Stopped by cops, told it was an offense not to carry my insurance cert

Run_to_da_hills

I was stopped by a cop and told it was an offense not to carry my insurance certificate in person while driving. I knew one had to carry a current drivers license but to also carry Insurance is new to me. Anyway he told me to produce within 10 days.

Steffano2002

It's not an offense at all. That's bullcr@p. Some members of the Garda really need to go back to training...

MargeS

License and tax disc is all that you are required to carry, afaik!

madrab

yep, not required to carry your insurance, but they can ask you to produce it at a local station

murphaph

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I was stopped by a cop and told it was an offense not to carry my insurance certificate in person while driving. I knew one had to carry a current drivers license but to also carry Insurance is new to me. Anyway he told me to produce within 10 days.

Another made-up-on-the-spot 'law' from AGS. If these guys knew the actual laws governing the public highway I'd be more impressed.

Oryx

Definitely not a legal requirement. But any of the 'real' bikers I know (as opposed to weekend bikers.:)) fold up their insurance and carry it in their jacket to avoid just that kind of stupid aggro.

Run_to_da_hills

KtK wrote: »

Definitely not a legal requirement. But any of the 'real' bikers I know (as opposed to weekend bikers.:)) fold up their insurance and carry it in their jacket to avoid just that kind of stupid aggro.

I would be lucky to have my insurance cert for two months in one piece if i was to carry it on person, a license barely lasts me two years before it falls apart.

Ghostrider117

Sounds like someone a bit wet behind the ears. It obviously wasn't a bike cop (at least I hope it wasn't!)

Just make sure you do produce it within the 10 days AND get the garda you produce it to to write a receipt (even on a blank page) and get them to put the date on it and the station stamp. I've seen loads of people who produced their documents receive summonses in due course because either the garda didn't put it into the book (pre pulse days) or didn't note it on properly and then the garda who stopped you thinks you didn't bother or you didn't actually have insurance.

Krusty_Clown

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would be lucky to have my insurance cert for two months in one piece if i was to carry it on person, a license barely lasts me two years before it falls apart.

I photocopy my insurance cert (reduced to around 25%) and throw it into the plastic sleeve with the license. It's almost illegible, but what the hell... If they really want to read it, they can squint.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

I was never once asked for my insurance cert in the 5 years i was driving bikes!

CrazyRabbit

My cert comes with a little insurance disk (like the tax disk) that fits nicely in the licence/holder. I always carry it, required or not. Saves me the hassle of having to produce it 'within 10 days' should the need arise.

CourierCollie

BrynW wrote: »

I was never once asked for my insurance cert in the 5 years i was driving bikes!

Yeah, I've only been asked for mine once in the last 5 years. And that was only 'cause I'd crashed into an unmarked Garda car outside a Garda station.:o

KTRIC

CourierCollie wrote: »

Yeah, I've only been asked for mine once in the last 5 years. And that was only 'cause I'd crashed into an unmarked Garda car outside a Garda station.:o

if you're going to do it, do it properly

Steffano2002

CourierCollie wrote: »

Yeah, I've only been asked for mine once in the last 5 years. And that was only 'cause I'd crashed into an unmarked Garda car outside a Garda station.:o

Classic!

Green_Martian

Im only a noob to biking so i always have my Ins docs and my Tax is in with my licence, which are all in my inside pocket

CourierCollie

Green_Martian wrote: »

Im only a noob to biking so i always have my Ins docs and my Tax is in with my licence, which are all in my inside pocket

Yeah, I always have my insurance cert with me, rather than give a Garda the satisfaction of making me produce it at a station.
I'm open to correction, but, I think your supposed to have your tax disc displayed on your bike( not in your pocket) even when its parked up. A minor point, in the overall scheme of things.

lord lucan

CourierCollie wrote: »

Yeah, I always have my insurance cert with me, rather than give a Garda the satisfaction of making me produce it at a station.
I'm open to correction, but, I think your supposed to have your tax disc displayed on your bike( not in your pocket) even when its parked up. A minor point, in the overall scheme of things.

by law,yes,you should have your tax disc displayed on your bike but i've been stopped at various checkpoints and produced it from my pocket where i have it in the clear pouch with my license. i've yet to be taken up on it or had a lecture on it. i don't like leaving a disc holder on the bike as the little toerags would take it just in spite and also the disc gets wrecked from the moisture that builds up inside it.

madrab

i have had 2 tax discs stolen of bike in the last few years, so i tend to keep them in my pocket

Esel

But....if the tax disc is in your pocket, you can't use it to obscure your registration!

