Chinese people's protest

yawtin

Did anybody see any news about Chinese people's protest in front of GPO yet?

My estimation is about 1000 people attended it. No news reporter were seen at the scene.

We were told not to shout anything to do with protesting against "free tibet", in case the protest go out of control. The main messages we were trying to send included "welcome to China/Beijing", " Support Beijing Olympics","No politics", "China we love you", etc. Many other slogans, such as "we want media justice", "respect china, respect Olympics", "peace and love" etc, were considered too hard to follow therefore not used.

Most Irish people seem to be shocked. I saw one woman stick finger at us. Another one said we should march for democracy.

A very old lady took her prayer's necklace out and she was obviously angery. She said we were invaders of Tibet and shame on us. Am I wrong to think she thought we were devils and the necklace can frighten us away?

I guess many Irish would be very annoyed because we, Chinese, were demostrating and causing traffic blockage and noices. but sorry, if that is the only way that our opinion can be heard, we have to do it.

Western media has decided to turn a blind eye on us and our opinion, that is why I am here to communicate with you, to try to at least get people to consider the possibility that might be a different version of the China story.

One more link for you: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LZf_Ag7SmxI

wes

There was a demonstration about solidarity with Palestinians (LINK), and it wasn't on the media either. So it doesn't look like there is a bias against just you guys, but I can only assume the protests weren't of interest to the media for whatever reasons.

Still, good to see that you were able to protest without too much trouble.

Denis Irwin

wes wrote: »

Still, good to see that you were able to protest without too much trouble.

At least they're able to protest without the fear of having the crap beaten out of them unlike in some of the countries which China supports.

wes

Denis Irwin wrote: »

At least they're able to protest without the fear of having the crap beaten out of them unlike in some of the countries which China supports.

I wonder if we could go to China and have a Pro-Tibet or Pro-Uighur protest, with the same ease.

Thirdfox

wes wrote: »

There was a demonstration about solidarity with Palestinians (LINK), and it wasn't on the media either. So it doesn't look like there is a bias against just you guys, but I can only assume the protests weren't of interest to the media for whatever reasons.

Still, good to see that you were able to protest without too much trouble.

Sorry to correct you - the Palestinian protest was mentioned on Newstalk - it had around 150 people gathered around to hear the speakers give a speech (including Senator David Norris - Newstalk informs me). On the other hand I have not heard anything about the Chinese demonstrations which were much larger.

On the other hand - I am a *journalist* working for a newspaper (albeit a college run one). I am in the process of writing up the article at this moment and have a few pictures of the day. I just spotted one incident but on the whole it passed off without any trouble.

To be fair - I didn't see much coverage of the pro-Tibetan protests that took place 2(?) weeks ago through Dawson street.

edit:
Today seemed like THE day for protests - I saw an anti-abortion one, the Chinese one, the Palestinian one and a Cannabis legalisation one.

Anyway here's an example of what happened today (there were two groups of Chinese people on both sides of the street):


There are more pictures if you follow click on this picture.

wes

Thirdfox wrote: »

Sorry to correct you - the Palestinian protest was mentioned on Newstalk - it had around 150 people gathered around to hear the speakers give a speech (including Senator David Norris - Newstalk informs me). On the other hand I have not heard anything about the Chinese demonstrations which were much larger.

On the other hand - I am a *journalist* working for a newspaper (albeit a college run one). I am in the process of writing up the article at this moment and have a few pictures of the day. I just spotted one incident but on the whole it passed off without any trouble.

To be fair - I didn't see much coverage of the pro-Tibetan protests that took place 2(?) weeks ago through Dawson street.

Well, I got it wrong then. Didn't see any coverage of it.

Fair enough, maybe the op has a point then. Was the media informed of the protest btw?

I saw a lot of posters for the Palestinians one all round town for the last week, but have not see anything for the pro-China protest.

Thirdfox

I have no idea whether the media were informed or not - I wasn't informed through official media channels anyway. (Btw I'm not involved in the demonstrations at all - I'm just reporting on what happened and interviewing people there).

