Irish Mentality To Buying Classic Cars(or Anything).

johnf2020

Anybody who went to Durrow will agree that it indeed was a great show(as always).It was my first time to bring a car to a show with a view to selling it,and indeed there was a great interest in it. You never get tired of showing off your car and always gives you a bit of a buzz when people start telling stories about whe their father,uncle ,next door neighbour etc etc had one.
Unfortunately ther is another problem, when somebody asks about your car!! You know the type,,he walks up,hands in pockets,kicks a tyre etc etc. He asks you about it,price etc
You tell a guy how much you want for it-- he laughs,he says you are mad,,,would rather buy one for half nothing,indeed he knows where he can take one away for nothing,,then expect to restore it with paper and filler for 2 grand.Then when he realises that he connot,he does the best he can and flogs it on to the next poor sucker.Frankly people are getting tired of this carry on.....Nobody want sh1t anymore.
I know that I will probably ruffle a few feathers,,,,but at the end of the day people will always pay for quality,,fact of life


YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

S.I.R

i and many people i know have no problem buying " classics " but either the car is straight and correctly priced or the seller is a f***-**** trying to shift a bnager


either way , i agree you get what you pay for but theres plenty of choice , if for example seller a has a straight mini no rust , no filler for 4k , ill offer 3.5 , he says no , go to then ext one like that for same price and keep going till i get one for that price...


" thats the way the cookie crumbles. "

also im sick of classic car owners thinkingthere cars mint , it might be clean and work ok but if its so mint why do they spend months trying to sell em ??

really annoys me that people can be that stupid :mad:

johnf2020

What are you saying?

mike65

I saw in the pix fom Durrow some had the for sale signs out, was much buisness being done? Classic cars owners are the same as everyone else - some buyers will never come close to making a serious offer while some sellers are chancers/clueless.

Mike.

johnf2020

I feel that there was a lack of money there yesterday....
I had the Renault 16 there for sale which is probaly the only one in Ireland for sale. Another comment on another forum said that it was star of the show(even I wouldn't say that).I did speak to alot of people about it,,but I dont think the money was there.
Many people reckoned it was worth ever penny!

johnf2020

I do Agree to some extent about the fact that many classic car owners have a higher opinion of there classic than of reality,but what I mean is that many people cannot see the difference between a 3 grand car and a 6 grand one just because it looks good from 10 yards!

3ps

you never know with car shows.

last year I was at Durrow with my '72 Merc. I had one group of 4-5 lads spend quite a bit of time with it poking around but then they just left.

A few weeks later I got a reply to my ad on ebay classifieds and they guy bought it sight unseen but I'm pretty sure from comments made that the lads saw my car, thought he would like it, inspected it and then recommended it to him.

cantdecide

I know your frustrations, OP. In Ireland, people seem to have no concept of value when it comes to motoring.

I've not had a classic yet but I know you can buy a ball of crap for, say, X and buy a minter for 2(X), even though the latter would have the cost of 4 or 5(X) spent on it.

Equally, you can buy yokes at mint price in poor condition where the owners have the rose coloured spectactles on. This is because they may have spent just 3(X) on it, they want the mint prices for it even though there wasn't an uncut corner in the project.

In other words, there's often a lack of realism in people's estimation of what a classic is worth. My dad had this when he bought an old boat- I did it- I want the kudos, didn't actually mean I fixed it- it's done forever. Everything he did had to be re-done properly.

Dusty1609

The one that bugs me is the "what's the least you'll take for it?" question.

I have a few classics for sale and the amount of calls I get from people and this is the first question! They don't ask about condition or history or anything relevant.

I normally refuse to discuss it and tell them to view the car first then we can talk money - off course I never hear from them again - Dreamers..... :mad:


Regarding the Mint cars vs Cars for restoration, I think a large percentage of would be classic car owners have no concept of what is involved in a proper restoration and therefore the costs involved.

What is it they say, "buy the best you can afford, it will save you money in the long run."

PS John, I saw your Renault, looks fabulous.

carchaeologist

Dusty1609 wrote: »

Regarding the Mint cars vs Cars for restoration, I think a large percentage of would be classic car owners have no concept of what is involved in a proper restoration and therefore the costs involved.

