Kenpo Dvds

Trinity

Hi,

I am thinking of buying some kenpo dvds from an instructor in the Dublin 6area. They are his own dvds he has made.

Basically as these dvds are 350 euro for yellow to 5th black, I am just looking for any feedback from anyone who may have them or seen them or even heard of them before buying, this is my girlfriends logon name but will check back for any feedback!

Thanks

SorGan

are you training kenpo?

Trinity

Yeah for a while now. Thinking bout getting these dvds a while now but a lot of money to pay if i know most of it already!!

GF says its one or the other, if i go to the classes and i wont need the dvd'sand if i get the dvds i can give up the classes :eek:

spiral

train with a teacher and use the money you would have spent on the videos on a set of weights or a few seminars in bjj/mma and dont forget to buy yer missus a bunch of flowers so she wont care what you do

Pride Fighter

spiral wrote: »

train with a teacher and use the money you would have spent on the videos on a set of weights or a few seminars in bjj/mma and dont forget to buy yer missus a bunch of flowers so she wont care what you do

I agree with this, there is no way about 10 DVD's are worth that price, buy some flowers for your missus or burn them from a mate who has them.

Baggio...

I'm out of the kenop loop - so I can't really recomend someone. If you absolutely have to buy some get something from the U.S. Avoid the Larry Tatum stuff though - Not the may west IMHO.

Bear in mind that any kenpo DVDs will also be expensive.

Good luck...

kenpo_dave

Hey Trinity. I have to agree with the guys on this one. Rather than spend your money on stuff you might already know I think it would be better spent on seminars in other systems, like Judo or Jiu Jitsu, which would add to what you already have. If you want Kenpo instructional material theres alot of stuff on YouTube.

Heres some examples of what you can find on YouTube www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7dSPMN9TA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1dcchftMYs

Also, do you mind if I ask who the instructor is who made the DVDs?

FruitLover

Are these DVDs by the Golden Eagle guy? They're hilarious!

Keep going to a proper class.

Pride Fighter

FruitLover wrote: »

Are these DVDs by the Golden Eagle guy? They're hilarious!

Keep going to a proper class.

Yeah he is a funny guy and his are the most reasonably priced I know. Tatum is expensive but there is nothing wrong with the content, its all good and its all Kenpo.

Trinity

hi lads thanks for the feedback,yeah it was along those lines that i was thinking but was also thinking they would be good to have as references or whatever just was just the price made me post a post for feedback,maybe if anyone knows of anyone that has a copy could arrange something with them,thanks for the replies anyway,steven!

edges

If you're refering to who I think you are, don't buy them, and don't go to his class. There are many far better Kenpo guys around (I'd class some of my students as better than this guy)

Again, if I have the right guy, George was a fromer student of my own instructor, Shay MacNamee.

john kavanagh

edges wrote: »

There are many far better Kenpo guys around (I'd class some of my students as better than this guy)

as a matter of interest, how would you measure this? genuinely interested as i did kenpo up until black belt and i would have no idea how to tell a good one from a bad one tbh. with bjj its easy, the better guys gets the submission

Baggio...

john kavanagh wrote: »

measure this? genuinely interested as i did kenpo up until black belt and i would have no idea how to tell a good one from a bad one tbh.

I'm the same... I have a black belt in Kenpo. But all those guys look the same to me too. The other thing, which makes it even more confusing, is that each and every one (or most anyway) says the other is crap.

I guess the only way to judge their material, like anything else, is to "pressure test" it with full contact.

A lot of people said that "infighting and politics" killed off the kenpo scene. (I don't really agree with that if I'm being honest). But since Parker didn't have a true successor after he passed away, they've been gnawing at each other for a long time - especially in the US.

There are sooo may schisms these days in the style, it would be very hard to say who's right or wrong. I'm glad I left it behind tbh, and do what I do now - but thats just my personal opinion.

To the original poster, if you are going to buy any Kenpo DVDs, maybe ask on this site, as it's dedicated to AK.

www.kenponet.com

I just found this: http://www.youtube.com/casadekenpo

They are putting out the whole syllabus for free up on youtube! fair play to them! The other thing that is cool, they are going to keep it as close as they possibly can to the original Parker stuff. This might suit your needs, and save you a bundle of cash, on often overpriced DVDs.

"Delayed Sword" them were the days!

