00 astra

muddle84

my timing belt snapped on my astra and just trying to put it all back together, there 10 valves bent which i'm in the middle of replacing. the only thing i'm stuck on is how to time it! i'm by no means a mechanic and never did anythin with an engine before apart from servicing. so is there anyone out there that can help me and tell me how to time it??
Thank you!!

hi_im_fil

Someone at http://www.astraownersclub.com/index.php should be able to help you

muddle84

brilliant thanx

martinr5232

There is a mark on each cam pully line the two of them up accross from each other inlet cam at three o clock exaust at nine o clock.
The crank pully has a mark that lines up with a mark on the inner timing cover at about five o clock.
Make sure the cam gears are put back on the right way the one with all the bits sticking out of it goes on the exaust cam also make sure the dowel is in the right hole in the pully.

Anything else let me know.

muddle84

martinr5232 wrote: »

There is a mark on each cam pully line the two of them up accross from each other inlet cam at three o clock exaust at nine o clock.
The crank pully has a mark that lines up with a mark on the inner timing cover at about five o clock.
Make sure the cam gears are put back on the right way the one with all the bits sticking out of it goes on the exaust cam also make sure the dowel is in the right hole in the pully.

Anything else let me know.

brilliant! thanx very much mate!!!
another thing is i've been told the head couldn't have been bent from this?? is this true??

martinr5232

No it shouldnt be but no harm skimming it anyway when you going to all that trouble.
You do realise the valves need to be ground in and the valve guides will be cracked.
Thats a very big job for someone with little experiance.

muddle84

martinr5232 wrote: »

No it shouldnt be but no harm skimming it anyway when you going to all that trouble.
You do realise the valves need to be ground in and the valve guides will be cracked.
Thats a very big job for someone with little experiance.

yeah but i like a challenge! hehe!! i'm studying mechanical engineering in college so i have access to an engineering workshopso i'll be able to check it there!! when you say dowel in the pulley?? what do u mean by this????

martinr5232

You might want to study a bit harder if you dont know what a dowel is.:D

It's the little bit sticking out of the end of the cam shaft it goes into the pully to centralise it.
If you look at the pullys they have two slots one says ex and the other in the dowel has to go into the corosponding hole.

muddle84

martinr5232 wrote: »

You might want to study a bit harder if you dont know what a dowel is.:D

It's the little bit sticking out of the end of the cam shaft it goes into the pully to centralise it.
If you look at the pullys they have two slots one says ex and the other in the dowel has to go into the corosponding hole.

hehe!!! i know what ye mean now, didn't know the name for it though! hehe!!!

the internal cover is fairly mangled from the timing belt so i'd prob be better off gettin a new one yeah?? where would be best to get this and how much money would i be talkin??

oh yeah do you know of any good sites to get parts such as the timing kit off?? or anywhere round the galway region that would do me a good deal cuz i believe they aint cheap!

martinr5232

There not that dear now came down in price a good bit.
Make sure and replace the water pump aswell.

If the covers are damaged at all replace them should be able to get them in any good breakers.

Not sure where you would get them im a long way from Galway.

Timmaay

Hmm, I'm a freshly qualified Mech. Engineer, I also like a challenge, I've had the head of a engine before (stripping a wreck of a car), and I'm fairly handy with the spanners, I've been messing around with motorbikes since I was ten.
But still, If I made sh!te of the valves in my current car, I certainly wouldn't be trying to fix it all on my own. Just do one thing wrong and when you turn the key in it when you have it back together you'll either be back to square one (bend the new valves) or have an engine that will not run right at all (leaking valves/head gasket).

Have you priced all the parts to fix it, 10 valves is alot to be replacing. Are you sure you wouldn't be better off trying to get a replacement engine (or possibly just another head). There should be a good few astras/vectras with the same engine in breakers yards by now. Just make sure whatever you get has the same engine code as your engine. Thats a far easier fix than what you're trying to do yourself now.

muddle84

Timmaay wrote: »

Hmm, I'm a freshly qualified Mech. Engineer, I also like a challenge, I've had the head of a engine before (stripping a wreck of a car), and I'm fairly handy with the spanners, I've been messing around with motorbikes since I was ten.
But still, If I made sh!te of the valves in my current car, I certainly wouldn't be trying to fix it all on my own. Just do one thing wrong and when you turn the key in it when you have it back together you'll either be back to square one (bend the new valves) or have an engine that will not run right at all (leaking valves/head gasket).