Rainman1

Really surprised at this, I have been riding in Ireland for 25 years now and have never been asked for either my license or insurance, even at checkpoints, but in the UK, different story, continually harassed when riding and even had a cop in Wales stop me and accuse me of speeding and dangerous driving (I don't speed and hold a RoSPA gold cert), I eventually had to tell him to either produce the evidence and arrest me or F@*# off, he then told me "I was lucky this time" and shadowed me the whole way to the ferry, unbelievable. I actually have a lot of repect for the Gardai as, in my opinion anyway, they tend to leave you alone unless you give them a reason to stop you.

murphaph

Rainman1 wrote: »

Really surprised at this, I have been riding in Ireland for 25 years now and have never been asked for either my license or insurance, even at checkpoints, but in the UK, different story, continually harassed when riding and even had a cop in Wales stop me and accuse me of speeding and dangerous driving (I don't speed and hold a RoSPA gold cert), I eventually had to tell him to either produce the evidence and arrest me or F@*# off, he then told me "I was lucky this time" and shadowed me the whole way to the ferry, unbelievable. I actually have a lot of repect for the Gardai as, in my opinion anyway, they tend to leave you alone unless you give them a reason to stop you.

I have had the complete opposite experience. The Guards are amateurs who hardly know the basics of the road traffic act and amendments and hence you get "made up laws" being spouted all the time. They are too lazy to bother stopping bikes unless annoyed by a biker and then they retaliate. In north wales on the way to the ferry I ran out of juice just before a junction. North Wales police officer pulled in behind me with blue lights showing. I assumed he was going to be cross but he was just enquiring was I ok as it was a dangerous place to be broken down. Sound chap who realises that being a motorway police officer is more than just nicking people for speeding.

Rainman1

Yea, I think it's really down to personal experience on the road, a lad on another thread had a bad experience with a Guard, but thankfully won his case in court, which gives all of us some hope. When I lived in the UK, I found that the differences between regions enormous, with the best being Herts police, whose members would come out on Sundays to run Bike safe courses, which helped me get my RoSPA gold, but then when we ran into other regional forces further north, the difference was stark, being regularly pulled over and the bike scrutinised for the tiniest details that might lead to a fine, I was flabbergasted when a mate got done for not having the correct kite mark on his visor, it wasn't even a tinted visor. I find that the Guards here aren't quite that anal, but I don't disagree that the standard of riding is higher in the UK, our local guards both motorcycle and car, routinely drive over the speed limit, tailgate, drive vehicles with defective brake lights etc etc., but by the same token, tend to let me get on with my riding in peace, which is all I care about, but that said, it's all down to each persons individual experience.

SlabMurphy

I'm 99% sure a motorbiker does not need to carry either. I have got penalty points for speeding on the odd occasion , last time last November and if I remmeber rightly I had to produce both at the local station within 10 days or something. All you boys who have'nt been stopped and asked for license and insurance, must be good law abiding citizen's
And yes, the tax disc is for obscuring the number plate

yayamark

CourierCollie wrote: »

Yeah, I've only been asked for mine once in the last 5 years. And that was only 'cause I'd crashed into an unmarked Garda car outside a Garda station.:o

Oh u pulled a ktric! :D:pac:


SlabMurphy I'm 99% sure a motorbiker does not need to carry either. I have got penalty points for speeding on the odd occasion , last time last November and if I remmeber rightly I had to produce both at the local station within 10 days or something. All you boys who have'nt been stopped and asked for license and insurance, must be good law abiding citizen's
And yes, the tax disc is for obscuring the number plate


No your 100% wrong
Driving Licence is a must when driving in ireland. Insurance is no a must.

Luckycharm

Rainman1 wrote: »

Yea, I think it's really down to personal experience on the road, a lad on another thread had a bad experience with a Guard, but thankfully won his case in court, which gives all of us some hope. [/FONT][/COLOR]

That was me but to be honest that particular Lady garda seems to have a problem with Bikers as other bikers on here know her :mad: In general though I have found the Garda very polite and good.

