Time to ban LHD??

ninty9er

I seem to remember an episode of Top Gear where the test drive was in Singapore. The law there is quite drachonian across the board, but the one of interest is that it is illegal to drive a LHD car on a public road for some reason or other (presumably safety).

Is it time to consider going down the same route here?? Overtaking in particular is taking your life (and others') in your hands (more than usual) and it's difficult when making right turns etc...Are there any statistics available to show if there are more collisions proportionally involving LHD cars?

Cionád

What about all the tourists? What if Europe went the same(opposite) way? No more drive holidays to the south of France?

Silly idea, and I'll vote Fine Gael from now on.

ninty9er

Cionád wrote: »

What about all the tourists? What if Europe went the same(opposite) way? No more drive holidays to the south of France?

Rentals;)

Tipsy Mac

Would be far better to check vehicles for insurance and general inspection on its condition, most of the LHD cars involved in collisions in this country are uninsured deathtraps that the price of the journey from their home country was more than the car is worth and it's simply brought over to avoid insurance and road taxation in Ireland.

kdevitt

Works very well in Australia. Should be done asap.

Anan1

kdevitt wrote: »

Works very well in Australia. Should be done asap.

What exactly do you mean when you say that it works very well in Australia?

gogs2006

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Would be far better to check vehicles for insurance and general inspection on its condition, most of the LHD cars involved in collisions in this country are uninsured deathtraps that the price of the journey from their home country was more than the car is worth and it's simply brought over to avoid insurance and road taxation in Ireland.

Exactly...
There's a strong possibility that some of these vehicles were stolen in their native countries

Wishbone Ash

ninty9er wrote: »

Is it time to consider going down the same route here?

Well considering that LHD taxis are pwerfectly legal now, I somehow doubt it will happen.

Bear in mind also that some more obscure vehicle types are not available in RHD.

Pherekydes

ninty9er wrote: »

Rentals;)

Why not just pay attention to what you're doing? Even if you rent, you'll still be driving on the "wrong" side. Personally, I find it much better to be driving a car I'm familiar with in situations I'm not familiar with, than driving a car I'm not familiar with in situations I'm not familiar with.

unkel

Slow coach wrote: »

Why not just pay attention to what you're doing?

+1 for the voice of reason

Stop all this nonsense about banning, OP.

If you are incompetent to drive your own car in a different side drive system or indeed if you are incompetent to drive a rental car in a different side drive system, get a bloody taxi!

If you are competent, drive whereever you like with whatever car you fancy!

Hagar

How would this ban affect international road haulage?
Ireland gets a lot of imports delivered by truck from continental Europe.
How would our haulage industry fare out if continental Europe banned RHD?

Not a great idea IMHO.

randomer

According to a report from the university of Auckland, there may be a link between car color and serious injuries as a result of car accidents.

Apparently drivers of brown cars have the highest risk of sustaining serious injuries caused by motor accidents.

Why don't we ban brown cars, and people called Agnes, and people born on a Wednesday...

Cmar-Ireland

-1 for that idea OP

Wishbone Ash

Hagar wrote: »

How would this ban affect international road haulage?
Ireland gets a lot of imports delivered by truck from continental Europe.
How would our haulage industry fare out if continental Europe banned RHD?

Not a great idea IMHO.

Yes, and many Irish and British hauliers order LHD trucks if they are doing a lot of trans-continental work. If LHD vehicles were banned how would they get home? :eek:

As an interesting aside, Aircoach have to order all their buses with a centre off side door as their stop in Dublin airport is on the right hand side.

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

Why don't we all just go LHD? Didn't some minister recommend this? make it easier on all of the foreigners

peasant

I think we should go for the center ground and only allow cars that have the steering wheel in the middle :D:D





(so ..it's either a tractor or a McLaren)

Wishbone Ash

peasant wrote: »

(so ..it's either a tractor or a McLaren)

Or one of these in which the controls can be transferred to either side in a few seconds!



Many larger tractors could be described as LHD as the gears and main controls are always on the right side and entry/exit is usually on the left.

peasant - presumably many Irish motorhomes are LHD?

peasant

my guess would be that 60 - 70 % of Irish reg motorhomes are LHD

Wishbone Ash

Mobile cranes are nearly always LHD also.

In countries where they drive on the right, presumably street sweepers are RHD (as they are always LHD here).

rahim

kdevitt wrote: »

Works very well in Australia. Should be done asap.

Probably works well in Australia because it's impractical for anyone to bring their car there for whatever reason. Closest country with different drive system is the Philippines (Pretty far away).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_on_the_left_or_right

As has been shown already, it would have far too many negative affects to be practical as a law for this country.

