sin to us humans when they don't even believe the sin happened in the first place, but to then question whether aliens are tarnished by this non-event is verging on the insane.

Doctor DooM

PDN wrote: »

I deliberately omitted Galileo since I was simply listing some of the senior clergy who had been key figures in the development of astronomy. Galileo, while a devout Christian believer, was not a bishop or cardinal.

Much of the early development of astronomy involved using the stars to calculate data for religious observances. Gregory, Bishop of Tours, used astronomy to calculate the evening time of prayer for monks (clocks being rare and inaccurate in the Sixth Century). Bede used astronomy to calculate the date of Easter.

The Vatican Observatory (funded by the Papacy) is well respected by astronomers. I find it ironic that some non-Christian posters sneer at Christians for being irrational and anti-scientific, but then the fact that the Vatican is engaged in the advancement of scientific knowledge also attracts sneering.

They were also engaged in the retardation of science when it suited them, thus the sneering. A bit like Bill Gates retarding the growth of computers, only with less of a god complex.

all the stars

Weird...

So next the vatican will send troops to Mars to repeat history and kill all the aliens for eating or zapping the bible.. and why are they free from original sin?

Something tells me the aliens would be laughing at us...

Nerin

all the stars wrote: »

Weird...

So next the vatican will send troops to Mars to repeat history and kill all the aliens for eating or zapping the bible.. and why are they free from original sin?

Something tells me the aliens would be laughing at us...

i think christians would see them being free from original sin as they arent human,and humans caused the fall of,wait for it, the human race.
its fun being logical with this kind of subject. hmmm.

Pompey Magnus

Nerin wrote: »

i think christians would see them being free from original sin as they arent human,and humans caused the fall of,wait for it, the human race.
its fun being logical with this kind of subject. hmmm.

But wait, presumably these life forms will be at least as advanced as humans and most likely far more advanced. What allowed humans to become advanced? We ate of the tree of knowledge and became like God. How could Alien intelligence be explained without them being tarnished with original sin as if they are more advanced than us then they would be even more like God than we are.

Their souls should be just as impure as ours, otherwise God has double standards. It really is fun trying to be logical with such an illogical subject.

Nerin

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

But wait, presumably these life forms will be at least as advanced as humans and most likely far more advanced. What allowed humans to become advanced? We ate of the tree of knowledge and became like God. How could Alien intelligence be explained without them being tarnished with original sin as if they are more advanced than us then they would be even more like God than we are.

Their souls should be just as impure as ours, otherwise God has double standards. It really is fun trying to be logical with such an illogical subject.

but if they are more advanced, that would mean they came about (evolved/were created, whatever) before us.

also, werent humans in the bible intelligent before the fruit? intelligent enough, at least. the fall(i personally) wouldnt see as the source of humans being an "intelligent sentient" species.

woah,im starting to sound like im christian arent i

all the stars

Nerin wrote: »

i think christians would see them being free from original sin as they arent human,and humans caused the fall of,wait for it, the human race.
its fun being logical with this kind of subject. hmmm.

hmmm.... now the fun part - have the christians not heard the alien abductions and testing on people?or making crop circles? That's got to be a sin ! All we did was eat an apple!

MrPudding

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

But wait, presumably these life forms will be at least as advanced as humans and most likely far more advanced. What allowed humans to become advanced? We ate of the tree of knowledge and became like God. How could Alien intelligence be explained without them being tarnished with original sin as if they are more advanced than us then they would be even more like God than we are.

Their souls should be just as impure as ours, otherwise God has double standards. It really is fun trying to be logical with such an illogical subject.

I'll handle this one. God is everywhere. That means he exerts his power everywhere within the universe. There is no reason not to think he may have created other life forms elsewhere in the universe. He simply has not told us about them. And why should he? He owns us and can do with us what he wishes. If he decides to keep us in the dark then who are we to question him? He is infinitely powerful, infinitely wise, if he has chosen not to tell us of his other creations then I am sure he has good reason.

MrP

Nerin

all the stars wrote: »

hmmm.... now the fun part - have the christians not heard the alien abductions and testing on people?or making crop circles? That's got to be a sin ! All we did was eat an apple!

but it was gods apple

anyway, if you look at it this way- do you consider it a sin, or christians anyway, consider it a sin to capture an animal and study it? nope,because we are "higher" up the scale of things. (pffft self important humans)
aliens,if more advance could be forgiven for experimenting and studying us.

all the stars

MrPudding wrote: »

I'll handle this one. God is everywhere. That means he exerts his power everywhere within the universe. There is no reason not to think he may have created other life forms elsewhere in the universe. He simply has not told us about them. And why should he? He owns us and can do with us what he wishes. If he decides to keep us in the dark then who are we to question him? He is infinitely powerful, infinitely wise, if he has chosen not to tell us of his other creations then I am sure he has good reason.