Rainman1

Yes and you did us all a great service by taking this to court, I saw the results of anti-bike policing in North Wales, thoroughly heavy handed and unnecessary. I have found the standard of motorcycling in Ireland has improved dramatically in the last few years, particularly amongst people like yourself who commute to work,the accident statistics over the last few years also back this up, any anti-bike behaviour by those who are supposed to be making our lives safer needs to be tackled head on and I applaud you for doing exactly that.

finto

Had my insurance cert, license & CERT of Restriction in my jacket. Jacket got robbed from my house, now I cant drive the bike as I cant prove its restricted. Disaster

colm_c

finto wrote: »

Had my insurance cert, license & CERT of Restriction in my jacket. Jacket got robbed from my house, now I cant drive the bike as I cant prove its restricted. Disaster

The garage/company who restricted it will have a copy for legal reasons -- just get them to send you one.

robinph

I got asked for my insurance once but this was after being followed down the bus lane for a few minutes already by a police bike. He had clearly been radioing in my number plate as all he was interested in once he stopped me was the insurance. As my insurance renewal date was a couple of months after my tax renewal date their records showed that I didn't have any so that's all he was interested in, it just happend that I did have the insurance details on me that day though.

finto

colm_c wrote: »

The garage/company who restricted it will have a copy for legal reasons -- just get them to send you one.

Not a hope...If you knew where I got it restricted in Limerick you would understand. I might be able to track down the company in UK to see if they have a copy. But if I remember right we had to sign it and witness the cert in the shop on the day.

Hotblack Desiato

finto wrote: »

now I cant drive the bike as I cant prove its restricted. Disaster

There is NO requirement for you to prove your bike is restricted. Also a restriction cert isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Aftermarket restrictors have a strange habit of falling out once the piece of paper is obtained (assuming the restrictors actually went in in the first place...)

finto

ninja900 wrote: »

There is NO requirement for you to prove your bike is restricted. Also a restriction cert isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Aftermarket restrictors have a strange habit of falling out once the piece of paper is obtained (assuming the restrictors actually went in in the first place...)

Really? I was asked for it before at a tax checkpoint. He took a look at the 850 written on the side of the bike, then my provisional license and said "you shouldnt be driving this" I said it was restriced and he said "prove it"

colm_c

ninja900 wrote: »

There is NO requirement for you to prove your bike is restricted. Also a restriction cert isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Aftermarket restrictors have a strange habit of falling out once the piece of paper is obtained (assuming the restrictors actually went in in the first place...)

Thats bs, if you're asked if your bike is restricted you have to prove it -- either by the cert or someone checking out your bike. At a tax check they won't know how to check every bike but they'll be looking for the restriction cert -- either there and then or at the local station within a few days.

The offense is essentially driving without a license.

Rainman1

That place in Limerick must have a copy of your restriction cert, or if it was done in the UK, the company will have to have a record of the work done by law, find out where it was restricted and give them a bell.

pirate reject

Green_Martian wrote: »

Im only a noob to biking so i always have my Ins docs and my Tax is in with my licence, which are all in my inside pocket

Im almost 100% certain that you are required to display your tax on your bike at all times. This has proved to be a pain in the backside for me in th past because on more than one occasion I have had the disk robbed off the bike, but not displaying your tax could in theory lead to your bike being impounded. If you are concerned about theft enough to keep the disk on your person I would photocopy the disk and display the photocopy in the tax holder with the words 'Original with Rider' written in red ink across the photocopy. At least this will give you a fighting chance if some jobsworth cop or warden wants to give you a ticket

Green_Martian

pirate reject wrote: »

Im almost 100% certain that you are required to display your tax on your bike at all times. This has proved to be a pain in the backside for me in th past because on more than one occasion I have had the disk robbed off the bike, but not displaying your tax could in theory lead to your bike being impounded. If you are concerned about theft enough to keep the disk on your person I would photocopy the disk and display the photocopy in the tax holder with the words 'Original with Rider' written in red ink across the photocopy. At least this will give you a fighting chance if some jobsworth cop or warden wants to give you a ticket

Good shout on the photocopy of the tax disc, i might look into doing this as you never know if the bike is parked in town somewhere if you will get a ticket cos of non display of tax disc

colm_c

Green_Martian wrote: »

Good shout on the photocopy of the tax disc, i might look into doing this as you never know if the bike is parked in town somewhere if you will get a ticket cos of non display of tax disc

They can't give your bike a ticket unless you're on it! No way to attach it to the bike without the wind blowing it off.

pirate reject

Don't be so sure. A couple of years ago I got a ticket on my bike inside a waterproof self adhesive plastic envelope stuck to my tank. The bloody thing left a mark from the glue too.

colm_c

pirate reject wrote: »

Don't be so sure. A couple of years ago I got a ticket on my bike inside a waterproof self adhesive plastic envelope stuck to my tank. The bloody thing left a mark from the glue too.

