Dublin traffic ban - dipping in the toe?

vincenzo1975

From RTE.... what do you think??

I personally think it is a bad move and will score the gov major negative publicity. I wonder is this story just being floated to gauge public reaction.
Dublin centre roads could be closed to cars

Monday, 5 May 2008 11:43
A plan that would close off large sections of Dublin city centre to all private traffic is being considered.
Recommendations include the creation of a 'bus gate' area around College Green that would close off O'Connell Street, Westmoreland Street and Dame Street to all traffic except buses and taxis.
Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport Frank Fahey told RTÉ's Morning Ireland about a confidential draft report outlining the plan.
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Mr Fahey said closing city centre roads to private traffic would make way for a reliable, high-frequency bus service. He said this is the best way to ease city centre traffic congestion in the short term.
The plan envisages 350 extra buses, with services running at 10 minute intervals off-peak and three minute intervals at peak times.
The closure could be implemented in April 2009.
The proposal includes a plan for private traffic flow around the city, involving the construction of two new bridges across the Liffey.
There would be a temporary bridge at Macken Street, and another at either Hawkins Street or Marlborough Street, to keep traffic from the car-free zone.
Dublin Chamber of Commerce says it is in favour of the plan, but with the construction of Dublin's metro imminent, planning for the construction and implemention phase will be key.
Transport Minister Noel Dempsey will get the draft report in the next ten days. After that, the Transport Committee will look at improving congenstion in Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford by making their city centres car-free.

ballooba

It has to happen eventually. I can't imagine the owners of Arnotts, Temple Bar or Andrews Lane car parks being too happy about it though.

SkepticOne

I would be in favour of it. I get a good run in on the bus along the QBC from Stillorgan but the whole thing slows down as the bus hits Stephen's Green.

Bit worried though that taxi numbers would expand to fill the space left by cars. There would be a need for new short range routes in the car-free zone.

Belfast

It might make it safer to cycle in the city centre.

Where are they going to park their cars outside the 'bus gate'?

No doubt they will find a way to mess it up.

eoin5

Belfast wrote: »

No doubt they will find a way to mess it up.

City centre as a hive of speeding taxis?

ballooba

Belfast wrote: »

It might make it safer to cycle in the city centre.

Where are they going to park their cars outside the 'bus gate'?

No doubt they will find a way to mess it up.

A lot more people would cycle if it were safer.

cormie

Wait, just privately taxed vehicles, or commercial vans etc too? What about deliveries and local access?

DadaKopf

ballooba wrote: »

A lot more people would cycle if it were safer.

And the more people who cycle, the safer it is for cyclists.

Frank McDonald once described College Green, Dublin's Georgian centrepice, as a 'profoundly unpleasant place'. Having been to similar squares in Malmo, Vienna, Paris, it's exciting to imagine College green free of traffic, an architectura oasis in the city where incredible public events, markets etc. could take place.

But this plan looks like it's about to turn College Green into a public transport artery. Hardly pleasant to have hundreds of soot-deafening buses cutting people up every few seconds.

But it looks like this may be temporary, and perhaps Dame St. will be made to accomodate proper segregated cycle lanes.

But look at the timescale for this. The plan may be implemented, temporarily, when two more bridges span the Liffey. This means we'll be waiting 2 years for this measure. If at all.

In the meantime, we'll be waiting another year for the public bicycle scheme.

serfboard

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

I wonder is this story just being floated to gauge public reaction.

Yes, because ...

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport Frank Fahey told RTÉ's Morning Ireland about a confidential draft report outlining the plan.

Your post describes it perfectly by using the term "dipping in the toe." This process was described beautifully by Mary O'Rourke in the Seanad one time, who more or less, gave away the secret by using exactly this phrase in describing what one does as a minister.

The American's call it floating a trial balloon, and it's the standard way that new policy is implemented.

1. Draft a new policy
2. Give it to the media.

(Optional: If you think the public might like it, give your name. If you think it's the right thing to do, but the public won't like it, - don't. In this case, Frankeen clearly thinks the public will be in favour of it, but just to be sure to be sure, he floats it anyway. If he didn't, the news item would say "RTE has seen a copy of a draft report ...")

3. If the public like it, go ahead and do it.
4. If not, say it's only a draft report and "nothing has been decided one way or the other".

As the classic Yes Minister once said:

The ship of state is the only ship that leaks from the top

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey will get the draft report in the next ten days. After that, the Transport Committee will look at improving congenstion in Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford by making their city centres car-free.

I think it's a great idea myself. However ...

eoin5 wrote: »

City centre as a hive of speeding taxis?

I would solve this problem by extending the ban to taxis too.

But ...

cormie wrote: »

Wait, just privately taxed vehicles, or commercial vans etc too? What about deliveries and local access?

I would presume (hope?) that this will be accounted for.

DadaKopf wrote: »

it's exciting to imagine College green free of traffic, an architectura oasis in the city where incredible public events, markets etc. could take place.

