The Renault VRT Rip-off begins! Who Will Follow?

Bee

The Renault VRT Rip-off begins! Who Will Follow?

From the www.simi.ie website and the Vehicle pricelist for February 2008

http://www.simi.ie/admin/files/PriceGuideFeb08.xls

The Renault Laguna III is priced at 1.5 dCi 110 ROYALE 5DR €26,590

Today on the Renault website
http://www.renault.ie/specialoffers.asp

The Renault Laguna III 1.5 dCi 110 ROYALE 5DR for April is increased to €28,590!!!

A staggering €3000 rip off increase for April but they are now claiming “A great Special Offer” buy now and get the July price of, wait for it 26590!

Renault obviously believe that Irish motorists are total idiots and will buy their cars based on a pretend increase in April and a pretend reduction in July

Any comments anyone

meathstevie

Given the example set by it's predecessor I wouldn't even want to look at one... . Give me a German or a Jap any day. Ok, that's a bit irrational and ott but I don't think they'll be the only bunch up tot this lark.

ninty9er

Bee wrote: »

Renault obviously believe that Irish motorists are total idiots and will buy their cars based on a pretend increase in April and a pretend reduction in July

Any comments anyone

I believe Renault's belief is correct.

JHMEG

Never thought I'd agree with 99er..

BrianD3

There is no rip off. In Ireland Renault was selling the Laguna III DCi 110 at a cut price to make up for the fact that there was no 1.6 petrol model. Just compare the price of the base model diesel Laguna with a base model diesel 407, Mondeo, Passat or any of its other diesel competitors, the Laguna was thousands cheaper. It's now going up to what it should have been all along and even at 28,590 its still a grand cheaper than the cheapest diesel 407 and nearly 2 grand cheaper than the cheapest diesel Passat. After July the Laguna wil have a greater price advantage as it will be in the 16% VRT bracket unlike most of its competitors.

E92

1) The Laguna has gone up by €2,000 not €3,000 as stated.

2) Renault launched the 1.5 dCi at that lower price on purpose because they had no 1.6 petrol to compete against the Mondeo and Avensis at the time of the car's introduction. They were always going to sell the 1.5 dCi for the proper price once the 1.6 petrol got in. They said so at the time of launching the car, well at least that's what I seem to remember reading in the Motoring sections of various Irish newspapers.

3) Even using the "increased" prices Renault seem not to be passing on the full savings.

By the VRT link in my sig, if you type in even the cheapest Laguna at €28,950 you should be getting around another €800 off the car. If you get to the most expensive model, the 1.5 dCi Estate there should be roughly another €1,200 available off the €2k saving they're talking about.

Now to be fair to Renault, the other cars mentioned that you can save on actually end up costing less than what my VRT thing guessed they would(and that's what it is, a very educated guess and nothing more), which makes it all the more odd that the Laguna hasn't decreased by more in price.

JHMEG

If they could sell it cheap before, why can't they keep selling it cheap?

colm_mcm

JHMEG wrote: »

If they could sell it cheap before, why can't they keep selling it cheap?

It may come as a shock, but car companies have to make money. The discount on the 1.5 diesel models was only ever meant to be a temporary measure.

ninty9er

colm_mcm wrote: »

It may come as a shock, but car companies have to make money.

Has someone notified Ford and GM:D:D

Churchy

Easy solution.......dont buy em.

Guy:Incognito

Churchy wrote: »

Easy solution.......dont buy em.

Or any car from a company tha makes profit. It might come as a shock but very few cars if any are sold as cheaply as they possibley could be.

landydef

Stekelly wrote: »

Or any car from a company tha makes profit. It might come as a shock but very few cars if any are sold as cheaply as they possibley could be.

not as simple as that,the irish car industry is riddled with cartells and price fixing within brands,sure they have to make a profit like any business but when you hear what they get up to it would make you physically sick!

Tipsy Mac

I think whats happening here is Renault is trying to control people coming into Ireland and buying cheap cars pre VAT/VRT for export.

Guy:Incognito

landydef wrote: »

not as simple as that,the irish car industry is riddled with cartells and price fixing within brands,sure they have to make a profit like any business but when you hear what they get up to it would make you physically sick!

Do you honestly think any of these things are unique to the Irish market?

landydef

no but it doesnt mean we should put up with it just because it happens elsewhere,there is investigations underway at the moment in ireland into a number of car companys doing this!

bazz26

Even at the discounted rate I haven't seen too many 08 Laguna III on the road, cannot image that number increasing now that they have risen the price. I reckon the new C5 will outsell it.

Henry Ford III

Didn't lexus jack up the price od an IS220D a while ago?

Guy:Incognito

bazz26 wrote: »

I reckon the new C5 will outsell it.