A Dub in Glasgo

At least this did not happen when you protested in Dublin



http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9620/tiananmenrv4.jpg

yawtin

A bit more information about Dalai Lama and his Democratic ruling in Dharamsala, India:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sOm-uQH9Y&eurl=http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=mychina&MsgID=261320


All I want to say is, if you don't really understand what you are supporting or against, don't make up your opinion too quickly.

wes

Thirdfox wrote: »

I have no idea whether the media were informed or not - I wasn't informed through official media channels anyway. (Btw I'm not involved in the demonstrations at all - I'm just reporting on what happened and interviewing people there).

Would you mind posting a link to your article in this thread, when your done? Would be interested to read some of the details.

Thirdfox

It's probably going to be in paper format - but they may put it up on www.therecord.ie (Trinity's local newspaper). (Might have to wait some time though).

I will not try to talk about the whole issue of Tibet (that would take a whole supplement, if not a book) but I'll try to present what many Chinese people feel about the situation (something that I had felt was lacking in the media here). An 800 word limit won't give you much chance to say everything that needs to be said but hopefully I can give a balanced Chinese view.

Tomas_V

yawtin wrote: »

All I want to say is, if you don't really understand what you are supporting or against, don't make up your opinion too quickly.

I wonder if the Chinese demonstrators had a sufficient knowledge of Irish history to appreciate the absurdity of them using the GPO as a place to celebrate a major superpower.

yawtin

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

At least this did not happen when you protested in Dublin

.

See link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8-k6nUzX8g

The title says: "who can say the Chinese Army is ruthless?". Most Chinese people who saw it said could not believe they were fooled by CNN for so many years.

Surely you never saw any report on soldiers in those tanks been burnt alive inside, just because they were ordered not to fire.

I know students who witnessed the violence on the Square. They said they were sad about what the govenment did but if they did not crack the uprise down, China is probably using US Dollars now.

CIA is involved in Tiananmen Uprise, Darfur problem, Free Tibet and Falungong movement, and there is plenty of evidence. We are from a country that is under attack, we will do our best to protect our country's interest.

OK-Cancel-Apply

I was there! It was huge, and definitely newsworthy. I heard Joe Public moaning and groaning a bit, but nothing more than the usual stock lines and opinions.

A man with a Northern Irish accent passed by wheeling a breathing apparatus shouting 'Free Tibet!', and some of the crowded turned around and shouted angrily. One guy had a brief history of Tibet written on his t-shirt, and showed it to the N.I. guy (who wasn't interested).

I really got the feeling that the Chinese community feels very strongly about the anti-Chinese media campaign, and rightly so. They are not 'brainwashed' either.

Tomas_V

yawtin wrote: »

We are from a country that is under attack, we will do our best to protect our country's interest.

Are you aware of the significance of the GPO site?:rolleyes:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

no, of course not. it's just a happy coincidence they are bleating the state line.

MasterSun

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

At least this did not happen when you protested in Dublin



http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9620/tiananmenrv4.jpg

check this video out,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SbX0gAk3zRA

2 of the student leaders said they were on the square on the day of 6.4
but they did Not see any killing.
ps. this video was filmed outside China.

Grudaire

yawtin wrote: »

Western media has decided to turn a blind eye on us and our opinion, that is why I am here to communicate with you, to try to at least get people to consider the possibility that might be a different version of the China story.

One more link for you: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LZf_Ag7SmxI

Western medias: "China has only three major airports because China spends his money on educating young communists"

Out of curiosity wtf? This link is actually propaganda, this isn't an unbiased link explaining why we are all wrong, this is actually why the 'west' as you call us find it hard to well empatise with you.

Thirdfox

Tomas_V wrote: »

Are you aware of the significance of the GPO site?:rolleyes:

1916 uprising and declaration of independence.

Nowadays though it is used a forum where people can air their grievances (whether they be pro-Tibet, anti-abortion, pro-Palestinian or others) in a central place.

Unless of course you're suggesting it be reserved for declarations of independence only?

Tomas_V

Thirdfox wrote: »

1916 uprising and declaration of independence.

