so i know its been done befor but.....

opentarget

hello to everyone out there, this is my first post on the forum but im sure it wont be my last, i hate to start of my posting with such a worn out topic but im really stuck in a rut between 2 cameras....
the Canon EOS 400D and the Nikon D40X, this will be my first purchase into the world of Dslrs so feel free to point me in another direction if you feel that i should look at another camera in roughly the same price range, my budget is 6-800 euro.
i know the topic is done to death but can anyone out there who has used both of these give me some advice? i have had a look at both in a shop and both feel nice in my hands...the nikon dose feel a bit sturdier than the cannon but not enough to sway my decision. so which would you use?

Regards,
Kev.

Thirdfox

D40 ftw - save the extra money for another lens 55-200mm VR comes to mind. Or a flashgun - SB-600.

If I didn't get the D40 I'd probably plump for the D60 instead of the x version.

I don't think there are many that have used both - it tends to be whatever one you chose in the beginning you stick with. Suffice it to say - any of these cameras will probably be fine for your use.

opentarget

thanks for the fast reply, so i take it you use a nikon...the main thing this camera will be used for is taking high resolution pthoto textures and hdri light probes for use in 3d modeling/lighting, and as a way into a new hobby one that will at least get me away from the computer for a few hours a day. its funny i my work is my hobby so when i finish my day of modeling in work i tend to boot up the computer at home and model for fun....i need something else creative to do that is not staring at a monitor or drawing on paper...photography seams to fit i think.

Beef

I'm also a Nikon user but I would say to get yourself into a camera shop and try and get a feel for the cameras you're considering buying. All of these cameras are excellent - it's just a matter of deciding which one is best for yourself.

Paulw

Apples and oranges.

Canon people will recommend Canon, and Nikon users will claim Canon is rubbish. :eek:

It's a case of whatever suits YOU.

Personally, I think Canon make great cameras and lenses. That would be my choice.

Both cameras will probably do a very similar job, for what you want.

Cabaal

Another vote for Canon, in fairness what Paulw is true

Thirdfox

Is 6 megapixels not enough? (Yep, I own a D40 )

Here's a link to a 6 megapixel image - is this detailed enough?
http://pix.ie/thirdfox/460769/size/0
http://pix.ie/thirdfox/464151/size/0 - this one was manually focused and exposed on my cheap, 30 year old lens.
*warning* large download.

Here's my pride and joy (I've entered it into a few comps - fingers crossed!)
http://pix.ie/thirdfox/452257/size/0

5uspect

Bear in mind with an SLR you buy into a family of lenses and as a result the body is not as important as you may think. The 400D and D40x are both very good cameras but you should consider what lenses are more suited to you. You could always pick up a second hand body such as a 350D or a D70 which are still both excellent cameras for example.

Heck you could even pick up a good deal on a D200 or 30D.

Lens wise I would reccommend you get the 50mm f1.8 (Nikkor or Canon) and a good solid zoom in the range of the kit lens (around 17 to 80 mm). Have a read around sites like Fred Miranda for lens reviews and look at the Super Sticky for places to buy cheaply. Also remember Sigma Tamron et al do lenses for most bodies.

countryjimbo

I would say Cannon, and I don't have either! The reason being is they are probably more popular (I'm not trying to start another cannon v's nikon war!). If you go to meets and want to borrow a lens, go looking for advise, or want to buy lens etc you'll find that there's more of the cannon stuff about.

You're really comparing two camera's that'll both take excellent shots, so I'd suggest you base your decision on a broader picture, maybe something as simple as a mate has a cannon/nikon and you could borrow a lens etc...

Borderfox

Canon 400d with kit lens is €530 from www.komplett.ie at the mo..

Cabaal

Borderfox wrote: »

Canon 400d with kit lens is €530 from www.komplett.ie at the mo..

saw that alright, its shocking that I saw it in a shop the other day for 800e

opentarget

@ ThirdFox...million pixels is good for what i need....6 is good 10 is better lol, the higher res the image the more room for editing in photoshop, most of the images i will snap will just be straight on shots of walls ground textures and so on not very fun photography but its what i need for my work.
if the price was significantly cheaper i might consider the d40 instead of the d40x.

so people are saying that go for what has the best choice of lense....so is it canon or nikon?