Well the Irish do seem to have an irrational affinity with German cars in fairness.:)

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

It may come as a shock, but car companies have to make money. The discount on the 1.5 diesel models was only ever meant to be a temporary measure.

Were they not making money on it at the old price?

At the old price it was still a grand dearer than the 1.6 petrol?

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

Were they not making money on it at the old price?

At the old price it was still a grand dearer than the 1.6 petrol?

Theres a 3 grand difference in the Mondeo entry level petrol and diesel, so car companies obviously feel it's a good balance.

I dont see the big deal. They had an introductory offer thats now finished, whats the problem? Do people go into shops after sales an demand to know why the prices cant be the same?

JHMEG

Ah right... they were making money, just not enough money. I would very much doubt if the 1.5 diesel costs more than a grand more to make than the 1.6 petrol.

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

Ah right... they were making money, just not enough money. I would very much doubt if the 1.5 diesel costs more than a grand more to make than the 1.6 petrol.

Why not start a campaign against all the car manufacturers to show exactly how much each car costs to make and only allow them a certain percentage of profit?

Diesel cars have always been a good bit dearer than petrol equivelants, why is it only an issue now? Did you really need Renault selling one cheap for a bit to get you to notice?

JHMEG

Stekelly wrote: »

Diesel cars have always been a good bit dearer than petrol equivelants, why is it only an issue now? Did you really need Renault selling one cheap for a bit to get you to notice?

The gap between diesel engines and petrol engines in manufacturing costs has narrowed considerably, yet the purchase price hasn't. I'm not the first to bring this up, and it was brought up long before now in the press. So don't be kidding yourself or trying to kid me.

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

The gap between diesel engines and petrol engines in manufacturing costs has narrowed considerably, yet the purchase price hasn't. I'm not the first to bring this up, and it was brought up long before now in the press. So don't be kidding yourself or trying to kid me.

I'm not tryign to kid anyone, tbh it doesnt really interest me, but it seems to bother you so why not do somthing. I assume the 3 k difference I saw with a quick glance at the Ford site is much the same across the board.

Seeing as I used the Ford example here I checked Ford UK and theres a stg£1,100 difference in the UK too.

Bee

ninty9er wrote: »

I believe Renault's belief is correct.

Actually a good point, anyone who buys a Laguna anyway has to be a total dick!

Bee

BrianD3 wrote: »

There is no rip off. In Ireland Renault was selling the Laguna III DCi 110 at a cut price to make up for the fact that there was no 1.6 petrol model. Just compare the price of the base model diesel Laguna with a base model diesel 407, Mondeo, Passat or any of its other diesel competitors, the Laguna was thousands cheaper. It's now going up to what it should have been all along and even at 28,590 its still a grand cheaper than the cheapest diesel 407 and nearly 2 grand cheaper than the cheapest diesel Passat. After July the Laguna wil have a greater price advantage as it will be in the 16% VRT bracket unlike most of its competitors.

You are paid by Renault fo rposting that nonsense then?

Bee

JHMEG wrote: »

If they could sell it cheap before, why can't they keep selling it cheap?

They can, they want to rip you off!

Bee

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

I think whats happening here is Renault is trying to control people coming into Ireland and buying cheap cars pre VAT/VRT for export.

Are getting close to...but oh my Gawd! You are not suggesting a possible cartell operation? Surely that would never happen here?

Err you better not read this then....Obviously no person could possibly believe or be suspicious of or in any way suggest that Renaults good name would be impinged in any way what so ever for any reason that Renault could be involved in any way with such despical things as found out here in these links aboout other dastardley deeds. I am not suggesting that Boards.ie or anyone else involved or users could in anyway believe Reanault is a but a fair and honest dealership ( apart from some interesting pricing)

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2007/02/10/story25191.asp

"A CLASSIC cartel designed to corrupt the market and squeeze consumers of cars was operated by the Irish Ford Dealers’ Association, a Circuit Criminal Court judge said yesterday."


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/payouts-likely-if-dealers-guilty-in-car-probe-1264525.html

"Thousands of owners of Citroen cars could be in line for compensation if 11 Citroen dealers are found to have conspired to fix prices at artificially high levels. "

Bee

Stekelly wrote: »

Theres a 3 grand difference in the Mondeo entry level petrol and diesel, so car companies obviously feel it's a good balance.

I dont see the big deal. They had an introductory offer thats now finished, whats the problem? Do people go into shops after sales an demand to know why the prices cant be the same?