Have you priced all the parts to fix it, 10 valves is alot to be replacing. Are you sure you wouldn't be better off trying to get a replacement engine (or possibly just another head). There should be a good few astras/vectras with the same engine in breakers yards by now. Just make sure whatever you get has the same engine code as your engine. Thats a far easier fix than what you're trying to do yourself now.

wel it aint my current car, it snapped when i was on the way to buy my new car, so i'm not pushed for time!!! i have a friend who is mechanic who is guiding me and get his opinion every once in a while but he didn't know how to time it!!! i've watched people seat valves before and know how to do that and know how to check if there sealed or not. And when its all back together i'll turn the engine over by hand a few times then i'll know if the valves are hitting the pistons and if they are i know its not timed right!!!! i priced engines and its working out cheaper this way so what the hell!!!!!! hehe

whitelightrider

How often should the timing belt be changed in the Astra? Im driving a 06 Astra 1.3 diesel.

muddle84

whitelightrider wrote: »

How often should the timing belt be changed in the Astra? Im driving a 06 Astra 1.3 diesel.

i'm the wrong person to answer this one anyway! haha!! don't know bout the diesel! but i'll defo be changing the lot ervy 15000 miles from now on!!! water pump and tensioner and pulleys!!!! if theres any sort of rattle out of the engine at all get it checked asap!! the tensioner was rattlin on mine and i'm nearly sure that what went on mine!!!

hi_im_fil

Not sure about a 06 diesel, but the 1.4 in the mk4 is supposed to be done every 40k miles

Esel

muddle84 wrote: »

...but i'll defo be changing the lot every 15000 miles from now on!!! water pump and tensioner and pulleys!!!!

Serious overkill there.

Timmaay

muddle84 wrote: »

wel it aint my current car, it snapped when i was on the way to buy my new car, so i'm not pushed for time!!! i have a friend who is mechanic who is guiding me and get his opinion every once in a while but he didn't know how to time it!!! i've watched people seat valves before and know how to do that and know how to check if there sealed or not. And when its all back together i'll turn the engine over by hand a few times then i'll know if the valves are hitting the pistons and if they are i know its not timed right!!!! i priced engines and its working out cheaper this way so what the hell!!!!!! hehe

Fair enough, TBH you can across as being way out of your depth in your 1st post, but if you've got a mechanic to look over you when you do the important bits it isn't too bad. I got a friend whos a mechanic to help me the last time I was changing the timing belt on my car, I did everything except the actual belt, and from looking at the way he did it I would have the confidence to do the whole job myself the next time.
To get the timing right you really do need to find a good guide on the web or maybe a haynes manual for your car will show the exact timing. Timing belt kits can be got cheaply enough from the likes of GSF and OTTO, they are based in dublin but do delivery around the country AFAIK.

muddle84

right well i've been a very busy bee since i last posted in this thread!!! instead of doing the valves myself i gave the head to a engine re-manufacture place and they did the valves and pressure tested it and discovered that it did need a skim so got that done last week and bought the timing belt kit and water pump!!! finished my last exam in college yesterday so went on the piss last nite then with a mild hangover started putting it back together this morning,well more like 1 o'clock if i'm being honest. Just finished for the night now as the light is not on my side and i don't have a shed. Re-built the head with the cams and put the inlet and exhaust manifold on and put the head back on. Torqued the new head bolts and got the cam pulley marks lined up!! put on the timing belt kit and the timing belt and turned it over by hand 3-4 times and everything seems ok. Just got the rocker cover back on before it started getting too dark oh and the engine mount that you have to take off. So alls looking well so far and i should have it running(if its going to run)hehe tomorrow!!!

