Breakfast roll management

SpencerJames

I would just like some advice from boardsies, preferably those that play with me on a regualr basis.

I have been keeping a detailed record of my live and online poker since January. Iv been abit surprised by the results. I know that live poker is far less fruitful than online my books have proven this right in my case. My question is not about that. Live im up nealy 7k playing the Se game in nearly 4 months. this is far above my expectations but ive been running well and playing well. what has starled me is im down nearly 2k in weekly tournaments. these are just the 100 double chance and so on. I have had afew good cashes in them aswell in this period. I knew id be down in them but would never of thought that much.

My question is, are tournaments +ev for most regulars. I dont mean the big games 500 and up. but the weekly games. I can't see how they are given that I have done ok in them and am still down a good chunk of change, yet we all play them maybe 3/4 a week. The only person I can think of that plays the SE nl game with me that doesnt play them is Primewise. Id be interested to hear his opinion.I know im considered a cash player but I wouldnt classify myself as a tournament donk either. What im thinking now is just to play cash solely and play the big tournaments ie. 1 €1k game rather than 10 €100 games. Just would like some opinions on the topic.

CourierCollie

I'm not qualified to give any advice on this. But I really don't think the bottom line results are all that surprising. The varience in mtts is just so high that almost nothing could be deduced from 15 or 20 games imo.
'Tournaments are a different creature. The volatility in Tournaments is out of sight. I don't think you can consider playing tournaments for a living. I think that is impossible', -Dan Harrington (quoted from cardplayer mag)

Glowingmind

I think the reality for most people who play the regular tournaments in there is that they're a losing proposition. I had what i considered a good year in those tourneys, but by their very nature it's very tough to make much of a profit out of them, and i'm currently feeling the sharp end of the varience in them. I have a full time job, and simply won't allow myself to play games that'll go on until 5am on a weekday morning.
This means that I only play 1 live tourney a week at most. This means that i need to be coming top 3/4 at least once a month to make them profitable which is pretty unlikely. What made my year so good last year, were a few good results in some of the €100+ tourneys that also has larger than average fields (more than 60).
This year has been a completely different story. Last year i was working irregular hours and days which allowed me to play more tourneys than i currently can because i now work 9-5.
Essentially I play live tournaments more as a luxury I can afford than a profit making enterprise. Obviously, my goal in playing them is to win them, but at the same time, losing €110 per week in a tourney is not a significant hit.

I'm sure you know this yourself, but playing cash games regularly is always going to be a more likely long term earner. Obviously there are plenty of successful tournament players, but a lot of the profit will likely come from one or two big results out of a large amount of tourneys, as opposed to cash games which offer a much more fluid way to make money. With tournamets you're faced with a very rigid start and end point. In a tournament, if you get stuck at a tough table you've no option other than to play. In cash games, if you're at a table you feel is not going to be profitable enough, you can just get up and leave with whatever you have in front of you intact.

So, in summation.......... lol donkaments.

Primewise

Rory I've had similar results to you regarding tournaments. When I used to play them, Id have my fair share of final tables but Id still find that most of my profit came from the cash games.

I keep records of my profits and losses and my overall profit from tournaments since I began playing poker last year is actually negative (although if I include the 2 satellite packages that I won into the Irish open then I'm up). So I decided in October that the weekly small buyin tournaments weren't worth the time and effort so since then I've stopped playing them and have focused only on cash games (online and live).

I'm playing the €500 event tonight in the SE... my first regular tournament in the sporting emporium since november!

Pabloh

Hi Rory,
I think that playing the regular tournaments is a poor choice for a cash game player. I've had 1 good result this year (Killarney) that skews my figures completely but aside from that I'm only up €450 from the regular tournaments. I think that on the back of my mind I've played a lot of tournaments just to pass time until the cash game opens - obviously this is serious ----EV. Going forward I only plan to play the tournies with a decent structure, typically the €200+ games. No more going in on a Friday to pass the time before the cash game - I'll go home after work and grap 4 hours kip before heading into the cash instead.

Paul

HiCloy

I was hoping for advice on where to find the best breakfast rolls when the SE shuts

TommyGunne

CourierCollie made the most obvious point so far. The variance in these is sickening. You probably will never know in your life whether or not you are a long term winner in these, most definitely if you only play live tourneys. The crappy structures only add to this. Your winrate is also affected by pretty high reg fees in most places too.

Its also tough to mix the 2. So many people head straight from tourneys to cash, and then into the tourney the first thing the next afternoon. Tourneys and cash play so differently that this makes it really hard to play both.

Goodluck2me

I noticed the exact same thing in my records, goin manyb 20 tournaments without a win can really dent your profits.
I pretty much exclusively play cash only now, and the bigger well structured tournaments with lots of play.

