Pitching Advice

ShriekingSheet

As well as reading the Pelz book I thought I'd throw this up as a topic to see if anyone had some good advice.

From 60 yards down to 15 yards I'm having some bother. I'm making a very obvious mistake but it's a fairly ingrained habbit and therefore hard to shake.

My set up is solid, arms and shoulders move is generally ok and I have decent hands. One big flaw I have is my hips and lower half jump and slide way ahead resulting in all sorts of duffs and thin shots. When I really focus on keeping a firm left side and essentially still lower half I actually play these shots quite well.

But other than thinking about not doing this I haven't much else to work on. Has anyone else experience of this or have a good thought or practice idea that might help?

Golferx

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

............... resulting in all sorts of duffs and thin shots...............

Your duff shots might not be because of what you describe.
Try playing the ball further to the right in your stance, and not hitting a full shot.

Practise with a half swing and keep the wrists fairly solid. Get your range first, then work on your accuracy.

Trampas

And don't be worried about the big flop shots.

Learn the chip/pitch and run first before going for flop shot as most the time a run shot will be nearer than a flop shot as distance is more crucial on flop.

Mister Sifter

Shriek, when i came back to playing last summer this was one area i struggled with big time. (still could be better i may add!)

Can't think of any specific changes i made but i just used to go out and drop a few balls 50-70 yards out and practice. Still do this when i'm out in the evenings and it's working.

ShriekingSheet

Golferx wrote: »

Your duff shots might not be because of what you describe.
Try playing the ball further to the right in your stance, and not hitting a full shot.

Practise with a half swing and keep the wrists fairly solid. Get your range first, then work on your accuracy.

Hmmm. Regardless of ball position the move I'm making is going to f*ck me up. As I said, my set up including ball position, weight distribution, allignment, grip and hand position etc is solid and orthodox. I'm a decent golfer so I understand the idea of turning as a unit rather than arms working independantly etc.

I am happy with diagnosis I'm just finding it hard to shirk the habit.

ShriekingSheet

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Shriek, when i came back to playing last summer this was one area i struggled with big time. (still could be better i may add!)

Can't think of any specific changes i made but i just used to go out and drop a few balls 50-70 yards out and practice. Still do this when i'm out in the evenings and it's working.

Cheers Graeme,

Yeah I've been putting plenty of time into it. I suppose the slow progress is what's frustrating me.

Really happy with how my long game and putting have sharpened up. Granted, at 9 I'm a few shots higher than before but I've scored 34, 34 and 35 in my last three home rounds with some crummy mistakes included in there so as I get back into gear things should start to come together score-wise.

I've been doing the same in the evenings with wedge shots. It does seem to be the kind of thing that just rights itself with general practice despite the fact that I don't have a really specific change in mind to improve towards (other than "don't jump ahead of the ball").

I'll stick at it anyway.

Adiaga 2

SS, I noticed that in another thread you mentioned swing thoughts for these pitch shots. Maybe you should keep the thoughts for practise(a la Dr. Bob's advice) and work more on your feel when out on the course. Just a thought..

It's an area of my game that was pretty solid last year but I'm struggling with this year. Haven't played or practised as much this year though. Last time I played duffs from within 60yds cost a lot of shots - very frustrating..

ShriekingSheet

Adiaga 2 wrote: »

SS, I noticed that in another thread you mentioned swing thoughts for these pitch shots. Maybe you should keep the thoughts for practise(a la Dr. Bob's advice) and work more on your feel when out on the course. Just a thought..

It's an area of my game that was pretty solid last year but I'm struggling with this year. Haven't played or practised as much this year though. Last time I played duffs from within 60yds cost a lot of shots - very frustrating..

Yep I do keep tech-swing thoughts to the range - but what that thought should be or what I should be working on in practice was my question. It's a BIG physical mistake I'm making so I do need to approach it in a technical way but you're right, adhering to the correct mental approach is important do as well.

Patrick_K

Hi SS,

You're playing off 9 so that makes you a better player than I so I shouldnt be trying to give you advice but here goes anyway !
On shots of those distances I now try to play them with my feet pretty close together as I used to have similar issues.
With my feet close together my hips and lower half cant move as much so it takes them out of it.
The short game bible will tell you that these shots shouldn't involve the lower half at all ;-)

PK

GreeBo

from that distance its all arms and shoulders.
Its a shorter swing so you dont physically have the time to transfer your weight back, get your body set and then shift your weight forward again.
but you are trying to, this ends up in a lunge/sway.

