pilot

gufc4life

hi im just wondering after your leaving cert what ways is there to go about being a pilot?or what course should you take?
thanks

electric69

Fixed wing? helicopter? You can apply to join the Irish air corps, attempt to get sponsorship from a company or else pay for your training privately. It all depends on what you want to do. The first thing you should do is take and introduction flight at your nearest aerodrome and ask for advice from some pilots there.

ImDave

gufc4life wrote: »

hi im just wondering after your leaving cert what ways is there to go about being a pilot?or what course should you take?
thanks

You have a number of different options available to you. Assuming you are interested in fixed wing, you have a good selection of routes to take within Ireland. Integrated is where you study and train on a full time basis to go from zero to frozen ATPL. This means that you start the course with no previous training/experience what so ever, and after about a years training, have a Commercial Pilot Licence, with the ATPL exams passed.

Modular is the other type of route open to you, and is what I am going through myself. The first step is obtaining your PPL (Private Pilot Licence). This can be done at any Flight Training Organisation, or by joining a flying club. This requires a minimum of 45 hours, passing written exams and a flight test. After the PPL, many (including myself), sit the ATPL exams upon completion of the PPL to get them out of the way. The ATPL, or, Airline Transport Pilot Licence exams are made up of 14 subjects, and you must have these passed before you can be awarded your commercial licence. Your CPL will most likely include Multi-engine Instrument Rating. This allows you to fly twin engine aircraft, and in IFR weather (basically where visability/weather is poor). The great thing about modular is it is basically part time. You can do your PPL in your own time, at your own pace and study for the ATPL's under your own direction.

I realise this may seem long winded, but its not actually as bad as it seems. There are some good resources on the web, and check the sticky on the top of this fourm. Flight training is expensive, but the first money you should part with is undergoing a Class 1 Medical in the Mater Private in Dublin. The Class 1 is the medical requirement for a commercial pilot. As electric69 says, go take a introductory flight and see how it feels. Talk to your instructor and get as much advise as possible from him/her.

Link to IAA's list of Flight Training Organisations:
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/lic_fto.asp

Best of luck, EI-DAV

ImDave

Double post

ronnie3585

gufc4life wrote: »

hi im just wondering after your leaving cert what ways is there to go about being a pilot?or what course should you take?
thanks

Go to your nearest bank with a shotgun and a wheelbarrow to fill with cash!

Seriously, EI-DAV has summed it up pretty succinctly. As he mentioned the first thing you should do is book yourself in for a Class 1 Medical.

highlydebased

+1 for everything already said, but just to note you dont need a leaving cert to be a pilot.

gufc4life

EI-DAV wrote: »

You have a number of different options available to you. Assuming you are interested in fixed wing, you have a good selection of routes to take within Ireland. Integrated is where you study and train on a full time basis to go from zero to frozen ATPL. This means that you start the course with no previous training/experience what so ever, and after about a years training, have a Commercial Pilot Licence, with the ATPL exams passed.

Modular is the other type of route open to you, and is what I am going through myself. The first step is obtaining your PPL (Private Pilot Licence). This can be done at any Flight Training Organisation, or by joining a flying club. This requires a minimum of 45 hours, passing written exams and a flight test. After the PPL, many (including myself), sit the ATPL exams upon completion of the PPL to get them out of the way. The ATPL, or, Airline Transport Pilot Licence exams are made up of 14 subjects, and you must have these passed before you can be awarded your commercial licence. Your CPL will most likely include Multi-engine Instrument Rating. This allows you to fly twin engine aircraft, and in IFR weather (basically where visability/weather is poor). The great thing about modular is it is basically part time. You can do your PPL in your own time, at your own pace and study for the ATPL's under your own direction.

I realise this may seem long winded, but its not actually as bad as it seems. There are some good resources on the web, and check the sticky on the top of this fourm. Flight training is expensive, but the first money you should part with is undergoing a Class 1 Medical in the Mater Private in Dublin. The Class 1 is the medical requirement for a commercial pilot. As electric69 says, go take a introductory flight and see how it feels. Talk to your instructor and get as much advise as possible from him/her.

Link to IAA's list of Flight Training Organisations:
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/lic_fto.asp

Best of luck, EI-DAV

thanks a million EI-DAV and everyone here for helping!does anyone here know what age you have to be to start flying privatly?and also after taking all these step ei-dav has said can you become a pilot with a commerical airlines?and how expensive is it to become a pilot like what you have said? i looked a ptc in waterford and that seem very expensive 98,000 i think !