1916 uprising against a superpower (which claimed ancient rights to dominate Ireland) that suppressed the religious and economic freedom of the people. Put down with excessive force, but inspired the ultimate independence of a small nation.:D

I'm sure there are less inappropriate places in Dublin for a superpower to protest about unflattering media stories.

yawtin

Thirdfox wrote: »

An 800 word limit won't give you much chance to say everything that needs to be said but hopefully I can give a balanced Chinese view.

Thanks. that is certainly needed. I suppose we just don't have enough experience on organising protests to know we actually have to imform you. I thought the media here is suppose to go to the news scene as it happens.

Tomas_V wrote: »

I wonder if the Chinese demonstrators had a sufficient knowledge of Irish history to appreciate the absurdity of them using the GPO as a place to celebrate a major superpower.

You are not convinced, are you? Tibet has been officially part of our history since 12th Century. Tibet claimed independence in 1913 as they were encouraged by the British Colonizers from India. No government in China had ever proved the self-declared independency. Tibet has never been recognized as a country internationally, not even before Communists took power.

CIA want FREE TIBET movement to cause trouble for China. Is it right to support them? Mind you, the last tool they used was Falungong, this time it is Free Tibet, and guess what, some so-called "student leaders" from Tiananmen Uprise have supported both. And CIA give them all funding.

Grudaire

yawtin wrote: »

CIA want FREE TIBET movement to cause trouble for China. Is it right to support them? Mind you, the last tool they used was Falungong, this time it is Free Tibet, and guess what, some so-called "student leaders" from Tiananmen Uprise have supported both. And CIA give them all funding.

bad/evil/etc CIA !=(not equals) good China

Sure just because Irish republicans got help from the Germans you can't say the Irish were wrong(WW1 i refer to)

jam_mac_jam

yawtin wrote: »

.

See link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8-k6nUzX8g

The title says: "who can say the Chinese Army is ruthless?". Most Chinese people who saw it said could not believe they were fooled by CNN for so many years.

Surely you never saw any report on soldiers in those tanks been burnt alive inside, just because they were ordered not to fire.

I know students who witnessed the violence on the Square. They said they were sad about what the govenment did but if they did not crack the uprise down, China is probably using US Dollars now.

CIA is involved in c Uprise, Darfur problem, Free Tibet and Falungong movement, and there is plenty of evidence. We are from a country that is under attack, we will do our best to protect our country's interest.

You are making the protest a joke with such silly statements, where is the evidence for the CIA in Darfur? What exactly would their motive be?

I am very glad I live in a country where democracy exists and you can protest so freely, about any issue just be grateful for that and the fact your own goverment does not allow it.

Yes there is a Chinese side to the Tibet issue but comments like the CIA did it all just makes your arguement sound ridiculous and like a cliche of a red gaurd.

Tomas_V

yawtin wrote: »

You are not convinced, are you? Tibet has been officially part of our history since 12th Century. Tibet claimed independence in 1913 as they were encouraged by the British Colonizers from India. No government in China had ever proved the self-declared independency. Tibet has never been recognized as a country internationally, not even before Communists took power.

You're missing the irony. Irish patriots declared independence at the GPO even though Ireland had not been recognised internationally at that time and had been part of the United Kingdom and governed by Britain for hundreds of years.

And you chose this location to assert Chinese domination of Tibet?

In politics, this kind of mistake is referred to as an 'own goal'.

Fire your media handlers.

Grudaire

yawtin wrote: »

.

See link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8-k6nUzX8g

The title says: "who can say the Chinese Army is ruthless?". Most Chinese people who saw it said could not believe they were fooled by CNN for so many years.

Surely you never saw any report on soldiers in those tanks been burnt alive inside, just because they were ordered not to fire.