BobbyOLeary

john kavanagh wrote: »

as a matter of interest, how would you measure this? genuinely interested as i did kenpo up until black belt and i would have no idea how to tell a good one from a bad one tbh. with bjj its easy, the better guys gets the submission

I'd suppose its his ability to do forms and show off his Kenpo techniques. I do Kenpo as well (Brown Belt) and thats how I'd usually judge it.

Baggio...

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

I'd suppose its his ability to do forms and show off his Kenpo techniques. I do Kenpo as well (Brown Belt) and thats how I'd usually judge it.

That's one way.... But for me, that would be just seeing the "craft" of Kenpo in action. If you were a kenpoist that's certainly how your peers would judge you (and some other TMA guys). I don't think that it's a suitable scale, for someone whose into M.T., Boxing, MMA or even RBSD for example.

In my opinion, forms and techniques do not necessarily translate to, the effectiveness, or persons ability to defend themselves when things "go live". That's not to say I don't know some pretty tough Kenpo guys who could do the moves. But what I found that made them pretty darn hard, was their mindset, aggressiveness, and willingness to scap when things got bad. These lads would be pretty hard even with little, or no training IMO.

cowzerp

The more time spent on froms/Kata the less time spent on actual training.
i done kenpo and jumped ship while still at white belt level as i could see i was not going to be kicking anyones ass, bruce lee style after a few months!!

joined boxing and learned more about fighting in my 1st week, same goes for MMA BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo, anything pressure tested!!

kenpo_dave

cowzerp wrote: »

The more time spent on froms/Kata the less time spent on actual training.
i done kenpo and jumped ship while still at white belt level as i could see i was not going to be kicking anyones ass, bruce lee style after a few months!!

joined boxing and learned more about fighting in my 1st week, same goes for MMA BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo, anything pressure tested!!

Actually in Kenpo and trad systems the less time spent doing Kata/forms the more sloppy and poor the technique becomes. Now we all know that the problem is when people start doing too much Kata and not enough sparring. Kyokushin fighters for example have such clean technique because they do Kihon, in mass repetition, and Kata as well as sparring, but maintain an even balance between them. I dont believe however that Kata is necessary for Boxing and other similar styles as the technique doesnt require it. That been said, shadow boxing could be seen as having similar functions to Kata in that both replicate the actual technique of the system but not in use against another person.
Did you really join Kenpo because you wanted to kick peoples asses? Bare in mind that Kenpo is still a self defense system. Most people are taught to avoid the fight and give the guy the wallet etc. In combat sports however you dont have a choice but to learn how to fight quickly. You cant just step into the ring and say 'listen mate no one has to get hurt here, you just take the title and we can all go home safely'.

Good Luck.

Roper

That would be a great post of it actually meant anything.

How is a Kyokushin fighter's kick and "cleaner" a technique than a right cross in boxing? How, for that matter is a kyokushin kick any cleaner a technique than a thai kick? Could it just be that you're used to Kykushin and can appreciate the technique invloved, and aren't used to boxing and can't appreciate the technique involved there?

Bare in mind that Kenpo is still a self defense system. Most people are taught to avoid the fight and give the guy the wallet etc. In combat sports however you dont have a choice but to learn how to fight quickly. You cant just step into the ring and say 'listen mate no one has to get hurt here, you just take the title and we can all go home safely'.

What's your point? That bad training methods can be excused by saying "it's okay, it's for self defence and we just told them to give their wallets up"? It's not that in combat sports you don't have a choice, it's because when you apply yourself properly to good combat sports, you can't but learn how to fight.

Baggio...

cowzerp wrote: »

The more time spent on froms/Kata the less time spent on actual training.

Very true... In retrospect I wish that I'd spent more time hitting the heavy bag and doing proper pad work. I had been constantly hitting the air for years, and using quirky AK body mechanics, which is not great for developing impact. Even though at the time it I felt my reverse punch very powerful. Doh....

I remember hearing a story of a high ranking black belt saying that, "the American Kenpo techniques wouldn't work in a real fight", and Ed Parker simply replied "they are the ABC's of motion". Personally, I think there are not a great way to learn how to move (well, for fighting or heavy contact work). Something like MT or Boxing, completely eclipses it in my opinion.

I guess something like MT, Boxing or Close Combat is a hard sell to some people who want the whole "Martial Arts" lifestyle and experience. And may be reluctant to get into something like a boxing ring.

