Speeding while overtaking. Legal?

preilly79

Hi

I'm pretty sure this has been answered but can't seem to find it using the search function, so here goes:

Driving from Dublin to Galway last friday I was the second from the front in a line of cars. The car in front was doing the legal limit as was I (80km/hr), and there was a healthy gap between us. No problems.

Well, no problems until he noticed up ahead a member of the Gardai manning a speed check. He slowed down below the limit (~60km/hr), and I never even saw the speed check ahead. I sped up, and overtook him safely (long straight, no cars coming), and was going about 105km/hr by the time I pulled in and passed the speed check.

So anyways, that's what happened. I'm wondering if there is leeway given to motorists overtaking?

Would be a damn shame if I got any points from this!

biko

Speed check was a laser? Did they photo you?

preilly79

biko wrote: »

Speed check was a laser? Did they photo you?

I'm not entirely sure of the difference to be honest. It was a gun of some sort mounted on a tripod, I don't know if this also takes photos. There was a Garda car parked (hidden) in a laneway at the speed check but I was not persued and stopped.

Blitzkrieger

You're not allowed break the speed limit even if you are overtaking, but....

preilly79 wrote: »

So anyways, that's what happened. I'm wondering if there is leeway given to motorists overtaking?

....you'll probably get a bit of leeway. Odds are if they didn't pull you over straight away, you won't get anything nasty in the post.

If you do.....just claim you never got it....

seamus

They often provide leeway, but in reality there's no provision in law which allows you to break the speed limit in order to overtake.

It's a grey area that's impossible to legislate - ideally you would be permitted to break the limit in order to safely complete the manouver, but how fast is "safe"? This is where Garda discretion is key. Note that if it was a fixed camera, your chances of getting away with it are limited.

preilly79

seamus wrote: »

... Note that if it was a fixed camera, your chances of getting away with it are limited.

fixed cameras being the "grey box on the top of a pole type" type Gatsos?

Do the other kind, the one that I passed, take photos or otherwise record registrations?

BrianD3

The laser guns on tripods do not take photos so the Garda has to pull you over to give you a ticket.

Speedometers usually overread by around 5-10% so if your speedo was showing 105 your true speed was probably around 95-100.

Even if your true speed was above the limit, Gardai will usually give some leeway, however you cannot predict what this leeway is. You will get leeway even if you are not overtaking. If you are overtaking you may get a bigger leeway.

preilly79

BrianD3 wrote: »

The laser guns on tripods do not take photos so the Garda has to pull you over to give you a ticket.

If that's the case then I think I can rest easy!

Thanks to everybody for the clarifications!

seamus

preilly79 wrote: »

fixed cameras being the "grey box on the top of a pole type" type Gatsos?

The ones in the vans as well - they take photos.

kayos

The one time I got points was as a result of having to speed up and break the limit to safely overtake.

The car I was over taking was one of these drivers that liked to vari their speed between 40MPH and 60MPH for no good reason. He was doing about 40 when I went to over take, straight road, broken line and nothing coming towards me. He then decided to speed up to about 60 when I was along side him. I went faster, passed him gave him plenty of space and pulled back in. Once back in lane I slowed back down to the limit, looked in my rear view and had the blue light coming up behind me, I looked at my speedo at that point and it was about 58mph.

He was not interested in the reason why I broke the limit, in fact he tried to write the ticket for more than the gun showed. Go figure.

Lord Nikon

99% of the time, i'm exceeding the limit when overtaking, then usually ease up on the throttle and cruise at the limit.

I wouldn't overtake someone doing the limit, no need to really.

Although, if someone is taking there time getting to the limit, I will overtake.

Steve

kayos wrote: »

The car I was over taking was one of these drivers that liked to vari their speed between 40MPH and 60MPH for no good reason.

What do you mean no good reason....? either he was on the phone or she was putting on make-up. Is that not a good enough reason.

Do you seriously expect someone to be able to drive, make a phone call, change gear, check mirrors AND be aware of their speed all at the same time.....c'mon.

