W123 230E vs W123 280E

tc20

Hi all,

i'm considering a W123 280E to take the place of my recently departed W114.
I'm just wondering has anyone driven both a 230 and a 280 powered W123?
I've been digging up some info, and some quarters say that the 4cyl 230E is almost, or as good a drive as the 6cyl 280.
Understandably the 280 is going to be a thirstier animal, and obviously a heavier lump, so that might lead to a nose-heavier drive. But can a 4pot really be as good as a creamy inline 6? For the Merc heads out there, the 230 is powered by the M102, and the 280 has the M110 unit. When new, there was a difference of almost 50bhp between these two units.
Personally i'm leaning towards the bigger engine, but am just curious to hear from anyone with experience of both.

mike65

Which year though? The M102 engine arrived in 1980 so not in any "classic" era model, the previous engine was carb-fed. The 280 injected from 1975 so is classic tax freindly.
The earlier 230 models were all carb-fed (nice example on carzone right now).

Mike.

johnf2020

I have owned a 230E AND OFTEN LONGED for a 280E.
I did get a chance to drive a 280E. It did not feel any faster than my 230.
It was smoother,,but I expected it to be even smoother than it was. Many magazines describe this 6 pot as being trashy which I would agree with.
If you are looking for a 123 with more than 4 cylinders, I would look for a 300D. Ok, it might not be that fast,but it feels faster than it is,,,it will run on veg oil without mod. at about 70%,,but the chances of getting a lowish mileage one would be difficult.

Of course if road tax is an issue,go for the 230E. There are only 2 issues with this engine---headgaskets,,exhaust manifolds can crack!

John

tc20

I'll be taking a test drive in an '82 280E on saturday, so it doesn't qualify for classic tax just yet, and if the greens have their way, it might never do

@johnf2020 - thats surprising to hear the M110 described as thrashy. I know its a different powerplant completely, but the 6cyl 230 i had previously ticked like a little sewing machine. I'm curious to know in what situations the 280E has advantage over the 230E. Its an auto that i'll be looking at btw.
I'm gonna duck the derv option as well. I know they're phenomally strong units, but as you say, trying to find a good one....

It'll be used as a daily driver, not a weekend toy

johnf2020

the 280E was a twin overhead cam engine that had its orogins back in the W114 280E.
Actually I have many copies of Mercedes Enthusiasts Magazine,and in every mention of this engine--the word trashy comes up.!

I had a 250 w114 a couple of years ago and it too was much quieter than the 280E.
It must be the double overhead cam gear>

tc20

johnf2020 wrote: »

I had a 250 w114 a couple of years ago and it too was much quieter than the 280E.
It must be the double overhead cam gear>

do you mean that the DOHC gear just 'sounds' thrashier? and do you mean when its being pushed hard, or even just at idle?
The car im looking at is at a classic dealer, i dont think he has any 230Es in stock. If he does i'll see if i can run both models back to back.

I've got a good few ME mags stashed up in the attic - i must root them out when i get home.

Blue850

Daily driver? My Dad ran a W114 280E and 17 -18 mpg was all it'd do

johnf2020

I think what they mean is that it is not as refined as many other 6 pots of the same era!:rolleyes:
My 250 only did about 20mpg,whereas the 230E would do about 27mpg.

tc20

@ Blue850 - i'm looking at a W123 280E as a daily driver, not the W114.
I did up until a couple of weeks ago run a W114 230.6 (with twin zeniths) as my daily wheels, and i was getting between 19-21 mpg. My commute is only 5miles each way. I'd expect a little bit better from an injected 2.8, not much mind you, but i wouldn't expect it to be any worse

tc20

johnf2020 wrote: »

I think what they mean is that it is not as refined as many other 6 pots of the same era

Ok, cool. It's just unusual to hear of 6cyl MBs being described as thrashy

johnf2020

Just one other thing I remember from my brief drive in the 280.
They d'ont have a rev.counter in the W123 in either the saloon or Coupe.
I thought that this was a bit of a let down,as 230E's/CE's had it.
Must be a reason for it though

tc20

^ yeah i've wondered about that too..i don't think the early W126s had rev counters either, tho i might be wrong. I wonder when did rev counters start to appear/become the norm for regular cars

Blue850

tc20 wrote: »