I'm not sure how exactly long I spent doing American Kenpo . I started in the early 90's (and I'd done other stuff before that), I went to several different Dojos around Dublin, and they all said pretty much the same stuff... After a few months doing the bit of door work (which was a easy venue to be fair) I quickly realized that the stuff wouldn't work - delayed sword, freestyle sparring techs, etc.

Don't take my word for it, as I have often said to AK lads before - if you want to test it out, go down to a MT or Boxing class and get into the ring - full contact. If you feel that it's not applicable, as the system if just for "self-defense" - you could always try it out with "full contact scenario training" like we do. And if you can make it work in under those conditions, yer' sorted! If not, my advise would be to reassess your training methods.

kenpo_dave

Roper wrote: »

That would be a great post of it actually meant anything.

How is a Kyokushin fighter's kick and "cleaner" a technique than a right cross in boxing? How, for that matter is a kyokushin kick any cleaner a technique than a thai kick? Could it just be that you're used to Kykushin and can appreciate the technique invloved, and aren't used to boxing and can't appreciate the technique involved there?

What's your point? That bad training methods can be excused by saying "it's okay, it's for self defence and we just told them to give their wallets up"? It's not that in combat sports you don't have a choice, it's because when you apply yourself properly to good combat sports, you can't but learn how to fight.

Ok perhaps I didnt think my comment through. Now, before I say anymore I really dont want to turn this thread into a Kata/training methods debate. I was only using Kyokushin as an example. My point was that the sharp technique of Kyokushin is developed through Kihon and Kata, just like a Boxers technique is developed through bag/pad work. Of course Kyokushin does alot of bag/pad work too but this is more for fine tuning technique rather than developing it. I dont believe that the practice of trad Kihon and Kata makes the training methods bad, but what does make them bad is when they are not done properly. 2 different sources on Okinawan Karate that I have found both put the ideal for Kata training at 100 repetitions. I know this is hard with todays lifestyle but 2 or 3 times once or twice a week is not nearly enough.
I dont excuse bad training. From the moment I started training in Kokoro I was picking holes in the training I did in Kenpo. My point about combat sports was that because of their nature you must learn how to fight quicker than in non sporting styles, unless you do it just as a hobby. In Kenpo and other such systems theres not such an emphasis on fighting so training can focus on other parts of the art. And even when you do start learning how to actually use it in fighting, its not for use against another fighter. I agree that sparring should be started from the very beginning with contact and not ever point sparring. I also think that Kenpo seriously needs to be updated, and even the "good" Kenpo schools still have alot of bad training methods. I mean technique lines are just useless. For the record I dont do Kenpo anymore.

cowzerp

kenpo_dave wrote: »

Did you really join Kenpo because you wanted to kick peoples asses?

Yes i did, i was 12 and just seen bruce lee bash about 200 people and was impressed, and i was probably in at least 1 fight a day like most kids in my area of that age!

The same happens in the boxing clubs whenever Rocky is on tele, loads of new faces, i did not do it for self defense as i was able to look after myself anyway, you tend to be able to if you grow up in darndale!

why do you think kids join martial arts?

either there pushed into it because there parents think there soft, or they want to be the toughest person in the world! nothing wrong with that.

Roper

Dave,
I don't really understand what your point is to be honest. Is it that repetition is what's needed to perfect technique? That's a given in any physical task surely?

Paul, I know where you're from and if you were only in one fight a day when you were kid then you must have been inside with your Atari most of the time

kenpo_dave

Roper wrote: »

Dave,
I don't really understand what your point is to be honest. Is it that repetition is what's needed to perfect technique? That's a given in any physical task surely?

Paul, I know where you're from and if you were only in one fight a day when you were kid then you must have been inside with your Atari most of the time

Sorry for not being clear. My point is that people relate traditional Kihon (as in kick/punching the air etc) and Kata with bad training methods when the likes of Kyokushin do loads of both yet still manage to create very effective strikers. The only difference that I can see between typical Kyokushin training and say the training in a typical Kenpo school is that in Kyokushin, and other more traditional styles of Karate (Goju Ryu, Shorin Ryu etc) the Kihon and Kata are trained in much higher repetition.

I see where you're coming from now Paul. Unfortunately with Kenpo though most clubs dont teach actual Kenpo to people under 16. Thats not to say that your club didnt. A mistake in my opinion. The whipping action seen in some of videos posted is key to Kenpo and should be taught from the very start.