5uspect

opentarget wrote: »

so people are saying that go for what has the best choice of lense....so is it canon or nikon?

Canon

Seriously tho, both have a great range but you'll get more help here with Canon Lenses as there are a lot of Canon users.

melekalikimaka

anything over six is over kill in fairness

robinph

I was recently debating the same choice of cameras and I ended up going for the Canon one. Unfortunately I'm not entirely sure why I picked that over the Nikon so cannot be much help with that, but it was certainly useful having a Canon when I got a lend of a couple of other lenses to try out from other people here during a meet.

Valentia

I have used Canon all my life but I prefer the colour and tone from a Nikon digital. It would cost too much to change and I'm happy enough TBH.

As for mega pixels, that only matters if you are printing and then 6 is not enough for a decent A3+. I see a massive difference between my old 10D and my 5D when printing. Looking at stuff on a monitor is a waste of time when comparing pixels.

opentarget

wow 530! thats a nice price, i was trying the cameras out in pixel on henry street and it was goung for over 100euro extra!

opentarget

ok so I just found on dabs the Nikon D60 SLR Camera Kit 18-55mm Lens kit which is going for €597.90 ....and the Cannon d400 for 530.00. this just gets more confusing as I go. life is though sometimes . so the d60 is a superior camera to the D40x am I right?

Thirdfox

Yes (the 18-55 is the VR version right? Older kits like the D40/D40x had the older non-VR one, I don't know if Canon's 400d comes with the VR lens or not).

D60 is seen as an incremental improvement over the D40x (which itself was an incremental improvement over the D40). But the D60 is a definitely a "better"* camera than the D40 for example.

*depending on your needs of course

melekalikimaka

its supirior by 20

but really, yes its a better camera

tywy

Is it that the D40, D40x and D60 don't have an inbuilt auto focus motor, does that have to be in the lense or something which means you can't use certain lenses?

I'm new to the whole SLR thing aswell and I'm currently trying to decide between the D40x and the 400D.

This is what I've figured from my research,

- the 400D has the sensor cleaning which the D40x doesn't
- the 400D has an in body motor which the D40x doesn't
- the D40x comes with a nicer kit lens than the 400D (according to the salesguy in Pixels)

I'm currently leaning toward the 400D... I don't know if I'd be able to tell the difference in quality between the lenses and by the time I'll be able I'll be getting a new lense anyway :P

opentarget

superior by 20!!?? thats exactly what i needed to know to make my decision lol well i figured it was a better camera just wanted to be sure. im not quite sure what VR is?
so for me its now up between the NikonD60 and the CannonD400.....so i have tried to compare on www.dpreview.com but they really look VERY similar, so i suppose the decision should be made by what product will give me access to more/better equipment and lenses. any thoughts?

nilhg

opentarget wrote: »

superior by 20!!?? thats exactly what i needed to know to make my decision lol well i figured it was a better camera just wanted to be sure. im not quite sure what VR is?
so for me its now up between the NikonD60 and the CannonD400.....so i have tried to compare on www.dpreview.com but they really look VERY similar, so i suppose the decision should be made by what product will give me access to more/better equipment and lenses. any thoughts?

Toss a coin, buy which ever camera wins, go take some pictures.:)

The reality is that, at the enthusiast level, unless you have existing lenses, or very specific requirements, there is almost nothing between Canon/Nikon/Olympus/Sony/Pentax and Samsung.

DSLR's have never been better value, no matter which you buy you will have a good camera.

opentarget

nilhg wrote: »

Toss a coin, buy which ever camera wins, go take some pictures.:)

thats the answer i was dreading....and expecting lol. ahh well i had planed to purchas online today but i think a trip to town after work tommorow will be the clincher as i have another look/feel for the cameras. just one last question...what camera comes with a better lense streight out of the box...or is this another coin toss?

robinph

tywy wrote: »

- the 400D has an in body motor which the D40x doesn't

I think it could have been that which might have swung my desicion towards the 400D actually. Not that it actually makes any real difference now, but to avoid getting confused later on as to which which lense will work or not with the D40/x when the 400D would just work with all* Canon lenses.

