Public INvestigations

iamhunted

Whats the general vibe round here on public investigations? Personally, I cant see the point in them.

If its thrill seeking, adventure tourism people want then event organisers should set up public ghost hunts for entertainment purposes only imo. Keep it seperate from people who want to find out more information on the paranormal rather than pay to 'scare' themselves.

6th

Publin Investigations are more often than not more valuable than private ones, imo. How longg has groups gone off in search of proof of the paranormal? No real proof has been found yet. I have been involved in a dozen public investigations and the value of them is that you give people the opportunity to experience it for themselves. Most evidence in the area is subjective so it stand to reason that the more people who have experiences the better. I've seen people go from a "triller seeker" to someone with a genuine interest all because of a public investigation ... now try tell me they arent worth doing.

Keeping things private only serves to fuel elitism for the most part. Dont get me wrong, I love a private investigation but I wouldnt be working with the people I am today if it wasnt for the openess of the Irish Paranormal Community.

iamhunted

I htink you;re picking me up wrong here now to be honest.

The first thing is no-one is saying to keep anything private or to be elitist. Most groups (including ourselves) freely share any 'findings' as thats the whole point. Secondly, isnt the point of 'research' to go off and try and find evidence of the paranormal? Isnt that why we're all in this? Its obvious no definitive proof has been found, but agin, no-one is saying there has been. the quest for the information is the main point isnt it?

What are people on public investigations experiencing for themselves? Paranormal activity or the mere fact of being in a supposed haunted place that they have paid money to be in?

Really what Im trying to say is dont you think people who have an interest will find their way into the paranormal field regardless whereas public investigations just encourage a Most Haunted generation. The organisers make a few quid and the participants get a little thrill ride ..... but theres very little actual study of the investigation going on.

iamhunted

6th wrote: »

but I wouldnt be working with the people I am today if it wasnt for the openess of the Irish Paranormal Community.

yes, i think you;ve completely mis-understood my initial post

6th

What has been achieved by private investigations that hasnt been by public?

Plenty of people on Investigations have experienced what they believe to be paranormal activity, how is that any less valid than something experienced by someone who is part of a group?

Everyone gets there interest in any area in different ways. Whether its ready an article, watching most haunted, watching ghostbusters, having a paranormal experience themselves or being told about one by someone else.

I understand that you have a big problem with MH but no one can deny how much of a push it gave the whole area and how much it highlighted the cause. People are more vocal about there experiences now thanks to these programmes and while they may be sh1te have predjustice against the viewers of such shows is pure snobbery.

6th

Well if you think I dont get the point of your post then try make it clearer? Its seems you are saying there is no point in doing public investigations - I have pointed out how I think they are a vital part of the whole area.

I dont think there is any harm with it at all. Especially for the community that for some reason can be a little tense at times.

iamhunted

chillax there six. you implied I thought things should be private and elitist and you outlined how you wouldnt be as involved in the paranormal community if it wasnt so sharing. I was just pointing out to you that my post never made any such statements. Theres a difference in not understanding something and introducing a straw man to the debate.

I dont believe the main point of public investigations is to share the paranormal experience, or indeed study the paranormal - its mainly a way of raising finance is it not? thats my issue with it. Certainly not 'vital' - ie if there were no public investigations paranormal research would still continue regardless.

iamhunted

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont think there is any harm with it at all. Especially for the community that for some reason can be a little tense at times.

I do agree. Sometimes though I think too many people rely solely on public investigations.

6th

I never implied anything about you but I can understand how you took it personally as it was a reply to your post. I was talking in general. No harm, no foul.

Public investigations area way in for alot of people. I've done more private than public but see how bringing in fresh minds and new idea can keep things going forward.

6th

iamhunted wrote: »

I dont believe the main point of public investigations is to share the paranormal experience, or indeed study the paranormal - its mainly a way of raising finance is it not? thats my issue with it.

I've had about 30 different people on public investigations and I think through Boards.ie more public investigations have been done in Ireland than by any other group.

As for being for profit? I have only ever made a loss with public investigations, having stumped up for people who can make it at the last minute. That said the aim is never to make money, we split the costs for a location equally between everyone, the team and the "public".

iamhunted wrote: »

Certainly not 'vital' - ie if there were no public investigations paranormal research would still continue regardless.

Yes it will continue, with the same people, same ideas and the same equipment. Fresh blood can be an amazing thing. If you get 1 person out of 10 with a new way of looking at things then its a success.

