baggers???

mr.miagi

this is abit of a stupid question.....
but could someone explain the ther term bagger or sand bag???????? (reffering to thr RDF)

cp251

Pretty obvious and simple. When I was in the PDF tended to refer to us FCA as being only useful as sandbags to hide behind. This was a reference to our supposedly poor training and therefore our limited military usefullness. Frankly apart from few, particularly city based units. This was all too true.

Even my unit which tried very hard and often had a cadre of good PDF NCO's and access to PDF facilities and equipment. We were woefully underequipped and undertrained. We wore surplus combat uniforms of other countries or even boiler suits. We had limited tactical training, no mortar training, limited anti tank training etc etc. There wasn't the money for it. The cavalry unit had a 1930s armoured car or two in the 1980s and an AML 60.

Can't speak for the current RDF but I imagine the nickname has stuck.

mr.miagi

no no
im in the current RDF
we are quite well trained as far as i have seen
bu ill soon see as im waiting for my aplication to the PDF to be processed
hopefully ill get it:)

thanks

punchdrunk

my dad remembers one day on the parade ground when he was a regular that a commdt or some such got up and said
"I think the FCA are bloody brilliant,every soldier should have two one to clean his boots,and one to clean his rifle"

so that'll give you an idea of the opinion back in the mid 70's :eek:

arybvtcw0eolkf

punchdrunk wrote: »

my dad remembers one day on the parade ground when he was a regular that a commdt or some such got up and said
"I think the FCA are bloody brilliant,every soldier should have two one to clean his boots,and one to clean his rifle"

so that'll give you an idea of the opinion back in the mid 70's :eek:

Walter Mitty forum...

the GALL

Ill agree with that comment about hiding behind rds lads.
I was in the brugha about 8 years ago and there was these two pdf lads roaring out bagger/sandbag out one of the windows at me as I was walking by the square. Not one to take that lying down I found the BOS and reported it. Up the chain it went till I was standing in front of CS....... over the pNCO course (It turned out it was two of his).To make along story interesting he put the course on the square and revoked all passes till said offenders steppped forward about 15 mins later these two pte's are standing in front of me apolagising. They were standing at ease addressing an NCO (me) They got a dart off me for that and a dart from the CS. It was more a lesson in manners.
Two pNCO's insulting another branch of the defence forces not good for future unit's and as it turned out the two were exRDF. Im still laughing at the faces of the two PDF pNCO's having to stand to attention for a 'bagger'

minidazzler

Loverly that is. (To The Gall)

Riddle101

My dad told me that when he was a Recuit in the FCA almost 25 years ago his idea of an overnight exercise was going out till 7pm in the night and then returning to the barracks that evening to sleep there. The FCA didn't even camp out or anything 30 years ago. Nowadays i would say the PDF give us RDF lads a fare bit of respect, i have met a lot of PDF lads who are very respectful of us and see us as soldiers like them then sand baggers.

minidazzler

I have never felt respected by the PDF but I have felt OK around them.

I was shouted at by a PDF Sergeant in front of his 2 stars because I was doing what I was told to do. I was just 18 at the time and I was on my own but he seemed to want to show what a big man he was.

On the Flip side, I did a 24 hour Guard with some PDF lads and had a grand time. I didnt feel too uncomfortable and they relieved me when my time was up. It did help though that I have been living around the corner from one of them since I was a baby.

All in all I have found it to be the younger guys that call us Sand Bags with only a few of the older generation doing so.

It is a traditional thing. and also the younger guys dont notice how much better we have gotten in the last 10 years while the older guys do.

I kinda like the term it gives us character and its a name like. It better than just being a Reservist.
I did get given out to by an asshole of a corporal of mine the other day though when someone said.

"Where are the Sandbags?"

I obviously said "Theres about 30 of us here" and he says

"We get enough **** off the PDF with out our own saying stuff like that"

I then asked him what kind of **** he gets off the PDF and he couldnt answer. This is just an example of more people living in the Past.

