hunter or shooter??

irish setter

what do ye consider yourselves to be hunters or shooters? my definition of a hunter is its all about the dogs and how they work and with a shooter its all about the shot wheather you use dogs or not. personally i'm a hunter. i wouldn't care if i never knocked a bird so long as the dogs worked well. although i do like to knock the odd one for the dogs

Musashi

I'm a shooter, or maybe a Gunista?

I love rifles, making accurate shots, sometimes on game.

I would not get the same enjoyment from target shooting though, there has to be at least a chance of taking a beast?

More than that, I like owning and using guns, the more the merrier. Growing up my ald lad was a firearms dealer so we shot all sorts! I love stripping guns and cleaning them down properly, oiling them enough, and then using the hell out of them.

If it goes "Bang" I'm there, but rifles are my favourite.

mallards

Im a hunter, If im out with the gun Im hunting for game. If I was to stand at say a driven shoot, or was into target shooting I would then be a shooter. I reckon if you are doing anything with the gun more than aiming it and shooting your hunting!

Either way it beats sitting in front of the TV or shopping with your missus!:(


Mallards.

Vegeta

mallards wrote: »

Either way it beats sitting in front of the TV or shopping with your missus!:(

Amen to that.

I am a bit of both to be honest

I love hunting with well trained dogs, Christ that is satisfying. Same as you OP as long as we meet something and the dogs work well I don't care if I don't shoot them. Its nice to get a few shots to make the day but I'd rather meet the birds than shoot them. Same with deer stalking.

Then I also love plinking and informal target shooting with the rifle. Not huge into clays but that is because it is more formal and I am not a huge fan of competition. I'm very competitive by nature and cant turn it off, so if I enter any form of competition, I have to do well or I get annoyed with myself.

whitser

im a hunter, its all about working dogs for me. got my first rat with an old lab x that we had when i was about 11 or 12 and i've been hooked ever since. watching hounds,lurchers,terriers, springers work is an absolute joy for me.
i,ve done plenty of shooting over the years but i'd rather go au-natural and take quarry with dogs. its a real plesure to watch a hound,terrier,lurcher etc.. that you've maybe bred or rared from a pup,trained and slowly brought to a point were its doing what its been bred and evolved to do. i'd rather a good hunt with my dogs then any thing.

whitser

even the odd day when i head out after roosters with a mate,i normally act as a beater with my springer and terrier working to flush game for his gun. defo my enjoyment comes from watching dogs work.

stevoman

Im a hunter to be honest. I love the thrill of watching the dogs works and trying to work in sink with them. i also love the feeling of entering a ferret into a warren and waiting for the bolt wondering just what is going on under there. For me its the thrill of the hunt and nothing else. If i had to choose tomorow between beast or gun, id definitly choose beast!!!!!

Vegeta

stevoman wrote: »

If i had to choose tomorow between beast or gun, id definitly choose beast!!!!!

well said

meathstevie

I suppose if you use the OP's criterea I'd be a shooter but in reality I find that the dog complements the gun and vice versa.

togster

I am a hunter! I used to shoot a bit but like the other posters i really enjoy watching a dog work. I have worked with fox hounds in Ireland and America as whips and kennels man. In america we used to rear the pups and it was a joy to watch them grow and hunt.

whitser

what packs did you work with here togster?
do you keep any hounds now?

togster

I'd prefer not to name them. Both are in the west of Ireland. Used to work with one in up state new york too. I have never seen such good facilities for hounds in my life. They had heated beds and 5* treatment all the time. Hunts in america are usually very well off and thankfully most of the money was spent on the animals. They also used to be fitted with GPS tracking systems while hunting!!

Grizzly 45

Both! Love hunting of all types,paticulary duck and deer and love the odd clay shoot and practical shooting.

whitser

the yanks dont do anything by half, thats for sure. i was searching the net looking at american hounds, some the strains used down in the south look very useful.
but they love their hounds in the west of eire too. a gps system never got a fox though!

Hezz700

I do not agree with the OP,s difinition of what a Hunter is.

A Hunter is one who uses fieldcraft and cunning to put them in a position to capture their intended prey regardless of the tool they implement, be it dog or gun or both. Or for that matter a spear or a bow.

A person who uses Fenns, larsens, snares etc etc would be a "Trapper"

A person who works with dogs is a "Dog handler".

A person who uses falcons ia a "Falconer"

A person who uses a rod is a "Angler"

But they are all Hunters.

I think the title of "Hunter" transends all these specific areas of outdoor activities and cannot be claimed by any school of thought as their own.

IMHO

It wasn't me!

I agree with Hezz. A deer stalker who doesn't use a dog, just a rifle, could hardly be scorned as a "shooter". Besides, the way the words are juxtaposed gives the term "shooter" a pejorative sense, which I disagree with.