What is it they say, "buy the best you can afford, it will save you money in the long run."

Agreed, if you are not mechanically minded, or you havent got the garage space to restore a car its much easier to buy the best you can,and keep it in good shape than buy a dog to restore, its hard to keep the enthusiasm going when you are scraping off underseal in the cold!!

junkyard

I could write a book on this subject tbh. I used to import the odd classic a few years ago and the public would break your heart, they'd want to call to see it at the most unusual times, then arrive a couple of hours late anyway and all the while keep you waiting with a phone call to tell you they wouldn't be much longer, then the car you'd have would be the wrong colour, spec, engine size etc., etc., even though you would have told them all the details in the first place anyway. Then if you had a very good car they wouldn't pay the money, if you had a car needing a bit of work they'd write it off as a piece of junk. Needless to say I wouldn't bother trying to sell a classic car here to make a profit ever again, it's a complete waste of time and very frustrating. My advice is advertise it on Classic Car Mart or similar or one of the clubs websites. A case and point, I had a 1967 250 SL for sale about 4 or 5 years ago, advertised it everywhere, Autotrader, Carzone, Buy and Sell and even some newspapers, the Examiner and the Irish Times, loads of people came from near and far to see it, the car needed work but was driving well and looked ok too, I used it on a regular basis and it was always admired. I had every expert in the land telling me this and that, the car was only worth breaking or worth half my asking price of 8k euros. Anyway I put the car on Classic Car Mart for free with an asking price of 10K euros but they put it down as 10k sterling, got a phone call from a man in London about two weeks later at 6am on a Saturday to know would the car drive back to the UK, I explained what needed to be done to the car and told him it would drive there and that I used it regularly, by 3pm that evening the car sold for 9.5 sterling and was on it's way to it's new home. The moral of the story as far as I'm concerned about selling cars here in Ireland is unless it's a Ford Escort or a Morris Minor the general public are afraid of their s**te to buy anything else for fear of the car needing a bit of work or some of their expert buddies telling them they were caught. I couldn't be ars*d trying to deal with them anymore needless to say and quite a few other car dealers would be of the same opinion as me.

mike65

Actually I think the real moral is always advertise in Classic Car Mart! Quids in.

Mike.

johnf2020

Well thank god somebody gets my point--ALLELUIA! ;)AMEN

Renotec

junkyard wrote: »

The moral of the story as far as I'm concerned about selling cars here in Ireland is unless it's a Ford Escort or a Morris Minor the general public are afraid of their s**te to buy anything else.......

If I may give my farthings worth (age showing).
Back in the days when all the classics were everyday vehicles people had the very same attitude. In general the majority of people simply didn't buy Fiats because they believed they always broke down. People who bought Renaults or French cars said they rusted & brokedown. But if you bought a Ford, Toyota, Vw bug or even a moggie minor you had a car for life.
Oil changes!... " She would if she got it".
Brakes! " whats wrong with the ones that are in it"
Spark Plugs! " Theres nothing wrong with the ones that are in her. She starts first tip every time!"
And J*S*S if you threw a coat of fresh paint and waxed the underside it would be said that "She must have been a right -off if you had to do all that work to IT"

So... that has evolved into is an underlying stigma that the car is now in an even worst off state if you had to have all that repair work done to it. Selling cars (now classics) in the early 70's with alll that lovely work done to them caused a mental block in the general public which has been passed on as a somewhat cultural thing. The general public has little understanding to what it takes money & hour wise today to put a vehicle on the road. If you even gave your classic away someone would say "there is something wrong with that car! probably on HP or stolen".

I fully understand where John is coming from with his original post. In the world of today people must pay the price of quality. The punter you require is a rare breed and is not likely to be native. When you find him/her you will know as price will not be the deciding factor in the sale.

v300

Regarding it being the car of the show, well I would agree.

It really is breathtakingly beautiful condition.

BrianD3

Well I agree with a lot of the points but there is fault on the side of both sellers and buyers. People in this country like to think of themselves as "cute hoors" so they can brag down the pub about how little they paid for something (or if selling how much they got for it) I see this with many things - houses as well as cars, even when someone goes on a holiday they're more interested in telling everyone how little they paid for the flight rather than how much they enjoyed their holiday.