So thanks everyone for your help!!! Much appreciated!!! hopefully i'll be able to return the favour some day!

Mr.Diagnostic

Do you have the correct procedure for setting the preload on the tensioner? That is vital.

muddle84

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Do you have the correct procedure for setting the preload on the tensioner? That is vital.

yeah theres instructions for that with the timing belt kit!!! thats a question i meant to ask! i followed that procedure but the timing belt doesn't feel really really tight like. should it feel super tight??? i'll be getting it checked by someone before i try to start it anyway!!!

muddle84

right everythings back together its turning over and that jazz!!! everything plugged in but no spark!!! so any ideas?????

martinr5232

There is two plugs beside the expansion bottle one round one and another one underneith it check that small little grey one is connected.
Check that the pins in the ecu arnt bent can sometimes happen.

Lucifer

Starting off, you need cylinder 1 and 4 at top dead center. When they are the arrows on the crankshaft pulley will be lined up (they can also be lined up with cylinder 2 and 3 at top dead). you will need the cam shafts with the marks lined up to each other. Make sure the little tab that holds the tensioner in place is correctly in its hole. (Also make sure you replace the water pump unless it has been changed recently). Fit the belt. To set the tension, with one hand, using an 11 spanner, turn the inlet camshaft pulley anti clockwise to take up some slack between the camshafts, then with other hand, using a 5/6mm allen key(cant remember) rotate the tensioner anti clockwise until the marker is just past new mark (just tighter than new mark, as when you rotate the engine, it should move back a small bit.) then let go of the 11 spanner and tighten the tensioner with a 40 torx. Turn engine over twice and check all marks line up again. Then refit bottom pulley, camshaft sensor. Start engine with covers off and the needle should by roughly at the new mark, moving back and forward slightly. If a bit off just adjust as necessary. Hope this all makes sense! hope you have done all of this.

Now on to not starting.
Have you fit the camshaft sensor? this will cause it to not start. And if its the older x14xe you much have the crankshaft pulley fitted to run the engine (although you should fit it anyway even if its a z14xe) Also do you have the crackshaft pulley on its keyway? (the little notch so it only goes on one way) If this is all correct post back and we'll think of more ideas. Where are you based as if it was close I could possibly have a look at it for you.

muddle84

thanx lucifer and martin! you were right martin i didn't have the grey plug plugged in! i don't know how i missed!!! so it started but now it sounds like a tractor!!!! don't know what it could be!!! there seems to be no power in it whatsoever though!!! i'm guessing its timing related!!! but i double checked the timing before i started it and all the notches were lined up!!!!

Lucifer

It will always sound like a tractor when you start it after doing the head as the hydraulic tappets take a while to fill with oil. Is normal with an astra, after running for a few mins and it warms up it should go quiet. Unless it is running rough in which case it could be a number or things. If you have double checked the timing (bottom arrow lined up and two camshaft marks pointing at each other) you can be fairly sure that this is not the problem. Will it rev at all? or just a bit sluggish? is it a x14xe or a z14xe? (if it has 2 o2 sensors, one before and one after the cat, its a z14xe, the x14 only has one and also has a crank sensor mounted by the crank pulley, the z does not). also is the engine management light on?

kevin

muddle84

Lucifer wrote: »

It will always sound like a tractor when you start it after doing the head as the hydraulic tappets take a while to fill with oil. Is normal with an astra, after running for a few mins and it warms up it should go quiet. Unless it is running rough in which case it could be a number or things. If you have double checked the timing (bottom arrow lined up and two camshaft marks pointing at each other) you can be fairly sure that this is not the problem. Will it rev at all? or just a bit sluggish? is it a x14xe or a z14xe? (if it has 2 o2 sensors, one before and one after the cat, its a z14xe, the x14 only has one and also has a crank sensor mounted by the crank pulley, the z does not). also is the engine management light on?

kevin

its an x14xe!!! i let it warm up to fill the tappets up and the noise didn't go away!!! i did check the timing again and the crank puley was about two teeth out and i corrected that and put it back together again and still no different! it revs but i toke it for a small spin and seems to have no power!!! so i don't have a clue whats goin on!! any ideas? oh and no engine management light on!!!

thanx very much again kevin for all this!!!