A hunter to me is someone who kills things by skill and fieldcraft of any kind, and marksmanship is a skill unto itself for the hunter. If you want to call people hunters and shooters, a shooter doesn't kill anything more sentient than paper; a hunter does.

Vegeta

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I agree with Hezz. A deer stalker who doesn't use a dog, just a rifle, could hardly be scorned as a "shooter". Besides, the way the words are juxtaposed gives the term "shooter" a pejorative sense, which I disagree with.

A hunter to me is someone who kills things by skill and fieldcraft of any kind, and marksmanship is a skill unto itself for the hunter. If you want to call people hunters and shooters, a shooter doesn't kill anything more sentient than paper; a hunter does.

well what about the examples given, driven shoots etc not exactly hunting is it

the guys who set up a table (see youtube) outside the forest and take shots at deer 600-900 yards away, again not really hunting

It wasn't me!

In that case they're capitalising on someone else's skill in breeding the birds, feeding and nurturing them, keeping them in an area and then driving them. I still have to say marksmanship is as important a skill for anyone who hunts with a gun as fieldcraft is to a trapper, and neither makes anyone more or less of a hunter. As regards long range shots on deer, it's still hunting of a variety, just entirely marksmanship-focused. What specifically about using dogs makes it hunting any more than anything else, as was suggested in the OP?

whitser

maybe the question should be beast or machine. meaning dog,ferret ,hawk etc... v's gun,trap etc...

Kareir

I've always used it in that if you're using a gun, you're a shooter (i.e. Pheasant shooting, clay shooting, target shooting, fox shooting)
and if you're Hunting (i.e. Horses, hounds, foxes, stags, the whole thing) you're a hunter?

_Kar.

PS: Hunting also applies to the gathering of game animals with a rifle, i suppose, eg. Deer hunting.

Vegeta

It wasn't me! wrote: »

In that case they're capitalising on someone else's skill in breeding the birds, feeding and nurturing them, keeping them in an area and then driving them. I still have to say marksmanship is as important a skill for anyone who hunts with a gun as fieldcraft is to a trapper, and neither makes anyone more or less of a hunter. As regards long range shots on deer, it's still hunting of a variety, just entirely marksmanship-focused. What specifically about using dogs makes it hunting any more than anything else, as was suggested in the OP?

While I thoroughly agree with your points on marksmanship being very important I would never call someone standing at a peg shooting at pheasants a hunter or someone employing only marksmanship for that matter.

Just before someone posts saying "What's wrong with driven shoots?" There is nothing wrong with peg shooting, it can be very challenging and I would love to do it

Hunting implies some form of search or chase though

# the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport
# the activity of looking thoroughly in order to find something or someone

I don't think the OP meant just dogs by the way but using dogs (or fishing, or falconry, or stalking) you are actually exercising the verb hunt, you are searching and in pursuit of the game.

I think stevoman put it best, you don't need a gun to hunt.

It wasn't me!

Vegeta wrote: »

I think stevoman put it best, you don't need a gun to hunt.

but let's go one further. You don't need a gun to hunt, but using one does not mean you're not hunting either.

I understand what you mean and I know I find it hard to call pegged driven shooting hunting as well, but where do you draw the line? What about a guy in a hide decoying pigeons? Where's the fundamental difference? Or a guy who's set up a position downwind of a rabbit warren, lying prone in the grass with a rifle picking off bunnies for the dinner. Are neither of these hunters? Is it purely a perceived thing of laziness? If so, what about trappers who set snares and check them daily? Hardly searching out their quarry, is it? And yet you'd find it difficult to deny that it's hunting I'm sure, same as pigeon decoying. Any thoughts on that?

bunny shooter

I love guns and I love dogs, two together, heaven !

Vegeta

It wasn't me! wrote: »

What about a guy in a hide decoying pigeons? Where's the fundamental difference?

Well a person decoying pigeons (who wants to be successful) will do some homework, they will check flightlines to see where pigeons are going each morning and evening. They will spend an age perfecting the art of decoying, they have to use the wind when setting up the decoys. Also camo plays a big part of the game and a good hide and camo set up is all part of the field craft.

Shooting is secondary there as if they get the above wrong there will be no shooting

Or a guy who's set up a position downwind of a rabbit warren, lying prone in the grass with a rifle picking off bunnies for the dinner.

You've already answered your own question though. If you want to shoot rabbits like above you have to go out, find some warrens, get out of site, be quiet, down wind.

There is a bit of field craft involved at least. Same as pigeon shooting, get the craft wrong and you may meet no quarry.

If so, what about trappers who set snares and check them daily? Hardly searching out their quarry, is it?