Hope you got the fookers to pay for the mark that was left, I'd be raging -- it's essentially damage to personal property.

pirate reject

colm_c wrote: »

Hope you got the fookers to pay for the mark that was left, I'd be raging -- it's essentially damage to personal property.

Not a chance. They wouldnt even entertain the argument.

'Your own fault for leavin your bike there'

Big mutton headed *!@?

colm_c

cnuts.

Hotblack Desiato

finto wrote: »

Really? I was asked for it before at a tax checkpoint.

So what? Most Gardai have little idea of the laws specific to bikes. I've been asked for an insurance disk at a checkpoint, but the law doesn't require me to have one.

He took a look at the 850 written on the side of the bike, then my provisional license and said "you shouldnt be driving this"

That Garda is ignorant of the law, it specifies no CC limit.

I said it was restriced and he said "prove it"

That Garda is ignorant of the legal principle of 'innocent until proven guilty.' You are not required to prove the power output of your bike one way or the other. They can't touch you without a dyno run to prove the power output - a cert proves nothing. Even then, dynos differ and are not defined in law. Also how the weight is to be measured is not defined in law, taking the gross vehicle weight would make a large number of unrestricted bikes legal under power-to-weight ratio.

Also, there are bikes which do not require restriction in the first place - you can't prove you're restricted if you're NOT restricted, but still legal...

Now, at a checkpoint they CAN demand to see your road tax and licence (although not bike insurance), and can ask you to produce tax, insurance and licence at a Garda station later, but this is ONLY because there is specific legislation putting the onus on you to not only be licenced/taxed/insured but also to be able to prove that you are.

There is no such legislation in relation to restricted licences, you are not required to prove anything.

Hotblack Desiato

colm_c wrote: »

Thats bs, if you're asked if your bike is restricted you have to prove it -- either by the cert or someone checking out your bike.

This is totally incorrect. Certs have no legal value and prove nothing. Any guard who asks you to produce one either hasn't got a clue, or does, but is just trying to scare you.

Hotblack Desiato

Rainman1 wrote: »

That place in Limerick must have a copy of your restriction cert

If you mean the vehicle registry in Shannon, they do not keep any records of this at all.

If your bike is factory restricted, and so has a different model code than a non-factory-restricted one, you might be able to prove from your licencing cert that your bike was factory restricted, when it was delivered. But that's legally irrelevant, as you could have fitted the bits later to derestrict it. So it still proves nothing.

kowloon

Carry my tax disks and my licence in an inside pocket. Have never carried insurance. I don't remember ever having an insurance disk for a bike.
Not having the disk on the bike has never been an issue at checkpoints.

When the new m50 toll system comes in they might start stopping us for having the reg. obscured by the tax disk. (and for non-standard regs)

Rainman1

ninja900 wrote: »

If you mean the vehicle registry in Shannon, they do not keep any records of this at all.

No, read the previous posts, I was referring to the dealers in Limerick that organised the bike to be restricted, they must have a record of this work done and Shannon is in Clare not Limerick.

Esel

kowloon wrote: »

When the new m50 toll system comes in they might start stopping us for having the reg. obscured by the tax disk. (and for non-standard regs)

I'm pretty sure I read that bikes are going to be free under the new system.

kowloon

esel wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I read that bikes are going to be free under the new system.

Sweeeeeeeet!:D

Run_to_da_hills

esel wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I read that bikes are going to be free under the new system.

There is a lot of fast bikes around the city with tiny illegible reg plates I doubt if these guys will stop if there is no barrier .

aben3313

hi all, yeah if you checkout the ntr web site regarding barrier free tolling on M50 there is no mention of toll prices for bikes also if you use the m50 allready you can see that the cameras only log the front reg plate of vehicles so usless in logging bikes.