Clutch Problem Ford Focus

jprender

My wife has a 2006 Ford Focus Ghia model.

Last week, the clutch just gave up. In other words when the clutch pedal was pressed, she could not change gear.

Long story short....... Ford garage have now just called to say that the clutch has been "burnt out" and is not covered under warranty. :mad:

The car has only got 31,000 kms on it and is just 2 years old !!!
My wife certainly doesn't drive it hard.

Any ideas to help on this one, or do we just have to accept this ?

Thanks.

Gegerty

jprender wrote: »

My wife has a 2006 Ford Focus Ghia model.

Last week, the clutch just gave up. In other words when the clutch pedal was pressed, she could not change gear.

Long story short....... Ford garage have now just called to say that the clutch has been "burnt out" and is not covered under warranty. :mad:

The car has only got 31,000 kms on it and is just 2 years old !!!
My wife certainly doesn't drive it hard.

Any ideas to help on this one, or do we just have to accept this ?

Thanks.

I'd start by asking for proof, if they're genuine they'll have no problem bringing you into the garage and point out the problem to you. If you're still not happy I'd get a 2nd opinion, take it to another garage and don't mention what the 1st gargage said.

jprender

Yeah thanks, I think that 2nd opinion is the way to go.

Problem is that they have supplied her with a hire car for the last 5days while focus was in. they are now looking for payment for the hired car as not covered by warranty !!

Unfortunately, I wouldnt know a clutch if it hit me in the mush, so no point me inspecting it !!

This just seems crazy to me

DublinDilbert

I'd be getting onto ford ireland and see what they can do... I can't believe the dealer isn't doing anything more for you, did you buy the car there?

I would not be paying for the hire car either...

I have heard some horror stories about focus clutches, when they go the pressure plate breaks up and takes out the bell housing....

fightin irish

As long as they show you the clutch. If it is burned out you'll clearly see the burn/scorch marks on mainly the clutch plate. Once they are there i'm afraid it's driver error(no matter how good someone wreckons they drive) and that's why Ford won't pay for it under warranty.

You'd be surprised how many people burn out cluthes and don't even phatom that they ever had anything to do with it. (and i don't mean that personally to your situation)

jprender

Well I will try and get a look at the clutch to see if I can see any burn marks.
Amazing that it can happen to such a new car but I will bow to the superior knowledge of people that know about cars n stuff.

the next thing is they want to charge us 800 yoyo's for a new one.

Again I have no idea so how does this cost mesaure up ?
It doesnt include labour I believe.

who_ru

800 sounds very steep indeed for just a clutch, i think that price must or at least should include labour.

recently i asked about the cost of a new clutch for a '02 VW Passat - i was quoted 220 incl VAT for the clutch itself. labour was going to cost another 220 so i was looking at roughly 450 for the job.

as said earlier get a 2nd opinion and quote for doing the job at another garage.

mickdw

If they have the clutch pulled out of it, it is going to be hard to take it another garage. Basically all the work is done now and the same work is involved in putting it back together with old clutch or new. You could offer to supply clutch yourself to reduce costs.

DublinDilbert

mickdw wrote: »

If they have the clutch pulled out of it, it is going to be hard to take it another garage. Basically all the work is done now and the same work is involved in putting it back together with old clutch or new. You could offer to supply clutch yourself to reduce costs.

i doubt they would fit anything other than a genuine ford one, so you'll have to buy it from them anyway... but you are right about 1/2 the work been done... looks like he is caught between a rock and a hard place! :mad:

just back to the original poster, do you think it might of been the driving which lead to the clutch going so soon?? its hard to believe anyone could burn out a clutch in 31,000km (19k miles)....

i know now days when people are doing lessons for the driving test they are told to leave the car in first at the lights, if the are in the first 3 or 4 cars.... this must cause some amount of ware! like even if they can see the traffic lights are green for the other road, they must still sit in first!!!

jprender

As other posters have said I think that we are caught.

I am gonna drop into them today myself and see what I can do but I dont hold out much hope.

Its actually 850 for the clutch + labour.

Also the hire car for the week which we would never have taken only that the garage told us originally that we were entitled to one under the warranty !!

Its a shame really, cos my wife loves the car but this has indeed soured us against ford.