Well I can put a trap in the middle of the main street at home but it wont get me many nights dinner (unless I like rat ). On the other hand if I go out looking for trails used by my quarry, looking for scat and spoor, laying sand to check their foot prints to make sure I am targeting the right animal. Irradicating my own scent from all my traps, improving the operation and disguise of my traps and so on. Experimenting with different baits

Is it purely a perceived thing of laziness?Any thoughts on that?

I don't think its quite the laziness itself but you are on to something. The OP is asking which do prefer or classify yourself as, the hunter (who enjoys the fieldcraft the pursuit, working with animals and nature) or the shooter (who gets the enjoyment in a succesful shot)

They are not mutually exclusive of course. I know I like both aspects but if I had to choose hunting and animal or just shooting one, I would get more pleasure from the hunt/stalk/decoying and therefore choose that.

Where do you draw the line?

I think it has to be drawn when the person using the gun uses no fieldcraft or does not pursue the animal themselves. The target is presented to them and they pull the trigger. That's shooting

If you pursue the animal yourself using fieldcraft in all its different flavours as you go then that's hunting.

All my personal opinion of course.

Good debate this, very hyptothetical nonsense type but its better than flaming each other

It wasn't me!

Vegeta wrote: »

Good debate this

Agreed. I think I see where you're coming from. I personally see it as just different things, done in different ways, but I think they can all be enjoyed equally for different reasons. I personally don't see much fieldcraft or anything in pegged pheasant shoots, on the part of the shooter anyway, but I still consider it hunting. That said, my own style would either be the above rabbit bashing, or taking a game bag, an assortment of cartridges and wandering off rough shooting, see what I can find in various places. Not really interested in huge bags or anything, just not my style, but getting in some exercise, some sightseeing and hopefully some shooting will always suit me, and if I can put any modest meal on the table, so much the better.

Vegeta

The line is very blurred and like bunny shooter I love shooting and love watching dogs work so I'd find it very tough to give up either

Even in driven shooting usually the dogs are worked by dedicated folk and to a high standard so there is an aspect of dog handling in there.

I don't look down on any form of shooting/hunting as they all provide different challenges.

Best sport in the world really


bar bedroom gymnastics of course

cavan shooter

Vegeta wrote: »

The line is very blurred and like bunny shooter I love shooting and love watching dogs work so I'd find it very tough to give up either

Even in driven shooting usually the dogs are worked by dedicated folk and to a high standard so there is an aspect of dog handling in there.

I don't look down on any form of shooting/hunting as they all provide different challenges.

Best sport in the world really


bar bedroom gymnastics of course [/QUOTE

couldn't have said it better myself love hunting love shooting if only I worked for irish rail I could be called a "shunter":D

whitser

i've shot driven pheasants before and most of the men you find on a line would be "shooters" ie. its all about the shooting and making difficult shots. but the lad out after a rooster with a dog and gun would be a "hunter" in my book.
for me i'd rather do a days beating then shooting.
each to their own.
think with some its about making the shot and others its about the hunt. different strokes.....i know lads who shoot game but its the shooting and the gun they enjoy, they wouldnt go out into the fields without it. but for me its the hunt.

Hezz700

Jayus lads, this thread has gotten interesting since i last logged on here yesterday.

The simple fact is, if you head out in the pursuit of your choosen quarry with a predetermined plan of action you call call yourself "A Hunter".:)

If you just meander aimlessly about the countryside hoping some unfortunate criter to cross your path so you can blow it to kingdon come, you are "A shooter":(

Veg, What is this bedroom gymnastics you speak of??? Do they show it on Eurosports:D:D:D

Vegeta

Hezz700 wrote: »

Veg, What is this bedroom gymnastics you speak of??? Do they show it on Eurosports:D:D:D

Well I have seen some of it on Eurosport........wait no actually that was Eurothrash

Interesting stuff I'd say you'd like it, especially the womens paired events

whitser

ah yes the womens paired events, truly the sport of kings.

thehair

a rifle shooter learning to shoot at target in a field out to 150yards first
then about a year then i will go hunting fingers xxxx:pac:
i will have to get a new rifle. when do i tell the wife mmmm i know
after the cert for fullbore .223 and scope:D i might be hunting all the time
yes after she see the bill for the fullbore rifle i will be fu-c-k-ed out of
the house full time hunting for my own food:eek:

irish setter

whitser wrote: »

i've shot driven pheasants before and most of the men you find on a line would be "shooters" ie. its all about the shooting and making difficult shots. but the lad out after a rooster with a dog and gun would be a "hunter" in my book.
for me i'd rather do a days beating then shooting.
each to their own.
think with some its about making the shot and others its about the hunt. different strokes.....i know lads who shoot game but its the shooting and the gun they enjoy, they wouldnt go out into the fields without it. but for me its the hunt.

my sentiments exactly. just like in bedroom gymnastics its all about the climax, be that the dog on point or the difficult shot or whatever