Lets not get ahead of overselves now:

* 4,000 to 6,000 civilians killed - Edward Timperlake.[15]
* 2,600 had officially died by the morning of June 4 (later denied) - the Chinese Red Cross.[10] An unnamed Chinese Red Cross official estimated that, in total, 5,000 people killed and 30,000 injured.[16]
* 1,000 deaths - Amnesty International[10]
* 7,000 deaths (6,000 civilians and 1,000 soldiers) - NATO intelligence.[15]
* 10,000 deaths in total - Soviet Bloc estimates.[15]
* in excess of 3,700 killed, excluding disappearance or secret deaths and those denied of medical treatment - PLA defector citing a document circulating among officers.[15]
* 186 named individuals confirmed dead as at the end of June 2006 - Professor Ding Zilin.[17]

(from Wiki)

Oh vs:

0 deaths - two student leaders on State Tv

OK-Cancel-Apply

Tomas_V wrote: »

1916 uprising against a superpower (which claimed ancient rights to dominate Ireland) that suppressed the religious and economic freedom of the people. Put down with excessive force, but inspired the ultimate independence of a small nation.:D

I'm sure there are less inappropriate places in Dublin for a superpower to protest about unflattering media stories.

The Chinese community here in Dublin has every right to protest outside the GPO. What you said looks quite bullying TBH, especially when Chinese viewpoint does not get airtime here.

the_syco

Cliste wrote: »

0 deaths - two student leaders on State Tv

[sarc]Lets believe the student leaders, then. They wouldn't want to lie on State TV[/sarc]

Oh, and how's Google these days in China? Still controlled by the government?

lonesome

Thirdfox wrote: »

It's probably going to be in paper format - but they may put it up on www.therecord.ie (Trinity's local newspaper). (Might have to wait some time though).

I will not try to talk about the whole issue of Tibet (that would take a whole supplement, if not a book) but I'll try to present what many Chinese people feel about the situation (something that I had felt was lacking in the media here)

well, "Free Media" has right to determine what to broadcast to the public.

Tomas_V

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

The Chinese community here in Dublin has every right to protest outside the GPO. What you said looks quite bullying

Bullying? How so? I did not say you cannot demonstrate.

You're quite free to demonstrate in Dublin and equally so, you're free to choose venues that are inappropriate from a historical point of view.

Did you get a chance to read the Proclamation of Independence while you were there?

Thirdfox

lonesome wrote: »

well, "Free Media" has right to determine what to broadcast to the public.

Indeed - if it so chooses to self-censor itself then since we live in a more free society than in China (let us not forget that no Chinese person will argue that it's less free in Ireland) we can criticise the media and put forward our own views.

And if chooses to give half-truths and misinformation, well, we can react to that too. Chinese propaganda and "free media" (what you call it) propaganda is still propaganda at the end of the day - just because they willingly choose to distort the situation doesn't make them any less culpable (and if I may argue, they are in fact more so).

OK-Cancel-Apply

Tomas_V wrote: »

Bullying? How so? I did not say you cannot demonstrate.

You're quite free to demonstrate in Dublin and equally so, you're free to choose venues that are inappropriate from a historical point of view.

Did you get a chance to read the Proclamation of Independence while you were there?

It appeared as though you were trying to intimidate them out of going there again, as the site is too 'sacred' to the Irish.

And no, I'm not Chinese. Funny, people always think I'm Muslim too when I speak out against the war or against Muslim-bashing.

I dunno, maybe it's just that I've been to many countries all around the world, and have seen that they're not as bad as we think they are.

lonesome

Thirdfox wrote: »

Indeed - if it so chooses to self-censor itself then since we live in a more free society than in China (let us not forget that no Chinese person will argue that it's less free in Ireland) we can criticise the media and put forward our own views.

And if chooses to give half-truths and misinformation, well, we can react to that too. Chinese propaganda and "free media" (what you call it) propaganda is still propaganda at the end of the day - just because they willingly choose to distort the situation doesn't make them any less culpable (and if I may argue, they are in fact more so).

well, it just proves that the Western Free Media as ugly as Chinese official grip

Thirdfox

But I believe in better for "Free Media". They have a duty to act better than their Chinese counterparts if they want to have the ability to criticise others (and I see the BBC shifting their editorial position very recently, I believe that's an encouraging sign).

I would rather live in Ireland than China, no doubt about it. But that doesn't mean Ireland is perfect or its systems infallible. And when it fails we have a democratic duty to help it restore its integrity and principles.