Lucifer

Just to point out to the poster with the 1.3 diesel astra, this is a fiat engine and has a timing chain instead of belt so keep the oil changed regularly and you shouldnt have any problems with it.

The 1.4 petrol in the astra g (98-04) has a timing belt which should be changed every 40,000 miles or 4 years.

The newer model astra h (04-present) 1.4 petrol is now using a chain instead of the belt.

Just to clear that up so hopefully people wont be caught out in the future.

Back to the op's problem
Can you say for sure that the timing is correct now, not doubting you but if you thought it was the first time it may be worth checking it once more just to be totally certain.
Is the engine idling smoothly or does it seem to be running rough and shuddering?
Is it missfiring? this wont bring on an engine management light on a x14xe due to only one 02 sensor.
can you describe the tractor noise a bit better?
have you/can you carry out a compression check? (if its idling smoothly this shouldnt be necessary)

answer these and i'll have some more ideas

kev

martinr5232

muddle84 wrote: »

its an x14xe!!! i let it warm up to fill the tappets up and the noise didn't go away!!! i did check the timing again and the crank puley was about two teeth out and i corrected that and put it back together again and still no different! it revs but i toke it for a small spin and seems to have no power!!! so i don't have a clue whats goin on!! any ideas? oh and no engine management light on!!!

thanx very much again kevin for all this!!!

If it was two teeth out what happend is you thought your cam shafts were lined up but both were to high ie the inlet was not exactly at three and the same fore the exaust it can easily happen.
But it should have locked up when you turned it over.
First thing you have to do is a compression test and make sure there isnt a valve bent.

And people think bein a mechanic is easy.

Mr.Diagnostic

What are the chances of an X14XE running 2 teeth out without hitting a valve? Slim I would think. Re-time it and see what its like then. Good luck.

muddle84

yeh i have no way to do a compression test and i wouldn't know how to do it anyway!!! i'll check the timing again so!!! if i have not tensioned it right could it slip a tooth easily enough?? but i'm sure i've tensioned it right as i followed the procedure in the instructions closely!!!! as for the tractor noise it sounds like a rattle. a bit like my mates e30 beemer which has knackered tapets(well thats what he reckons it is anyway) but it sounds worse than the beemer!!!!

Lucifer

To do a compression test you would need one of these. Perhaps your mechanic friend could lend you one.


To carry out the test you need to remove the spark plugs, screw this into cylinder 1, crank the engine for about 2 or 3 seconds and the guage should rise to about 10-14 bar roughly. then let off the pressure, remove and repeat for the other 3 cylinders.

Is the engine running smoothly? or is it shuddering and shaking excessively? does it seem like its idling normally apart from the noise? If you have bent a valve the engine will be idling very rough.

I have had an astra that I needed to leave running for about an hour before the hydraulic tappets went quiet. but this would not affect the power so this may not be your problem, although you may have 2 seperate problems.

Would you know a missfire? can you say if it is or not or not sure?

Did you sit the little leg on the tensioner into the hole to stop it moving? it is at about 8 o'clock on the tensioner. If this was not in the timing could slip and you could bend valves.

muddle84

Lucifer wrote: »

To do a compression test you would need one of these. Perhaps your mechanic friend could lend you one.


To carry out the test you need to remove the spark plugs, screw this into cylinder 1, crank the engine for about 2 or 3 seconds and the guage should rise to about 10-14 bar roughly. then let off the pressure, remove and repeat for the other 3 cylinders.

Is the engine running smoothly? or is it shuddering and shaking excessively? does it seem like its idling normally apart from the noise? If you have bent a valve the engine will be idling very rough.

I have had an astra that I needed to leave running for about an hour before the hydraulic tappets went quiet. but this would not affect the power so this may not be your problem, although you may have 2 seperate problems.

Would you know a missfire? can you say if it is or not or not sure?