Wishbone Ash

rahim wrote: »

Probably works well in Australia because it's impractical for anyone to bring their car there for whatever reason. Closest country with different drive system is the Philippines (Pretty far away)

Also, many of Australia's neighbours are 3rd world countries and therefore it not ideal sourcing ground for motor vehicles.

rahim wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_on_the_left_or_right

Don't relp too much on Wiki rahim - several errors in that link!

rahim

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Also, many of Australia's neighbours are 3rd world countries and therefore it not ideal sourcing ground for motor vehicles.

Very true.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Don't relp too much on Wiki rahim - several errors in that link!

Hahaha, I figured it would be able to get the map right tho, maybe not. Wiki is one of the worst sorces!

Seth Brundle

LHD, RHD? I have never seen a car cause damage. It is the person behing the wheel that tends to do that!

WHITE_P

I think the point the op is trying to make is that we should not allow foreign nationals coming here to work, to bring in LHD cars for long term use here.

Given that many of these cars are driven here with no or dubious insurance and are not subject to NCT, and road Tax here, I think he has a point.

Tourists and hauliers bringing LHD vehicles into the country for holiday's / business for short term and owners of classic / specialist cars that were not produced in RHD form would have to be given exemptions.

Also if the foreigners coming here to work couldn't bring their own cars, that would provide a ready made market for all the older cars that no one here wants, and as these are Irish cars they would be subject to proper insurance / Tax / NCT, certification.

In addition it would put a stop to all those old high end (BMW, Merc, Audi) LHD cars that the gardai confiscate clogging up garda station yards and costing us the Tax payer money to dispose of.

peasant

WHITE_P wrote: »

I think the point the op is trying to make is that we should not allow foreign nationals coming here to work, to bring in LHD cars for long term use here.

Given that many of these cars are driven here with no or dubious insurance and are not subject to NCT, and road Tax here, I think he has a point.

Tourists and hauliers bringing LHD vehicles into the country for holiday's / business for short term and owners of classic / specialist cars that were not produced in RHD form would have to be given exemptions.

Also if the foreigners coming here to work couldn't bring their own cars, that would provide a ready made market for all the older cars that no one here wants, and as these are Irish cars they would be subject to proper insurance / Tax / NCT, certification.

In addition it would put a stop to all those old high end (BMW, Merc, Audi) LHD cars that the gardai confiscate clogging up garda station yards and costing us the Tax payer money to dispose of.

several issues with that:

1) Freedom of movement (of goods) within the EU.
EU citizens have every right to bring their car along ...anywhere in the EU. So your proposal would be in breach of EU law

2) enforcement of insurance laws
There is an EU wide insurance scheme that shows proof of insurance in several languages, the so called "green" insurance card. This has been in existance for decades ...it is just that Irish law enforcment couldn't be bothered to check for it and enforce it. Foreign reg cars are just not checked, but waved through

3) NCT
to my knowledge all EU countries have a car check similar to the NCT ...all it needs is enforcement and control of the documents.


I remember, my first time on holidays in Ireland (in my LHD German reg car), coming up to a checkpoint.

I had my drivers licence, my copy of the vehicle reg cert, my green insurance card and my copy of the NCT and emissions test at the ready and the window open.

The garda at the checkpoint was seemingly bored and he came over for a chat ...you know, the usual ..where you from, do you like Ireland, first time on holiday and all that ...and when I shoved my bundle of paperwork under his nose he said ..."sure, I wouldn't know what they all are, go on so, have a nice holiday"

That was 17 years ago ...but it would still happen like this today

But you just like to blame "the foreigners"

WHITE_P

peasant wrote: »

several issues with that:

1) Freedom of movement (of goods) within the EU.
EU citizens have every right to bring their car along ...anywhere in the EU. So your proposal would be in breach of EU law

2) enforcement of insurance laws
There is an EU wide insurance scheme that shows proof of insurance in several languages, the so called "green" insurance card. This has been in existance for decades ...it is just that Irish law enforcment couldn't be bothered to check for it and enforce it. Foreign reg cars are just not checked, but waved through

3) NCT
to my knowledge all EU countries have a car check similar to the NCT ...all it needs is enforcement and control of the documents.


I remember, my first time on holidays in Ireland (in my LHD German reg car), coming up to a checkpoint.

I had my drivers licence, my copy of the vehicle reg cert, my green insurance card and my copy of the NCT and emissions test at the ready and the window open.

The garda at the checkpoint was seemingly bored and he came over for a chat ...you know, the usual ..where you from, do you like Ireland, first time on holiday and all that ...and when I shoved my bundle of paperwork under his nose he said ..."sure, I wouldn't know what they all are, go on so, have a nice holiday"

That was 17 years ago ...but it would still happen like this today

But you just like to blame "the foreigners"

Fair enough, so the legal issue's with uninsured etc. LHD cars, comes back to the usual issue of the Irish authorities just being too lazy to enforce the law properly.

peasant

WHITE_P wrote: »

Fair enough, so the legal issue's with uninsured etc. LHD cars, comes back to the usual issue of the Irish authorities just being too lazy to enforce the law properly.