:rolleyes:


Seriously though, why do some drivers slow to 60kph at the merest hint of a bend and then speed up to 100kph again on the straights making it impossible to overtake without exceeding the limit.:mad::mad:

antodeco

Just be aware that some Gardai have camera's mounted on tripods. Theres always one along the n7 and up along the m1. Hopefully discretion plays a key role in the garda, otherwise keep an eye on the post.

When you drove past them, did they look at you at all?

preilly79

stevec wrote: »

Seriously though, why do some drivers slow to 60kph at the merest hint of a bend and then speed up to 100kph again on the straights making it impossible to overtake without exceeding the limit.:mad::mad:

or why do some drivers sh1t themselves at the sight of a garda and slow down way below the limit?

preilly79

antodeco wrote: »

When you drove past them, did they look at you at all?

Nope, he kept his eye to the gun/camera/laser/revenue-generation-device (pick one!)

Cionád

preilly79 wrote: »

or why do some drivers sh1t themselves at the sight of a garda and slow down way below the limit?

or why do some drivers go 70km/h in an 80 or 100km/h zone, and then continue at 70km/h through a village with a limit of 50km/h :mad:

Phaetonman

Cionád wrote: »

or why do some drivers go 70km/h in an 80 or 100km/h zone, and then continue at 70km/h through a village with a limit of 50km/h :mad:

You have just hit on the worst possible type of driver. Infuriating.

I.S.T.

preilly79 wrote: »

or why do some drivers sh1t themselves at the sight of a garda and slow down way below the limit?

If you have not been paying attention to your speedo and you suddenly see a speed trap it can be instinctive to step on the break.

Sandwich

stevec wrote: »

Seriously though, why do some drivers slow to 60kph at the merest hint of a bend and then speed up to 100kph again on the straights making it impossible to overtake without exceeding the limit.:mad::mad:

They are committed to driving safely, even if erring on the side of caution.

corcaigh07

real pity if you get something for this, reilly. technically what you did is illegal but i feel you were much safer to do what you did rather than do some crazy slow overtaking. hate those drivers.

Steve

Sandwich wrote: »

They are committed to driving safely, even if erring on the side of caution.

I really don't want to go there but...

If they were 'committed to driving safely' then they'd stay at 60kph, move over to the left and allow the backlog of increasingly agitated drivers that is collecting behind them to pass.

The only excuses for this behaviour are that they are either incompetent, oblivious to other road users, or just plain and simple tossers.

Steve

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

If you have not been paying attention to your speedo and you suddenly see a speed trap it can be instinctive to step on the break.

True, however, by the time you see them you've more than likely been caught - so no point in braking. I agree though, it's instinctive to throw out the anchors no matter what speed you're doing.

knifey_spoonie

Sorry for going of topic a little,

On the point of speedo's having a 5-10 % lee-way for giving our speed, is this an industry standard, which can be used a legal point in court, say for argument sake i was doing a indicated 120 but this was auctualy 130 (on the laser gun) due to this lee-way would i get fined

Its something ive allways wanted to know

It could work both ways:cool::cool::cool:

Steve

knife_fighter wrote: »

Sorry for going of topic a little,

On the point of speedo's having a 5-10 % lee-way for giving our speed, is this an industry standard, which can be used a legal point in court, say for argument sake i was doing a indicated 120 but this was auctualy 130 (on the laser gun) due to this lee-way would i get fined

Its something ive allways wanted to know

It could work both ways:cool::cool::cool:

In practice car speedometers always over-read. This stops car manufacturers getting sued every time someone gets 'done' for speeding.

I've never heard of a case where it's been the other way round.

Run_to_da_hills

I got done over taking an unmarked cop car at 80MPH It was in the pre points days with a 50 quid fine.

cyclopath2001

stevec wrote: »

True, however, by the time you see them you've more than likely been caught - so no point in braking. I agree though, it's instinctive to throw out the anchors no matter what speed you're doing.

The practice of some speeders is to drive up real close behind the car in front to make it difficult to photograph the reg plate. That leaves people like me trying to keep my speed legal while being pressed on from the rear.

astraboy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The practice of some speeders is to drive up real close behind the car in front to make it difficult to photograph the reg plate. That leaves people like me trying to keep my speed legal while being pressed on from the rear.