The problem is that it is basically price gouging and an affront to Johhny "Gob$hite" Gormless, Mini Min of the Environment's VRT changes to encourage lower CO2 car emissions whilst increasing pollutants that kill people

Diesel=Lower C02 good for global warming (if you believe that stuff)
Diesel=Bad fumes for Humans

colm_mcm

Bee: A group of dealers fixing prices and a distributor changing the price of a model are completely different.

Bee

Stekelly wrote: »

Why not start a campaign against all the car manufacturers to show exactly how much each car costs to make and only allow them a certain percentage of profit?

Diesel cars have always been a good bit dearer than petrol equivelants, why is it only an issue now? Did you really need Renault selling one cheap for a bit to get you to notice?

Personally its not an issue for me now, I believe the general public should be made aware of Renault_Ripp_Off_Motoring

I have been enjoyably motoring in diesels for years as I always enjoyed their superior torque and efficiency viv-a-vis petrol

Most central european countries enjoy a 65% Diesel more diesel engined cars over petrol cars so its just bull droppin's when a car dealer in Ireland sez diesels are more expensive to produce than a petol model. On average in the EU diesel hold greater than 50% even when you exclude the vast fleet of lorries etc

Bluefoam

Surely if you are buying a car, you will compare the price with other similar cars from differnt brands. If the car you want doesn't compare favourably, don't buy it...

Guy:Incognito

Bee wrote: »

You are paid by Renault fo rposting that nonsense then?

Why dont you explain how it's nonsense instead of just throwing insults around? It was known and posted about here when the Laguna was launched(price)

Then maybe come up with an amusign response (it's bound to be given the rest of your posts in the thread) to Coln's last post.

How about one for my comparison of a shop having a sale?

If you've been buying diesels for years you'll be well aware that diesels are dearer with all makes.
Why is it price gouging to charge more for a diesel? Why is it not price gouging to charge more for a 1.8 petrol over a 1.6?

JHMEG

Stekelly wrote: »

Why is it price gouging to charge more for a diesel? Why is it not price gouging to charge more for a 1.8 petrol over a 1.6?

The diesel will have no extras. The 1.8 will over the 1.6.

I asked an Opel salesman a while back about the 1.3 Astra vs the 1.4 Astra. He said the equipment is identical but the diesel is 3 grand dearer.

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

The diesel will have no extras. The 1.8 will over the 1.6.

.

Not nessecarily. If you buy the same model in both the only difference should be the engine. Differences may come in when , as some manufacturers do, they dont offer the base spec in the larger engine.

Just checked the Renault site and the Scenic in 1.4 and 1.6 Dynamique has a €1500 price difference.
The Mondeo carries a €3k premium for diesel in LX spec over the 1.6 petrol. Theres a 3.5k increase in the 2.0 over the 1.6 in the petrol estate, why no outrage?

Anyway, I dont see what the issue is with diesel being dearer or cheaper. Your not buying the same thing as if your buying it with a petrol engine so why do people expect it to be the same price?

Green Hornet

Bee wrote: »

Actually a good point, anyone who buys a Laguna anyway has to be a total dick!

Dead right!:D

BrianD3

Bee wrote: »

You are paid by Renault fo rposting that nonsense then?

No, but if I see a silly twat posting bullsh*t, I'll pull them up on it.

Intsead of posting sensationalist crap about RIP OFF RENAULT why don't you look at the facts. The Laguna was thousands cheaper than its competitors, the reasons for this have been explained already and not just by me. (I suppose E92 works for Renault as well does he)

Now the expected increase has happened and the car is still cheaper than its rivals. It's 2 grand less than the cheapest diesel passat, 1 grand cheaper than the cheapest diesel 407. So now who's ripping people off.

As for needing to be a d1ck to own a Laguna - what do you drive then. Maybe I'll go through your posting history andd see if you;ve mentioned what you drive and fling a few insults around.

unkel

Bee wrote: »

anyone who buys a Laguna anyway has to be a total dick!

Bee nice or bee banned!

Bee

unkel wrote: »

Bee nice or bee banned!

Apologies about being blunt!

How about based upon the known reliability ratings vis-a-vis the JD Power survey's and many others Laguna's have a very poor rating in comparision to many other models in the same range from other manufacturers

JD Power 200712 Renault Laguna
Rating 78.6%
Overall ranking 65th=
Like the Mondeo, the Laguna rated as below average in just two categories. Owners' complaints centred on the high running costs and the interior build quality. On top of that, no other car in the class had as many problems with its transmission.

Bee

Stekelly wrote: »

Anyway, I dont see what the issue is with diesel being dearer or cheaper. Your not buying the same thing as if your buying it with a petrol engine so why do people expect it to be the same price?

Look at my original post and you can see that Renault upped their price for April and then said they were reducing it as a "Special offer" but as it turns out back to what it was in February/March

If you think that is a good way of selling fair enough I call it a blatent rip-off and they are not passing on the vrt reduction because of it.