Did you sit the little leg on the tensioner into the hole to stop it moving? it is at about 8 o'clock on the tensioner. If this was not in the timing could slip and you could bend valves.

yeah i sat the leg of the tensioner into the slot. i don't think its backfiring anyway! i've seen and heard cars doing that! its like a bang yeah? isn't that when petrol ignites in the exhaust!!! its idling smooth. It feels grand except for the noise! I was thinking about the power loss and it could be that i haven't driven it since march when the belt snapped and i've been driving my new car since then and thats a nissan 200sx 2ltr turbo so it could be that i'm just used to the power of that and the astra feels dead in comparison!!!! i'll see can i get hold of one of them to pressure test it!!!!

Lucifer

if it seems to be idling fine then its unlikely your down on compression. I was talking about a missfire, when combusiton doesnt take place properly (either due to poor/no spark, poor fuel delivery, or no/low compression. if it seems to be running ok then you can rule this out. If it was due to no compression the engine would be shaking badly as it would only be running on 1/2/3 cylinders. If it was poor spark/fuel or low compression it may idle ok but cough and splutter under load (when accelerating).

If you think its not doing this and the power seems ok, I still think the noise may be due to hydrualic tappets. I presume you changed the oil after doing the head? Some times they take ages to go quiet. Best way is to just let it warm up and idle for a while and they will eventually go quiet. Dont rev it as it will take longer. Can you record the noise send it to me?

One other thing, is there oil getting up to the head? Are you sure you put the head gasket on correctly? one side is marked top, but on the astra it will sit either way (top mark at timing belt and top mark at gearbox) and most of the holes will appear to line up but one wont and if put on incorrectly can block the oil port going to the head.

muddle84

Lucifer wrote: »

if it seems to be idling fine then its unlikely your down on compression. I was talking about a missfire, when combusiton doesnt take place properly (either due to poor/no spark, poor fuel delivery, or no/low compression. if it seems to be running ok then you can rule this out. If it was due to no compression the engine would be shaking badly as it would only be running on 1/2/3 cylinders. If it was poor spark/fuel or low compression it may idle ok but cough and splutter under load (when accelerating).

If you think its not doing this and the power seems ok, I still think the noise may be due to hydrualic tappets. I presume you changed the oil after doing the head? Some times they take ages to go quiet. Best way is to just let it warm up and idle for a while and they will eventually go quiet. Dont rev it as it will take longer. Can you record the noise send it to me?

One other thing, is there oil getting up to the head? Are you sure you put the head gasket on correctly? one side is marked top, but on the astra it will sit either way (top mark at timing belt and top mark at gearbox) and most of the holes will appear to line up but one wont and if put on incorrectly can block the oil port going to the head.

i'll see can i find some way or recording it for you! yeah theres definately oil getting to the head i checked that when it was ticking over after a few seconds the cams were covered in oil. Yup changed oil aswell. I'm still not sure about the power like i said i'm gonna have to get someone else to take it for a spin to see. and i think i found someone who has that thing to do the compression test.

For the tappets i did let it warm up and toke it for a short spin but the noise didn't go away and get quieter at all!

muddle84

First of all i'd like to apologize for not updating you all sooner, as you've all been a great help to me!! Things got very hectic in the last week in college and after that moving out etc, i manage to do a compression test and everythin was fine. but i did have to move out of the house in galway so had to get a trailor and towed it down home to achill and left at my neighbour, another mechanic. After having a look around the engine and inspecting the tapets he realised that there is two bungs that plug the oils ducts that feed the tapets were missing. He got new bolts and showed them to me and they're very unusal looking so i'm 100% sure that i didn't remove them so it must have been the place that did the valves for me!!! once they were replaced the tapets filled up in minutes and the engine was runnin lovely and smooth and quite as a lamb again!!!!!:D, one last small problem a small oil leak developed at the crank shaft seal. I figure this is from when the timing belt snapped and rapped around the timing belt pulley as it was mangled in behine this and all over the place. So it must have damaged seal, so replace that and jobs a good'un!!!



So anybody want to buy a 2000 reg vauxhall astra with new timing belt????????:D