Riddle101

minidazzler wrote: »

I have never felt respected by the PDF but I have felt OK around them.

I was shouted at by a PDF Sergeant in front of his 2 stars because I was doing what I was told to do. I was just 18 at the time and I was on my own but he seemed to want to show what a big man he was.

On the Flip side, I did a 24 hour Guard with some PDF lads and had a grand time. I didnt feel too uncomfortable and they relieved me when my time was up. It did help though that I have been living around the corner from one of them since I was a baby.

All in all I have found it to be the younger guys that call us Sand Bags with only a few of the older generation doing so.

It is a traditional thing. and also the younger guys dont notice how much better we have gotten in the last 10 years while the older guys do.

I kinda like the term it gives us character and its a name like. It better than just being a Reservist.
I did get given out to by an asshole of a corporal of mine the other day though when someone said.

"Where are the Sandbags?"

I obviously said "Theres about 30 of us here" and he says

"We get enough **** off the PDF with out our own saying stuff like that"

I then asked him what kind of **** he gets off the PDF and he couldnt answer. This is just an example of more people living in the Past.

Well since Sand Bagger is a term used for insulting an RDF lad i would say you're Corporal had a good reason to get on to you. Don't bring your whole unit down just because you're not insulted because some people might see that as not thinking about your comrades. You're also shown disrespect to you're fellow comrades because you've allowed your unit to become a laughing stock by the PDF, PDF lads wouldn't take to kind'ly to that stuff as well

arybvtcw0eolkf

Respect between the PDF and the RDF.

Lads I've wrote about this stuff here before, and I honestly think a lot these impressions of the PDF lads disrepecting RDF lads are presumed impressions.

As an example, in the dining hall.

I que for my grub with the RDF lads, try to engage some in conversation only to be met with a 'sh*t, one of them is trying to talk to me - what will I say' stare. They take their grub and shoot off over to an entirely different part of the dining hall, and won't mingle.

Lads (RDF lads here). Most of us serving with the PDF have also served in the FCA/RDF (my time it was the FCA) and there's nothing we like better than to chat to lads from our own old units.

I think with the re-org of the FCA/RDF some units have lost a sense of their identity. I know for me I haven't a damn clue where my old unit went (B'Coy 7th Bn). And that as probably pushed the gap between units further apart.

But I can promise you RDF guys that apart from some snotty younger lads NO ONE looks down their noses at you in the barracks.

Btw, the 'snotty younger lads' - they piss us all off, but their just trying to fit in pretending to be 'old sweats' - don't pay them any heed.

Borneo Fnctn

If you do your thing with a bit of confidence you will not get any slaggings. Walk with your head high and a bit of a swagger. If you go all quiet and shy every time you see a black beret, you're more likely to get called a sandbag.

cp251

My dad told me that when he was a Recuit in the FCA almost 25 years ago his idea of an overnight exercise was going out till 7pm in the night and then returning to the barracks that evening to sleep there. The FCA didn't even camp out or anything 30 years ago. Nowadays i would say the PDF give us RDF lads a fare bit of respect, i have met a lot of PDF lads who are very respectful of us and see us as soldiers like them then sand baggers.

I don't know about your Dad's unit, but mine did camp out quite a bit. Slept in a foxhole once or twice, slept in a forest with only a ground sheet/poncho and in a half ruined barrack full of sheep do do. But then my old company was a bit progressive and always tried to push the boundaries. We were always up the earliest, back the latest and pushed the hardest. I thought that was what army life was about and enjoyed it. I only gradually realised that other units didn't have the same attitude. That I think it is down to lazy officers and NCOs.

To be honest I have a similar experiences to Minidazzler. I have to say though that any derogatory nickname loses it's sting when you adopt it. I don't remember being particularly offended when they called me that. In fact like Minidazzler we joked about it and called ourselves sandbags. If you go around being po faced and offended by stuff like that in the army then maybe you should think of another way to spend your spare time.