@ Blue850 - i'm looking at a W123 280E as a daily driver, not the W114.
I did up until a couple of weeks ago run a W114 230.6 (with twin zeniths) as my daily wheels, and i was getting between 19-21 mpg. My commute is only 5miles each way. I'd expect a little bit better from an injected 2.8, not much mind you, but i wouldn't expect it to be any worse

W114 and W123 had the same engine 2.8 injected engine was the point I was making, BTW I squeezed 26mpg out of my W115 230/4 but it was on fumes getting to the petrol station, getting around 22 -23 on average. I read somewhere recently that the 230E give better mpg than the 200 carb model

tc20

Blue850 wrote: »

W114 and W123 had the same engine 2.8 injected engine was the point I was making

apologies, i should have known they had the same engine.
17-18mpg sounds pretty thirsty..ouch

Anyways, i'll be taking a spin in the 280E tomorrow, i'll let you know how i got on.

There's a nice W116 450SE in this weeks Classic Car Weekly, 3owners, last since 1980, good history. Its part of a collection, metallic brown, and asking just under £4K. I could be tempted, but i shudder to think what kinda mileage you'd get from it, so i dont think its a viable everyday set of wheels..

Blue850

Have you seen the W123 280E on Carzone? Great reg 280EZI

MercMad

Yeah the 290 Twin Cam is rather noisey, I suppose with twice the amount of cams, follwers etc., it will be twice as noisey, certainly my experience is that they are noisier than the earlier 6 cyl. M130 engines, and noisier than most 6 cyl.'s but they are durable.

I've always liked the 230E engine, its honest and IS more economical than the carb fed 200. I dont think the carb fed 230 was imported here officvially on the saloon, I could be wrong but I dont remember it. I DO remember them making a hullabaloo in about 1981 when the 230E arrived to replace effectively the 250 carb 6 cyl. The 230E had tinted windows and sun roof and most of the first batch had metallic paint and alloys as the list price was less than the 250's so the dealers specc'd them up.

My only suggestion is to try them and see what you think, but just buy whichever has the best body & trim !

Good luck !

BTW I recall 280 EZI when new around Malahide !

johnf2020

Look at this peach----pricey though
http://www.classic-benz.co.uk/mercedes-details/B68.htm

tc20

just had another look at 280EZI. 1 owner and only 86k miles over 30years?
Interesting, but i'd wonder about rot on the wings. Its not too apparent from the pics, but thats not to say there isn't any.

@ MercMad - the 280E i'm looking at tomorrow is one of Mervyn Heatleys. Our next meet is up at his place for a tech discussion. I was at the last show at CityWest and the 280 was the best of the 6 or 8 W123s there. Quite a few of them are a bit rough around the sills and wings

Dades

johnf2020 wrote: »

Look at this peach----pricey though
http://www.classic-benz.co.uk/mercedes-details/B68.htm

That is just gorgeous.
Love the colour combo.

tc20

^ yeah its a beaut all right, but seriously pricey!!!

Just noticed they also have a gold '84 280CE "not up to our usual demanding standards", 140k miles,MB-Tex interior, £3950.... Hmmmm, methinks i'll give 'em a ring at lunchtime and see

johnf2020

THIS IS MY DREAM CAR



http://www.classic-benz.co.uk/mercedes-details/B66.htm

MercMad

johnf2020 wrote: »

THIS IS MY DREAM CAR



http://www.classic-benz.co.uk/mercedes-details/B66.htm

.............yes, the 3.5 is a seriously cool machine. In Essen last year they had one in the same colour combo as that car, fully retored and fitted with the lastest S500 engine and transmission.....................fully reversible conversion too..............it was unreal. I think it was priced at €110k which IMO is a far better buy than any new car at that price.

Not a 3.5, nor does mine have a good interior.............yet, but fresh out of the paint shop after a bare metal resto !

johnf2020

:p:eek:

Was that car converted my MEKATRONIC---They do some good work,and all reversable

johnf2020

SORRY TO ROB THE THREAD though if I was going to spend big money on a classic,this is what I would buy,,after I've lost a few pounds(lbs)and can fit into it








or even an R8 GORDINI

tc20

Wow! she's looking good Ben!

have to agree with you johnf - that model (W111/112?) coupe is the business, one of my all time faves.

johnf2020

BEN,,,,,,I dont suppose that your surname begins with a C.
I'm in the Mercedes Club also. Dont have a classic merc. at the moment,only a 04 E200K Elegance with only 18K on the clock.

