Transport 21- €30 billion euro to be spent on it

WoollyRedHat

Do you view the prospect of getting a better transport system from the outlined plans from Transport 21 at www.transport21.ie or rather a disappointment with still a lot left unlinked?

Personally while parts of it look promising, I think there is a lot to be desired.

Red Hand

I think a more pertinent question is, by how much will this run over budget?


A) By 10 billion

By 20 billion

C) By 30 billion

galwayrush

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

I think a more pertinent question is, by how much will this run over budget?


A) By 10 billion

By 20 billion

C) By 30 billion

Way more i reckon, plus at least another 15 years later than the latest expected finish date,
Remember, this farce of a Goverment promised all major cities would be joined by motorway by 2006.:rolleyes:

galwayrush

bigger question, what percantage of this latest estimate will go into building and operating the stealth tax they call tolls? and how much will the tolls increase by when the roads are actually paid off?

pirelli

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Do you view the prospect of getting a better transport system from the outlined plans from Transport 21 at www.transport21.ie or rather a disappointment with still a lot left unlinked?

Personally while parts of it look promising, I think there is a lot to be desired.

It is really a 2 year plan (because most projects are already completed and the remaining are scheduled for completion in 2010 * completed projects) with only some projects running until 2015 : which are Dublins traffic management plan and the atlantic route plan (letterkenny-sligo-ennis-cork- waterford corridor motorway) and the metro (2014) and the lucan (2013) and bray luas lines . ( All other luas lines including cherrywood will be completed by 2009 and 2010.)


Sector Total expenditure in euro millions
2007
>National Roads: 1,566.7$/M VAt on WESt LINK: 121.9$M PP spend :440$/M total: 2,152.7$M
>Public Transport: 640.4$/M.
>Regional Airports: 3.3 $/M.
>Total: 2,796.4$/M.
2008
>National Roads: 2008 exchequer provison: 1,597$/M PP estimate euro millions 365 total estimate 1,962 $/M.
>Public Transport: 986$/M.
>Regional Airports: 30 $/m.
>Total: 2,978 $/M.


the yearly expenditure averages about 2.7 billion. With 2 billlion already spent and most projects (M50 upgrade, westlink toll , M/N11, most luas lines,... ) to be completed by 2010 the final expenditure up until 2010 can be estimated at 12 -13 billion.

What the remaining 22 billion is being spent on is the 22 billion euro question?
the Dublin traffic management plan concerns: building cycle paths and bus corridors and reducing traffic into the city, and that shouldnt cost billions, let alone millions. tbh I would prefer not to spend billions just to have car drivers options reduced to using dublin bus to get into town.

that leave's the atlantic corridor motorway and the metro. Now if its already started ( several by-passes have started ahead of schedule) then its already part of the initial expenditure up until 2010 which averages in total for all projects 2.8 billion per annum.
this makes it extremely unlikely that for the remaining five years of construction it will suddenly cost 42 times more to construct and finance.

the metro has also already started and is due in 2013 and if i remember was to cost 2000 million and in increments over 5 years that's 200 million and only
10 % of the existing 2.8 billion annual expenditure .
I understand there is alot of construction projects ongoing but i cannot see where or what the unknown white elephant project is going to cost an additional 22 billion?

Anyone have a clue what I am getting on about?

af_thefragile

Ireland does badly need a transportation upgrade though.
The Bus Service is crap and never on time. Trains are pretty infrequent and it takes ages to get from one part of the city to another.

So its good to know the government has plans to do some major upgrade....
But i hope they get it completed by their deadlines... Or we really don't want another Port Tunnel scenario...!!

pirelli

galwayrush wrote: »

Way more i reckon, plus at least another 15 years later than the latest expected finish date,
Remember, this farce of a Goverment promised all major cities would be joined by motorway by 2006.:rolleyes:

More like 2015, but 34 billlion is already 20 billion more than they need, so please dont give the construction industry the impression that you are expecting to fork out another 20 billion. Get a grip man.

the average overspend thus far has been 25 million per annum. Over ten years that is a quarter of a billion or 250 million. that may increase or decrease, but the amount of work done to date shows that they can budget
road construction very accurately.

It is the metro and intercity tunnel that will cause fluctuating costs.

Sherifu

Jaysus, are 2 tram lines not enough for yis? :pac:

OctavarIan

I think we could do with something like London's undergound system. I would gladly give a portion of my wages towards that.

monkeyfudge

OctavarIan wrote: »

I think we could do with something like London's undergound system. I would gladly give a portion of my wages towards that.

I'd gladly give a portion of your wages as well.

OctavarIan

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I'd gladly give a portion of your wages as well.

We can share the portion I give.

monkeyfudge

Love the Elfen Lied sig by the way...

Overheal

OctavarIan wrote: »

I think we could do with something like London's undergound system. I would gladly give a portion of my wages towards that.

iirc werent there some archaeological issues about that?

Motorway work in the West still looks promising tbh. Ennis bypass ftw.