Hey 6th , i actually wanted to ask , if you ever found certain people to be magnets to aactivity ? When i say that not necessarily sensitive .

6th

Definately, but I find when these people know they are then it gets dangerous. I've had people say stuff to me like "have me on an investigation and I guarantee stuff will happen, I'll make sh1t happen!" some of these people are dangerously stupid.

Some folk are like a running tap when it comes to their energy and things can happen around these people ..... Stoner is not one of these people

Actually Dre, I find most people who have activity around them alot are usually the cause of it rather than attracting "ghosts".

Stoner

Lovely a row,

I know that iamhunted has had at least one one bad experience with a kind of public investigation, I've been lucky enough not to, but it was part luck and part planned. That's why I don't mind them at all, its a good way to meet up with people, however there is usually some level of screening involved on the ones I've been at, so they were really semi private.
In-fact it was quite hard for me to get to go on my first one with, I was continuously blanked by 6th, even though I had let him in on one beforehand .
For that reason I would not count the boards investigations as "public" the last one I was involved in required a lot of e mail, with only about 40% new people, all of whom had some sort of character reference or history on boards.


I do think that just advertising an investigation and taking people along without any knowledge of what they are like would lead to the sort of situation described in the OP. i.e. a waste of time, unless you are making money out of it, where it becomes some form of entertainment and there is nothing wrong with that, but they should not IMO be considered an Investigation, maybe just a ghost Hunt.

And you know the difference between a Hunt and an Investigation right, Iaminvestigated ?

6th

I know! I KNOW!

Stoner

put your hand down 6th

iamhunted

Stoner wrote: »

For that reason I would not count the boards investigations as "public" ...

And you know the difference between a Hunt and an Investigation right, Iaminvestigated ?

i wouldnt count the boards investigations as public either - thats not the kind of 'public' investigations I mean. And I dont mean to be rude, but, have I had a 'bad' experience with a public investigation? Ive never been on or near one so I can't figure that one out. I have often refused to go on public investigations alright - but thats not a bad experience. quite liberating actually.

And no - Ive no idea the difference between a hunt and an investigation other than ghost hunters go ghost hunting and paranormal investigators go investigating.

like really, what the hell is a ghost hunt outside of organising a thrill seeking adventure for people who want to pay money to be 'scared'? isnt a public 'investigation' a ghost hunt - and if so then whys it called an investigation?

DANNY22XX

if an accident happens ,,,who is at fault the the person themselves or people who arranged the investigation,,,imo it could be very hard reveiwing evidence,,,i have read before were a team broke an item of funiture that was very expensive,,,when it came to light and reviewing the evidence it was 2 guest on the investigation who did the damage but the team still had to fork out the money,,,
me personally i wouldnt but if as you said 6th if it gets some new groups formed and can work together well thats the bonus,,
as stoner said a lot of emails and organising but for me i would rather just organise for my own group..but i have no probs in bringing someone that i know has some experience,,as before we have had the run and screamers they didnt stay to long ,,,because they were causing health and saftey issues,,,
just my 2 cents,,,

6th

A hunt is when you go to a location which has no reported activity - you go looking for it.

6th

Ok I see the difference between a boards event and an ad in the paper but I still see a Boards one as public.

iamhunted

6th wrote: »

A hunt is when you go to a location which has no reported activity - you go looking for it.

I'd find that a bit clinical. There mightnt be reported activity that you know of, but that doesnt mean theres never been reported activity .....

iamhunted

plus - I dunno ... ghost 'hunting' is all a tad ghostbusters. why not just document and share the info and call it research? I would view the term 'ghost hunting' more of a commercial handle - like hunting .. a bit of excitement, sport, something to do for fun.

6th

We can only go with what we know to be the case surely?

Ghostbusters!

Stoner

iamhunted wrote: »

I'd find that a bit clinical. There mightnt be reported activity that you know of, but that doesnt mean theres never been reported activity .....

Its just something I've read in a few place, not something I claim to be true.

i.e. a house looks scary so people go on a ghost hunt there with no reports of activity against someone reports seeing the devil in their house, so you go and investigate it.

It's really is just down to the knowledge you have before you go to a place, anyway it was Mr Troy Taylor who described the difference , not me.

Also iamhunted, did you not have some sort of openish investigation, where some people had to leave? or was that just Danny?

Stoner

Stoner wrote: »

i.e. a house looks scary so people go on a ghost hunt there with no reports of activity against someone reports seeing the devil in their house, so you go and investigate it.