Oh and I'm Irish by the way (although a lovely lady did tell me I'm not "really" Irish today )

yawtin

Cliste wrote: »

bad/evil/etc CIA !=(not equals) good China

You are right, China is far away from being good. But it is improving all the time. And what do you mean by China here? Its people or its government? If it is the government you are refering to, at least it has most people's support. If it is the people you are talking about, then thank you very much, I appreciate your command.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You are making the protest a joke with such silly statements, where is the evidence for the CIA in Darfur? What exactly would their motive be?.

Oil and politics, and probably money too. China's influence in Africa has been so big now that African people can finally bargain with the European Colonizers now. I hope you do remember that a French NGO was accused for human trafficing Darfur childen for european people to adopt, and that they purposefully exaggerated the situation there so they can sell their babies more quickly.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I am very glad I live in a country where democracy exists and you can protest so freely, about any issue just be grateful for that and the fact your own goverment does not allow it.

I suppose it is hard for you to image how much we can actually protest on the internet in China. Our central government does try to get more democracy into the society in general but on the local level there is a lot of resistance. I believe democracy will be properly established in China within 20 years, and it is going to happen without too much distruction and the involvement of foreign interests.

I am quite proud of My governmen. They have led our 1.33 billion people ( more than the entire developed world together) to a better, more comfortable life, most people benefited from the last 30 years. If you think your government can do the same job, let me know.

Tomas_V wrote: »

You're missing the irony. Irish patriots declared independence at the GPO even though Ireland had not been recognised internationally at that time and had been part of the United Kingdom and governed by Britain for hundreds of years.

And you chose this location to assert Chinese domination of Tibet?

In politics, this kind of mistake is referred to as an 'own goal'.

Fire your media handlers.

To be honest to you I believe most of the 6 million Tibetans live in China now live a better life than the Dalai dictatorial government, and most of them would rather be Chinese. The only way for you to find out about this is to go to Tibet youself and talk to people there. Why don't you make your next holiday in Tibet? Tourism will be reopened from 1st of May

Cliste wrote: »

Lets not get ahead of overselves now:

* 4,000 to 6,000 civilians killed - Edward Timperlake.[15]
* 2,600 had officially died by the morning of June 4 (later denied) - the Chinese Red Cross.[10] An unnamed Chinese Red Cross official estimated that, in total, 5,000 people killed and 30,000 injured.[16]
* 1,000 deaths - Amnesty International[10]
* 7,000 deaths (6,000 civilians and 1,000 soldiers) - NATO intelligence.[15]
* 10,000 deaths in total - Soviet Bloc estimates.[15]
* in excess of 3,700 killed, excluding disappearance or secret deaths and those denied of medical treatment - PLA defector citing a document circulating among officers.[15]
* 186 named individuals confirmed dead as at the end of June 2006 - Professor Ding Zilin.[17]

(from Wiki).

Yes many people died in Tiananmen Square, yes the Chinese government handled the whole situation with a lot of stupidity, yes there is still a lot of human right issues in China.

The soldiers were ordered to fire in the air that day. One guy who witnessed it said some of the firings were a bit low and some people who did not get down got injured.

Do you know why it ended up that way? The government nearly agreed everything they possibly could agree on but some of the CIA backed student leaders want more power for themselves, they also ordered the government to agree with everything they demanded by June 4 and threatened them with revolution. Did your government achieve the Good Friday agreement with this kind of "NEGOCIATION"?

I can say with confidence that most of the students on the Square that day feel they are betrayed by their " leaders". They have moved on and many of them are happy about the current government. Will you ever move on too?

Grudaire

yawtin wrote: »

Do you know why it ended up that way? The government nearly agreed everything they possibly could agree on but some of the CIA backed student leaders want more power for themselves, they also ordered the government to agree with everything they demanded by June 4 and threatened them with revolution. Did your government achieve the Good Friday agreement with this kind of "NEGOCIATION"?

I can say with confidence that most of the students on the Square that day feel they are betrayed by their " leaders". They have moved on and many of them are happy about the current government. Will you ever move on too?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-China, I'm just not convinced by any of your arguments, If you back up all of that I'd be glad to preach the word that Tienanmen Square happened like that,

Now as for the North its a different situation, however if we go back to the start....