ImDave

gufc4life wrote: »

thanks a million EI-DAV and everyone here for helping!does anyone here know what age you have to be to start flying privatly?and also after taking all these step ei-dav has said can you become a pilot with a commerical airlines?and how expensive is it to become a pilot like what you have said? i looked a ptc in waterford and that seem very expensive 98,000 i think !

I can't remember exactly what age you have to be to obtain a PPL, but I think its 17 to hold a PPL, 16 to fly solo. The steps I outlined above are more or less the minimum pre-requisites to get a job with an airline. In most cases to get a job you will also need to pay for your own type rating (a type rating is special training, most of which is carried out in a simulator, to fly a specific type of aircraft i.e Boeing 737-800 for Ryanair, ATR for Aer Arann or Airbus A320/321 for Aer Lingus etc.) A type rating is by no means cheap, and a ball park is about €25,000. You will also need what is called an MCC or, Multi Crew Co-operation certificate. This, however is cheap relative to the rest of your training.

The price you have for PTC is for Integrated training as I was speaking about above. Integrated training, as a general rule, is substantially more expensive than modular. Modular training can be upto half the price of Integrated training, depending on where you go, but each has its own pros and cons.

The following link is to the careers section of the Ryanair website, detailing the requirements for "Cadets".
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?page=Jobs&sec=careers&ref=app_cadets

electric69

Neon-Circles wrote: »

+1 for everything already said, but just to note you dont need a leaving cert to be a pilot.

Not completly true. where i did my training you DID need a leaving cert or whatever your national equivalent was.(that was for a combined course including the ATPL theoretical knowledge exams.)



You can start logging flights at 15 (as far as i can remember) and you must be 17 to be issued a PPL.

Flying costs a lot of money. With the way the American dollar has gone in recent times it has become much more affordable for some people to train privately in the US. It is difficult to say how much it will cost as it all depends on what training you want to do and then you have to take into acount living expenses. Flying in Ireland is more expensive per hour and the weather is far less flying friendly compared to the US.

cp251

All good advice but whatever route you take to be a pilot it's going to cost a lot of money unless you get into the Air Corps. There is no sponsorship available anymore but it is easier to get the money from a bank.

It's important to note the difference between an 'integrated' and 'modular' course. A JAA integrated course is full time, essentially in a college type situation in a syllabus approved by the JAA. It takes about 60 weeks and costs a lot of money. NO Irish Flying Training Organisation offers an integrated course. The CAA only approve four FTOs for an integrated course. Two are in Britain and two overseas. But even the British FTOs send their students overseas to warm sunny climes for some of the flying.

Modular simply means you get your licences and ratings one by one. It can in one FTO or in as many as you like. You can even do the courses in Florida. It can be done full time or take as long as you need. There are three Irish FTOs offering modular training, NFC, PTC and Atlantic. PTC style themselves as a flying college and offer a full time modular course which some people mistake for integrated. Indeed I met one graduate of the course who was convinced it was a JAA integrated course. Even EI-DAV was fooled:

The price you have for PTC is for Integrated training as I was speaking about above. Integrated training, as a general rule, is substantially more expensive than modular.

It's not a JAA integrated course merely a number of JAA modular courses which have been integrated into a package. Nothing wrong with that. It's a good idea in fact but you pay more for the privilege and have to find the money upfront. I for one would prefer to take an actual JAA integrated course with one of the CAA FTOs. The Australian school, WAA, being a very attractive option. It is also cheaper than PTC. Even if you factor in accomodation costs.

So don't be fooled, there is a difference between integrated in the JAA sense and courses which are described as integrated but are in fact modular wearing a pretty dress.


There is a third method which is popular. Go to America or South Africa or Canada and get all the licences and ratings done under their authorities. Then come home and do a conversion course. You'll need to do the written exams for the ATPL first. Then there's a fifteen hour conversion course followed by a CPL flight test and a Multi Engine Instrument rating flight test.

This is easily the cheapest and quckest way of obtaining your licence and ratings.

Of course all of these depend on you having money and time to go away and do nothing else. If you don't have the money now. The best answer is to go to college, get a good well paid job and then spend a few years adding the licences and ratings one by one as and when you can afford them. The reality is that most pilots out there did just that. Simple as that.

electric69

cp251 wrote: »

All good advice but whatever route you take to be a pilot it's going to cost a lot of money unless you get into the Air Corps. There is no sponsorship available anymore but it is easier to get the money from a bank.

Bond, Bristow,PHI to name but a few all offer sponsorship.

cp251

Bond, Bristow,PHI to name but a few all offer sponsorship.

Helicopters operators all. If I'm not mistaken. As far as I know there are currently no airlines sponsoring at the moment or likely to be.