Having been to a couple of free concerts in College Green in the 1990's I definitely agree with you. It was pretty amazing. However, given the amount of Dublin bus traffic that passes through this area I can't see it happening.

DadaKopf wrote: »

But look at the timescale for this. The plan may be implemented, temporarily, when two more bridges span the Liffey. This means we'll be waiting 2 years for this measure. If at all.

Agreed, unfortunately ...

flogen

DadaKopf wrote: »

And the more people who cycle, the safer it is for cyclists.

Frank McDonald once described College Green, Dublin's Georgian centrepice, as a 'profoundly unpleasant place'. Having been to similar squares in Malmo, Vienna, Paris, it's exciting to imagine College green free of traffic, an architectura oasis in the city where incredible public events, markets etc. could take place.

But this plan looks like it's about to turn College Green into a public transport artery. Hardly pleasant to have hundreds of soot-deafening buses cutting people up every few seconds.

But it looks like this may be temporary, and perhaps Dame St. will be made to accomodate proper segregated cycle lanes.

But look at the timescale for this. The plan may be implemented, temporarily, when two more bridges span the Liffey. This means we'll be waiting 2 years for this measure. If at all.

In the meantime, we'll be waiting another year for the public bicycle scheme.

Figuring out a way to make an area like that vehicle-free would be great, although maybe impractical.

The problem with this idea, as good-intentioned as it is, is that it will do little to really improve the traffic situation in Dublin city... just look at the southbound end of O'Connell St which is supposed to be private-car free.

Ignoring all the private cars that use the road despite the changes (and ignoring the fact that there's still a way for private cars to get onto O'Connell St. legally) the place is still constantly chock full of vehicles from buses to taxis to delivery vans. As a matter of fact I find it still takes longer to go southbound on O'Connell St. than it does to go Northbound.

(speaking of which, weren't they supposed to make the northbound side of O'Connell St. bus and taxi only shortly after the changes were made to the southbound side?).

Anyway - nice idea if practical but it's all window dressing. It's not solving the root of the problem and it won't solve congestion in Dublin. It would be nice to turn College Green into some kind of civic space but I don't know how realistic such a change would be at this stage; at the very least it would require a huge overhaul of city centre road networks to take all traffic away from that area.

leninbenjamin

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey will get the draft report in the next ten days. After that, the Transport Committee will look at improving congenstion in Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford by making their city centres car-free.

not knowing much about the nature of the Dublin problems my attitude is that i can't understand why they'd experiment with Dublin first? surely logic would dictate that the smaller towns and cities be pedestrianised first, then move on to the bigger mess when a suitable system with the kinks knocked out has been devised. typical of this country to do things arseways. i'd like to see this happen, but if they get it wrong first in the capital it will completely sour the rest of the country to the idea and damage the long term prospects for working the kinks out.

OTK

DadaKopf wrote: »

But look at the timescale for this. The plan may be implemented, temporarily, when two more bridges span the Liffey. This means we'll be waiting 2 years for this measure. If at all.

The plan is to build military-style bailey bridges in a couple of months. The 'temporary' bridges will of course stay up for years while metros and luas get built. Then, if there's any money left, they can be replaced with pretty bridges.

The reporting of this proposal is sensationalist. Not much is going to change. A few cars along three streets will be replaced with more taxis and buses. All carparks including Fleet street will have access preserved. It will still be possible to drive through the city centre for example along the quays, over Butt bridge and Grattan bridge.

It's just a few more turning restrictions, half of which have been introduced already.

DadaKopf

OTK wrote: »

The plan is to build military-style bailey bridges in a couple of months. The 'temporary' bridges will of course stay up for years while metros and luas get built. Then, if there's any money left, they can be replaced with pretty bridges.

The reporting of this proposal is sensationalist. Not much is going to change. A few cars along three streets will be replaced with more taxis and buses. All carparks including Fleet street will have access preserved. It will still be possible to drive through the city centre for example along the quays, over Butt bridge and Grattan bridge.

It's just a few more turning restrictions, half of which have been introduced already.

I know at least one of the bridges will be a bailey bridge, but I expect it won't arrive so soon. Could be wrong, though.

Erin Go Brath

The traffic ban (excl buses and taxis) for Dame, Westmoreland, and O Connell Streets is inevitable and i would welcome such a move. I believe, if implemented it could make a significant saving in travel journey times. If successful in time i could see this being rolled out to include more and more city centre streets.

RedPlanet

leninbenjamin wrote: »

not knowing much about the nature of the Dublin problems my attitude is that i can't understand why they'd experiment with Dublin first?

In an international context, it's not an experiment.
But regardless, this is a top-down country. Power, money and population is concentrated in Dublin.
Can you think of a single case of a grass-roots idea, from beyond the Pale, that eventually made it to Dublin? I can't.

Kovik

As a carless student living in the middle of town, I, for one, welcome our new pedestrian overlords.