There once was a Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association(NICRA), who wanted equal rights for Catholics- ie an end to gerrymandering etc etc, Now they organised a march in Derry(the Derry March), which was forcibly put down by the government forces- the RUC, and we have the troubles, So in that sense the troubles were started by a similar thing to Tienanmen Square(to compare like with like)

Me move on from what!? (China is far enough away for me to just typr: ctrl-t miniclip.com and just mess about)

MasterSun

Cliste wrote: »

Lets not get ahead of overselves now:

* 4,000 to 6,000 civilians killed - Edward Timperlake.[15]
* 2,600 had officially died by the morning of June 4 (later denied) - the Chinese Red Cross.[10] An unnamed Chinese Red Cross official estimated that, in total, 5,000 people killed and 30,000 injured.[16]
* 1,000 deaths - Amnesty International[10]
* 7,000 deaths (6,000 civilians and 1,000 soldiers) - NATO intelligence.[15]
* 10,000 deaths in total - Soviet Bloc estimates.[15]
* in excess of 3,700 killed, excluding disappearance or secret deaths and those denied of medical treatment - PLA defector citing a document circulating among officers.[15]
* 186 named individuals confirmed dead as at the end of June 2006 - Professor Ding Zilin.[17]

(from Wiki)

Oh vs:

0 deaths - two student leaders on State Tv

u r wrong,
that video clip was not filmed by the Chinese state news-agency.

The 2 stu leaders only refereed that they did not see any killing in the square.


u have been fooled by ur western media!!

The Chinese government has never said that no-one was killed during the 98 incident, what the gov said was there was no deaths in the square. the clashes between soldiers and citizens were outside the square.
the gov estimated that the death toll is less than 700 people.

the western media played around the words, instead of saying there was no-one killed in the square, ur reporters reported that the Chinese gov said 0 deaths in China.

also form wiki, see below
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

extracted from wiki

The Chinese government has maintained that there were no deaths within the square itself, although videos taken there at the time recorded the sound of gunshots. Central Committee of the Communist Party of China and State Council claimed that "hundreds of PLA soldiers died and more were injured."[citation needed] Yuan Mu, the spokesman of the State Council, said that a total of about 300 people died, most of them soldiers, along with a number of people he described as "ruffians."[9] According to Chen Xitong, Beijing mayor, 200 civilians and several dozen soldiers died.[10] Other sources stated that 3,000 civilians and 6,000 soldiers injured.[11] In May 2007, CPPCC member from Hong Kong, Chang Ka-mun said 300 to 600 people were killed in Tiananmen Square. He echoed that "there were armed thugs who weren't students."[12]

Grudaire

MasterSun wrote: »

u r wrong,
that video clip was not filmed by the Chinese state agency.

They only refereed that they did not see any killing in the square.


u have been fooled!!

Interesting way of putting my wrongness, Yes however you are right,

Any idea what/who/where the video was for?

MasterSun

Cliste wrote: »

Interesting way of putting my wrongness, Yes however you are right,

Any idea what/who/where the video was for?

the video clip was a part of a documentary on the Tian An Men Incident. (can't remember the name of it, but it is quite famous. filmed in the early 90s)
believe it or not, u can buy it in black market in China.

the video crews traveled around the world, interviewed those who had taken part in the protest.

EamonnKeane

I don't think it's acceptable for an immigrant community to march not for their own rights but to complain about their home country's treatment in Irish media. It wasn't a productive exercise; the Irishman in the street would see it as indicating that the Chinese in Ireland have a greater allegiance to their home country than to this state.

A very old lady took her prayer's necklace out and she was obviously angery. She said we were invaders of Tibet and shame on us. Am I wrong to think she thought we were devils and the necklace can frighten us away?

I very much hope this is a joke.

Also, who organised the march?

MasterSun

EamonnKeane wrote: »

I don't think it's acceptable for an immigrant community to march not for their own rights but to complain about their home country's treatment in Irish media. It wasn't a productive exercise; the Irishman in the street would see it as indicating that the Chinese in Ireland have a greater allegiance to their home country than to this state.

I think there is nothing wrong to defend the good name of your home country.
Plus
it isn't solely an Anti-Media Bias march.
to promote the Olympic s's spirit,to promote peace and unity among people are also on the agenda.