* All that I'm ever likely to come across.

opentarget

so dpreview.com has this rather nice feature of being able to pull up the stats on multiple cameras and view them side by side....going through the stats on the EOS 400D and the Nikon D60
I saw that both looked very similar on paper....but the D60 has the ability to shoot an unlimited(obviously limited to the memory) amount of shots in continuous mode that is very useful for me as I like to capture movement for key frame reference with animation. and not to mention that it accepts Sd cards for storage...i have a ton of these yokes at home! the canon takes compact flash cards. is there any advantage to ether of these formats is one superior?

Thirdfox

I prefer SD as it means I have compatibility across all my equipment, gaming, mobile and camera.

Big expensive cameras will use CF though...

tywy

that's one thing that attracted me to Nikon too... that I already have SD cards and they're widely available and cheap.

melekalikimaka

no reall diff with cf and sd, both fast, both reliable, sd's have a bitbroader range of use, but thats irelevent. I'm a die hard nikon, i'd recommend nikon to anyone...but not the d40'd or d60's tbh, unless ya can sacrifice a few possible lens options...other than that they are amazing cameras. vr basically means your shots will be sharper as incompensates for hand movement on longer shutters

opentarget

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i'd recommend nikon to anyone...but not the d40'd or d60's tbh, unless ya can sacrifice a few possible lens options...other than that they are amazing cameras.

so what your basically saying is that the camera body of the d60 itself is very good but that it has restrictions on the lenses it can take? I hadn't heard of this before in anything I have been reading....do you recon that there is enough lenses options to keep me happy with this camera for the next few years? is there any lenses restrictions on the D400? I was leaning very heavily in the general direction of the D60...but if they are gona screw my on lenses choice im back to square 1!???

melekalikimaka

pretty much just the 50mm 1.8, is the only really relevent one, its a lovely lens but thats the onlyone you'll probably come by that has issues with the d60, it'll work just noit auto focus,which is liveable with but would be nice if auto

opentarget

ok...that's not so bad I guess, your saying that some lenses might not auto focus with the D60....just asking again to be sure....its only on 50mm 1.8 or will it happen on others? and why is this do you know?
the SD cards and the continus shooting are really drawing me to nikon but id hate to get a camera that will screw me in the long run.

melekalikimaka

any lens that doesnt have amotor built in basically,not many,mainly older ones. other than that its great, i just use my 50mm themost and it'd be draw back for me

Freddie59

Cabaal wrote: »

saw that alright, its shocking that I saw it in a shop the other day for 800e

Yep - three shops in Waterford and three different prices for the 400D: €899; €799; and €699. I bought the 450D from Komplett for €810 delivered. It's ridiculous.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=345550

opentarget

how can the shops justified such bloated prices!? I mean with online shopping so easy now you'd think that the shops should be trying to match the prices a little closer, I know that in a shop you get customer service and can use/hold the camera and test it before buying so paying more is ok with that in mind but seriously it shouldn't be that much more expensive?! dose anyone know of a shop in Dublin that has prices more close to the online stores? ohh and good to hear about the SD cards being a good format....its a lot more versitile that CF it would seam?

Thirdfox

As for short lowlight primes you'd have to go to Sigma for them right now (if you want autofocus)
They have the 30mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.4 which will autofocus.

I personally use an ancient (30 year old) lens that has to be manually exposed and focused - it's great fun (for me). Also if you are shooting in a controlled environment you will not need to adjust exposure or focus often (and it will be easier to work out what changes need to be made).