Yes all us speeders are tailgating bastards just so the cops won't get our reg plate. The question is, if we are "speeding", yet still stuck behind a Maud Flanders like you, either you are over the speed limit too, or we are not speeding. You have a great logic.:rolleyes: Of course if you were to kindly let me overtake when safe to do so we could both be on our merry way.

MrPudding

The recommend course of action here to to gently lower your speed, making sure you have a sufficent gap between you and the car in front, should anything go wrong. The slower speed will hopefully also mean that the tosser behind you can also stop in time should something go wrong. Hopefully he will pass you quick enough and get out of your way.

MrP

corcaigh07

stevec wrote: »

I really don't want to go there but...

If they were 'committed to driving safely' then they'd stay at 60kph, move over to the left and allow the backlog of increasingly agitated drivers that is collecting behind them to pass.

The only excuses for this behaviour are that they are either incompetent, oblivious to other road users, or just plain and simple tossers.

its actually been a long time since ive witnessed a slow driver pulling into the hard shoulder to allow overtaking. in the meanwhile, the slow fecker is probably raving inside about tailgaters :rolleyes:

simple case of a driver who doesnt know the rules of the road. same person will use the wrong lane around the roundabout and use incorect signaling, go into a yellow box without a care in the world etc etc etc etc etc

corcaigh07

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I got done over taking an unmarked cop car at 80MPH It was in the pre points days with a 50 quid fine.

well done.

Steve

corcaigh07 wrote: »

in the meanwhile, the slow fecker is probably raving inside about tailgaters :rolleyes:

LOL... probably true.:D

MrPudding

I think that speeding when overtaking is one of those questions you will never get agreement on. The simple fact of the matter is it is illegal. That is a fact and cannot be disputed. However, it does seem that the gardai or police in other jurisdictions do have some discretion in the matter.

This is not something you will generally see written down, but seems to be the case anecdotally. That said, when the SPECS cameras were launched outside Newry a police spokeswoman said something like “… this system will allow drivers to break the speed limit temporarily to safely overtake, but they will not receive a penalty as long as their average speed stays below the limit…” I have tried to find the quote, but I am afraid Google has let me down, I think I did post it at the time.

When I did my advanced bike test in my pre test briefing the examiner, a bike cop, told me that during any overtakes he would “….be looking at the road ahead and not my speedo, but don’t take the p1ss.” This has also been the experience of most of my mates that have done it also. But then to counter that one of the examiners, part of the safety camera partnership in the area, was famous for having zero tolerance.

I appreciate that these two example are from outside Ireland, but I think that there are plenty of people on this board could give examples of similar experiences with the Gardai.

MrP

MrPudding

stevec wrote: »

LOL... probably true.:D

I like to make progress myself, but I dispise tailgaters. They are scum.

MrP

BrianD3

I often break the speed limit when overtaking. A few months ago I overtook an unmarked car doing about 80 in a 100, kept within the limit for that one though.

Recently I saw an unmarked car escorting two Irish explosives trucks on the N4, some eejit came up behind and overtook the cops and the two trucks over hatch markings and at a major junction and over the speed limit. Cops did nothing but then again they were obviously assigned to escort duty rather than traffic duty.

Sometimes they use a marked car for these escorts and most drivers are sh1t scared to overtake even on the dual carriageway where there should be no problem overtaking and keeping within the limit. So a big queue builds up behind the convoy.

Steve

MrPudding wrote: »

I like to make progress myself, but I dispise tailgaters. They are scum.

MrP

If you're making progress then it's unlikely that you'll have a line of frustrated tailgaters behind you:)

I was lolling at picture of the slow guy having a private rant about the line of traffic behind him, oblivious to the fact that he is the cause.


Back on topic, you are right that any 'decent' Guard will see that briefly exceeding the speed limit (sorry, I can't use the term speeding in this case) in order to minimise time on the wrong side of the road is a good and safe way to overtake.

On the other hand, yes, it is technically illegal and you risk being caught by a fixed camera that doesn't really know anything about road safety.

MrPudding

stevec wrote: »

If you're making progress then it's unlikely that you'll have a line of frustrated tailgaters behind you:)

You would think..... but unfortunately not always the case....

MrP