Car just had a service in January aswell. We were told that the car was perfecto.

jprender

DublinDilbert wrote: »

just back to the original poster, do you think it might of been the driving which lead to the clutch going so soon?? its hard to believe anyone could burn out a clutch in 31,000km (19k miles)....

It doesnt get driven hard at all. Hardly gets driven full stop and 90% of journeys are motorway.

I am not even sure what kind of use would cause a clutch to burn out.
Surely it would take something drastic to have this occur after only 31000kms ?

maidhc

jprender wrote: »

I am not even sure what kind of use would cause a clutch to burn out.
Surely it would take something drastic to have this occur after only 31000kms ?

You will burn out a clutch in a couple of k ifyou put your mind to it, but clutches are generally quite robust. If the friction material is actually worn down to the rivets, then there really is no other alternative but driver error.

One thing that kills clutches is people using the clutch to keep the car from rolling back in traffic!

Gegerty

Something certainly sounds dodgy. Just a thought but could it be possible that there is another problem which has caused it to burn out? I'm not an expert but I do know a clutch has lots of parts that make it work and it makes sense that an error elsewhere could cause it to burn out. A garage isn't going to look for that. They're going to see a burnt out clutch and thats it, down tools its bad driving.

Here's an interesting discussion on clutch problems:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/35614-clutch-plate-goes-kaput-every-2-3-months.html

crosstownk

jprender wrote: »

It doesnt get driven hard at all.

You don't need to drive hard to burn out a clutch. Using the clutch to 'hold' the vehicle on an incline (eg holding in traffic on an off ramp) can easily cause it to burn out in a relatively short space of time. Resting the left foot on the clutch pedal can also contribute to excessive clutch wear. Both instances are classified as driver error.

In your case, if you are unsure as to why the clutch burnt out, then maybe consider getting an independent assessor to evaluate the faulty component. Put it to the garage that if the assessor finds that the wear is the manufacturers responsibility that they (the garage) should cover the assessors costs - or if it's down to driver error that you will cover the cost. If the garage are willing to do this then you can be sure they are pretty confident that it is due to driver error.

An independent assessor will cost you min €150.

Chergar

Can i ask, is the focus a diesel. If so have you guys driven a diesel before. Sometimes the change in driving style and the required gear change can be very slight, but it may be one way in which the clutch has burnt out so quickly, if you continued to drive it like a petrol .
however, its still extremely unlikely that a focus clutch would go like that. The standard OEM clucth for the Mark 2 focus will have a model number K7026001.So you could easily briing it into advanced or the like and ask them to give you a price for part ordering. 800 is way over priced. i know this for fact.
Its sounds to me the dealer is trying to rob you because he may sense you wont ask questions. but remember a ford is a ford, and all their parts are really cheap and easy to replace. So seriously the best thing to do is to bring it to advanced or perhaps a second ford dealer.

crosstownk

Chergar wrote: »

So seriously the best thing to do is to bring it to advanced

I'm assuming you mean Advance Pitstop. If so, then personally, I wouldn't rely on them for a second opinion. They'll just want to replace the clutch and get paid.

If you didn't mean Advance Pitstop then ignore my comment.

bluemachaveli

€800 is way over the odds for a clutch. Ford genuine clutches are not that expensive. That amount should cover the clutch, release bearing and a chunk of te labour! Quick question for ya!

Does your wife drive with her foot over or just resting against the clutch?
They can be fairly sensitive. Seen two in with that problem and they weren't covered under warranty.

jprender

Thanks all,

I went to dealers yesterday to have a look at the offending article.

It is indeed burnt to bits. Charred and worn away.

Cant come up with any reason as to why this has happened so just have to take the dealer at his word.

Managed to get quote down to 850 euro all in to replace it.

Car hire is gonna run at about 70 euro per day over the last 8 days aswell.

Quite a costly event.

Cant understand it really.

Anyway, thanks again.

R.O.R

jprender wrote: »

Car hire is gonna run at about 70 euro per day over the last 8 days aswell.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!

Did the dealer supply the car from their stock or did they use the likes of Enterprise? For €70 a day I'd be expecting a 5 series or E-Class!