Exactly !

That, and the nerve of some people to exploit this lack of enforcement as much as they can.

Nothing to do with which side the steering wheel is on.

--amadeus--

Rants like these veer very close to racism by the back door. But not to worry, with the economy tanking all of our recently relocated neighbors will be moving on soon so we'll be back where we started. We might not be able to afford new cars, be in negative equity and have rampant unemployment but by god all them foreigners in them lousy LHD cars will be gone :rolleyes:

And (as has been said) lots of niche cars / motorhomes / classics and transport vehicles are only available in LHD. Poorly thought out argument.

Wertz

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Mobile cranes are nearly always LHD also.

In countries where they drive on the right, presumably street sweepers are RHD (as they are always LHD here).

Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure most street sweepers I've seen lately have dual steering wheels so the driver can do both sides of the kerbs in either direction...

ninty9er

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Rants like these veer very close to racism by the back door. But not to worry, with the economy tanking all of our recently relocated neighbors will be moving on soon so we'll be back where we started. We might not be able to afford new cars, be in negative equity and have rampant unemployment but by god all them foreigners in them lousy LHD cars will be gone :rolleyes:

And (as has been said) lots of niche cars / motorhomes / classics and transport vehicles are only available in LHD. Poorly thought out argument.

A lot of niche cars aren't legal in Singapore for that reason. I take the EU argument, but the visibility argument is a real one that needs to be at least looked into before something like this could be dismissed.

It would be untrue to say that someone driving on the left in LHD (be they Irish or Foreign....that's NOT the point I was making WHITE P) has the same view ahead as the driver in a RHD on the same road. A lot of trucks that are LHD have a blindspot which causes trouble at traffic lights etc...and a relative was a victim of that and ended up with a broken arm, serious amounts of bruising and €7,500 worth of damage to their (ordinary €25k) car. The truck driver was oblivious to her presence and dragged her the whole way across a crossroads.

peasant

ninty9er wrote: »

A lot of niche cars aren't legal in Singapore for that reason.

It is also illegal to chew chewing gum in Singapore ...will that be next?



As for blindspots ...the very same blindspots exist for RHD vehicles going round difficult bends even on RHD roads. It's a matter of paying proper attention / vehicle positioning if you can see properly or not.

On that note:
It would make much more sense to allow commercial vehicles (especially car derived vans !) to have rear windows instead of the mandatory blank.

I bet that would prevent a lot more accidents from happening on these roads than a LHD vehicle ban.

So ..off you go to your next party meeting and suggest that ..good man!

blastman

Also, in Singapore, you can't vote to change the government if you don't like what they're doing. Maybe that's why the OP is such a fan of their model?

andreas_220D

peasant wrote: »

I bet that would prevent a lot more accidents from happening on these roads than a LHD vehicle ban.

It would most likely also prevent a lot of accidents if the irish driving license issue would be sorted. That is - imo - the real problem on irish roads.

RobAMerc

andreas_220D wrote: »

It would most likely also prevent a lot of accidents if the irish driving license issue would be sorted. That is - imo - the real problem on irish roads.

Now your just talking sense - and sure that would never do, its not popular nor revenue generating so we'll shelve that one thanks.

The argument against LHD cars is ill informed, stupid and play's on the inherently racist population to gather support rather than any sound reasoning.

Wertz

I'd love to know what's racist about pointing out the obvious added danger for single occupant vehicles where the steering wheel is on the "wrong" side, thus cutting visibility both in cornering and during overtaking manoveurs.

G Luxel

In Japan, many new European cars are sold LHD including jaguars, landrovers and aston martins.


and arent alot of our municipal road sweepers LHD?
as well as the golf buggy on any Irish golf course?:D

RobAMerc

Wertz wrote: »

I'd love to know what's racist about pointing out the obvious added danger for single occupant vehicles where the steering wheel is on the "wrong" side, thus cutting visibility both in cornering and during overtaking manoveurs.

the original idea was conceived as a publicity stunt by FG if i remember correctly - that was, as I said designed to play to a racist crowd who blame everything on foreigners, so why not the road deaths ?

m2p2008

lhd drave is on must big sports cars anyway

Marcus.Aurelius

I reckon the comments on the driver's responsibilites are spot on. Though I would also imagine that LHD reduces overtaking visibility a lot, unless you drop back a lot to take a peek. But that also increases your overtaking manoveur time and distance. Its a tough one, TBH.

Wertz

RobAMerc wrote: »

the original idea was conceived as a publicity stunt by FG if i remember correctly - that was, as I said designed to play to a racist crowd who blame everything on foreigners, so why not the road deaths ?

