DVD ripping Legal?

congo_90

*edit**
Ok my sister has asked if i can make a copy of her wedding dvd. While i'm not sure of the legal issues i figured because it is her wedding dvd, She owns it and also because it is her in it there shouldn't be an issue. Do i need to Ask the production company permission first? The copy is for personal use not for mass distribution ie; not for sale shown in a public place.

I searched boards but couldn't find anything relevant.

Any advice is appreciated
I am not looking for actual legal advice to go against charters (forgot to read before hand) just a 'rough idea' of where i stand.. (sorry mods)

aidan_walsh

The way it works in other countries, and it may be similar here, is that a work like this is a commissioned work and thus the copyright belongs to your sister and her husband, not to the company who shot the video.

That said, I am not a lawyer and could yet be told that I am wrong.

congo_90

Just one more thing... I cant fully remember but i thought i saw during the dvd a 'copyright' for the production team though i'm not sure. Thanks for the advice. Will bear it in mind

Sam Kade

There is no such thing as a copyright for wedding dvd's. Take one look at ebay and see all the pirate dvd's being sold, I reported one seller to the lawyer of a certain tv series a month back and he couldn't stop them. I am not saying that you can sell priate dvd on ebay I am just saying how hard it is to stop them selling.

congo_90

Sam Kade wrote: »

There is no such thing as a copyright for wedding dvd's. Take one look at ebay and see all the pirate dvd's being sold.

but it wouldn't be piracey because nobody is making a loss of earnings etc off it.
Also it won't be sold, merely used for private use.

Pines

congo_90 wrote: »

but it wouldn't be piracey because nobody is making a loss of earnings etc off it.
Also it won't be sold, merely used for private use.

The situation is exactly the same as the other thread regarding CDs - there's no exception for private copying. The fact that there's no commercial sale does not affect the queston of infringement, though it has a bearing on the penalties (piracy on a commercial scale is a criminal offence as well as a civil matter of infringement).

Just to correct two points made above:

Sam Kade wrote:

There is no such thing as a copyright for wedding dvd's.

While it may be true that it can be difficult to enforce copyright against sellers on eBay, there most definitely is copyright for wedding DVDs - the film is a copyright work, and the sound recording is another copyright work. Copying the DVD will infringe both rights unless you have the permission of the copyright holders ... which leads on to:

Aidan Walsh wrote:

The way it works in other countries, and it may be similar here, is that a work like this is a commissioned work and thus the copyright belongs to your sister and her husband, not to the company who shot the video.

As reasonable as this sounds, it's not the case in Ireland. The owners of the copyright in a film are the producer and director jointly, and the owner of copyright in the sound recording is the producer of the recording. (For a wedding DVD the same person may have done all three jobs). Irish law grants no rights to the commissioner. Unless there is an agreement that the copyright is assigned to the happy couple, it unfortunately isn't and they have to get permission (strictly speaking) to make a copy.

Incidentally, as anyone who's tried to get extra negatives of their professional wedding photos may know, this was always the same for wedding photos. You paid a commission to the photographer, and were given an album at an agreed cost, but the photographer kept the negatives and most would not give hand them over under any circumstances, simply so they could keep control of the right to print copies (at a premium pricec, of course). In recent years, recognising the ease of scanning, digitizing and reprinting, some photographers are allowing you to buy the copyright and get the original digital files on CD to print as many times as you like. But unless they do agree to assign copyright, they own it despite having been commissioned.

seamus

It depends on the nature of the copyright. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but the DVD may not have to say, "This copyright is for private use only....etc" for such a stipulation to be implied. That is, the couple are allowed to view and display the DVD privately. They are also permitted (by law) to make a copy (in any format) for private display, provided that they copy is destroyed soon afterwards.
Theoretically you could argue that this includes making a copy to lend to friends for a day or two. Making a copy for permanent distribution to friends/family however would be essentially republishing the works without the copyright holders' consent, which is a breach of copyright.

Chances are the company gave them a price on "The video will cost X and subsequent copies of the video will cost Y".

Sam Kade

Pines wrote: »

While it may be true that it can be difficult to enforce copyright against sellers on eBay, there most definitely is copyright for wedding DVDs - the film is a copyright work, and the sound recording is another copyright work. Copying the DVD will infringe both rights unless you have the permission of the copyright holders ... which leads on to:

It's legal to copy any dvd for your own use. eg if you copied a dvd you bought. It's when you sell them for a profit that it becomes illegal. Why would you want to sell a copied dvd of your wedding?

Victor

Sam Kade wrote: »

Why would you want to sell a copied dvd of your wedding?

Irrelevant - it is that the person who would sell DVD copies - the photographer / cameraman is losing out on the oppurtunity of a sale.

Sam Kade

Victor wrote: »

Irrelevant - it is that the person who would sell DVD copies - the photographer / cameraman is losing out on the oppurtunity of a sale.

So if you sold copies of your wedding (why you would this I don't know) the cameraman can sue you. Isn't that what I said that it becomes illegal when you start selling them.

Victor

Even copying and giving them away would be breaching copyright.

Two scenarios.
* Wedding A. Couple buy album and get a complimentary DVD. €2,000.
* Wedding B. Couple buy album and get a complimentary DVD and 50 DVDs for friends and family. €2,500.

If Couple A breach copyright and knock off their own DVDs, they are doing the copyright holder out of €500.

Pines

Victor wrote: »

Even copying and giving them away would be breaching copyright.

Two scenarios.
* Wedding A. Couple buy album and get a complimentary DVD. €2,000.
* Wedding B. Couple buy album and get a complimentary DVD and 50 DVDs for friends and family. €2,500.

If Couple A breach copyright and knock off their own DVDs, they are doing the copyright holder out of €500.

It's simpler than that: just copying the DVD is a breach of copyright. Whether you subsequently give the copies away for free, sell them, throw them down on the fire or bury them in a time capsule is irrelevant to the question of copyright infringement. Infringement has taken place at the moment of unauthorised reproduction.

The question of lost sales is relevant to the evaluation of damages, but not to the pure question of liability for copyright infringement.

If there was a requirement for the copyright owner to be "out of pocket" in some sense, then a copyright owner who always distributed his product for free would have no recourse to unauthorised copying, but of course he does. If I give my music/film away for free I can still take action against you for copying it.

pirelli

Pines wrote: »

If I give my music/film away for free I can still take action against you for copying it.

or any dvd for that matter.

I wonder ( to myself) if watching a movie stream (on a website) on divx is an offence if you later realise the movies is just out in extravision or the cinema.

I wonder would it be seperate to downloading and copying the pirate copy. From my understanding it is not an offence although it proabably should be.

the_syco

pirelli wrote: »

I wonder would it be seperate to downloading

No, as to view it, you download it. You may only be keeping the content for a short while, but you're still downloading it.

bd85

It's a sign of the times when somebody goes looking for a legal opinion when their sister asks them for a copy of her wedding video.

aidan_walsh

Be that as it may, its a good question and good to see that awareness of copyright is finally starting to penetrate.