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Also, who organised the march?

the idea was came up by a Chinese Student, he posted a thread on a Chinese website, then an organising committee was set up 2 weeks ago.
the Irish Chinese newspaper printed a poster for them and a few Chinese shops donated some money. soon every1 was talking about it, but no one knew exactly how many people would come to the march.

there are about 11000 Chinese people living in Ireland (2006 census)
from my observation, that roughly about 1200 people turned out. many Irish and other nationals joined us in the march as well.

Chris_Heilong

Well you see a lot of these people are not immigrants, They don’t plan to stay, just to earn as much money as possible and return to China to live a better life.

I’m very happy to see many Irish(I being one of em) on these boards have a very open mind about the whole China issue, I have seen so many boards on the net where (western) people seem to be bragging the same lines and free Tibet without question(also seem very anti-China from before the whole Tibet thing, maybe us Irish just dont have the same haterd for communism that the Americans seem to be brought up with), they wont hear any other side. I was having a conversation with someone about this and just tried to give a diffrent slant on the story so as to level out things and was verbally assaulted with insults, I wanted to go to see the Demo today but out of fear of being attack by my fellow countrymen:eek: for my support for China I choose to remain at home, Happy to hear no one got hurt and this better get shown on the news and not spindoctored as a lot of reports I have seen lately are.

Tomas_V

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

It appeared as though you were trying to intimidate them out of going there again, as the site is too 'sacred' to the Irish.

Your statement is typical of the kind of distortion the Chinese are applying to any criticism of their actions. I did not use any aggressive language, and I did not say the site was 'sacred'.

The Chinese are complaining that nobody listens to their message. I think the reason for this is that they are naive in matters of media and image. First, the choice of venue and second by not taking the trouble to contact the TV and radio stations and inviting them to come to their demonstration.

If their complaint is that the media ignores them, why not protest outside RTE?

yawtin wrote:

To be honest to you I believe most of the 6 million Tibetans live in China now live a better life than the Dalai dictatorial government, and most of them would rather be Chinese. The only way for you to find out about this is to go to Tibet youself and talk to people there.

OK, assuming I could speak Tibetan, could I go there and speak privately with individual Tibetans about their opinion of Tibetan independence? Western media states that any discussion of this subject is forbidden. Also, if I put this on my visa application as being the purpose of my visit, would there be any problem in being allowed into China?

MasterSun

Tomas_V wrote: »

OK, assuming I could speak Tibetan, could I go there and speak privately with individual Tibetans about their opinion of Tibetan independence? Western media states that any discussion of this subject is forbidden.

yes, if u go there as a tourist u could ask questions individually to the local people .
u don't think u need to know the Tibetan language. most Tibetans can speak Chinese and a few can speak English.

Tomas_V wrote: »

Also, if I put this on my visa application as being the purpose of my visit, would there be any problem in being allowed into China?

do not know about this
but i think
u may not be granted a Visitor's Visa, cause they may think u as a journalist and ask u to fill another visa application for reporters. (this is only my opinion)

mikemac

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Well you see a lot of these people are not immigrants, They don’t plan to stay, just to earn as much money as possible and return to China to live a better life.

And many on student visa's but working full-time which they are not supposed to do.
And many attending English language schools that exist only on paper.

It's been posted here by MasterSun that the 2006 Census shows 11,000 thousand Chinese people here. Could be far higher, nobody knows.

It's a relevant point, getting 1200 people to a rally is impressive. But I realy doubt the Chinese population in Ireland is so low as around 11,000 even if that figure is two years old

Grudaire

Sunday Times today- who say's western media hates ya!? (front page):D

joetal

MasterSun wrote: »

u r wrong,
that video clip was not filmed by the Chinese state news-agency.

The 2 stu leaders only refereed that they did not see any killing in the square.


u have been fooled by ur western media!!

The Chinese government has never said that no-one was killed during the 98 incident, what the gov said was there was no deaths in the square. the clashes between soldiers and citizens were outside the square.
the gov estimated that the death toll is less than 700 people.

the western media played around the words, instead of saying there was no-one killed in the square, ur reporters reported that the Chinese gov said 0 deaths in China.

also form wiki, see below
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

To say no one died inside the square as opposed to outside the square, how exactly does that make a difference? Several foreign journalists report that students and citizens alike were shot inside the square.

