Shortstacking High-Stakes NL

Shivverz

I remember a while back watching a guy called maraco ( i think) on Prima Poker who would sit at the 20/40 tables with 400. I got talking with him and he told me he had turned 5k into 95k in 6 weeks. This sounds off the wall, but I followed him for a while and he seemed to actually have a good win rate.
What are your views on this tactic, how is it applied etc..?

Rb

There's very few really good shortstackers at NLHE.

TommyGunne

I can see how it could be possible. Remember reading of aejones "spite calls" vs short stackers and wondering why people thought you couldn't make money at it. There are a few very good shortstackers, but their winrate would obv still be much much less than that of fullstack players. The winrate proportional to their roll is probably much of a muchness though. Variance per roll being greater obv.


Edit: The good shortstackers eventually become good fullstackers though. People also underestimate bankroll requirement for shortstacking as there is much more variance.

Edit 2: I wouldn't have believed that guy.

dvdfan

Yeah also at higher stakes where the pools are smaller regs will quickly adjust to the shortstackers range and their edge will be reduced an awful lot. At lower stakes people wouldnt adjust that much but then the quality of players are so bad that youd probably make more full stacking a lower level without the insane boredom.

Just try it for an hour even 8 tabling and youll be pulling your hair out, theres no skill just waiting for the top 6% of hands and push them or in late position or in the blinds maybe 10-12% of the top hands.

As Tommy said the variance is going to be huge

mormank

oh there is no buzz quite like having a big stack, around 500 BB's and making the right decision on the turn to push cos you just know he is foldin whatever he has.

short stackin is for guys who have no soul imo...

[nicK]

mormank wrote: »

oh there is no buzz quite like having a big stack, around 500 BB's and making the right decision on the turn to push cos you just know he is foldin whatever he has.

lol, hand history please..
how in hell do you get 500 bb's in on a turn?

incidently, i generally don't like to see threads about shortstacking.. it gives people crazy ideas which they would have never thought of and introduces more of their kind to the game, which isn't fun imo..

jbravado

[nicK] wrote: »

incidently, i generally don't like to see threads about shortstacking.. it gives people crazy ideas which they would have never thought of and introduces more of their kind to the game, which isn't fun imo..

So?Are shortstackers not generally considered the absolute value in the grand scheme of things?

TommyGunne

jbravado wrote: »

So?Are shortstackers not generally considered the absolute value in the grand scheme of things?

Yes! But if the particular short-stackers you refer to were playing full stacks there would be at least 2x the value! And there are a hell of a lot of nits who play 20BB IIRC. Solid long term losers but really annoying!

mormank

[nicK] wrote: »

lol, hand history please..
how in hell do you get 500 bb's in on a turn?

incidently, i generally don't like to see threads about shortstacking.. it gives people crazy ideas which they would have never thought of and introduces more of their kind to the game, which isn't fun imo..

when there is 800 BB's in the pot of course!!! back when poker first was introduced to the back alleys and basements of galway and limerick it was not unheard of for these kind of pots to be a reular occurance believe you me!!

[nicK]

jbravado wrote: »

So?Are shortstackers not generally considered the absolute value in the grand scheme of things?

yeah, obviously a lot of them are terrible which is great..
but their shortstacks force you to constantly adjust your game.. examples include not being able to open a wide range in late position when there's a shortstack in the blinds and not being able to 3bet light in position against wide openers, there's plenty more..

when only playing a few tables it's fine and you can narrow down their ranges pretty quickly but when multitabling (16) it's fairly tough to keep account of them all so in short, yes, i'd far rather have semi-competant fullstacks at my tables than shortstack donks..

[nicK]

mormank wrote: »

when there is 800 BB's in the pot of course!!! back when poker first was introduced to the back alleys and basements of galway and limerick it was not unheard of for these kind of pots to be a reular occurance believe you me!!

lol, as soon as you mentioned it was live i completely understood..

The_Chopper

mormank wrote: »

when there is 800 BB's in the pot of course!!! back when poker first was introduced to the back alleys and basements of galway and limerick it was not unheard of for these kind of pots to be a reular occurance believe you me!!

Them Galway games especially - guys putting in 500BB approx 1500 with J8 on 844 boards, lol

RoadSweeper

cucumber88 is a hero

[nicK]

RoadSweeper wrote: »

cucumber88 is a hero

ha, think my bro plays with him a tonne, suppose to be insane.. he plays $100nl yeah?

btw, as i said before, only room for one of our avatars on this forum, when are you gonna accept my hu grudge match for avatars?

HoLLLLLaments

The_Chopper wrote: »

Them Galway games especially - guys putting in 500BB approx 1500 with J8 on 844 boards, lol

was it good?

The_Chopper

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

was it good?

Nope another guy called off 500BB with 99 (good call i guess) turn is an 8

Pretty standard for Galway back then.

My fav one was a 4k pot (blinds 1/3) both playing 2k. On a board of 10 8 6 with approx 150 in pre they get it all in. One player has 97 and the other KK - the board comes turn 8 and river K. Nobody even blinks as this was so standard back then.

HoLLLLLaments

The_Chopper wrote: »

Nope another guy called off 500BB with 99 (good call i guess) turn is an 8

Pretty standard for Galway back then.

My fav one was a 4k pot (blinds 1/3) both playing 2k. On a board of 10 8 6 with approx 150 in pre they get it all in. One player has 97 and the other KK - the board comes turn 8 and river K. Nobody even blinks as this was so standard back then.

its tough to get pairs

The_Chopper

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

its tough to get pairs

Na pairs were easy - getting dealt 2 suited cards was the trick to that game

ianmc38

sammy the shortstackers are one of the reasons the games are so horrendous. i have to turn down about 100 shortstackers a day when playing hu as theyre just so tilting. double up then hit and run.

RoadSweeper

[nicK] wrote: »

ha, think my bro plays with him a tonne, suppose to be insane.. he plays $100nl yeah?

btw, as i said before, only room for one of our avatars on this forum, when are you gonna accept my hu grudge match for avatars?

yea, think he's down to 50nl now not sure, but he's up in database.

Loads comes up on him when ya google him.

I'll play you HU if you steak me.

cardshark202

ianmc38 wrote: »

sammy the shortstackers are one of the reasons the games are so horrendous. i have to turn down about 100 shortstackers a day when playing hu as theyre just so tilting. double up then hit and run.

lol you tilthead

mormank

The_Chopper wrote: »

Them Galway games especially - guys putting in 500BB approx 1500 with J8 on 844 boards, lol

lol. ah the good old days eh??? before all this talk of hand ranges and fold equity...back when two pair was two pair and men had balls!!!