Roper

kenpo_dave wrote: »

Sorry for not being clear. My point is that people relate traditional Kihon (as in kick/punching the air etc) and Kata with bad training methods when the likes of Kyokushin do loads of both yet still manage to create very effective strikers. The only difference that I can see between typical Kyokushin training and say the training in a typical Kenpo school is that in Kyokushin, and other more traditional styles of Karate (Goju Ryu, Shorin Ryu etc) the Kihon and Kata are trained in much higher repetition.

Well, I know very little about Kenpo or Kyokushin, but could it be that it's not the kata that makes KKS (shorthand there!) effective, but the fact that it has much less techniques to learn? Kenpo has gazillions of techniques no?

Anything I say could be spouting after that because I really know very little about how either thing is trained. But from experience, I've trained in the good the bad and the mingin, and from what I've seen, standards among arts vary from the really poor to the excellent and it's a lottery when you go looking for Kenpo or TKD or what have you. You might spend your time marching up and down the hall or you might spend your time honing fighting skills. Whereas with combat sports, competition tends to keep them honest. Of course thereare still bad gyms among combat sports but that should come out in the wash.

kenpo_dave

Roper wrote: »

Well, I know very little about Kenpo or Kyokushin, but could it be that it's not the kata that makes KKS (shorthand there!) effective, but the fact that it has much less techniques to learn? Kenpo has gazillions of techniques no?

Anything I say could be spouting after that because I really know very little about how either thing is trained. But from experience, I've trained in the good the bad and the mingin, and from what I've seen, standards among arts vary from the really poor to the excellent and it's a lottery when you go looking for Kenpo or TKD or what have you. You might spend your time marching up and down the hall or you might spend your time honing fighting skills. Whereas with combat sports, competition tends to keep them honest. Of course thereare still bad gyms among combat sports but that should come out in the wash.

Ye Ive come realize just how out of touch some Kenpo schools are. Now I did like the one I trained in, it does have potential. I do believe however that Kata, when trained properly, do have benefits. Though I also accept that there are more updated training methods. I dont see any problem with training Kata as long as there are trained properly. I also dont think that Kenpo forms are particularly effective, and really just irritated when I was training in Kenpo. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. Kyokushin does have the whole self defense aspect to it as well so it has alot of techniques, they just arent done in the same way as Kenpo.

Sorry for bringing this thread off topic.

cowzerp

kenpo_dave wrote: »

I do believe however that Kata, when trained properly,

I genuinely believe Kata's only function in Martial Arts is to get loads of people in the door without it been chaos, more people more money, most are done in halls and dont have bags etc.. so getting them doing line dancing keeps them moving while not taking up much space, otherwise tested arts such as Muay thai would use it too imo..

i've seen similar in kickboxing clubs without bags where they basically do aerobics for about half the class, again just wasting time, the actual kickboxing bit(fighting) is barely covered! and the kickboxers! dont learn too much.

kenpo_dave

cowzerp wrote: »

I genuinely believe Kata's only function in Martial Arts is to get loads of people in the door without it been chaos, more people more money, most are done in halls and dont have bags etc.. so getting them doing line dancing keeps them moving while not taking up much space, otherwise tested arts such as Muay thai would use it too imo..

i've seen similar in kickboxing clubs without bags where they basically do aerobics for about half the class, again just wasting time, the actual kickboxing bit(fighting) is barely covered! and the kickboxers! dont learn too much.

McDojos definately use Kata for money making. But the true traditional Dojos however use Kata for their intended purpose. Kyokushin is as tested as Muay Thai yet still uses traditional methods, which dont seem to hinder the fighting capabilities of the fighters. Sanshin Kata for example is very difficult to do and, seeing the following clip, would more than likely drive people away from a Dojo. This clip is of Sanshin from Goju Ryu, but Sanshin Kata is the most fundamental Kata of Okinawan Karate styles, as well as Kyokushin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5xD2Ph9CPo

cletus

kenpo_dave wrote: »

Kyokushin is as tested as Muay Thai yet still uses traditional methods, which dont seem to hinder the fighting capabilities of the fighters.

while kata may not hinder kyokushin fighters, would it not kind of be negative proof that it helps them, you know " well they do it and it doesn't make them worse" especially considering other fighting style, such as muay thai don't use them and are also proven.

Do you think, for instance, that Glaube Feitosa would be any less of a fighter had he not practiced kata?

not trying to stir **** or anything, just wondering