From Frontline interview with Jan Wong,

How many people do you think died, and can we be confident of a figure?
… I've written that 3,000 people died, … and I base that on a very early report by the Chinese Red Cross that was quickly suppressed. And then I talked to military attachés, and they did estimates based on crowd size, amount of shooting and kind of weaponry. And I don't mean just one. I mean about half a dozen of them got together and tried to figure it out. And then I got to know the figure because I contributed information, I took down time of gun fire, length of gunfire, that's what I was doing that night. I couldn't do anything else. I just sat there with my watch it was like watching the Olympics. You know, "Let me see, that was three minutes and forty seconds, gunfire in the Southwest, OK." So I supplied that and they gave me what they had, so I think about 3,000. … It's a guesstimate. I don't really know. I don't think anybody really knows.
The government said nobody was shot at Tiananmen Square, nobody died at Tiananmen Square. So then later they said 1,000, but they were mostly soldiers. Well, if they were saying that many soldiers died, then I don't think it's at all beyond the realms of imagination to say that 3,000 civilians died.



Funny how most people still living in China involved in the protest say that it was wrong. Gee maybe because they don't want to get into more trouble than they already have? One of the student leaders denying anyone died in the square on state TV? Unequivocal evidence that no one was shot in the square! But let's ignore all those "foreign" press journalist that say otherwise. They are from the "West" so they are not to be trusted.

ilikerei

Tomas_V wrote: »

The Chinese are complaining that nobody listens to their message. I think the reason for this is that they are naive in matters of media and image. First, the choice of venue and second by not taking the trouble to contact the TV and radio stations and inviting them to come to their demonstration.

If their complaint is that the media ignores them, why not protest outside RTE?

In fact, the organizers did invit RTE and some other TV and radios stations.
But RTE said they have no interest in support Olympic demonstration.
I have to believe that they only care "some things" about China with this answer.

MasterSun

micmclo wrote: »

It's a relevant point, getting 1200 people to a rally is impressive. But I realy doubt the Chinese population in Ireland is so low as around 11,000 even if that figure is two years old

i think the numbers of non -EU nationals in Ireland is decreasing in the recent yrs.
3 factors
1. the Irish gov had put on tougher rules to stop people coming from Non-EU countries.
2. The fading of the economy, high unemployment
3. booming eco in the east meant fewer eco migrants to Ireland.

ilikerei

micmclo wrote: »

And many on student visa's but working full-time which they are not supposed to do.
And many attending English language schools that exist only on paper.

It's been posted here by MasterSun that the 2006 Census shows 11,000 thousand Chinese people here. Could be far higher, nobody knows.

It's a relevant point, getting 1200 people to a rally is impressive. But I realy doubt the Chinese population in Ireland is so low as around 11,000 even if that figure is two years old

Not only Chinese, isn't it? There are also a lot of people who come from other Countries did the samething as Chinese.

Do you know in last 2 years, the goverment changed the law a lot and as a result, many Chinese left Ireland forever. So that number is not to far away from the real one.

Tomas_V

MasterSun wrote: »

most Tibetans can speak Chinese and a few can speak English.

Would these Tibetans be of Han or Tibetan ethnicity?

MasterSun

joetal wrote: »

To say no one died inside the square as opposed to outside the square, how exactly does that make a difference?

the point i was making was that u guys were brainwashed by western media.
i bet u didn't know the Chinese gov admitted that less than 700 people were killed.

joetal wrote: »

Funny how most people still living in China involved in the protest say that it was wrong. Gee maybe because they don't want to get into more trouble than they already have? One of the student leaders denying anyone died in the square on state TV? Unequivocal evidence that no one was shot in the square! But let's ignore all those "foreign" press journalist that say otherwise. They are from the "West" so they are not to be trusted.

on state tv???
plz check my previous posts on this thread, read it carefully.
plus
if the video was made by Chinese Gov, it would have CCTV written on top of the left conner. like this one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MiVunJBIGoM

CCTV stands for China Central Television.