WoollyRedHat

pirelli wrote: »

It is really a 2 year plan (because most projects are already completed and the remaining are scheduled for completion in 2010 * completed projects) with only some projects running until 2015 : which are Dublins traffic management plan and the atlantic route plan (letterkenny-sligo-ennis-cork- waterford corridor motorway) and the metro (2014) and the lucan (2013) and bray luas lines . ( All other luas lines including cherrywood will be completed by 2009 and 2010.)


Sector Total expenditure in euro millions
2007
>National Roads: 1,566.7$/M VAt on WESt LINK: 121.9$M PP spend :440$/M total: 2,152.7$M
>Public Transport: 640.4$/M.
>Regional Airports: 3.3 $/M.
>Total: 2,796.4$/M.
2008
>National Roads: 2008 exchequer provison: 1,597$/M PP estimate euro millions 365 total estimate 1,962 $/M.
>Public Transport: 986$/M.
>Regional Airports: 30 $/m.
>Total: 2,978 $/M.


the yearly expenditure averages about 2.7 billion. With 2 billlion already spent and most projects (M50 upgrade, westlink toll , M/N11, most luas lines,... ) to be completed by 2010 the final expenditure up until 2010 can be estimated at 12 -13 billion.

What the remaining 22 billion is being spent on is the 22 billion euro question?
the Dublin traffic management plan concerns: building cycle paths and bus corridors and reducing traffic into the city, and that shouldnt cost billions, let alone millions. tbh I would prefer not to spend billions just to have car drivers options reduced to using dublin bus to get into town.

that leave's the atlantic corridor motorway and the metro. Now if its already started ( several by-passes have started ahead of schedule) then its already part of the initial expenditure up until 2010 which averages in total for all projects 2.8 billion per annum.
this makes it extremely unlikely that for the remaining five years of construction it will suddenly cost 42 times more to construct and finance.

the metro has also already started and is due in 2013 and if i remember was to cost 2000 million and in increments over 5 years that's 200 million and only
10 % of the existing 2.8 billion annual expenditure .
I understand there is alot of construction projects ongoing but i cannot see where or what the unknown white elephant project is going to cost an additional 22 billion?

Anyone have a clue what I am getting on about?

The bus expansion plans however, does this plan to make buses more regular and perhaps add more routes? That should surely be top of the agenda, because we've been waiting for a decent bus service for too long.

The CherryWood luas line was also due for a long time, they should have become construction on that when the luas was first introduced.

The problem we face is that we have have numerous transportation sytems, with not all of them linking themselves up.

Even after this NDP project is completed our transport sytem still won't be amazing beyond believe.

Like somebody mentioned if only we could have a decent underground metro like London Underground. I know eventually the metro will be up to standard and Dublin will eventually be served by a high standard transportation sytem, but it's still going to be a long time.

I wish they just would have started development with a metro in the late 90s or turn of the 21st century, but this government hasn't got a clue about infrastructure.

As for the possibility of it going over budget, I actually couldn't care, so long it isn't because of a major mess up like we have seen before. Rather over budget and something that will serve this country long term, than on budget and poor.

bonkey

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Even after this NDP project is completed our transport sytem still won't be amazing beyond believe.

It will be comparable to, say, what much of Western Europe had in the late 70s and early 80s....only with the traffic of the early 21st century.

Still....its an improvement, and thats whats needed. The trick is to not stop improving.

WoollyRedHat

bonkey wrote: »

It will be comparable to, say, what much of Western Europe had in the late 70s and early 80s....only with the traffic of the early 21st century.

Still....its an improvement, and thats whats needed. The trick is to not stop improving.

True, but the question is how long will it take to get up to present day standard.

OPENROAD

Will the airport link actually go to the airport terminals or did I hear somewhere that it would stop sure of the actualt terminals.

Time Magazine

Transport 21 is so bad it nearly brings me to tears. Yes, we have a shit transport system, but that does not justify spending so much money so badly on stupid things we don't need. Trains cost about 2.5 times as much as buses to run. 89% of the target public transport increases from Transport 21 are to be on rail.

Want to get people to use public transport in Dublin? Charge them €10 to drive in unless they have a permit and deregulate the bus market so I can set up a bloody bus company if I want. Provide a hell of a lot more funding to Dublin Bus who will then operate in a competitive market.

We're not good at providing infrastructure. The NDP package on primary roads ran 193% over budget. There are so many things we could do to improve transport in this country and all at a fraction of the cost.

As a society we're going to spend €108 per second until 2015 of our money on this and it's not going to be effective. It's shocking.

The_Minister

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I'd gladly give a portion of your wages as well.

Socialist

djpbarry

OctavarIan wrote: »

I think we could do with something like London's undergound system.

<Falls off chair in fits of laughter...>

SimpleSam06

Overheal wrote: »

Motorway work in the West still looks promising tbh.

Is this the one that was cancelled because they ran out of money?