Don't let them get away with billing you that much for the Hire Car as it won't be costing them anything like that. Something like a Focus from Enterprise will cost approx. €25 per day without insurance.

blackbox

I think you should still consult an independent assessor or mechanic for an opinion - this doesn't sound right to me. Also you want to know what caused it to avoid the same problem in another 31k km.

When a clutch plate burns/wears out it won't engage fully and you usually get problems with slippage rather than an inability to change gear. Usually this is caused by excessive holding car with clutch.

When you can't change gear it is usually because the clutch won't disengage fully, either due to wear in thrust bearing or possibly in linkage. This can be caused by resting foot lightly on clutch pedal while driving.

Wear in both are normal at high mileage.

tred

jprender wrote: »

Thanks all,

I went to dealers yesterday to have a look at the offending article.

It is indeed burnt to bits. Charred and worn away.

Cant come up with any reason as to why this has happened so just have to take the dealer at his word.

Managed to get quote down to 850 euro all in to replace it.

Car hire is gonna run at about 70 euro per day over the last 8 days aswell.

Quite a costly event.

Cant understand it really.

Anyway, thanks again.

You should ring up another Ford Dealer in another county looking for a quote.
Ford parts are much cheaper than most, and i even found servicing wiht a ford dealer in galway, is not much more expensive than some of the local lads. Theyll change the clutch and pressure plate i assume, but that not extra cost.

BrianD3

Which Ford garage is this and how much do they charge per hour for labour. 850 sounds very steep, are they charging 100+ quid an hour for labour? I got a Focus serviced at Finlays Newbridge recently, 95 quid for a minor service, labour charge was about 40 quid per hour.

It sounds like your garage are being pr1cks about the replacement car too. We have had replacement cars from various garages over the years and never had to pay a penny even when the replacement was not covered under any warranty. Now I know that many garages do charge for replacement cars IIRC Liffey Valley Renault charge 35 quid a day, a lot better than 70 though.

fightin irish

OP. I've just priced the same job here in work(main ford dealer) Assuming it's a 1.4. They came back with €699.16 all in.

Clutch :208
Slave Cylinder: 128
Labour @ 3.50 hrs: 280 (LABOUR RATE IS €80 AN HOUR)

+ VAT @ 13.50%

I would of assumed that they would of at least given the parts at a''trade'' price. Just as a good will gester. Just my opinion anyways.

jprender

fightin irish wrote: »

OP. I've just priced the same job here in work(main ford dealer) Assuming it's a 1.4. They came back with €699.16 all in.

Clutch :208
Slave Cylinder: 128
Labour @ 3.50 hrs: 280 (LABOUR RATE IS €80 AN HOUR)

+ VAT @ 13.50%

I would of assumed that they would of at least given the parts at a''trade'' price. Just as a good will gester. Just my opinion anyways.

Its a 1.6 if that makes any difference to the cost.

But looking at your workings it looks like we are being ripped alright. Wife has just gone to collect car (and pay full whack as we had little choice if we wanted the car back) now, and will try again to work something out with the rental side of things.

Actually come to think of it, I am surprised they havent thought to charge for the towing of the car to the garage. Wonder how that poor bugger is gonna get his money.

fightin irish

I just ran your situation past our service dept. And they said in that situation they would always get the parts at trade price and reduce the labour.

Now i'm sure they're no angels in my place either but i was surprised that this dealer didn't show some compassion considering how low the mileage was.

jprender

fightin irish wrote: »

I just ran your situation past our service dept. And they said in that situation they would always get the parts at trade price and reduce the labour.

Now i'm sure they're no angels in my place either but i was surprised that this dealer didn't show some compassion considering how low the mileage was.

Let me know where you are and if you are close I will have my wife go to you for servicing in the future. Wont be going back here in a hurry.

They are actually a volvo dealer aswell so I have even been getting my own car serviced here too !!

2 very unhappy (lost) customers.

DublinDilbert

fightin irish wrote: »

Now i'm sure they're no angels in my place either but i was surprised that this dealer didn't show some compassion considering how low the mileage was.

+1 i'm highly surprised there was nothing done as a good will gesture. Thats no way to run a business...

I know a woman who tried reversing up a hill for about 400m :eek:, riding the clutch all the way :eek:, eventually the clutch caught fire + the oil in the gear box went up too, cracking the bell housing and all... After some going back and forth the OEM paid the dealer to fit a new gear box + clutch.