Change your setup so that you have maybe 60/70% of your weight on your front foot and your stance is slightly open.
This clears the way for your arms/shoulders to swing away freely.
Its *much* harder to chunk it if your weight is already set to the impact position on address.

ShriekingSheet

GreeBo wrote: »

from that distance its all arms and shoulders.
Its a shorter swing so you dont physically have the time to transfer your weight back, get your body set and then shift your weight forward again.
but you are trying to, this ends up in a lunge/sway.

Change your setup so that you have maybe 60/70% of your weight on your front foot and your stance is slightly open.
This clears the way for your arms/shoulders to swing away freely.
Its *much* harder to chunk it if your weight is already set to the impact position on address.

Cheers.

Did a bit on it last night. I traditionally would always set up with my weight more on the left as per text book but it's confusing in this case because I'm definitely too steep into the ball and there's a temptation to almost put more weight on my right side to help me take it back low and slow and come into it with a more shallow strike. But I know, despite the fact that it might seem to be an improvement, it ain't the way to go.

One thing I did notice is that my knees were a bit too bent. I'm 6ft 4 and have a good upright set-up posture so this could easily have leaked into my wedge play. Bent knees seem to move more laterally in the wedge swing. So I tried standing my legs up straighter.

From what you guys have said and what I've worked on previously, last night I worked on-

keep legs and hips quiet in swing
take the club back lower and try to hit a more shallow strike
I could have been a bit too outside to inside so swung the club around me more.
As always, generate the swing from torso and shoulders - turn back and turn through
Keeping my head and centre of gravity behind the ball until impact

(that was all over the course of maybe 180 balls and broken down to one or two thoughts per shot)

I made some in-roads on the range but not a huge amount. Played well on 9 holes, shooting +1 with some putts that were unlucky not to go in. On the course, struck all pitches but one pretty ok but really only 1 in 4 went close.

I'd really like to do well in the Medal this Saturday so won't be worrying too much about it from now til after the weekend.

GreeBo

One more thing that helps me a lot, never hit a full shot from 100yrds or less.
go down a club, choke down on the grip and hit it 75%.


Finally, if you think your knees are too bent, perhaps you are too far from the ball. This would mean you are reaching (and would also mean you swing around yourself). As you said, the wedges are a much more upright swing than anything else.

Best of luck.

ShriekingSheet

GreeBo wrote: »

One more thing that helps me a lot, never hit a full shot from 100yrds or less.
go down a club, choke down on the grip and hit it 75%.


Finally, if you think your knees are too bent, perhaps you are too far from the ball. This would mean you are reaching (and would also mean you swing around yourself). As you said, the wedges are a much more upright swing than anything else.

Best of luck.

Interesting. I have been working (with full swing) on getting more of an angle from my arms to the club - ie: there's a hinge at address when you look from behind me down the target line rather than my arms and the shaft forming a straight line. Given that I'm making my hands lower it does naturally push me back from the ball. That said, I judge this by a hands-to-crotch measurement of about 8 inches so I'm technically correct with a 7 or 8 iron but maybe my hands are too low with the wedges now and I could get nearer and more upright.

Cheers for that!

On your first point about choking down - I hit a SW just over 100yds and continue to use the SW onwards towards the hole using gradually shorter, softer swings. I do know the idea of grip down and punch a handy PW or 9 iron in from 60yds or whatever but to be honest that's more of a "get it on the green and dont duff it" approach rather than trying to get it close and make a 3. Granted, I am duffing some but I've always been prepared to take the pain in the short term in favour of working towards a more advanced way of doing things. I don't intend playing off 9 for much longer

For guys who don't have as much time or the inclination to practice I'd completely advocate GreeBo's advice here. Make life as easy as possible for yourself and garuntee getting down in 3 from 80yds rather than trying for 2 and risking 4.