John

8~)

I've had a couple of W123s with the 230e engine and I've currently got an SLC with the 280 engine plus driven the W123 with 280 engine. Also I have a W123 with the 2 litre carb engine. Verdict is....

... the 230 engine is the best compromise by far. Yes, the 280 is more powerful. It's got 180ish BHP and is pretty quick but it is a noisy engine and fuel consumtion is around 20-23 mpg. The 230e is a smooth engine and the cars I had averaged around 27 mpg (in estate body) in mixed driving, including pulling trailers and carrying loads.

For regular driving I'd have a 230 with auto box.
For weekend fun I'd have the 280 with auto box.

Oh yes, the 230e is as economical, if not more so, as the 200 carb but has far more poke (136BHP vs. 109ish)

tc20

Guys, the deal is done!

I will take ownership of the 280E during the week. I took the car for a good test drive on saturday, and i have to say she's a good 'un. Practically one owner from new (a company car which became part of a retirement package), always garaged, a totallly complete SH, practically unmarked interior, v good body (one or two little rust superficial rustspots which will be sorted before i pick her up), 132k miles, but looks, feels and drives like 32k.
I have to say in comparison to my W114, the interior does seem a bit tighter space wise, and the boot is smaller, but none the less a fine motor. I'll keep you all posted on how i get on living with the car day to day.

andreas_220D

tc20 wrote: »

Guys, the deal is done!
I will take ownership of the 280E during the week.

Congrats.

johnf2020

Well Done----Very best of luck with her. Easy on the gas!

Dades

Photos please, tc... or you never got it!

tc20

thanks all,
i was getting between 19-21mpg from my W114, and my commute is only 5miles each way, so consumption isn't a big issue. I hope to have her by the weekend.

http://www.prestigeclassiccarsales.ie/1982merc280e.php

MercMad

johnf2020 wrote: »

BEN,,,,,,I dont suppose that your surname begins with a C.
I'm in the Mercedes Club also. Dont have a classic merc. at the moment,only a 04 E200K Elegance with only 18K on the clock.

John

.............yep you got me !

And yes it was the Mechatronic conversion, some beast !!

Well done on the purchase TC looks like a real beauty, hope to see it soon !

Dades

MercMad wrote: »

Well done on the purchase TC looks like a real beauty, hope to see it soon !

+ 1
Well done!

tc20

MercMad wrote: »

Well done on the purchase TC looks like a real beauty, hope to see it soon !

thanks again!
If you're up at Mervyns for the tech lesson tomorrow, you'll see the car then.
I have to say she looks almost factory fresh, and comes with an absolute sheaf of history documentation. The car will be supplied on euro plates (as is the obligation) but i'm thinking of getting a pair of silver on black plates done up for her. Would i be right in saying technically the car must be over 30 before these can be fitted? I just think they look more suitable than the euro jobbies

MercMad

tc20 wrote: »

thanks again!
If you're up at Mervyns for the tech lesson tomorrow, you'll see the car then.
I have to say she looks almost factory fresh, and comes with an absolute sheaf of history documentation. The car will be supplied on euro plates (as is the obligation) but i'm thinking of getting a pair of silver on black plates done up for her. Would i be right in saying technically the car must be over 30 before these can be fitted? I just think they look more suitable than the euro jobbies

...............not sure if I will make Mervyns, still putting my W111 back together.

I think regarding the plates if it is pre 1987 you should be okay. The rules are a bit sketchy here but certainly we had plenty of cars with black on silver number plates before the 87 XX 1234 came along. The rules state something along the lines of "cars registered after 1987 must have black digits on white background" and as you know your car WAS registered before 1987.......just not in THIS Country !! :cool:

BTW if you ARE getting black/silver make sure you get the larger correct font OR the ACE plates and not the ones that are simply the current font size in a different colour (Like I have at the mo' )

tc20

MercMad wrote: »

BTW if you ARE getting black/silver make sure you get the larger correct font OR the ACE plates and not the ones that are simply the current font size in a different colour (Like I have at the mo' )

Thanks for the info!
Mervyn mentioned that another member of the club has a contact for plates, so that should work out just fine

What exactly are ACE plates btw?