Loftus Hall

iamhunted

Stoner wrote: »

Also iamhunted, did you not have some sort of openish investigation, where some people had to leave? or was that just Danny?

That was one of our own investigations where, how shall I put it, we were trying out some new people. I wasnt there, tbh, but the dan man ended up telling them to leave as their 'medium' abilities werent really what we were after. But as I say, that wasnt an open investigation of any kind - it was one of our own.

DANNY22XX

Stoner wrote: »

Also iamhunted, did you not have some sort of openish investigation, where some people had to leave? or was that just Danny?

it was me ,,i think health a saftey all the time but they thought of it as a scream fest,,first it sounded like they were being lifted across the room and the screams for help,didnt go down well with me,,,lol,,when i got to them it was the dishwasher on selfclean,,,selfrinse what ever,,,as i was on my way 2 others ran to see one them nearly fell down 2 flights of stairs,,,so i knocked them on the head asked them to leave and carried on the investigation with the original team,,so in my eyes never again,now if someone had of fallen who would be to blame the team or the owners or the drama queens that crapped them selves because of a dishwasher,,,so i can see were boards comes from but for me its a no no,,,.
the only tool you need from all this is a level head,,if you cant have that,,,forget it,,most people who investigate here i know would have a level head but it only takes one to cause an accident,,,

iamhunted

Stoner wrote: »

i.e. a house looks scary so people go on a ghost hunt there with no reports of activity against someone reports seeing the devil in their house, so you go and investigate it.

Im obviously just not cut out for this lark as thats another thing that urks me greatly - investigating somewhere primarily because it looks like its haunted.

Dont get me wrong - theres every good reason to do some training in some abandoned buildings etc, but unless you've uncovered some kind of paranormal history to somewhere, surely theres no real point in going 'hunting' just because it looks like the stereotypical Hollywood haunted house .... ? Isnt it wiser to investigate places that have some paranormal history? (and a lot of the time you have to go digging to find that 'paranormal' history).

I think what gets me about the whole open 'investigation' and ghost hunting in scary looking buildings is that a) what is the point behind it other than the scare factor and b) a lot of the time it seems the easy way out - rather than doing some research, asking locals, finding out a bit of the history of an area and its folklore (which often tells stories of local hauntings etc), people find it easy to pay into a castle somewhere as part of an open investigation, or go ghosthunting in a building that looks like it should be haunted. its trying to to do research without any of the work (and more times than not, with very, very little results in comparison to investigating places that at least have some sort of paranormal history). Its obviously not about finding information so it has to be for the entertainment value.

kshiel

I went on my first investigation through here and they would have not known me at the time other than what I would have put up on posts, which was a risk I suppose on both sides but if it wasn't for these types of investigations I wouldn't have met up with a lot of ye guys.

I can see jamhunted that these types of investigations do not suit you and I remember danny telling me about that night but you can't judge everyone on the same level as those individuals who clearly couldn't handle themselves or the situation they were in. I am sure on some public investigations there are horror stories of idots running riot but I am sure a lot of contacts have been made through these open investigations and a lot of people would not have had the opportunity regardless of how sciencetific it was to expereince these types of ventures.

On going on a ghost hunt well what the harm if thats what your into. Spirits will be open to you when you are ready to be open to them regardless of where you are... who knows what or where is really haunted maybe if more research was done in locations where its not so deemed to be active and compare to those places that are, maybe some interesting findings could come about and maybe it would be a big fat waste of time but we wouldn't know unless we tried it out.

Riamfada

I cant see why a ghostbuster style ghost hunt cant turn up great results. Its obviously a bit of fun and banter generates alot of energy. Like the last investigation I was on where I was nearly wetting myself laughing at a certain team members stomach noises when another team member was pushed. Anyone who takes people on an investigation without knowing them before or having a character reference deserves trouble tbh.

I still dont get the difference between an investigation and a ghost hunt in terms of how the night is structured.

Looking forward to another one though, I even have my CD with Ghostbusters Theme song ready for the drive there ! Id also like to think that'd id be the black lad, Winston !!

Riamfada

kshiel wrote: »

would be a big fat waste of time but we wouldn't know unless we tried it out.

Damn Straight! Thats what its all about. I mean I *could* investigate Charleville a tenth time or I could try and source new locations and perhaps get more evidence rather than the same stuff again in the same location. (im using the Royal "I" btw)

iamhunted

yes - exactly.

its just how you choose that new location - by how it looks (does it look scary) or because of information received (local talk that its haunted).