El Stuntman

I fully agree

I don't play the weekly donkeymints (™YULETIRED) anymore either unless I can sat into one with a good structure and decent prizepool - you're far better off sitting into cash with a deep stack instead of trying to take on The Chief and his merry men in shallow-stacked 20min blind luckfests (~8 hands per level) where it's AIPF or fold 3/4 levels in

El Stuntman

HiCloy wrote: »

I was hoping for advice on where to find the best breakfast rolls when the SE shuts

The Jackpot obv.

mormank

i never have kept records of my wins or losses but i would say that overall from tournies i am down. its hard to say tho cos i spend tournie winnings asap, in fact i bought my car last year from a tournie win in killarney. I believe that nicky power once said that it is possible to make a living off tournies but he also said he would take a race for his stack in any level!! maybe that is the key, get in and win or get out early....

cash games are defo the way to go live. there is nothing more beautiful than a soft cash game!! ah i love it. dont get me wrong, i enjoy the challenge of a tough one, like i experienced in dublin after the irish open but for the most part watching them tryin to outdraw when i have flopped the nuts, or close, is just a sight for sore eyes.

i also think deepstack cash is the purer version of texas holdem!!

Slash/ED

The weekly tournaments are pretty much just for fun. You could not play them purely for the money making, the variance is too much.

Goodluck2me

mormank wrote: »

i also think deepstack cash is the purer version of texas holdem!!

300BB+ is a skill game.

ozpoker

Yes - local weekly tourneys are beatable long term
Yes - they are +EV
Yes - they are high variance
Yes - they're great practice for bigger events
No - you can't make a descent living playing them exclusively

FWIW - my hourly rate in the local tourneys (155 over 18 months) is very similar to my hourly rate in the 1-2 PLH game.

ditpoker

goodluck2me wrote: »

300BB+ is a skill game.

surely tournament play, albeit a different skill set is still "a skill game"... otherwise whenever people go to play a tournament everyone should just throw their money in a hat and sit back and let the cards dictate who wins... pure luck etc.

300bb is a skill game
5bb is a skill game
tennis is a skill game
curling is... AWESOME!!

El Stuntman

ozpoker wrote: »

Yes - they're great practice for bigger events.

just wondering about this one Oz; surely they are radically different (smaller fields, shallow stacks, worse players, fast structures) to bigger events and thus not much use unless it's for getting your 'tournie head' on?

would be interested if you could expand on this

smurph

El Stuntman wrote: »

just wondering about this one Oz; surely they are radically different (smaller fields, shallow stacks, worse players, fast structures) to bigger events and thus not much use unless it's for getting your 'tournie head' on?

would be interested if you could expand on this

Maybe this is off topic but one thing I noticed in the Sporting Emporium leading up to the Ladbrokes Poker Millions final was that Liam Flood played alot of the Tournaments, not just the €200 + buy-in's. He played the double chance, + €100 freezeouts. I reckon that he was practicing how to play shortstacked etc.,

I personally thought he played really well at the final table. I know that people have this 10 big blinds = shove tactics, each to their own.

Goodluck2me

El Stuntman wrote: »

just wondering about this one Oz; surely they are radically different (smaller fields, shallow stacks, worse players, fast structures) to bigger events and thus not much use unless it's for getting your 'tournie head' on?

would be interested if you could expand on this

I think the main use you would get from it is the adjustment to longer play - i.e. having to play 8-10 hr sessions when in cash you can leave when you like.
also making admustments like getting more aggro around the bubble, important levels etc.
There is certainly some merit in playing them, look how badly Valor does in them.

ozpoker

El Stuntman wrote: »

just wondering about this one Oz; surely they are radically different (smaller fields, shallow stacks, worse players, fast structures) to bigger events and thus not much use unless it's for getting your 'tournie head' on?

would be interested if you could expand on this

The tourney players here (in Dublin at least) don't know how good they have it, structure wise. Even the really short 20 minute rounds and 3000 starting stacks provide some time playing medium stacked. And if you double through, you can find yourself in some deepstack situations against others. The equivalent buy-in structures in the US are a lot shorter, and really are gamble fests the whole way.

When I say they are great practice, what I mean is that you get a wide range of situations in the weekly tourneys that have direct correlation to the situations you find yourself in the larger tourneys. Yes, there will be a higher percentage of better players in the bigger buyin tourneys, but you still find yourself playing against the lucky donk or two, and all those hours spent trying to separate the Chief from his chips will pay big dividends.

You also get experience playing against scared stacks near the money and at the final table. Even though the buy-in is low in the weekly tourneys, the money steps are important to many who make the final table. Players will tighten up over the next €100 step in payouts, and understanding these situations will pay big dividends when the step is €3500 or €9000 in a larger tourney.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

semibluff

breakfast roll . . . top of dawson street - londis on stephens green. Delicious, and at 6 o clock, piping hot and fresh!

califano

Its a bit out of the way and going back some years now but the butty caravan in the bluebell industrial estate is the nicest place ive ever got a breakfast roll. As the driver said "Theres ay'tin and drinkin in it lol(wheasy lol)".

YULETIRED

rounders123 wrote: »

Its a bit out of the way and going back some years now but the butty caravan in the bluebell industrial estate is the nicest place ive ever got a breakfast roll. As the driver said "Theres ay'tin and drinkin in it lol(wheasy lol)".

was his name Pat Short?

califano

YULETIRED wrote: »

was his name Pat Short?

he was the dubliner version of pat short. and apologies as the 'ay'tin' mislead you to think of him as a country man.

YULETIRED

rounders123 wrote: »

he was the dubliner version of pat short. and apologies as the 'ay'tin' mislead you to think of him as a country man.

no it was this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk6eCDQvvMM

califano

I'll have to wait to see that. nofuninworkaments