SD cards work in more things than CF. Most laptops have SD card readers (handy for transferring photos from camera to computer). My Wii, mobile and mp3 also use SD cards... CF seems to be limited to top-end cameras mostly.

opentarget

your right about the SD i can slot it straight into my workstation without the need to go rooting for usb. my wii as you said and not to mention slots nicely into my archos to look at photos on a very nice screen on the go. SD might make my decision for easier for me

Thirdfox

SD will also work in the D80 if you ever upgrade (though D300 and D3 both use CF). I can see that changing in the future too (unless SD itself is replaced by a new format).

opentarget

yes SD is a very good format and very versatile, and having SD in the camera i chose is goign to be a big plus for me. the 450D is now out and making my decision more complicated even though it is quite a lot more expensive than D60 and 400D and if im not mistaken it is an SD based camera?
i have been doing some reading up on all these entry level Dslrs and it seams that none of them are dust or water resistant...however it dosnt say exactly what water resistant is, dose this mean for instance with the D60 that if it stats to rain its time to pack up?

Thirdfox

Well, I was shooting the pro-Chinese demonstration yesterday and it was raining pretty much all the time. My D40 and sb600 didn't suffer an noticeable effects as a result of the rain.

I think as long as you don't act stupidly (drop it in a puddle) then a little bit of moisture won't kill the camera.

opentarget

thanks thirdfox...thats exactly what i wanted to hear. off to town for more camera holding today...im starting to get frustrated here

Thirdfox

Ha, the initial buying can take a long time - in the end you'll just have to go for it... No one here is trying to shill you and get you to buy any particular brands (in fact most of us all agree that budget cameras nowadays represent excellent value for money and you'll be pleased anyhow).

opentarget

yes and I have to say a very loud thank you to everyone who has posted opinions and help on here, its been very helpful indeed! im more or less completely decided on the D60, I think it dose what I want and SD is a nice push also. and I recon it represents excellent value for money...now if only the 450D wasn't sneaking into my mind every time I think of the D60!!! and just out of curiosity dose anyone know if the Canon courses that come with the Dslr range is any good? or is it a cleverly discussed sales pitch?

opentarget

ok so...basically I hate to bump my thread but I feel its not worth opening a new one to ask, has anyone got any info on the canon courses that you get with the purchase of a new slr? any use?
still debating the D60 and have decided that if its worth the extra cash ill shell out for the 450D...
the holding in the shops is not helping ether :P

AnimalRights

How much extra was the 450D compared top the D60?
I bought the 450D from Gunn's of Wexford st with the 18-55 IS kit lens for €820, thats the cheapest price in normal retail shops in Dublin (Body only is €740 if u tell them Conn's have the body for €749)
This didn't include that half a day training yolkybobs but maybe I just forgot to ask for it, there appeared to many conditions and regging for my liking anyways.
I am totally happy with the 450D and while it's not a massive jump up from the 400D there are plenty enough improvements to say I am glad I upgraded, esp the 3" lcd screen, discovering new tweaks all the time on it tbh as well/
I also bought the Fuji2gb SD mem card from Gunn's too for €25.

opentarget

i was looking to get it in gunns also...820 is a good price even compared to online. the D60 is 700 in most shops with 50 cash back, i wounder if the 450D is really worth nearly 200 quid more? did your 450D come with any memory in the box? can anyone confirm the superiority of the Nikon kit lenses compared with the kit lenses that is packed with the 450D?

AnimalRights

No, I had to pay €25 for the memory.

opentarget

well 25 quids not bad for 2gigs lo. hows the camera goign?
anyone know about the training offered?

Sysmod

AnimalRights wrote: »

I bought the 450D from Gunn's of Wexford st with the 18-55 IS kit lens for €820, thats the cheapest price in normal retail shops in Dublin

http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=ECE1515578
EOS450D DigitalSLR KIT incl18-55 IS lens

€707.85
€585.00 Excl. VAT

+11 delivery

Anybody bought from elara.ie before?

AnimalRights

It's not a retail shop though and tbh not impressed with their "before reduced" €1,030.29 price. :rolleyes:

robinph

opentarget wrote: »

anyone know about the training offered?

Not a clue as to if it's any good or not but I put my name down for the one in Galway, the only one that I'm actually going to be in the country for. Not heard anything back from them yet though confirming it or anything though.