You'll get sellers who have been trying to sell a house for 2 years but will not budge on the price. You have classic cars left to rot in gardens and fields sommtimes because of sentimental attachment but other times because someone has a way inflated idea of the value of it.

Dades

I think BrianD3 has a point, too.

Many bring a half decent car in from the UK and then expect to sell it for the same price a similar model is advertised for on carzone. They then realise the same cars have been on sale at that overinflated price for a year. I sold my first classic at a loss (if I include shipping) after 2 yrs. But I saved at least the equivalent in car tax and depreciation and loved every mile.

In short, for every johnf2020 selling a genuine mint classic, there's 10 punters trying to make a profit on the one they thought they'd got for a song.

prospect

While I do agree with the OP and most other posters onthis thread, I also would be inclined to sit on the other side of the fence.

I bought a classic recently. I have a strict budget for purchase, improvements and running costs.

Now, we all know that the best option is to buy the best car for your budget. Often the cars I found were either well above, or slightly above my budget. But I would not let that stop me making enquiries and offers. You would be mad to just offer the asking price, there is always room to haggle. And the way I look at it, the more I could save on buying the right car, the more I could invest in making that car even better when I owned it.

johnf2020

Well guys after listening to both sides of the argument,there are obviously people who feel very strongly about this subject also.
OK---Everybody should be open to sensible offers on their car
The guy who puts a "No Offers" sign on his car is not living in the real world(or Ireland anyway).
But their is no excuse for the guy who laughs at an asking price----Just say "not for me I'm afraid" .

I suppose at the end of the day,this is basically a nation of Begrudgers,,,kick him whens he is down,,,try and kick him down when he is up!!! if that makes sence.

Its the same at car shows---Instead of Isn't that a nice colour,,,or isn't that unique,,,you get,, ,,,and we are all guilty

---

Its that a **** colour,,thats the wrong interior,,Its not a genuine Irish car which is a good one. What is a genuine Irish car? Bar a few Irish assembled cars from decades ago,,they all come out of the one factory.

I//WE could go on_____________________________________!

BrianD3

I can understand the "genuine Irish car" thing though, I find cars with original Irish regs more appealing than imports, probably they have greater nostalgia appeal and local history associated with them. At the same time, someone who looks down on/insults an imported car because its an import is an idiot IMO.

carchaeologist

BrianD3 wrote: »

I can understand the "genuine Irish car" thing though, I find cars with original Irish regs more appealing than imports, probably they have greater nostalgia appeal and local history associated with them. At the same time, someone who looks down on/insults an imported car because its an import is an idiot IMO.

Agreed, i find the original irish that little bit more appealing for the same reasons.Its the import stuff on irish taxbooks that i dont agree with fully, i know why its done, but the car isnt what its supposed to be, and what about the next owner who thinks he is buying an irish car.

ianobrien

Maybe this http://search.autotrader.ie/www/cars_advert?country=IE&modelexact=1&make=Datsun&model=&keywords=&min_pr=&max_pr=&min_year=&max_year=&source=&currency=EUR&county_list=&sort=20&SUBMIT.x=59&SUBMIT.y=1&id=200813188419529 could be used as an example for both sides of the debate (quick profit versus the genuine thing)

mark_eire

I agree with Johnf2020,
I bought a 1990 bmw m3 recently which I brought to Durrow last week, I gave a lot of money for the car (probably 4/5k more than I could have got a less well maintained,less mint m3 for)
However, I still think the car was great value for money as everywhere I take the car I get great comments and general interest in the car and it's a car I've always wanted since I was young watching them as touring cars, most people would ask how much did you pay for it etc, probably expecting me to say something like 4 or 5 grand however the reality is 4/5 times that,
True car enthusiasts respect the 'real' value of classic cars and would pay that if genuinely interested in buying the car, but, tyre-kickers just want to know out of nosey-ness and then try ridicule you for paying 'stupid' money for the car,
Let them go and buy 'the one down the road' for a lot cheaper and they'll soon realise why a mint classic is worth all the extra money!!

I also agree John that your car was the car of the show.......beautiful!!

Rant over.......