Ah right you're talking about that lunatic's suggestion about us all switching to driving on the righthand side of the road.
If NIN drivers are responsible for more road deaths per capita, I'd have to say that was probably more down to their apparent lax attitude to drinking and driving, perhaps coupled with the type of car, or it's state of repair, than it is solely to their car being LHD...

Del2005

Most people who drive LHD cars here are aware of the limitations they have and drive responsibly. The people who drive like lunatics in LHD drive cars would be the same in RHD cars, but that's OK as the can see to over take:rolleyes:

blackbox

Del2005 wrote: »

Most people who drive LHD cars here are aware of the limitations they have and drive responsibly. The people who drive like lunatics in LHD drive cars would be the same in RHD cars, but that's OK as the can see to over take:rolleyes:

+1

Haven't some of us taken our RHD cars abroad at some time?

Did we drive like suicidal loonies or were we aware that we had to drive within our limitiations?

APM

i dont think anybody has mentioned all the LHD cars coming over and blinding us oncoming drivers with their lights. They are directed towards the wrong side......the very least they should do when bringing the cars over is change this.

andreas_220D

APM wrote: »

i dont think anybody has mentioned all the LHD cars coming over and blinding us oncoming drivers with their lights. They are directed towards the wrong side......the very least they should do when bringing the cars over is change this.

How often do you see a LHD car? I wouldn't bother about occasionally being blinded by the lights of a LHD car . :rolleyes:

It's all the RHD cars (sic!) with fog lights always switched on which blind me permanently.

peasant

APM wrote: »

i dont think anybody has mentioned all the LHD cars coming over and blinding us oncoming drivers with their lights. They are directed towards the wrong side......the very least they should do when bringing the cars over is change this.

I agree ...I've changed mine (if only so that I can see better)

Strangely enough, not a NCT requirement though ...would have passed with the wrong ones, once properly aligned (for LHD).

ninty9er

peasant wrote: »

On that note:
It would make much more sense to allow commercial vehicles (especially car derived vans !) to have rear windows instead of the mandatory blank.

I bet that would prevent a lot more accidents from happening on these roads than a LHD vehicle ban.

So ..off you go to your next party meeting and suggest that ..good man!

I don't believe there is a requirement for blnaks, just that there be no seats or seatbelt mounts. AFAIK the Santa Fe commercial has rear windows(albeit that they are disconnected from the loom.)

I understand that it would be difficult given the European Hauliage traffic we get, but there is no reason (besides the damned logistics) why a cab share system could not be put in place so trailers be put on a RHD cab when it enters the country.

I know the camper van issue arises and I can't see a resolution to that.

Short of Donie Cassidy's idea :rolleyes::rolleyes: which renders 99% of the national fleet obsolete, what other suggestions would people have on the issue.

Peasant I know you're a camper enthusiast, and wouldn't want to go punishing people for having LHD, but if it contributes to safer roads and the benefits outweigh the costs, then it should be done.

Perhaps a compromise would be that no LHD vehicle could be registered in the state??

On the municipal cleaners; the tiny ones have centre steering and the big trucks IIRC have 2 steering wheels.

peasant

ninty9er wrote: »

Perhaps a compromise would be that no LHD vehicle could be registered in the state??

Nope ...because the first EU citizen denied the right to register their LHD car in Ireland to take it to the EU courts would have that law struck out.

Get real.

ninty9er

peasant wrote: »

Nope ...because the first EU citizen denied the right to register their LHD car in Ireland to take it to the EU courts would have that law struck out.

Get real.

No need to get narky. This is a discussion not a "do what you're told class".

Fair point though. I still think it warrants serious thought until it can be completely discounted.

congo_90

unkel wrote: »

+1 for the voice of reason

Stop all this nonsense about banning, OP.

If you are incompetent to drive your own car in a different side drive system or indeed if you are incompetent to drive a rental car in a different side drive system, get a bloody taxi!

If you are competent, drive whereever you like with whatever car you fancy!

+1 for details!

i had similar views but you've posted ahead of me

peasant

I still think it warrants serious thought

That's where I and some others here disagree wholeheartedly.

There is no issue.

Yes, in certain situations you can see less in a LHD car than in a RHD one when driving on the left. So the driver makes adjustments/ allowances ...no issue.

In other situations you can actually see more/judge the situation better in a LHD and you take advantage of that ...still no issue.

Have you ever driven a LHD in Ireland? Or a RHD on the continent for that matter?

ninty9er

peasant wrote: »

Have you ever driven a LHD in Ireland? Or a RHD on the continent for that matter?

I haven't tbh, but it wouldn't be top of my list of things to do before I die either. Steering wheels are on different sides for a reason!

edit: otherwise car manufacturers wouldn't bother making them.