You can never judge a book by its cover and the most unlikely of places - not necessarily those that just look scary - can have reported paranormal activity.

So Public investigations ...

a good thing or a bad thing ?

iamhunted

I'd say not a great help thing.

Yes its a way for people to get involved in the paranormal but no its not a good way to do any actual research. the question I ask is why bother? To get more people into the field so they can freak out and scream at every mouse moving in the dark a la most hunted etc? I'd say a very very large percentage of people going on a public investigation are going for the wrong reasons which makes me wonder why have a public investigation in the first place.

If someone is interested in the paranormal they'll find a way to get involved. Public investigations are more a fund raising exercise imo - its more corporate event management than paranormal investigation.

iamhunted

(once more let me say I wouldnt count the Boards meets as public considering a lot is preorganised and worked out on here first).

Riamfada

Well public as so much as putting up posters and seeing who shows up on the day is seriously bad planning. Advertising an investigation on boards and taking people in my opinion would still be "public" (advertised on an open website, possibly the largest internet community in the country) but it does give the advantage of knowing a person somewhat before they come and knowing that they have a genuine interest by even posting on the forum and agreeing to spend a night with some weirdos off the internet (thats how I got involved in this)

Private investiagations such as one group (usually consisting of c.4-5 persons) is not at all cost effective. Wicklow Gaol costing 400 + 100 per hour after 2am is not possible unless you have a group of at least 10 or are willing to personally chip in 100+ to investigate a location.

McG

iamhunted

thats the other side of the coin - there shouldnt be any need to pay to investigate. its the same in music - some bands insist they only get gigs by paying for the venues, other bands happily play gigs without paying out money. Theres no way I'd pay to investigate anywhere unless it was pretty hard (and obviously worth it) to get into and we had the place to ourselves.

iamhunted

and i think the more groups that pay to get into places, the more harder it is to get places that wont charge since its such a money making racket.

Stoner

iamhunted wrote: »

Theres no way I'd pay to investigate anywhere unless it was pretty hard (and obviously worth it) to get into and we had the place to ourselves.

Each to his own I guess, it can be harder to get a place to your own if you don't pay, but i see where you are coming from, I have no issue in forking out a few bob on a hobby, same way as I pay to fish in certain lakes.

Riamfada

If someone emailed me saying "can I spend a night running around your house" I certainly would let them. But not for free !

I dont see how the paranormal community can take off or survive if it limits itself to free investigations. At the end of the say, as I have stated many times paranormal investigation is not a recognised arm of the scientific community and possibly never will be. The only way you will get to investigate high profile locations is with an institutional body behind you funding your research. Which again, is never going to happen. At the end of the day you are not doing the dweller any good by investigating their property, they are in all fairness doing you a favour by granting you access to their premises and will, rightfully, charge for providing the location.

Let me just compare this to something I am familiar with, the town of Loughshinny, Co.Dublin is situated close to a headland that looks out at Lambay Island. On this island there is strong evidence for a possible Roman settlement which if excavated would have stong implications for the Roman expansion into Ireland. This area is known as Drumanagh. Drumanagh is privately owned and cannot be excavated without the permission of the owner and I believe such excavations would be on national importance. Not the law, universities or govermental bodies can force this excavation (unless they want to build a road there ) . The owner of the land reserves the right to what happens on this land. Paranormal groups cant therefore go in and state that they have a right to investigate private property in the name of pseudo-science and any group which takes this line will have a very limited retinue of investigations under their belt.

McG

I dont mind paying either for a readely available place . Its good training. When it comes to getting results and so on, i used to think like that also but the more i thought about it, what results are you chasing ?

iamhunted

I dont think groups anywhere expect the right to be able to investigate where they want - its obviously up to the owners.

I have lived in a 'haunted' house and if someone at the time had offered to investigate, I wouldnt have asked them for money as I wanted answers.

Really - whats the story then? Are groups in this as a hobby to talk about/scare themselves with or are they actually interested in collecting information and sharing it in the hope that further down the road someone might make sense of it?

I can see how some places charge as they use the money for renovations but places like wicklow gaol charging that kind of money - thats just taking advantage of those who want to investigate there. theres plenty of old gaols and they all dont charge cash to investigate. I think thats where it all gets sidelined. the owners look at it as an easy way to make cash of 'ghosthunters' and the more looking to pay for the priviliage the more owners will think its the right thing to do. theres the seperation between doing it for the fun and doing it to collect information.