Sids Not

The missing word here is "GREED"..that is what its all about in Ireland..IMHO...People who sell classics are down there with druggies and joyriders..no offence to any druggies here,,:)...but it realllly grinds my gears when i see dealers AND individuals selling cars for vastly over inflated prices just so they can make a killing out of some poor rose tinted glass wearing gobsh**e...to them its just the next big craze....i'm speaking from experience ,when i had none...my first classic was a papier mache and enamel death trap, only he lived in Donegal and I in Wicklow i would have delivered it back to him through his rear enterance.:mad:
Nope i'd never buy one here again, my current was bought through ebay, the guy was honest in his description and keeps in touch...i knew it wasnt a minter and needed work and i wasnt dissapointed...
You do get what you pay for but i wont give these scum my hard earned when i know what they have paid for it..
Lastly, it seems a lot of people in classic land dont keep their cars, why? is it that when the first thing goes wrong they remember why they got rid of their "classics" all those years ago.....or is it that the car clashes with their new Armani shoes,,?:eek:
Theres just too many posers driving around in classics these days..IMHO..:rolleyes:

kona

Sids Not wrote: »

The missing word here is "GREED"..that is what its all about in Ireland..IMHO...People who sell classics are down there with druggies and joyriders..no offence to any druggies here,,:)...but it realllly grinds my gears when i see dealers AND individuals selling cars for vastly over inflated prices just so they can make a killing out of some poor rose tinted glass wearing gobsh**e...to them its just the next big craze....i'm speaking from experience ,when i had none...my first classic was a papier mache and enamel death trap, only he lived in Donegal and I in Wicklow i would have delivered it back to him through his rear enterance.:mad:
Nope i'd never buy one here again, my current was bought through ebay, the guy was honest in his description and keeps in touch...i knew it wasnt a minter and needed work and i wasnt dissapointed...
You do get what you pay for but i wont give these scum my hard earned when i know what they have paid for it..
Lastly, it seems a lot of people in classic land dont keep their cars, why? is it that when the first thing goes wrong they remember why they got rid of their "classics" all those years ago.....or is it that the car clashes with their new Armani shoes,,?:eek:
Theres just too many posers driving around in classics these days..IMHO..:rolleyes:

OTT???

yes greed is a big part, but if some poser eejit will pay 4 times the price, then why not?? look at classic minis?? the prices in this country are a joke! but there are eejits there who will pay 8g for them!
then probably pay 8g more for bodywork and engine work!
i got mine from england myself, 1/4 the price of here and the best mini ive ever seen tbh.

but what the lads said above about irish mentality and the way they think their ****box is gold is 100% spot on.

Dades

Sids Not wrote: »

Lastly, it seems a lot of people in classic land dont keep their cars, why?

Why shouldn't an enthusiast change their car every so often to try something different? Most of us can only keep one on the go at a time and spend their evening poring over classic mags dreaming about what they can drive next.

Sids Not wrote: »

Theres just too many posers driving around in classics these days..IMHO..:rolleyes:

Yeah! Out with the sunglasses - in with the flat caps! :pac:

Also, I think people forget that anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

woop

mark_eire wrote: »

I agree with Johnf2020,
I bought a 1990 bmw m3 recently which I brought to Durrow last week, I gave a lot of money for the car (probably 4/5k more than I could have got a less well maintained,less mint m3 for)
However, I still think the car was great value for money as everywhere I take the car I get great comments and general interest in the car and it's a car I've always wanted since I was young watching them as touring cars, most people would ask how much did you pay for it etc, probably expecting me to say something like 4 or 5 grand however the reality is 4/5 times that,
True car enthusiasts respect the 'real' value of classic cars and would pay that if genuinely interested in buying the car, but, tyre-kickers just want to know out of nosey-ness and then try ridicule you for paying 'stupid' money for the car,
Let them go and buy 'the one down the road' for a lot cheaper and they'll soon realise why a mint classic is worth all the extra money!!

I also agree John that your car was the car of the show.......beautiful!!

Rant over.......

mate I want youre car either that or a 190 cosworth! ah someday:rolleyes:

and john if youre the guy thats on fci, youre cars a lovely thing had my dad drooling all over it here, hah!