ImDave

cp251 wrote: »

PTC style themselves as a flying college and offer a full time modular course which some people mistake for integrated. Indeed I met one graduate of the course who was convinced it was a JAA integrated course.

I was never aware of that. From speaking with students of PTC, and FI's I was always given the impression it is integrated. Good to know.

cp251 wrote: »

The best answer is to go to college, get a good well paid job and then spend a few years adding the licences and ratings one by one as and when you can afford them. The reality is that most pilots out there did just that. Simple as that.

+1 Thats very sound advice. It is also good to have something to fall back on in case anything goes wrong.

As far as I know there are currently no airlines sponsoring at the moment or likely to be.

Easyjet offer two different schemes. Neither are complete sponsorship schemes, but offer bonding agreements AFAIK.

http://www.easyjetcareers.com/flight-crew-careers/pilot-careers/

Holsten

electric69 wrote: »

Flying costs a lot of money. With the way the American dollar has gone in recent times it has become much more affordable for some people to train privately in the US. It is difficult to say how much it will cost as it all depends on what training you want to do and then you have to take into acount living expenses. Flying in Ireland is more expensive per hour and the weather is far less flying friendly compared to the US.

I take it your in the States doing it then?

Whats the story with Visa's, etc?

cp251

Easyjet offer two different schemes. Neither are complete sponsorship schemes, but offer bonding agreements AFAIK.

From the CTC website:

What's more, this is an affordable, sponsored route into the airline industry. To ensure talented applicants aren't grounded by a lack of finance, the CTC Wings Cadet route operates an innovative financial solution to fund your training.

My italics. They lend you the money. You have to pay it back out of your salary. BTW The debt remains yours even if you are fired or never hired by Easyjet.

Don't get me wrong the CTC/Easyjet scheme is very good. But you have to pay for it. A lot of these so called 'cadet' schemes are attractive sounding. But there are no guarnteed jobs at the end of them just guaranteed interviews. The reality is that you can do exactly the same thing yourself, IF you have the money.

A lot of 'cadet' schemes are just a way for FTOs to sell overpriced training on the back of an endorsement from an airline. The airlines love them because they get to cherrypick pilots.

The only honest 'cadet' scheme out there is the Ryanair one. You get your frozen ATPL Muti/Ir MCC from wherever you like. Pass their assessment, hand over 25k and they train you for the type rating. Aer Arann do the same only they don't call it a cadet scheme. They even pay YOU back the money it cost.... eventually.

electric69

Holsten wrote: »

I take it your in the States doing it then?

Whats the story with Visa's, etc?

It depends what you circumstances are before you arrive over. If you just had a PPL for example, you are eligible to apply for a 2 year M1 visa.This visa allows you to work too, but it must be "in job training". You can also apply for a H3 visa which gives you an 18 month extension to your visa, but with this visa you are required to have a sponsor (i.e your flight school). There are lots of other visa's available but the more qualified you are, the less time you will be able to get a visa for.

hano

does any1 know what exactly is involved in a class 1 medical?
im heading to ptc but just need a class one. im getting corrective vision done so im not worried about that. but whatelse do ya need to pass?

cp251

im getting corrective vision done so im not worried about that. but whatelse do ya need to pass?

Hold on! I'm not completely up to speed on the vision requirements for the JAA but if you mean you are getting glasses. Then that's fine. But if you mean laser treatment. I suggest you get in touch with the Aeromedical section in the Mater before you do anything. There are some restrictions I know. Best to ask before you commit to any surgery.

As for the rest, well to be frank unless you have some problem you are already aware of. Most people pass easily.

Ironic considering your question the one thing you need to worry about is your eyesight.

hano

IF YOUR GETTING LASER SURGERY DONE IT MUST BE LASEK AND NOT LASIK. IM SORTED FOR THAT BUT IM JUST WORRYING ABOUT THE REST OF IT. I DONT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS! NOT THAT IM AWARE OF

ImDave

hano wrote: »

IF YOUR GETTING LASER SURGERY DONE IT MUST BE LASEK AND NOT LASIK. IM SORTED FOR THAT BUT IM JUST WORRYING ABOUT THE REST OF IT. I DONT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS! NOT THAT IM AWARE OF

The Class 1 isn't too bad. Just don't forget to bring these :cool: with you!

electric69

hano wrote: »

does any1 know what exactly is involved in a class 1 medical?
im heading to ptc but just need a class one. im getting corrective vision done so im not worried about that. but whatelse do ya need to pass?

Hearing, eyesight, bloods taken, ECG, Lung capacity, and LOTS of waiting around