On another point, perhaps the the old slime green beret should be retired and a return made to the black beret. I always felt that the green beret was an attempt to ensure that PDF members were never mistaken for FCA. Perhaps it's time for those distinctions to be erased now the RDF is expected to raise it's standard closer to the PDF. Any thoughts?

minidazzler

cp251, thanks for the cote of confidence there.

To the point on the Beret, I think we should keep our own one. It is part of our Identity and even though most non-military minded people don't know the difference I like to know that some will know. It also causes less awkwardness because if you do come across a PDF guy who doesnt realise the potential that the RDF has and he says "Oh, what Unit are you with?" Then you tell him an RDF one it would just turn into an awkward solence followed by a "See ya later"!! Also in some places such as the Eastern Brigade AFAIK the Black Beret has to be earned.(i.e. you dont get it until you pass out as a 2 star) That would not work well if an RDF person can walk in off the street and get one.

On the Flipside I think that if we were to change Beret Colours then maybe if we put a Green Band around the end of the Beret(The bit that circles the head) to make yourself Identifiable as an RDF person.

punchdrunk

Mairt wrote: »

Walter Mitty forum...

Mairt my dad was a flight Sgt with the aer corps,no walting here

arybvtcw0eolkf

punchdrunk wrote: »

Mairt my dad was a flight Sgt with the aer corps,no walting here

I don't care what your Dad was.

***late edit***

Sorry, my reply (with hindsight) sounds a bit harsh..

I'm an ol' sweat like your Dad, and there's nothing better we like than to tell tall tales about 'back in our day'.

There was a time, back in the 70s, when the FCA had the black beret, the green one only came in the late 70s.
at that time, the PDF had the modern dress uniform while the FCA still had the old British army battle dress uniform.(or something similar).

cp251

Your right Dursey. When I joined the green beret had only begun to be issued. Some guys got black berets which had been returned. Some NCOs were even wearing black berets without the red patch which was prior issue. But the green beret was so unpopular that many guys acquired black ones. I dyed a spare green beret black and sewed on a red felt square. Eventually I actually found a PDF beret lying on the road, believe it or not. Fell off the back of a lorry literally complete with staybrite badge. Someone must have poked his head out too far.

But around then, orders came down from on high. ALL personnel must wear green berets, no more black - period. So that was the end.

The uniform wasn't like the British battledress. That would have been a good uniform. No this piece of crap was a badly fitting, unsoldierly mess. You could get it to fit as long as you didn't move. When you marched it lifted out of the web belt, (which we had to buy ourselves) and looked a mess. The trousers had button flies. The jacket had a closed collar but we were allowed to wear a shirt and tie underneath. They could be bought in Burtons and were officer type shirts and ties. I still have that jacket. Don't know why, I kept it. The army sure as hell didn't want it back. It was a complete throwback. Add that to the fact that we were equipped with WW2 style .303s and Brens and British Mark 2 helmets. It felt like we were re-enacting WW2

How we laughed, when people shouted FCA, Free Clothes Association. We bought our own web equipment, shirts and ties, jumpers, (Dunnes Stores, bottle green), web equipment, Combat jackets and trousers. Free? I cost me more than a hundred quid to equip myself properly. That was when a hundred quid was a couple of weeks pay.

do you remember the full time FCA?

In the 70's there was a shortage of lads in the PDF, and members of the FCA had the chance to go full time,
They became attached to the PDF, and effectively became members of the permanent army.
There was all sorts of hassle when it was stood down, the compromise was that they had to do a conversion course, and t/f with their rank to the PDF, think in happened in 1980 or 81.
I remember in my unit there was a couple of lads who t/f ed, one became part of the pdf cadre to the 20th.

cp251

I remember it well. I gave some consideration to going full time FCA myself. But I always felt they got the worst of whatever was going around. You were neither one thing nor another. One guy from my company went full time and later t/f into the PDF but it was a bit messy. He could be the guy you mention in the 20th.