MrP

im going to spell this one out - C O P O U T

they were there before god for all we know - the aliens created 'God' and now they are really laughing at us!!

all the stars

Nerin wrote: »

but it was gods apple

anyway, if you look at it this way- do you consider it a sin, or christians anyway, consider it a sin to capture an animal and study it? nope,because we are "higher" up the scale of things. (pffft self important humans)
aliens,if more advance could be forgiven for experimenting and studying us.

well i am a vegetarian :cool: and i dont like animal testing! :cool: or human testing or alien testing!

I propose we picket the Aliens to make it know whether they wants us to make them christian or if they want to burn in our hell (cant send them to their hell, be weird coz its our 'god' they offend not theirs ) !

MrPudding

all the stars wrote: »

im going to spell this one out - C O P O U T

they were there before god for all we know - the aliens created 'God' and now they are really laughing at us!!

How could the aliens have been around before god?!? In there beginning there was God. That is it. There cannot have been aliens before god because god is the beginning of all things... have you not read the bible?

MrP

Nerin

MrPudding wrote: »

How could the aliens have been around before god?!? In there beginning there was God. That is it. There cannot have been aliens before god because god is the beginning of all things... have you not read the bible?

MrP

see,theres the problem,atheists/people of other faiths might not agree,hence im trying to come at everything from both sides.

all the stars

MrPudding wrote: »

How could the aliens have been around before god?!? In there beginning there was God. That is it. There cannot have been aliens before god because god is the beginning of all things... have you not read the bible?

MrP

i heard about that alright... i reackon the aliens are behind the whole thing! darn it they did a good job fooling us all, till the vatican got wise to their shannigans - now we have to call off religion! and christmas! :eek:

toiletduck

It is an interesting area (from a believers perspective), I mean do Christians think Jesus would have been sent to these Alien cultures etc?

PDN

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

But wait, presumably these life forms will be at least as advanced as humans and most likely far more advanced. What allowed humans to become advanced? We ate of the tree of knowledge and became like God. How could Alien intelligence be explained without them being tarnished with original sin as if they are more advanced than us then they would be even more like God than we are.

Their souls should be just as impure as ours, otherwise God has double standards. It really is fun trying to be logical with such an illogical subject.

According to Genesis, the tree of knowledge of good and evil opened the eyes of Adam and Eve to possibilities to commit evil. The Bible does not say that it gave the capability for technological advancement. The idea that eating from the tree would make humans like God was part of Satan's lie.

It is more fun trying to be logical if you take the time to read and understand what you are discussing.

PDN

all the stars wrote: »

i heard about that alright... i reackon the aliens are behind the whole thing! darn it they did a good job fooling us all, till the vatican got wise to their shannigans - now we have to call off religion! and christmas! :eek:

Let's have less of the trolling in this thread please. If you want to discuss Christian belief then do so. Otherwise troll elsewhere.

AtomicHorror

toiletduck wrote: »

It is an interesting area (from a believers perspective), I mean do Christians think Jesus would have been sent to these Alien cultures etc?

If it emerges that no such messiah appears in their culture and no religion resembles Christianity, many Christians will take it upon themselves to spread the word of God to the aliens. That may turn out to be rather impractical.

all the stars

PDN wrote: »

Let's have less of the trolling in this thread please. If you want to discuss Christian belief then do so. Otherwise troll elsewhere.

Not trolling, you dont know my personal beliefs about aliens! and the thread topic is about Vatican saying there could well be aliens out there.. So i am dare i say, be it lighthearted and in-offensive, discussing this effect on christianity.. rather than getting all fire and brimstone im just looking at the light side - so chill..
Coz i mean - you have to admit it is kinda funny?

calahans

I don't see any conflict between the concept of God and the possibility of aliens. He is supposed to be all seeing, all knowing, with no begining or end. His domain is not bound to earth.

Ekancone

calahans wrote: »

I don't see any conflict between the concept of God and the possibility of aliens. He is supposed to be all seeing, all knowing, with no begining or end. His domain is not bound to earth.

But he needs money! :pac::pac::pac:

Mr. Presentable

MrPudding wrote: »

I'll handle this one. God is everywhere. That means he exerts his power everywhere within the universe. There is no reason not to think he may have created other life forms elsewhere in the universe. He simply has not told us about them. And why should he? He owns us and can do with us what he wishes. If he decides to keep us in the dark then who are we to question him? He is infinitely powerful, infinitely wise, if he has chosen not to tell us of his other creations then I am sure he has good reason.

MrP

Or maybe he was/is an alien.

There is absolutely no reason why there should be a human exclusivity to religion. Aliens are allowed to believe in god too.

That the catholic church is saying it's possible there are aliens is suggestive that they haven't heretofore thought them possible. For me, the idea you can believe in a god and scoff at the idea of aliens is absurd to the point of hilarious.

Dave!

Any Christians have thoughts on this? The thread is riddled with damn dirty heretics!

Pompey Magnus

PDN wrote: »

According to Genesis, the tree of knowledge of good and evil opened the eyes of Adam and Eve to possibilities to commit evil. The Bible does not say that it gave the capability for technological advancement. The idea that eating from the tree would make humans like God was part of Satan's lie.

It is more fun trying to be logical if you take the time to read and understand what you are discussing.