By the way, I'm going to the Trinity Ball tonight so tomorrow's Medal score could be affected by things other than pitching technique! I actually maybe be rolling a few 9 irons up the green after all

GreeBo

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

By the way, I'm going to the Trinity Ball tonight so tomorrow's Medal score could be affected by things other than pitching technique

Ive a singles match tonight and then Pierce Purcell tomorrow, tried to play a few last night and couldnt hit it out of my way.
Oh the joys of golf.:o

J.O'B

Grib down the shaft, and feel for how heavy you need to hit it. The practice swing is so important for pitching. You need to feel the shot throught the practice and then replicate it. Start doing this around the greens and you'll notice a remarkable difference.

J

css1

From reading your posts mate, it really sounds like you need to relax a bit, and not think about so many things. Try a few natural swings, and relax your grip along with a shorter backswing. You should have little to no lower-body movement for any sort of short chip, and to be honest if you swinging and maintaining your balance, after that it's entirely up to feel, which is practice (or luck on the day!)

Try not to over-analyse things, and enjoy yourself..

Patrick_K

SS - just noticed something you said above 'I hit a SW just over 100yds and continue to use the SW onwards towards the hole using gradually shorter, softer swings.'

I wouldnt be surprised if this is behind some of your problem.
According to you know who for those wedge shots which are less than a full wedge (30 - 100 yds or so) the only thing that should change is the length of your backswing.
Tempo and follow-thro must remain the same and the different distances are acheived by differing the length of backswing. Because this is something you can easily measure (using a mirror for example) you can learn the feel of the different backswing legths and hence become more reproducable with your distances.
If you try to hit your wedge softer you are likely to chunk/duff it an odd time.

PK

ShriekingSheet

Patrick_K wrote: »

SS - just noticed something you said above 'I hit a SW just over 100yds and continue to use the SW onwards towards the hole using gradually shorter, softer swings.'

I wouldnt be surprised if this is behind some of your problem.
According to you know who for those wedge shots which are less than a full wedge (30 - 100 yds or so) the only thing that should change is the length of your backswing.
Tempo and follow-thro must remain the same and the different distances are acheived by differing the length of backswing. Because this is something you can easily measure (using a mirror for example) you can learn the feel of the different backswing legths and hence become more reproducable with your distances.
If you try to hit your wedge softer you are likely to chunk/duff it an odd time.

PK

Hmmm, yeah I think it might be worth shortening up in general just to ensure I'm not quitting on it cheers.

GreeBo

Patrick_K wrote: »

If you try to hit your wedge softer you are likely to chunk/duff it an odd time.

+1
I choke down on the grip (or go down a club) and swing as normal.

BillyBoy

GreeBo wrote: »

Ive a singles match tonight and then Pierce Purcell tomorrow, tried to play a few last night and couldnt hit it out of my way.
Oh the joys of golf.:o

What club you play for GreeBo? Was playing for Foxrock in Glen of the Downs yesterday. Its a tough old slog out there. Rough was very thick. Needless to say Foxrock continued their fine (for fine read crap) record and didn't qualify
:rolleyes:

stockdam

I would have considered myself to be one of the worst pitchers in the world and have been looking for a "secret" for years.....well now I've made a breakthrough.......the rest of my game has been good but the short game has let me down big time.

So what did I do.......

The main thing that I have done is slowed the swing way down with almost no effort to hit the ball. I've just started to let the club "fall" down and through. Beforehand I'd be trying to use my hands or my arms etc. and looking for a secret. Now I just swing back and almost lazily let the downswing start when it's ready. It's hard to explain but the lack of rushing keeps me from thinking. My swing is pretty solid so the setup and technique has always been fairly good. However something inside always "knew" I'd hit a bad shot so I always did.

I'll take a couple of practice swings until I hit the grass the far side of the ball (so that it will be ball/grass). I try to focus on the length of backswing I need and not on trying to control how far I hit the ball (I mean that if the backswing is the right length then the ball will go the right distance). I then just replicate this swing.

It's hard to explain it better but I'm now even confident with a half 8 iron drilled low into the wind whereas before I'd never try this shot.

GreeBo

BillyBoy wrote: »

What club you play for GreeBo? Was playing for Foxrock in Glen of the Downs yesterday. Its a tough old slog out there. Rough was very thick. Needless to say Foxrock continued their fine (for fine read crap) record and didn't qualify
:rolleyes:

Grange, we continued our tradition of missing out by a couple of shots (3 this time)
Last year it was missed on countback and the year before by one shot.
Im nearly glad, there is no way I could have played 36 holes on Sunday!
We managed to keep the same ball for the round, thank heavens for spotters!