Avoid the places who charge (unless its for a good cause) as theres plently so apparently haunted locations to check out for free.

6th

Show me any places along the lines of CHarleville, Ross Castle, Wicklow Gaol etc that dont charge.

I've done alot of residential stuff and obvious you dont pay for that but other places are right to charge, sa long as its not crazy money (€200 a head) then I dont see the problem.

iamhunted

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont mind paying either for a readely available place . Its good training. When it comes to getting results and so on, i used to think like that also but the more i thought about it, what results are you chasing ?

the kind of results we end up with that we cant explain. If you arent finding any results then you have to ask what you are looking for in the first place. A typical one for leinsterparanormal would be at http://www.leinsterparanormal.com/Centre/ . if you can explain any of that to us, please do.

as i said - you wont get those kind of results at a public investigation as in all probability theres too many people present and too much noise pollution - plus you cant tie down where everyone was etc.

iamhunted

6th wrote: »

Show me any places along the lines of CHarleville, Ross Castle, Wicklow Gaol etc that dont charge.

I've done alot of residential stuff and obvious you dont pay for that but other places are right to charge, sa long as its not crazy money (€200 a head) then I dont see the problem.

show me the amazing results these places have that make them worth paying for. carlow gaol doesnt charge. we got into wicklow gaol for free. theres plaently of old buildings in ireland that dont charge - you just need to approach them right.

Riamfada

Many people dont want answers and many people dont believe in ghosts. These people often live in haunted locations that we may want to investigate. Therefore they are going to charge as it is their property and their right to charge to let people use it for their own ends, scientific or otherwise.

Also iamhaunted, I have noted on your website that you have done 2 investiagations. Is this because you refuse to pay for a location (which is grand) but it does limit the ammount you can do. I am sure there are places out there that will let you investigate for free however all I am stating is that its the owners right to charge and it always has been this way since Charleville began casing in on it. Money also garuntees a good investigation, if a location is going to charge then they have a right to provide what is expected of them

iamhunted

iamhunted wrote: »

the kind of results we end up with that we cant explain. QUOTE]

Ahh you see thats not results for me. Its phenomena but if we cant explain it, its not a result.

DANNY22XX

Grimes wrote: »

Also iamhaunted, I have noted on your website that you have done 2 investiagations. Is this because you refuse to pay for a location (which is grand) but it does limit the ammount you can do. I am sure there are places out there that will let you investigate for free

no we have done a lot more than 2 ,,lol but when you are doing private dwelling we have found that there are a lot of people that dont want us to post,,,but most of the time we never got anything as the problems were explainable,

iamhunted

Grimes wrote: »

Many people dont want answers and many people dont believe in ghosts. These people often live in haunted locations that we may want to investigate. Therefore they are going to charge as it is their property and their right to charge to let people use it for their own ends, scientific or otherwise.

by all means - if they dont believe in ghosts though, what are they charging you for? still, its their right to do so - no-ones questioning that.

Also iamhaunted, I have noted on your website that you have done 2 investiagations. Is this because you refuse to pay for a location (which is grand) but it does limit the ammount you can do. I am sure there are places out there that will let you investigate for free however all I am stating is that its the owners right to charge and it always has been this way since Charleville began casing in on it. Money also garuntees a good investigation, if a location is going to charge then they have a right to provide what is expected of them

no - its because we only have two investigations on our website. Theres no mention of many of my own experiences on there or of other team members or of a few ot the other investigations we have done (wicklow gaol, bestfield lock, private residence in Meath etc ). We may take our time organising investigations but thats because we dont just decide to fork out money and go somewhere reputedly haunted. we search and find places.

thing is though, we have got results that have intrigued us - thats what we're interested in.

iamhunted

Deleted User wrote: »

iamhunted wrote: »

the kind of results we end up with that we cant explain. QUOTE]

Ahh you see thats not results for me. Its phenomena but if we cant explain it, its not a result.

ehh - youve lost me here. if you can explain it then its explainable and not paranormal.

if you cant explain it then what is it? since we're looking for the unexplainable (unexplainable at present that is) then I would take that to be a result.

Ergo if you find something you cant logically explain on a paranormal investigation, then that is a result.

I know what your saying about the charging. I dont mind places charging as long as its not huge prices. But in saying that, it leads to places that claim to be haunted and using it for advertisment .