Did you figure out if it was driving style which cause this? I doubt that it was...

Maybe some driving instructor out there would tell us how long they typically get out of a clutch? i know its an extreme example but might be a good bench mark... i'm still trying to get over how a clutch with <20k miles could go in the first place... especially when you said a bit of that was on the motorway.

jprender

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Did you figure out if it was driving style which cause this? I doubt that it was...

Maybe some driving instructor out there would tell us how long they typically get out of a clutch? i know its an extreme example but might be a good bench mark... i'm still trying to get over how a clutch with <20k miles could go in the first place... especially when you said a bit of that was on the motorway.

Ford are of the opinion that if the clutch is burnt out, then it is driver error full stop. Both the dealer and the Customer Service guy gave me this line. I asked them could this have caused it or could that have caused it, but repeatedly was said to me "burnt clutch = driver error". TBH it just feels like if they can find any excuse to say it is not covered by warranty, then that is what they will do. It might not be true but that is the way it feels.

And most of the driving is motorway, so no real chance to burn rubber at the lights like i know my 34 year old wife loves to do with our 1 year old in the back seat :rolleyes:

Crosshair

OP states that couldnt change gear in the car, if it was worn clutch lining or pressure plate face he could change gear but car wouldnt go anywhere, if he cant change gear its a problem with hydraulics/pressure plate spring/release bearing/dual mass flywheel and they could be showing any old clutch disk to him.
Did the clutch pedal feel normal when it went, or did it slap to floor?

maidhc

Crosshair wrote: »

OP states that couldnt change gear in the car, if it was worn clutch lining or pressure plate face he could change gear but car wouldnt go anywhere, if he cant change gear its a problem with hydraulics/pressure plate spring/release bearing/dual mass flywheel and they could be showing any old clutch disk to him.
Did the clutch pedal feel normal when it went, or did it slap to floor?

That is a fair point. If the pressure plate failed then it is a warranty matter.

martinr5232

A clutch disc wont just wear to the rivets so quick that you cant change gear.

Sounds to me like a pressure plate problem.

Also about thirty,thirty five quid would be normal for car hire.

jprender

Managed to get the total cost ddown to 740 for the repair and 200 for the hire.

All in all though 940 euro.


Just to recap, the clutch would depress but the gear stick would not engage into any gear.

Also, if I turned the car off, put the car in first gear and turned it back on again, it would jolt forward. The guy who towed the car for us used this method to actually get the car into the garage from the outside road.

quarryman

Probably all a bit late now but this burnt out clutch thing sounds a bit suspect.

Did your wife notice the clutch degrade, ie it slowly became harder to get in gear?

A worn clutch won't happen suddenly.

I had the same symptoms on my Focus as it was a problem with the master cylinder leaking. 30 mins attention from the AA and it was back to life.

A worn clutch is possible but unlikely. Particularly since you're doing motorway miles.

BrianD3

Symptoms sound more like a dragging clutch than a worn out clutch. I don't know if bad driving can cause a dragging clutch. I would have said that bad driving would be more likely to cause a slipping clutch.

If the garage have ripped you off here it would not be the first time that a main dealer has made a ****up like this. Friend of mine had overheating and dropping coolant levels in his Astra, an Opel garage examined the car, diagnosed it as a blown head gasket and quoted 1100 quid to fix. He brought it to an independent mechanic for a 2nd opinion and the 2nd guy was shocked at the Opel diagnosis, said there was nothing wrong with the HG, IIRC replaced a thermostat or a water pump (can't remember which) and the car has been fine since.

Stories such as the above are commonplace in the motor trade i'm afraid

jprender

quarryman wrote: »

Probably all a bit late now but this burnt out clutch thing sounds a bit suspect.

Did your wife notice the clutch degrade, ie it slowly became harder to get in gear?

A worn clutch won't happen suddenly.

Nothing was noticed at all. Stopped on the motorway to attend to the little fella and when she tried to pull out again the car wouldnt go into gear.

It was that sudden.

As you say though, it is too late now. Money paid and dealer smiling.

Unfortunately the average Joe doesnt stand a chance when it comes to something he knows nothing about. He has to take the dealer at his word and cough up.

It leaves a bad taste.