Oh, so as long as the aliens are completely unaware of good and evil then their existance is compatable with Biblical teachings of original sin. Not good news for us though if they have the technology capable of destroying life and Earth yet are not aware that so doing would be an evil act :eek:.

Presumably the fact that they are not tarnished with original sin means they are immortal, as Adam and Eve would have been. No doubt this would help with the long journey between galaxies.

Of course as they are immortal this means that our understanding of the nature of the Universe will have to be altered. For a start we can rule out the possibilty that there will be a Big Crunch when the Universe collapses in on itself as this means the aliens would not really be immortal and will someday die. It will also mean we can rule out the theory that the Universe will continue to expand indefinitely as this would likewise result in their eventual death.

calahans

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Oh, so as long as the aliens are completely unaware of good and evil then their existance is compatable with Biblical teachings of original sin. Not good news for us though if they have the technology capable of destroying life and Earth yet are not aware that so doing would be an evil act :eek:.

There is morality outside of religion.

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Presumably the fact that they are not tarnished with original sin means they are immortal, as Adam and Eve would have been. No doubt this would help with the long journey between galaxies.

Non sequitur.

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Of course as they are immortal this means that our understanding of the nature of the Universe will have to be altered. For a start we can rule out the possibilty that there will be a Big Crunch when the Universe collapses in on itself as this means the aliens would not really be immortal and will someday die. It will also mean we can rule out the theory that the Universe will continue to expand indefinitely as this would likewise result in their eventual death.

Discussions about what it means to be immortal in a finite universe doesnt really have a bearing on the original post.

Biro

nipplenuts wrote: »

That the catholic church is saying it's possible there are aliens is suggestive that they haven't heretofore thought them possible.

Do you really think that the Vatican only just thought of this idea in the last day or so? Or is it more likely that some bored reporter heard a Vatican scientist agree with some American scientist that there might be life on Mars and jump on a revolutionary "scoop" that in fact isn't a scoop at all?
This thread is utterly pointless. There is no new information here.

TravelJunkie

DaveMcG wrote: »

Any Christians have thoughts on this? The thread is riddled with damn dirty heretics!

I'm a christian and I think this thread is HILARIOUS... !

It's about as productive as arguing whether Adam had a belly button!!

:pac:

My thoughts... the Vatican is saying aliens could exist and my point of reference is the article I read in Irish Independent...

My view is that somebody is going to get their head chopped off if this is not already done, not only are aliens possible he said, but 'the Big Bang theory was the most "reasonable" explanation of the creation of the universe' according to the EX chief astronomer

gramlab

It hasn't been said yet, I've read and read so I will just have to do it

---

Vatican finds life on Uranus............... HA

How we laughed at that when I was a mature 6yr old.

Sounds like they are hedging their bets just in case life is found.

wolfsbane

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

I mean it is bad enough that the Vatican still persist in preaching original sin to us humans when they don't even believe the sin happened in the first place, but to then question whether aliens are tarnished by this non-event is verging on the insane.

Right on!

wolfsbane

DaveMcG wrote: »

Any Christians have thoughts on this? The thread is riddled with damn dirty heretics!

Yes. No real aliens. Man is the pinnacle of the material universe. The universe was created as a witness and help to him. The only other life-form are the angels - spirit beings.

But that does not rule out appearances of 'aliens'. The is no reason to suppose malign angels - demons - do not manifest themselves as aliens to some. The object of the Satanic kingdom is to deceive people, to lead them from God by any means.

Convincing man that the Biblical worldview is mistaken is fully in line with that. Historically that took the form of false religions, lying signs and wonders, etc. In this scientific age, false theories of origins and the accompanying concept of other evolved species throughout the universe has been added to the list.

Pompey Magnus

calahans wrote: »

There is morality outside of religion.

How so? To act morally surely one needs to be able to distinguish between good and evil and to act accordingly, the Bible explains that humans aquired this ability only through commiting the original sin. If we discovered that aliens were capable of acting morally and immorally then where would original sin stand?

Non sequitur.

1. The Bible claims that were it not for original sin then humans would have not experienced death.

2. The Vatican astronomer explains that alien life may not be tarnished with original sin.

Conclusion. Alien life may be immortal.

TravelJunkie

wolfsbane wrote: »

Yes. No real aliens. Man is the pinnacle of the material universe. The universe was created as a witness and help to him. The only other life-form are the angels - spirit beings.

But that does not rule out appearances of 'aliens'. The is no reason to suppose malign angels - demons - do not manifest themselves as aliens to some. The object of the Satanic kingdom is to deceive people, to lead them from God by any means.

Convincing man that the Biblical worldview is mistaken is fully in line with that. Historically that took the form of false religions, lying signs and wonders, etc. In this scientific age, false theories of origins and the accompanying concept of other evolved species throughout the universe has been added to the list.

I agree that milalign angels could appear as aliens.. or ghosts, or whatever else they wish. But my question is the universe is apparantely so large how will we ever really know if there's life on another planet? My instinct tells me no, there are no aliens, but if it turns out I/we are wrong - well that hypothesis makes no impact on me because God is REAL that will always be and so alien or no aliens, christianity will still be valid.