If you want to have a pop at what i drive go ahead but I would like you to keep to the original post we have 4 cars at home and I drivetwo of them (not I might add simultaneously!) obviously we are a family

A Honda Accord 2,2, diesel
A Volvo Luxo Barge c70

Anyone else spot anyone like Renault being naughty?

BigglesMcGee

Mate of mine in RTE told me Prime Time are watching this whole VRT and price changes very closely. They have a special in the pipeline.

Bee

Bluefoam wrote: »

Surely if you are buying a car, you will compare the price with other similar cars from differnt brands. If the car you want doesn't compare favourably, don't buy it...

Good post, but if someone sold you a pint of Guinness on Monday and knew the tax was going down at the weekend, then cynically and artificially increased the price for the rest of the week and then pretended to reduce the price because of the tax decrease back to Monday' price you would take your business elsewhere!

Of if you didn't I will be happy to sell you several items:D

Bee

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Mate of mine in RTE told me Prime Time are watching this whole VRT and price changes very closely. They have a special in the pipeline.

Fair dues...send them a link!

BrianD3

Bee wrote: »

Good post, but if someone sold you a pint of Guinness on Monday and knew the tax was going down at the weekend, then cynically and artificially increased the price for the rest of the week and then pretended to reduce the price because of the tax decrease back to Monday' price you would take your business elsewhere!

Of if you didn't I will be happy to sell you several items:D

Are you retarded? There's no artificial price increase the CAR INCREASED TO THE PRICE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT ALL ALONG AND EVEN AT THIS HIGHER PRICE WAS STILL CHEAPER THAN MUCH OF THE OPPOSITION.

Now it's come down again in anticipation of the new regs and you're still moaning. Do you also moan when you see a pair of shoes in a sale, see them go back up to the normal price and then come back down again in a subsequent sale.

I can see how Renault have made a mistake here, they should have anticipated that this changing around of prices would confuse stupid people.

However when the Laguna III was launched the new VRT regs had not been announced and as already stated several times there was no 1.6 engine which would have been the biggest seller in the Irish market. So they reduce the price of the 1.5 DCi as a temporary measure. Then budget day comes - big changes, the VRT on the 1.5 DCi Laguna is set to drop significantly, there is now no need for a 1.6. But Renault are already selling the DCi at a lower price. It has to go up sometime but stupid people expect the VRT reduction to apply on top of the already discounted price and ring up Joe Duffy/post on boards.ie to complain.

And BEE, I see you have a daughter that is old enough to drive (you previously posted asking for advice about your daughter's car, funnily enough I wasted a few minutes of my time posting constructive advice for you) You'd think you'd be now old enough not to go around referring to people as "total d1cks" because of the car they drive. I wonder why you feel the need to slag off what people drive - Mid life crisis you're going through is it? The Menopause or something?

JHMEG

BrianD3 wrote: »

Are you retarded?

That kind of comment deserves a ban imho.

However, I can't understand how people are defending Renault's move, just because Renault said "we'll sell it cheap to begin with". I've no doubt Renault have always made a profit on it, and this is a way for them to make more profit, just like the other marques. They use the justification that it's a diesel and hence costs more. And most people are ok with that...

BrianD3

Newsflash for JHMEG: Renault is not a charity, it exists to make profit. If the Laguna diesel is too dear it will sell poorly and Renault will be forced into rethinking prices. I think it's time for you to do some reading up on market forces, capitalism etc.

Your moaning about how diesels are too dear relative to petrols is laughable. If the petrol Laguna was closer to the diesel in price, people would be saying that Renault had hiked up the price of the petrol.:rolleyes:

Also unless you have some inside knowledge on exactly how much it costs Renault to make a diesel Laguna relative to a petrol then most of your comments in this thread are irrelevant. And what does it matter to you whether renault make 5% or 50% profit on every Laguna.

JHMEG

BrianD3 wrote: »

Also unless you have some inside knowledge on exactly how much it costs Renault to make a diesel Laguna relative to a petrol

Do you? For all you know it might be cheaper to make the diesel, but yet you relentlessly defend it.

BrianD3

It doesn't matter whether it's cheaper to make the diesel or not. Re-read the bit about market forces.

And who are you to decide what is excessive profit? You constantly promote/defend Honda in this forum, I suppose Honda doesn't try to maximise profits :rolleyes:

JHMEG

BrianD3 wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether it's cheaper to make the diesel or not. Re-read the bit about market forces.

I have a problem with excessive profits and people defending those who make them.

BrianD3

Vote for the Socialist party so.

JHMEG

More effective to vote with my wallet.